The SF vote was part of a class war against Middle Ireland

Skylinehead

blanch152 wrote: »

You're only here a wet week, how do you know who or what the usual crowd are?

Are you seriously not aware that people can close accounts and start new ones?

growleaves

blanch152 wrote: »

You're only here a wet week, how do you know who or what the usual crowd are?

I don't.

Are you the 2024 version of "I voted for FG/FF in 2020 and felt so left down that I am voting for SF this time out"?

Lol

Plumbthedepths

It's all good folks the status quo will continue. Covid 19 ,like Brexit will give FF and FG the necessary cover to go into government. In the national interest don't you know along with the vegetables as a mudguard.

Plumbthedepths

Skylinehead wrote: »

Are you seriously not aware that people can close accounts and start new ones?

They should, from personal experience.

Muahahaha

Yurt! wrote: »

The largest bulge in the Irish population pyramid is the 35-44 age group. This is the age-group where the recession had the largest detrimental effect in what should have been the prime of their working lives, and not enough of them have felt the benefits of the upswing, in a hell of a lot of cases, this age group are experiencing declining living standards despite runaway GDP.

Both FF and FG are culpable, and who could blame this age group for abandoning them en masse?

Yeah definitely a watershed moment from that age group. They got told they would be rewarded for getting up early in the morning but it turns out FG rigged the housing market so that they cant afford one like their parents did. You now need an income of 100k in Dublin to afford a house, people in that age group are now locked out of the housing market for life and staring into the new reality of renting for the rest of their lives.

Skylinehead

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

They should, from personal experience.

Oh yeah I forgot that. Ffs blanch

BanditLuke

suicide_circus wrote: »

not commenting on you personally. anyone who has never made an prsi contributions and lives in a house provided by the state is in receipt of a free house.

That's a problem for those in power be it councilors or government not those in social housing like my family and myself who are sick of being labeled with the free houses tag. If you or anyone has a legitimate issue with that lobby your TD to throw the ones that don't pay out of the houses and don't paint everyone in social housing with the same brush.

Auguste Comte

blanch152 wrote: »

You're only here a wet week, how do you know who or what the usual crowd are?

Are you the 2024 version of "I voted for FG/FF in 2020 and felt so left down that I am voting for SF this time out"?

Play the ball, not the man. Good lad.

suicide_circus

BanditLuke wrote: »

That's a problem for those in power be it councilors or government not those in social housing like my family and myself who are sick of being labeled with the free houses tag. If you or anyone has a legitimate issue with that lobby your TD to throw the ones that don't pay out of the houses and don't paint everyone in social housing with the same brush.

eh cool your jets lad.

some people need free houses.

i'm simply contradicting the idea that there's "no such thing as a free house".

Granny15

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Very interesting article in the Times about where SF transfers went:



https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/sinn-f%C3%A9in-supporters-not-interested-in-a-left-alliance-or-coalition-with-fianna-f%C3%A1il-1.4196665


What this shows above all else is that the SF vote was largely a strike against Middle Class Ireland. In Dublin, almost half of SF transfers went to PBP/Socialist party. Another 23 percent went to left leaning independents. Only 5 percent of SF transfers went to Labour and only 12 percent to SocDems, who presumably the Shinners see as more middle class.



The correct way to view this election is through a class war lens. Not through a policy lens of housing and health. Particularly in Dublin. If it was about housing and health, then Labour and SocDems would be getting way more SF transfers.



SF won 80% of the vote in Darndale. Now this is an area that is almost 100% social or taxpayer supported in some way. Few voters are renting on the open market there. So don't try to convince me they care about rent. Their SF vote was not about policy. If getting a free house for their kids was all important, they would be transferring more to Labour and SocDems.



Hope the semi-intelligent voters who thought they'd punt on SF know they're in the company of the parents of those lovely feral street kids burning cars in Darndale.

Why are some of the upper class drones on here so intent on turning the lower class against the middle class? Simple - they are hated by both.

I would be interested to know how you think this vote sharing in effect plays out in regular society. To my mind both are incensed that a few privileged, self entitled bigots in power playing the mammy's boys like Paschal Donoghue are fleecing this country dry and then churning out GDP figures that are supposed to make us happy?

It's time for a revolt followed by reunification of the country and the elite stopped blocking this attempt to make the country whole again.

super_furry

Granny15 wrote: »

Why are some of the upper class drones on here so intent on turning the lower class against the middle class? Simple - they are hated by both.

Where do you think you live?

Granny15

super_furry wrote: »

Where do you think you live?

Ireland - why?

super_furry

Granny15 wrote: »

Ireland - why?

Because the way you're spouting on about upper class, middle class, lower class and the rest it sounds like you're in medieval France. Just waiting on you to tell us what the serfs and chattels are up to.

JohnnyFlash

super_furry wrote: »

Because the way you're spouting on about upper class, middle class, lower class and the rest it sounds like you're in medieval France. Just waiting on you to tell us what the serfs and chattels are up to.

Real bang of student politics off the dude. All wings and classes.

tipptom

growleaves wrote: »

Voting for a social democratic party isn't lashing out.

Ironically since the election several posters who support either FG or economic liberalism generally have disclosed their fantasies of the economy crashing and said it would serve people right for voting for SF.

One guy said he was going to go to Malta and to hell with this country. Another guy said he hoped the State would run out of resources and go back into recession.

All these posts received likes from the usual crowd - Eric Cartman etc

These posters are not even hiding their vindictive wish for revenge in the form of economic chaos - then they project that on to others.

+1
How many posts have we seen since the election results along the lines of,"hope they get in to power now and watch the economy the economy go down the pan in six months".

Granny15

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Real bang of student politics off the dude. All wings and classes.

No doubt you were a student at one time yourself. "Bang"? Loike how you doing dude?

The reality is that people are for whatever reason on different incomes - that divides us up into different income classes - like it or not.

What I don't believe is that some people that have pulled themselves out of poverty into the middle classes in the past century are against the working class.

It doesn't figure in my household or in anyone I know. I will add a caveat to that - I am a Dubliner and it might be different down the country. I've seen some filthy rich countrymen disown everything they came from to being British subjects and going to Cheltenham etc. Lowlives of men.

It's not an option for someone like myself who has ascended from poverty to disown and lambaste SF like some from the upper class on here do (i.e FG supporters). They have no morals and no roots other than the tradition of supression of the majority to their own gain.

Mock me all you want with ciriticism of class but it does exist in modern society - Parasite being my favourite recent film critiquing this.

Auguste Comte

In all fareness if anyone has gone to war against "middle Ireland" it's the FFG government's of the last few decades.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

1 case of a professional middle class couple defaulting on debts against private lenders does not justify or excuse the hundreds of thousands voting to extort the taxpayer for free gafs

Bailing out bondholders who gambled and lost. Companies 'too big to fail'. Millions in debts written off for individuals who are mostly back making more millions.
The 'whingers' and 'want something for noting' tax payers are the ones left with generational debt because of a system rigged by FF/FG to benefit their own so forgive me if I don't get as het up about the Christmas bonus as you might.
Contribute more my hole. It's this logic has us were we are and that's responsible for a lot of working tax payers reliant on state aid in some form. Wake up ffs.

Brendan Bendar

Bowie wrote: »

Bailing out bondholders who gambled and lost. Companies 'too big to fail'. Millions in debts written off for individuals who are mostly back making more millions.
The 'whingers' and 'want something for noting' tax payers are the ones left with generational debt because of a system rigged by FF/FG to benefit their own so forgive me if I don't get as het up about the Christmas bonus as you might.
Contribute more my hole. It's this logic has us were we are and that's responsible for a lot of working tax payers reliant on state aid in some form. Wake up ffs.

My friend, if the senior bond holders were scuttled, this country would never have gotten another red cent.

Who would give Venezuela big loans, I ask myself.

Idbatterim

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

My friend, if the senior bond holders were scuttled, this country would never have gotten another red cent.

Who would give Venezuela big loans, I ask myself.

I morally disagree with the bank bailout, in particular anglo or irish nationwide. But this country having to cut its expenditure, to meet its income? LOL! there would have been "hard decisions" then alright, instead of borrowing tens of billions to keep all the gravy trains flowing.

James Brown

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

My friend, if the senior bond holders were scuttled, this country would never have gotten another red cent.

Who would give Venezuela big loans, I ask myself.

We're talking about people who seemingly contribute more. If someone lost their hole on bonds/shares and the tax payer, (remember the whinging tax payers?) had to go into generational debt to help them out, how the fup are they contributing? Same for all the shams lost their shirts, had millions written off and are back a it today calling the majority whingers.

growleaves

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

My friend, if the senior bond holders were scuttled, this country would never have gotten another red cent.

There's being pragmatic with regard to bondholders/multinationals, which we should do, and then there's calling them the best of people and taking everything they say at face value.

Politics is a negotiation. You start by asking for the most that you think you'll be able to get.

Business people are the ultimate pragmatists and the election proved as much. If Ibec’s chief executive Danny McCoy had been tearing around Mondello race track in a Subaru Impreza, he could scarcely have done a better handbrake turn than the one he performed on Monday, once it became clear that Sinn Féin had a chance of governing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/how-business-will-adapt-if-sinn-f%C3%A9in-grasps-levers-of-power-1.4172881

Auguste Comte

Bowie wrote: »

We're talking about people who seemingly contribute more. If someone lost their hole on bonds/shares and the tax payer, (remember the whinging tax payers?) had to go into generational debt to help them out, how the fup are they contributing? Same for all the shams lost their shirts, had millions written off and are back a it today calling the majority whingers.

Yea, and its all the shinners fault.

growleaves

Who would give Venezuela big loans, I ask myself.

In Venezuela they do things like seize private industries and put the owners in a dungeon. Or kill them.

There's no comparison with drastic but non-violent measures like defaulting on bonds.

There's no relevance in these analogies to Ireland at all because nobody really thinks that Eoin O'Broin is going to walk into KBC and declare himself the acting head while the CEO is dragged off to prison.

This propaganda is really lame. Its noise.

Brendan Bendar

growleaves wrote: »

In Venezuela they do things like seize private industries and put the owners in a dungeon. Or kill them.

There's no comparison with drastic but non-violent measures like defaulting on bonds.

There's no relevance in these analogies to Ireland at all because nobody really thinks that Eoin O'Broin is going to walk into KBC and declare himself the acting head while the CEO is dragged off to prison.

This propaganda is really lame. Its noise.

It’s neither propaganda or lame my friend, and it’s far from noise.

While agreeing we are not as drastic as Venezuela,a different handling of the bank crash could have left our country in ruins, our citizens destitute, their savings gone, and our economic structure starved of funds,and our public services unable to be paid.

People seem very quick here to fire up the ‘ burn the bond holder ‘argument and why we should have burned both the senior and junior of that category.

None of them seem to ever contemplate the result if we had actually done it.

Uhmmmmm...

growleaves

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

It’s neither propaganda or lame my friend, and it’s far from noise.

While agreeing we are not as drastic as Venezuela,a different handling of the bank crash could have left our country in ruins, our citizens destitute, their savings gone, and our economic structure starved of funds,and our public services unable to be paid.

People seem very quick here to fire up the ‘ burn the bond holder ‘argument and why we should have burned both the senior and junior of that category.

Some of them seem to ever contemplate the result if we had actually done it.

Uhmmmmm...

I should have been clear, the bolded part above was all I was referring to by saying 'propaganda'. Comparisons of SF with hardcore Communist countries aren't helpful imo.

James Brown

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

It’s neither propaganda or lame my friend, and it’s far from noise.

While agreeing we are not as drastic as Venezuela,a different handling of the bank crash could have left our country in ruins, our citizens destitute, their savings gone, and our economic structure starved of funds,and our public services unable to be paid.

People seem very quick here to fire up the ‘ burn the bond holder ‘argument and why we should have burned both the senior and junior of that category.

None of them seem to ever contemplate the result if we had actually done it.

Uhmmmmm...

It's complete spin and propaganda. You brought Venezuela into the discussion. Your raising 'burn the bondholders' and the threat of where such actions may lead us, fear that we must always do what our financial overlords dictate and sure they crash the economy and put us into generational debt, but 'Venezuela'! Basically we are to do what we are told to keep the two tier system on track and bail it out when it collapses as it is prone to do from time to time.
But we digress Bren.
The conversation was regarding how our betters contribute more with the added inference that those worse off, (the working tax payer) want something for nothing and seek to punish success.
Let's be clear, what ever the arguments for or against, we have a class of wealthy to very wealthy people who operate in a system designed to cover their loses should they lose and writing off debts in numbers most of us can only dream of, while leaving them in comfort and a position from which they can get back to making millions under the same circumstances as before while the majority slog it out and get called 'whingers' if they cry foul.

Brendan Bendar

Bowie wrote: »

It's complete spin and propaganda. You brought Venezuela into the discussion. Your raising 'burn the bondholders' and the threat of where such actions may lead us, fear that we must always do what our financial overlords dictate and sure they crash the economy and put us into generational debt, but 'Venezuela'! Basically we are to do what we are told to keep the two tier system on track and bail it out when it collapses as it is prone to do from time to time.
But we digress Bren.
The conversation was regarding how our betters contribute more with the added inference that those worse off, (the working tax payer) want something for nothing and seek to punish success.
Let's be clear, what ever the arguments for or against, we have a class of wealthy to very wealthy people who operate in a system designed to cover their loses should they lose and writing off debts in numbers most of us can only dream of, while leaving them in comfort and a position from which they can get back to making millions under the same circumstances as before while the majority slog it out and get called 'whingers' if they cry foul.

Is there any country in the whole world apart from possibly North Korea which doesn’t have a “class of wealthy people”?

Once they comply with the laws of the respective country operate in there’s no point whinging.

James Brown

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Is there any country in the whole world apart from possibly North Korea which doesn’t have a “class of wealthy people”?

Once they comply with the laws of the respective country operate in there’s no point whinging.

Eh, we could change the government and change the system Bren. No point whinging for the sake of it, sure.
Middle Ireland have spoken Bren and they are becoming more and more sick of FF/FG.

Brendan Bendar

Bowie wrote: »

Eh, we could change the government and change the system Bren. No point whinging for the sake of it, sure.
Middle Ireland have spoken Bren and they are becoming more and more sick of FF/FG.

I’d have to disagree there Bee, yes Middle Ireland want housing and health sorted, but the so called parties of the left don’t seem to be up to forming a govt.

FG wanted to go into opp. but the bunch of assorted lefties nearly soiled themselves when the thought they might have to run the country.They couldn’t do it.

You see you couldn’t change the govt. and change the system Bee, maybe in the far future perhaps, but no point in whining that the electorate want change when it’s obvious you can’t change it.

You need to convince the electorate that you can sort things out, you are a long way from convincing them right now.