Coronavirus Part V - 34 cases in ROI, 16 in NI (as of 10 March) *Read warnings in OP*

irishgeo

Acosta wrote: »

Reading that people that think they might have it are unable to get themselves tested by anyone in the HSE is deeply troubling.

Think they might.

The HSE probably rightly ruled they dont have it.

Cilldara_2000

Acosta wrote: »

Reading that people that think they might have it are unable to get themselves tested by anyone in the HSE is deeply troubling.

Reading where?

Also if it's just people who think they have it, I wouldn't be particularly concerned. OTOH if it's people whose GPs think they have it, I would be.

GetWithIt

The map that keeps getting posted is taken from here: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

It’s a dashboard from Johns Hopkins University so best of luck viewing on a small screen.

It’s the same dashboard that appears in the background of all those cabinet “war room” pics so as authoritative as you get and may be worth putting in the OP.

Nijmegen

embraer170 wrote: »

It seems air and rail travel is exempt from the Italian lockdown.

I really don’t know what to say.

When people hear “lockdown” they think Wuhan / China. Realistically if in Italy or France or even Ireland if we tried to enforce that on a mass scale, we wouldn’t have the infrastructure or frankly the political ability. In China every apartment block has party reps who keep an eye on things and of course a much more robust security service. You don’t have that local infrastructure in European democracies. And then what are you going to do, seal every road and shoot people trying to flee across fields?

amber2

iguana wrote: »

I see a lot of people in high infection areas wearing masks, while their long hair flows free. Surely if you got an infected person's cough/sneeze droplets on your hair, that's a really good way to carry the virus around for at least a few hours with a very decent chance of infecting yourself.

Didn’t the nurses in Wuhan have to shave their hair?

Mic 1972

Bob24 wrote: »

Can you explain why rather than just saying you believe it is incorrect without explaining?

If you remember where it started: https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-italy-spread-death-toll-tries-to-control-5-2020-2

“The two most infected regions are Lombardy and Veneto in the north of Italy, home to Milan and Venice.”

That is the exact area covered by my definition of what they should have locked down initially, and that information is nothing new - it has been publicly available for a few weeks.

you are talking about an area 3 times as big as Ireland with several cities most of which still have no cases

Would you lock down the entire Ireland when we hit 50 cases?

niallo27

If you think you have it and cannot get tested then self isolate ya daft bastards. Dont go around spreading it because you couldnt get tested and blame the HSE.

_Whimsical_

What's on the radio right now, again in the name of reassuring us is quite disturbing.

We have 250 intensive care beds in our country. Around a quarter of what's normal in Europe.
That's not 250 for the virus but everyone who has a heart attack, car crash etc and the virus.

We will potentially just not put people over 75 into intensive care and concentrate on treating "productive members of society" according to adr from CUH. That'll be a decision to let people die of this. 75 is not old. It's the age of lots of our relatively vital parents.

Why in earth when we are looking down the barrel of that scenario are we offering reassurance and not taking the most drastic measures to stop the spread?

CinemaGuy45

MD1990 wrote: »

i apologise for my comment earlier about some enjoying this.

It was unfair. I mistook interest for enjoyment.

Fair enough.

I am meant to be going away in less then a week also I have elderly relatives who and am really worried for.

Sticking with this thread to try and get a clearer picture of what is going on.

People saying be are all going to be grand does not make me feel better.

I do not trust the media the HSE or the WHO nor do I believe we are all doomed but I also believe we do not have a good overall picture of this yet.

cnocbui

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

My friend I mentioned in one of these friends has just made the difficult decision to cancel her honeymoon in Japan. She was meant to go 2 weeks from now. While they don't seem to have that many cases there relative to some European countries, it feels like too much of a risk to travel so far at a time when things are changing so fast. She reckons she'll probably catch it in London anyway but better that than being stuck in a foreign country where they're in denial about how bad the situation is, either sick or unable to get home.

British Airways have refused to refund any money and are saying flights are still going as normal, so they're out thousands of pounds for flights, as well as losing their annual leave and having their honeymoon ruined.

I'm so gutted for her...she's had a really hard year with serious illness and this was a huge treat, and now she's going to spend her honeymoon sitting at home in London for 2 weeks, not even able to properly enjoy it because of coronavirus.

I think she should have gone, if she's in the age group where there's an 85% chance of being symptomless or mild. So long as she had travel insurance she would be fine. I'd rather end up in a Japanese hospital than one run by the HSE, as Japan's health system has the best outcomes of any country. I would bet that by the time her flights would leave, this country would be a more dangerous place to be, with regards catching it, than travelling to Japan would.

Mic 1972

niallo27 wrote: »

If you think you have it and cannot get tested then self isolate ya daft bastards. Dont go around spreading it because you couldnt get tested and blame the HSE.

Amen

Graces7

Achasanai wrote: »

People mistake interest for enjoyment. You can see the same comments when a storm is coming on the weather threads and people are posting about it there.

Ah no. The weather folk openly admit they love and enjoy storms and get angry when the weather does not live up to their hopes.

Hopefully not the same here at al in any way.

Bob24

Mic 1972 wrote: »

you are talking about an area 3 times as big as Ireland with several cities most of which still have no cases

Would you lock down the entire Ireland when we hit 50 cases?

They passed 50 cases a while ago. And part of my criticism has always been that that they failed to detect the outbreak early enough. When they counted 50 they probably had a lot more.

So if size/population is your criteria, China should not have locked down Hubei province which is even more populated?

iguana

Sweet mother of god! I bought a few immune booster supplements yesterday and just tried the bee propolis liquid now. :eek::( I think I'd prefer the virus! It's mank.

Arrival

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Exactly and also the fact that some of these people live with elderly parents etc.

It's nothing short of callous.

Another great part about having a disastrous housing crisis. It's honestly too much of a perfect concoction of **** ups as a nation leading us into this mess

DOCARCH

Not sure how effective the Italian lock down will be?

When areas in China went into lock down, that meant people being forced to stay in their own house/apartment for the lock down period.

In Italy, as far as I am aware, people are free to move around and interact within the lock down area (but just not allowed in or out of the lock down area).

05eaftqbrs9jlh

irishgeo wrote: »

Think they might.

The HSE probably rightly ruled they dont have it.

The criteria for testing currently is those who have flown back from affected regions and are showing symptoms and those who have come in contact with a confirmed case and are showing symptoms.

An intellectually disabled woman I work with who has a minimum of six different carers in for her during the week and she was showing symptoms last Tuesday. I couldn't procure her a test for love nor money. She doesn't have the capacity to look after herself or ask those carers questions, she doesn't understand anything about the virus. I'm going to be working with her again this Tuesday so it will be interesting to see if her symptoms have deteriorated or if anyone has contacted her regarding possible contact. If I weren't aware of how transmissible it is (many of her carers aren't) and she contracted it off one of her nursing staff (also works in CUH) I could catch it easily and nothing is being done to protect me or those I'm close to. Also she's being left totally by the wayside.

Popoutman

GetWithIt wrote: »

The map that keeps getting posted is taken from here: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

It’s a dashboard from Johns Hopkins University so best of luck viewing on a small screen.

Mobile link for that dashboard here: https://arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/85320e2ea5424dfaaa75ae62e5c06e61
Swipe left and right for the additional data.

irishgeo

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

What's on the radio right now, again in the name of reassuring us is quite disturbing.

We have 250 intensive care beds in our country. Around a quarter of what's normal in Europe.
That's not 250 for the virus but everyone who has a heart attack, car crash etc and the virus.

We will potentially just not put people over 75 into intensive care and concentrate on treating "productive members of society" according to adr from CUH. That'll be a decision to let people die of this. 75 is not old. It's the age of lots of our relatively vital parents.

Why in earth when we are looking down the barrel of that scenario are we offering reassurance and not taking the most static measures to stop the spread?

Any ward can be turned into an icu ward. It's nothing special. Its extra equipment and 24/7 nursing staff on duty. Stop **** stirring. Most people aren't going to need a icu bed.

amadangomor

niallo27 wrote: »

If you think you have it and cannot get tested then self isolate ya daft bastards. Dont go around spreading it because you couldnt get tested and blame the HSE.

Good point but who will pay my mortgage if I don't go to work. The government needs to do something and subsidise employers to help pay workers who would self isolate.

statesaver

Spain has now confirmed 589 cases of the coronavirus - a rise of 159 from Saturday - along with 13 deaths.

That's a huge increase in a week

jam_mac_jam

amadangomor wrote: »

Good point but who will pay my mortgage if I don't go to work. The government needs to do something and subsidise employers to help pay workers who would self isolate.

You will. The government can't pay everyone's mortgage.

Do you expect them to wipe your arse as well.

CIARAN_BOYLE

iguana wrote: »

I see a lot of people in high infection areas wearing masks, while their long hair flows free. Surely if you got an infected person's cough/sneeze droplets on your hair, that's a really good way to carry the virus around for at least a few hours with a very decent chance of infecting yourself.

Yep.

Hence my rant on the previous thread that masks provide but not much protection. For the average person who just puts on a mask it provides zero protection.

CinemaGuy45

statesaver wrote: »

Spain has now confirmed 589 cases of the coronavirus - a rise of 159 from Saturday - along with 13 deaths.

That's a huge increase in a week

They should have gone with the Irish approach have all their health officials take the weekend off.

Popoutman

irishgeo wrote: »

Any ward can be turned into an icu ward. It's nothing special. Its extra equipment and 24/7 nursing staff on duty. Stop **** stirring. Most people aren't going to need a icu bed.

And where will that staffing come from? We've been relying on "agency" staff for some time already. We do not have the existing capacity right now to increase greatly the ICU numbers in time.

Correct that most people won't need a bed, but it's extremely likely that a few thousand will by mid-June (see my previous post and the link in it in this thread for why), and we will not be able to put that capacity in place in time for the peak of the respiratory-compromised infected.

We're not doing enough yet to either prevent the spread, or to be able to manage the fallout from the expected number of infections.

Nijmegen

irishgeo wrote: »

Any ward can be turned into an icu ward. It's nothing special. Its extra equipment and 24/7 nursing staff on duty. Stop **** stirring. Most people aren't going to need a icu bed.

In Lombardy officials have basically said they are moving into triage now because they are overwhelmed. We know that the percentage of cases that do become serious are quite intensive in manpower to keep alive. That’s partially why young and otherwise low risk doctors have been dropping dead treating them. Putting your head in the sand on the idea that we can just magically deal with a proper sized outbreak when we have people dying on trolleys in normal circumstances is equally silly to saying this will end the world.

For a lot of people I fear this is an academic exercise for now. If people we love start dying and we’re thinking afterwards over all of this, some steps we could have taken will make us angry to think about. Please god it doesn’t come to pass, but I just think we have plenty of examples of the spread of this now to at least take an educated guess.

Graces7

Andrea B. wrote: »

A search on "coronavirus" on Adverts, shows the sad side of humanity.
Advertising of facemasks at silly prices, to cash in on peoples fears and anxieties. Shame on them.

There was a case in the UK reported last week where folk were sending money for advertised face masks that never arrived. Utterly shameful

frillyleaf

transylman wrote: »

Boggles the mind that Patricks day parades have not been cancelled yet. They were postponed back in 2001 due to the uk foot and mouth outbreak, along with 6 nations moved back to autumn. Current situation would merit at least this level of response.

I feel they will be empty anyway. I was in town last night and temple bar was very quiet. I feel for the businesses being affected by this and also for people that are nervous of this due to having vulnerable people in their family.

Has anyone considered the delay of the virus and increasing temperatures and how that can affect it? I wonder what temperature if lives on surfaces at best? They are likely testing this

Drumpot

DOCARCH wrote: »

Not sure how effective the Italian lock down will be?

When areas in China went into lock down, that meant people being forced to stay in their own house/apartment for the lock down period.

In Italy, as far as I am aware, people are free to move around and interact within the lock down area (but just not allowed in or out of the lock down area).

This seems to be part of the problem , we can’t take people’s rights to move around and some people don’t care about infecting others. What’s probably more troublesome is that a lot of people still appear to think this is a problem to be dealt with by in essence waiting to see how bad it gets before taking any meaningful efforts to slow the spread.

Feels kind of like some countries are using this “containment phase” as a way to put off making hard calls. When all evidence points to most countries following a similar graph to those around them, what makes any country think they can contain this ? Only countries that have taken quick action have been able to get some sort of handle on this, I really don’t understand how this is not considered a worthwhile strategy.

Timberrrrrrrr

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

They should have gone with the Irish approach have all their health officials take the weekend off.

Ah would you stop spouting this shìte ffs

cnocbui

iguana wrote: »

I see a lot of people in high infection areas wearing masks, while their long hair flows free. Surely if you got an infected person's cough/sneeze droplets on your hair, that's a really good way to carry the virus around for at least a few hours with a very decent chance of infecting yourself.

Carrying it around is no problem. I'll bet they hit the showers directly after shedding the gear, so it would get washed away then and not be a problem. Women are less susceptible than men also - generally.

Nijmegen

DOCARCH wrote: »

Not sure how effective the Italian lock down will be?

When areas in China went into lock down, that meant people being forced to stay in their own house/apartment for the lock down period.

In Italy, as far as I am aware, people are free to move around and interact within the lock down area (but just not allowed in or out of the lock down area).

Democracies cannot take the steps the Chinese did. It’s that simple.

ArchXStanton

amadangomor wrote: »

Good point but who will pay my mortgage if I don't go to work. The government needs to do something and subsidise employers to help pay workers who would self isolate.

That will be another thing that stands out after this crisis, just how squeezed people are in the face of an emergency

Acosta

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Reading where?

Also if it's just people who think they have it, I wouldn't be particularly concerned. OTOH if it's people whose GPs think they have it, I would be.

Reddit and Twitter. Hopefully they don't. I fear the way the HSE are handling this entire thing there might be an explosion of it in a week or two as too many are not taking precautions now. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Cork Boy 53

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Fair enough.

I am meant to be going away in less then a week also I have elderly relatives who and am really worried for.

Sticking with this thread to try and get a clearer picture of what is going on.

People saying be are all going to be grand does not make me feel better.

I do not trust the media the HSE or the WHO nor do I believe we are all doomed but I also believe we do not have a good overall picture of this yet.

Going away where?

KWAG2019

amadangomor wrote: »

Good point but who will pay my mortgage if I don't go to work. The government needs to do something and subsidise employers to help pay workers who would self isolate.

They don’t need to do that. The banking system EU wide has to be told that mortgages may be delayed with this pandemic. It may need legal tweaking but that’s all.

Gynoid

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

My friend I mentioned in one of these friends has just made the difficult decision to cancel her honeymoon in Japan. She was meant to go 2 weeks from now. While they don't seem to have that many cases there relative to some European countries, it feels like too much of a risk to travel so far at a time when things are changing so fast. She reckons she'll probably catch it in London anyway but better that than being stuck in a foreign country where they're in denial about how bad the situation is, either sick or unable to get home.

British Airways have refused to refund any money and are saying flights are still going as normal, so they're out thousands of pounds for flights, as well as losing their annual leave and having their honeymoon ruined.

I'm so gutted for her...she's had a really hard year with serious illness and this was a huge treat, and now she's going to spend her honeymoon sitting at home in London for 2 weeks, not even able to properly enjoy it because of coronavirus.

I think she should go. She will be as safe in Japan as anywhere else. The world is not going to lock down, and if they did get delayed in Japan for a while it would be fine. If she decides not to go, then she should be cheerful about that decision rather than gutted or mournful. That would be a total downer on the start of tgeir marriage. Chin up. Money is gone, it would have been gone anyway. If they stay they have 2 weeks to lounge around the London pad, no work, watch movies, eat take out, make love and never get out of their pajamas. How bad could it be.

CinemaGuy45

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Going away where?

Lanzarote.

Arrival

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

What's on the radio right now, again in the name of reassuring us is quite disturbing.

We have 250 intensive care beds in our country. Around a quarter of what's normal in Europe.
That's not 250 for the virus but everyone who has a heart attack, car crash etc and the virus.

We will potentially just not put people over 75 into intensive care and concentrate on treating "productive members of society" according to adr from CUH. That'll be a decision to let people die of this. 75 is not old. It's the age of lots of our relatively vital parents.

Why in earth when we are looking down the barrel of that scenario are we offering reassurance and not taking the most drastic measures to stop the spread?

I've been considering this situation playing out for a while after seeing the ICU numbers from Italy blow past our own number of ICU beds and it's got me shook, it's why I'm taking it so seriously because, as you say, who decides which cases get the few available ICU beds available? Will my parents/grandparents/aunt's/uncle's end up not being able to get an ICU bed if they need one?... People need to think about all of this and push for quicker and more action to reduce the likelihood of such situations, or at least the number of times such situations occur, because those are the kinds of things that even medical professionals would struggle to cope with long-term

All avoidable if we simply made the effort now to stop us reaching extreme levels

Burty330

Is it true thousands of Italians flew into Dublin over the weekend and proceed to walk around willy-nilly.

I think all routes to and from Italy should be halted temporarily.

amadangomor

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You will. The government can't pay everyone's mortgage.

Do you expect them to wipe your arse as well.

No I won't on whatever sick pay pays.I can clean my own arse as long as I can work and get my wages to pay for the bog roll. My family can't live without my wages.

I have a chest infection and I don't meet the criteria to be tested so why should I self diagnose and self isolate when I have no medical knowledge. The experts are telling me I am fine and I don't meet the criteria to be tested so it's on them if my assessment of myself is wrong - I'm 99% sure that I've a cold.

Martina1991

Green farmer wrote:

Can they make a cheap mass produced, disposable test kit ? Sell them for a euro or two. Available from the chemist. Then everyone could test themselves at the slightest cough and would stop the spread, as you wouldn't be walking around undiagnosed.

No, you are way oversimplifying the testing process. It's not like a pregnancy test.

cnocbui

irishgeo wrote: »

Any ward can be turned into an icu ward. It's nothing special. Its extra equipment and 24/7 nursing staff on duty. Stop **** stirring. Most people aren't going to need a icu bed.

The issue isn't 'most', its the fact that there will be more cases needing ICU than beds so equipped.

irishgeo

irishgeo wrote: »

Any ward can be turned into an icu ward. It's nothing special. Its extra equipment and 24/7 nursing staff on duty. Stop **** stirring. Most people aren't going to need a icu bed.

I'm afraid this isn't true. ICU involved one to one nursing. You wouldn't have the space in a six bedded dorm to have ICU equipment for six patients. Also, you are forgetting about the lack of ICU specialised staff. I wish it was as easy as that.

I agree with you that the vast majority of symptomatic patients won't need ICU level treatment.

joe40

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Fair enough.

I am meant to be going away in less then a week also I have elderly relatives who and am really worried for.

Sticking with this thread to try and get a clearer picture of what is going on.

People saying be are all going to be grand does not make me feel better.

I do not trust the media the HSE or the WHO nor do I believe we are all doomed but I also believe we do not have a good overall picture of this yet.

I really do sympathise with your worry about elderly relatives. I feel the same. I just find it hard to believe someone would distrust media, HSE and WHO but instead look for advice from random strangers on an internet forum.
And even then only from people you agree with.

frillyleaf

GetWithIt wrote: »

The map that keeps getting posted is taken from here: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

It’s a dashboard from Johns Hopkins University so best of luck viewing on a small screen.

It’s the same dashboard that appears in the background of all those cabinet “war room” pics so as authoritative as you get and may be worth putting in the OP.

Where is the one that shows the infection over time ?

Cody montana

Burty330 wrote: »

Is it true thousands of Italians flew into Dublin over the weekend and proceed to walk around willy-nilly.

I think all routes to and from Italy should be halted temporarily.

What about France, Germany, UK, USA?

Arrival

Arrival wrote: »

I've been considering this situation playing out for a while after seeing the ICU numbers from Italy blow past our own number of ICU beds and it's got me shook, it's why I'm taking it so seriously because, as you say, who decides which cases get the few available ICU beds available? Will my parents/grandparents/aunt's/uncle's end up not being able to get an ICU bed if they need one?... People need to think about all of this and push for quicker and more action to reduce the likelihood of such situations, or at least the number of times such situations occur, because those are the kinds of things that even medical professionals would struggle to cope with long-term

All avoidable if we simply made the effort now to stop us reaching extreme levels

The population of Lombardy is twice that of Ireland. Comparing like to like of beds doesn't make sense.

iguana

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Yep.

Hence my rant on the previous thread that masks provide but not much protection. For the average person who just puts on a mask it provides zero protection.

I'm guessing that a multi layered mask, goggles, a hat covering all your hair, a waterproof coat with a high collar & hood up, disposable gloves and some sort of over-pants would be needed. When you come home, take everything off immediately. Dispose of the disposable items. Soak the reasuable fabrics in a bleach solution before washing at a high temperature, wash your shoes and goggles with bleach, and fully wash your face and hands. And unless you are in, or in high contact with someone in, a really high risk group, I really don't think many people are going to do all that.

amadangomor

Cody montana wrote: »

What about France, Germany, UK, USA?

All our cases apart from the one unaccounted one came from people visiting Italy