Galway COVID-19, local news and discussion

CruelSummer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ok then, I'll repeat

Whats your plan to reopen society but prevent the spread so that its a reopening that lasts. Go ahead, I'm honestly curious if you have actually thought this through. Outline a strategy that will achieve widescale engagement from society, be effective in stopping the spread and not risk the over flowing of out hospitals.

Or are you just having a moan and don't have any better ideas. It's ok if you are, this situation is wearing on everyone

You’re right, silly me. I’m just ‘having a moan’ and have no idea. This thread has really taught me a lot today, thanks.

Btw I’ve listed my ideas on multiple other threads.

April
- lift the 5k
- allow people to meet outdoors in groups of 4
- recommence outdoor sports & training
- reopen as much retail as possible, even with limited numbers allowed in at a time
- allow coffee shops to have limited outdoor seating by day

I could go on but it’s Friday :-) perhaps another time.

amandstu

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

We have a backlog of missed diagnosis because we had rampant covid, because wards were full and others repurposed, healthcare understaffed because staff were sick. As a result we could not provide a safe environment to bring potentially seriously ill people into.

Are the hospitals and related services a lot safer at the moment?

Have hospital and medical staff all been vaccinated yet?

JCX BXC

The staunch support of extremely strict lockdown conditions is bizarre to me. Plenty of other countries across the world have managed little to no time in these extreme lockdowns, with a much larger amount of time in a hybrid of restrictions.

Why should the Irish people be told stay inside all the time, only venture 5k from your house and don't meet a single person outside your bubble, when the vast majority of places across the world don't have such uncompromisingly strict restrictions, and a significant amount of people who break them.

We're seeing such complacency now because of the lack of any real logic behind these restrictions. A blanket strict lockdown, without any regional variance, without any real sign of ending, and just being pushed out further and further with every press conference is not the correct way to convince people of adherence. Nor is trying to scare them, this has occured for over a year now and talking about mass graves, hospitals turning away patients and your neighbours dropping dead just won't hold the same weight as it did before, firstly because it hasn't actually happened and secondly because people no longer care as much.

I don't personally know anyone fully adhering to the guidelines anymore. Refusing to allow any social contact, no matter how minimal, for months on end is simply not plausible and many won't buy it for very long when it becomes obvious that people aren't dropping dead in the street.

A new, logical approach is needed, the current NPHET recommend and government accept system isn't working. If NPHET only make physical health based approaches, who is there to add in the considerations of mental health, the economy and general human liberties? There is nobody available to shout enough is enough and those in charge have been remarkably well shielded from the media in answering for the actual rationale (past 'deep concern' 'scary variants') for these restrictions.

The inconsistency has really sped up this process of complacancy and in general getting fed up of these restrictions. Take for example back in October, the day before Tony Holohan comes back Level 3 is considered sufficient for the upper end of restrictions, the day Tony comes back suddenly Level 5 is needed. To the public this shows that NPHET is not so much a team as the top official making the binding decision, it shows that the coordination between members of NPHET with eachother and with the government is minimal and it shows that our ultimate approach to any rise in cases is lockdown.

No activity is safe and from a strictly health point of view, it would be much safer if we all permanently locked down and continued out behaviours for the rest of our lives, incidence of infectious disease would collapse. However, this is like saying we should not drive because we may crash, should not walk down the street because a car may hit us, should not answer the door in case a knife wielding maniac tries to enter. Our plan should be living with Covid, not surviving with Covid.

CruelSummer

CruelSummer wrote: »

You’re right, silly me. I’m just ‘having a moan’ and have no idea. This thread has really taught me a lot today, thanks.

Btw I’ve listed my ideas on multiple other threads.

April
- lift the 5k
- allow people to meet outdoors in groups of 4
- recommence outdoor sports & training
- reopen as much retail as possible, even with limited numbers allowed in at a time
- allow coffee shops to have limited outdoor seating by day

I could go on but it’s Friday :-) perhaps another time.

Ok, thank you for engaging.

Now, looking at the numbers for the last 2 weeks where the levels have been basically static, considering the level of lockdown we are currently at and the existing rate of infection, if the country went with your suggestions do you think that the levels would increase, decrease or remain static.

My thoughts are they would increase as this is what has happened each time in countries all over the world.

I'm guessing you will choose decrease or remain static. If that's the case could you please outline why you believe that given there is so much evidence to the contrary.

JCX BXC

Does the fact that we're in the strongest set of restrictions currently and cases have plateaued, even risen, prove that this current approach is not fit for purpose?

JCX BXC

JCX BXC wrote: »

Does the fact that we're in the strongest set of restrictions currently and cases have plateaued, even risen, prove that this current approach is not fit for purpose?

Not strict enough? Or poor compliance?

Mrs OBumble

JCX BXC wrote: »

Does the fact that we're in the strongest set of restrictions currently and cases have plateaued, even risen, prove that this current approach is not fit for purpose?

Except we've weakened restrictions ( reopened schools), and that's when the plateau started.

_Whimsical_

JCX BXC wrote: »

The staunch support of extremely strict lockdown conditions is bizarre to me. Plenty of other countries across the world have managed little to no time in these extreme lockdowns, with a much larger amount of time in a hybrid of restrictions.

We have had more severe restrictions because we have very poor ICU provision per capita compared to other countries. Our hospital care provision almost collapsed under the weight of what happened this year.

We were hit and overrun at Christmas by the UK variant which is much more transmissable, more deadly, more likely to make younger people ill enough to require ICU care. Now it accounts for nearly 100% of our cases.
Now other countries across Europe are seeing it's effect as it infiltrates their societies and they are buckling under it too, and that's without them being smack in the middle of a wild free for all Christmas. They'll have no choice but to respond with restrictions too.

JCX BXC wrote: »

However, this is like saying we should not drive because we may crash, should not walk down the street because a car may hit us, should not answer the door in case a knife wielding maniac tries to enter. Our plan should be living with Covid, not surviving with Covid.

No.
This is like saying do not step in front of a bus that has been proven to have no breaks right after you have seen it hit a row of people and mow them down.
Do not answer the door to a person with a machete after you've watched them kill your neighbour.

This isn't an unknown variable. This is cause and effect. We know exactly what happens when we mix as normal. We have witnessed it. Pretending otherwise is just telling yourself fairy stories.

shenanagans

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Except we've weakened restrictions ( reopened schools), and that's when the plateau started.

Rag week was a bigger issue in Galway than schools reopening. IMO

Bobeagleburger

shenanagans wrote: »

Rag week was a bigger issue in Galway than schools reopening. IMO

Absolutely.

Schools are handling it brilliantly, as they did before.

JCX BXC

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

We have had more severe restrictions because we have very poor ICU provision per capita compared to other countries. Our hospital care provision almost collapsed under the weight of what happened this year.

We were hit and overrun at Christmas by the UK variant which is much more transmissable, more deadly, more likely to make younger people ill enough to require ICU care. Now it accounts for nearly 100% of our cases.
Now other countries across Europe are seeing it's effect as it infiltrates their societies and they are buckling under it too, and that's without them being smack in the middle of a wild free for all Christmas. They'll have no choice but to respond with restrictions too.

Okay, we've very poor ICU provisions, however was the first lockdown not sold to us as giving the health system a chance to build and cope with Covid?

Other European countries have (or had until very recently) economies much more open than us for a long time, they're only seeing impacts from this now. So while other countries have managed economic activities and allowed their populace to breathe and live their lives for some period, we've just been locked down fully and likely will be for the full period that these other European countries shut for.

Refusing to budge, refusing to give people a chance to actually enjoy their lives, is what a major cause of compliancy which we're seeing.

whimsical wrote:

No.
This is like saying do not step in front of a bus that has been proven to have no breaks right after you have seen it hit a row of people and mow them down.
Do not answer the door to a person with a machete after you've watched them kill your neighbour.

This isn't an unknown variable. This is cause and effect. We know exactly what happens when we mix as normal. We have witnessed it. Pretending otherwise is just telling yourself fairy stories.

We could argue about the comparison all day long, but no it's not like that either. You drive a car knowing you could die or crash, but in all likelihood will not. It's the same for someone healthy in the 18-25 group and Covid.

VanWildcard wrote:

Not strict enough? Or poor compliance?

As I'm sure you garnished from my original post, I do not think they're not strict enough, rather the opposite. Poor compliance and a lack of rational engagement in the making of these restrictions. Making restrictions stricter will just result in temporary extra compliance that will taper off into nothing in a few weeks.

If the restrictions were realistic and plausible, compliance would be much higher, but these restrictions are seen as almost laughable by what seems to be a significant portion of the population.

For example, why is public housing deemed essential, but private housing not? Why are those actually paying for their house not able to get work commenced at the moment?

Telling the population "we're all in this together" and seeing scenes such as Leo Varadkar supporting the BLM protests and yet condeming other protest scenes, the lack of enforcement against certain groups such as the recent traveller funeral in Carrick On Shannon and wedding and Salthill, constantly using scapegoats in the media such as students, Gardaí fining people trying to take a socially distant walk on a beach is really p*ssing people off. We're clearly not all in this together.

To be honest, me and most people I know have just completely disregarded the restrictions, and instead take an approach of acting responsibly. Be responsible, take measures to prevent spread, but not at the expense of everything I enjoy in life for over a year.

A lot of the recent posts are almost identical to the ones from back in mid November

Btw, 43 hospitalised today, continuing a trend of an increase in the rate of hospitalisations that has been emerging since 25th Feb. This and the ICU figure, currently 87, are the ones that will dictate what happens after Apr 5th

If those trends continue, while being at level 5,you can forget dropping to 4,3 etc

JCX BXC

I agree, the same as November. Nothing has changed, except it's perhaps more severe a lockdown this time around. And you think an unending lockdown is the answer, that we should forget about anything other than level 5?

New strategy needed, and you've proven my point.

Bobeagleburger

They aren't going to make the mistake of December again. It has taken 3 months and counting to fix it.

I'm expecting to stay as is for another few months. Not ideal but tbh, what's another few months after a year. The vast vast majority of people accept this.

I know a lot of high risk people still not vaccinated. Get all these people sorted and then start to relax.

Get outside. Days are longer. People should be concentrating on exercise and looking after their immune system..

It was a failing from the government not making more of an effort to educate people on their immune system. Instead, a lot of people piled on weight and damaged the most important defense they have against illness.

When you add in the element of getting stuck in negative social media echo chambers, it's a mental health recipe for disaster.

CruelSummer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ok, thank you for engaging.

Now, looking at the numbers for the last 2 weeks where the levels have been basically static, considering the level of lockdown we are currently at and the existing rate of infection, if the country went with your suggestions do you think that the levels would increase, decrease or remain static.

My thoughts are they would increase as this is what has happened each time in countries all over the world.

I'm guessing you will choose decrease or remain static. If that's the case could you please outline why you believe that given there is so much evidence to the contrary.

I actually don’t think any of my proposals will cause a problem as they’re mostly outdoor. But they’re not draconian, they’re acknowledging people need to see each other & interact in as safe a way as possible. They’re not leaving people cut off. Your posts seem to suggest we’re ‘back in November’ which is blatantly untrue. Last summer there were 100s of people on staycations in hotel lobbies, restaurants, etc - but Covid cases & hospitalisations didn’t actually begin to increase until October.
The wave for B117 is over, it will simmer at these numbers for awhile and continue to decrease as we approach summer.
All 50 states in the US had cases falling simultaneously in January, pre vaccination - despite one being locked down and the other open.
You’re acting like case numbers alone are still something to fear. Once the vulnerable are vaccinated, the daily case numbers should stop. Do we count daily case numbers of other viruses circulating? Society needs to begin to reopen with an awareness campaign re actually living with Covid instead of hiding from it and also other health issues that may have been missed.

JCX BXC

JCX BXC wrote: »

To be honest, me and most people I know have just completely disregarded the restrictions, and instead take an approach of acting responsibly. Be responsible, take measures to prevent spread, but not at the expense of everything I enjoy in life for over a year.

So in summary, you're fully supportive of restrictions as long as they don't actually result in any restrictions to your lifestyle?

If the current restrictions are extended for all of us, it's you and your friends that are to blame. You can't blame the restrictions for not working if ye have "just completely disregarded the restrictions".

That's like joining a gym, never going and then complaining that the gym is incapable of making you fit.

JCX BXC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So in summary, you're fully supportive of restrictions as long as they don't actually result in any restrictions to your lifestyle?

If the current restrictions are extended for all of us, it's you and your friends that are to blame. You can't blame the restrictions for not working if ye have "just completely disregarded the restrictions".

That's like joining a gym, never going and then complaining that the gym is incapable of making you fit.

I am not supportive the restrictions, they don't make sense. Yes lifestyles must be curtailed, but sitting alone inside all day is another story.

The restrictions won't work because of lack of compliance, as I have extensively said above, however the blame does not fall on the public who have experienced the harshest lockdown, without being given any rationale as to why it's the harshest lockdown.

Disregarding the restrictions does not mean acting as if Covid does not exist, blaming 'me and my friends' for any wave is a good cop out, sadly you left out the acting responsible piece. I don't see most people I know, I don't go travelling far and wide, I only go to shops when I need to, I don't to to parties or large street gatherings. Is this not acting responsibly? Will I still initiate a 4th wave without doing any of these things?

Again, staunch support of restrictions that have clearly stopped working is truly bizarre to me. Any recourse to criticisms seems to be met with "you're going to be responsible for a 4th wave" and "people will DIE if we don't keep these restrictions".

The best one is: "Lockdown will have to be extended because the restrictions aren't working". Do you see how contradictory the last statement is?

Wompa1

At the point now that I think it's sh1t or get off the pot.

If we're not going for zero or low COVID and maintaining it, let's start easing restrictions. Why are we still in level 5 when so many people are flying in still? It's the contradictions and mediocrity of the approach from Government that are biggest pain in the arse.

Wedding in Salthill, nothing will happen over it. They are saying penal laws so...don't understand why they can't fine them.

Hospitalizations spiking on weekends because despite it being a pandemic, they still don't discharge patients from Friday afternoon until Monday morning. The 3 day delay reporting vaccination numbers because somehow still 3 months later they don't have a way to centralize the reporting and have it updated in real-time.

_Whimsical_

JCX BXC wrote: »

We could argue about the comparison all day long, but no it's not like that either. You drive a car knowing you could die or crash, but in all likelihood will not. It's the same for someone healthy in the 18-25 group and Covid.

I think you misunderstood my point. This isn't about it affecting you, or me, or any individual. This is about the collective. You might be 22 with no risk factors and you might breeze through covid like you would a summer cold. The same is not true however for whole other tracts of the population who might die,end up in icu, get long covid.

However if they're plugging up the hospital suddenly all sorts of things that might be no real risk to your life provided you have treatment become deadly, a car accident, a bang on the head, an inflamed appendix, a bad infection etc.

That's the wolf at the door, it's not your individual experience of Covid infection. It's the one entirely predictable consequence we can rely on happening if we let this virus out to play and why when we take care of others we are taking care of ourselves.

Bobeagleburger

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I think you misunderstood my point. This isn't about it affecting you, or me, or any individual. This is about the collective. You might be 22 with no risk factors and you might breeze through covid like you would a summer cold. The same is not true however for whole other tracts of the population who might die,end up in icu, get long covid.

However if they're plugging up the hospital suddenly all sorts of things that might be no real risk to your life provided you have treatment become deadly, a car accident, a bang on the head, an inflamed appendix, an bad infection etc.

That's the wolf at the door, it's not your individual experience of Covid infection. It's the one entirely predictable consequence we can rely on happening if we let this virus out to play and why when we take care of others we are taking care of ourselves.

It's worrying this has to spelled out.

Many a 5 year old could tell you we are avoiding lots of contact with people in order to protect old people, and keep hospital beds free. It's common sense.

Mrs OBumble

6 wrote: »

It's worrying this has to spelled out.

Many a 5 year old could tell you we are avoiding lots of contact with people in order to protect old people, and keep hospital beds free. It's common sense.

The same effect could be achieved by simply avoiding old people.

And the 5 year old might not know it yet, but all old people are going to die eventually.

ben.schlomo

6 wrote: »

It's worrying this has to spelled out.

Many a 5 year old could tell you we are avoiding lots of contact with people in order to protect old people, and keep hospital beds free. It's common sense.

Ask those who are most at risk to avoid contact with others, to shelter or whatever term they wanna use until they're vaccinated. Thus allowing a reopening of society and the economy. Nothing outlandish in that.

JCX BXC

JCX BXC wrote: »

I am not supportive the restrictions, they don't make sense. Yes lifestyles must be curtailed, but sitting alone inside all day is another story.

Thankfully you're not limited to sitting alone inside with the current or any previous restrictions.

JCX BXC wrote: »

Again, staunch support of restrictions that have clearly stopped working is truly bizarre to me.

How do you measure that they have clearly stopped working?

Cases have been climbing every time we had to tighten up restrictions and that stopped them climbing.

Previously we were able to bring the cases very low with restrictions but with the prevalence of the UK variant the numbers don't come down as easy. We saw how quickly they can rocket, from when restrictions were eased before Christmas.

The effectiveness of the restrictions is further compromised by people taking an à la carte approach to them.

Just because we're not down to zero doesn't mean they're not working. Look at how cases and hospitalisations were trending before restrictions were ramped up again.

One thing the government should do is stop setting dates for the next phase. They should link the framework levels to a rolling average of hospitalisations or % of available ICU capacity.

zell12

Town and Salthill is seriously quiet this weekend.

ben.schlomo

zell12 wrote: »

Town and Salthill is seriously quiet this weekend.

Was fairly busy this morning in around Quay St, Mainguard, Shop St and the Market. Not wedged by any means but plenty around.

zell12

zell12 wrote: »

Town and Salthill is seriously quiet this weekend.

Yeah quiet in Salthill - fresh nip in the air this afternoon though with the mist coming in!

Gadgetman496

22 cases today

_Whimsical_

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The same effect could be achieved by simply avoiding old people.

And the 5 year old might not know it yet, but all old people are going to die eventually.

That's really not the case anymore with the latest variant. Younger people were more affected than they had been in the first wave this year, doctors have reported seeing younger hospital admissions and younger icu admissions, there have been pregnant women in ICU in Ireland, we are aware it constitutes a risk to unborn babies, prevalence of long covid is increasing in all age groups including amongst children.

It's really not a "stash your granny away, be grand" sort of vista anymore at all.

Glenomra

As a matter of interest as a clareman I would normally visit galway about 6 times a year. Charlie byrnes, Kenny's, the pub restaurants etc. Something I cannot do now. Going to limerick instead which is closer and appears quite busy. Just wondering how Galway which to me is somewhat dependant on visitors is doing overall. Looking forward to getting back as soon as restrictions are lifted.

biko

Again, please keep discussion local. I have moved some posts out of the thread and sent to Corona forum.