EA not putting current bid in email

Prezatch

Is it unreasonable to ask for email confirmation of the most recent bid during a bidding war? The EA I'm dealing with has given all communication to me verbally which I'm slightly concerned about. They say my bids must be through email for the PRSA - that part I agree is fine. So on the one hand they want to encourage transparency, but on the other they don't offer it.

I made an initial bid above 2 other bidders (after previous bid verbally confirmed), been outbid by one, and subsequently they have been outbid by the third, all verbal. But I was met with frankly an aggressive tone on the phone when I asked could I get the most recent bid confirmed via email. Am I being overly cautious?

Doop

I suspect you are being overly cautious, are you afraid there are phantom bids?

why dont you email the EA and say you are in meetings all week and wont be able to take calls but to email you and you will respond via email and that you are very interested in the property etc etc?

Ray Palmer

Doop wrote: »

I suspect you are being overly cautious, are you afraid there are phantom bids?

why dont you email the EA and say you are in meetings all week and wont be able to take calls but to email you and you will respond via email and that you are very interested in the property etc etc?

EA most likely doesn't want any bids recorded as what they said. We all know they make up bids and will mislead to get a higher price or even to not sell.

I was looking at buying a house and the EA told me this story about how it was an inheritance and one siblings was being awkward looking for more. The thing is I knew the owners were still alive and their children were still teenagers.

I placed my bid and he came back to me saying the sibling wanted an extra €5k. Spent about 10 minutes talking to him about the bid until I told him I knew he was lying. He denied it until I named the owner and their children and asked was it the 14 year old or the 15 year old holding out for the higher price. I withdrew my offer.

I told the owners what happened when I saw them and they were not impressed. They changed EAs a few days later and it took about 6 months to sell at less than I offered.

JohnnyChimpo

this is almost certainly a fictitious bid, yes

mountai

Believe NOTHING an EA tells you .

EstateAgent

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

this is almost certainly a fictitious bid, yes

Haha what rubbish.

OP this is almost certainly not a fictitious bid. Unless the EA is particularly dodgy or a crook or something. Believe it or not it's almost unheard of that an EA makes up an offer out of thin air. I have a lot of experience in the industry and I have never once fabricated a bid and have never seen a colleague do so either. The kind of reaction you're getting above is just from paranoid people who assume anything anyone in sales says is a lie. To be fair to them there might be some EA's that make up bids but these guys are just crooks and gangsters and they form a tiny part of the overall industry. Thankfully with better regulation in recent years these guys are getting phased out. Any EA that creates phantom bids deserves to be locked up IMO.

Anyways back to your original point I think it's good that they are seeking bids from you via email. A paper trail will be very helpful if you ever decide to report this transaction to the PSA. Maybe in your emails start each one with "as per your last call that an offer of €x was submitted I would like to bid €x".

I would say the EA just prefers to deal by phone as you get a better feel for each bidder by talking to them and you usually get a quicker response which helps move the sale along. It's probably more just this EA's standard way of operating. EA's are always on the move so it's easier to make a call but it's also good practice by this EA to ask for any bids in writing in case they forget the call etc.

If you were met with an aggressive tone it could be to do with the way you asked for the conversation in writing? If you did it in a way that was obvious that you were suspicious if they were being truthful it would definitely antagonise them. I would personally be pretty annoyed if someone was questioning me and calling me a liar. However I've been asked many times to put bids in writing and never have an issue with it.

Also maybe the EA is just not a nice person - always a good chance of that!

JohnnyChimpo

Thank you forums user "EstateAgent" for your impassioned defence of Estate Agents. Despite my direct experience of EAs refusing to register low bids, and other sharp practice, I am now definitely convinced that no EA would ever behave in a way that is less than completely ethical in order to personally profit

e:

EstateAgent wrote: »

Haha what rubbish.

OP this is almost certainly not a fictitious bid.

EstateAgent wrote: »

To be fair to them there might be some EA's that make up bids but these guys are just crooks and gangsters and they form a tiny part of the overall industry.

uh...huh

EstateAgent

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

Thank you forums user "EstateAgent" for your impassioned defence of Estate Agents. Despite my direct experience of EAs refusing to register low bids, and other sharp practice, I am now definitely convinced that no EA would ever behave in a way that is less than completely ethical in order to personally profit

e:






uh...huh

You could say it's sharp practice not including the other half of that sentence

JohnnyChimpo

EstateAgent wrote: »

You could say it's sharp practice not including the other half of that sentence

Fair enough, I wasn't trying to selectively quote, so I've added it in. I don't think that changes anything. Some EAs are dishonest crooks - I've personally experienced this, it seems like OP has experienced this. I don't think it's nearly as uncommon as you would assert, but neither of us have any numbers to back up our claims.

I will fall back on the fairly safe assumption that any under-regulated industry will rapidly diverge from ethical practice when there is a strong profit motivation and very little risk of any downside.

EstateAgent

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

Fair enough, I wasn't trying to selectively quote, so I've added it in. I don't think that changes anything. Some EAs are dishonest crooks - I've personally experienced this, it seems like OP has experienced this. I don't think it's nearly as uncommon as you would assert, but neither of us have any numbers to back up our claims.

I will fall back on the fairly safe assumption that any under-regulated industry will rapidly diverge from ethical practice when there is a strong profit motivation and very little risk of any downside.

I see where you're coming from and to be fair to anyone with suspicions I understand the process is a bit 'cloak and dagger'. So I guess it's understandable that suspicions will arise.

I guess I'm just speaking from experience that I've honestly never seen it happen. So I just have to disagree that in the OP's situation this is almost certainly a fictitious bid.

Just on the strong profit motivation point - getting an extra €10k in a sale will likely result in a fee increase of €100 to €150. If it's an employee agent handling the sale he/she will probably get around a 10% cut of this. So you're talking an extra €10-€15 in his/her paycheck, which after tax will buy them a coffee and a scone

An agent should be motivated to get the best price for their client as that's what they're there to do. If any of these idiots are using fake bids to get that price I sincerely hope they are found out and prosecuted.

Anyways we'll have to agree to disagree - as you say neither of us has hard facts to back us up. Most EA's are just out there earning a living and doing their best - I suppose it's natural though to feel some resentment towards them as they are on the other end of the biggest transaction of your life.

Prezatch

Submitted my next bid subject to confirmation of the previous bid. Will see how we go!

silver2020

Prezatch wrote: »

Submitted my next bid subject to confirmation of the previous bid. Will see how we go!

be careful. EA may put you down as "troublesome" and advise the seller that while you may bid better, that another lower bid is probably the better bid.

I moved house several times and always tried to be as friendly as possible to the EA and come across as someone very easy to deal with. I got out bid on two occasions, but got the property on both occasions too. I ended up meeting one of those two people and he was a little aggressive towards me when i was moving in - he had a very poor attitude and was a rather sore loser.

EstateAgent

silver2020 wrote: »

be careful. EA may put you down as "troublesome" and advise the seller that while you may bid better, that another lower bid is probably the better bid.

I moved house several times and always tried to be as friendly as possible to the EA and come across as someone very easy to deal with. I got out bid on two occasions, but got the property on both occasions too. I ended up meeting one of those two people and he was a little aggressive towards me when i was moving in - he had a very poor attitude and was a rather sore loser.

That's actually very good advice. An EA will often advise a client to go with a safer bet if they feel the other bidder has acted aggressive or confrontational throughout. There are a lot of hurdles to jump during any sale agreed process so it's good to have a reasonable buyer rather than someone you feel will pull out at the first sign of an issue.

Most of the time it's just highest bid wins but in competitive bidding situations where the isn't a huge difference in bids the EA's opinion of you comes in to play.

Best of luck with it OP!

JohnnyChimpo

EstateAgent wrote: »

Just on the strong profit motivation point - getting an extra €10k in a sale will likely result in a fee increase of €100 to €150. If it's an employee agent handling the sale he/she will probably get around a 10% cut of this. So you're talking an extra €10-€15 in his/her paycheck, which after tax will buy them a coffee and a scone

This is the argument you see in the original Freakonomics book as well IIRC, but I suppose the counterargument is the profit motivation is less the tenner in your pocket, more the reputation for getting a good price for your clients, and expediting sales so you can move on to the next commission.

Again, it's only a question of the extent of this practice that I think we disagree on. I would never ascribe this behaviour to a majority of EAs, but I definitely believe it's prevalent enough that we need to strongly advocate for a more transparent open-source bidding process which is legally mandated. I don't really believe there's any strong argument against that, information asymmetry only benefits the intermediaries, not the general public.

silver2020

silver2020 wrote: »

be careful. EA may put you down as "troublesome" and advise the seller that while you may bid better, that another lower bid is probably the better bid.

I moved house several times and always tried to be as friendly as possible to the EA and come across as someone very easy to deal with. I got out bid on two occasions, but got the property on both occasions too. I ended up meeting one of those two people and he was a little aggressive towards me when i was moving in - he had a very poor attitude and was a rather sore loser.

I think it says a lot about the industry when you could be considered 'troublesome' for asking for email confirmation of a latest bid in a process involving hundreds and thousands of euro, and one that is likely the biggest of a person's life. Some EA's like to play God and can be precious beyond belief, using every trick in the book to bamboozle and divert people.

JohnnyChimpo

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

This is the argument you see in the original Freakonomics book as well IIRC, but I suppose the counterargument is the profit motivation is less the tenner in your pocket, more the reputation for getting a good price for your clients, and expediting sales so you can move on to the next commission.

Exactly. There's a lot more to be gained from getting a better price for a house than the extra bit of commission, which is always the same defence proferred by EAs on here. People watch the market and know the EAs that are getting the better prices for properties.

EstateAgent

Ok that's true - achieving higher prices should help you get the next property to sell.

Putting my morals to one side though - if I decided to regularly fabricate offers it would make putting a deal together so much harder. There's nothing worse than at the end of a 'bidding war' the top bidder decides not to proceed with the purchase and you have to ring the under bidder. You can imagine that suspicions go through the roof with them and from my experience it can be very hard to get them to stand over their previous offer. It's a mess and a situation you really want to avoid as a seller. However if I'm creating phantom bids regularly it's a mess that I'll find myself in all the time.

The best EA's will know how to get the best price for the client using actual negotiation skills. Obviously when there's a bidding war a monkey could nearly take bid after bid and watch the price rise but when there's one interested party in a property (which by the looks of it you all seem to think is the case for all properties) a good EA should be able to negotiate a higher price for their client.

ebayissues

How much do Estate agent get paid. if it 1% of sales pricce, does 5k or 10k make much difference?


If I was an agent, I'd like to inrease volumnes of houses sold than mere 5k/10k.

boombang

silver2020 wrote: »

be careful. EA may put you down as "troublesome" and advise the seller that while you may bid better, that another lower bid is probably the better bid.

I always try to be very polite and easy to deal with, but if asking for the bid in writing is seen as trouble, then I think you're not the problem. If an estate agent sees that as trouble making, then they're very unsympathetic to the understandable concerns of buyers.

I think the OP has played it well in saying their next bus is subject to confirmation.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it says a lot about the industry when you could be considered 'troublesome' for asking for email confirmation of a latest bid in a process involving hundreds and thousands of euro, and one that is likely the biggest of a person's life. Some EA's like to play God and can be precious beyond belief, using every trick in the book to bamboozle and divert people.

If I hired a EA I would want them using every trick in the book , every card up their sleeve bar doing anything illegal if they were selling my house , that's their job.

boombang

fliball123 wrote: »

If I hired a EA I would want them using every trick in the book , every card up their sleeve bar doing anything illegal if they were selling my house , that's their job.

You can expect to lose me as a potential bidder on your property so.

EstateAgent

EstateAgent wrote: »

Ok that's true - achieving higher prices should help you get the next property to sell.

Putting my morals to one side though - if I decided to regularly fabricate offers it would make putting a deal together so much harder. There's nothing worse than at the end of a 'bidding war' the top bidder decides not to proceed with the purchase and you have to ring the under bidder. You can imagine that suspicions go through the roof with them and from my experience it can be very hard to get them to stand over their previous offer. It's a mess and a situation you really want to avoid as a seller. However if I'm creating phantom bids regularly it's a mess that I'll find myself in all the time.

The best EA's will know how to get the best price for the client using actual negotiation skills. Obviously when there's a bidding war a monkey could nearly take bid after bid and watch the price rise but when there's one interested party in a property (which by the looks of it you all seem to think is the case for all properties) a good EA should be able to negotiate a higher price for their client.

I actually believe you when you say that 'phantom' bids are not common practice. My only gripe is when I hear people - mostly EAs - making the argument that the only thing they have to gain from it is a tiny bit of extra commission, which is rubbish.

fliball123

boombang wrote: »

You can expect to lose me as a potential bidder on your property so.

So what. The buyer does not pay the EA the seller does and its their job to get the right people and the right price for the sellers property if that means treading on one or two buyers toes so be it

Browney7

EstateAgent wrote: »

Ok that's true - achieving higher prices should help you get the next property to sell.

Putting my morals to one side though - if I decided to regularly fabricate offers it would make putting a deal together so much harder. There's nothing worse than at the end of a 'bidding war' the top bidder decides not to proceed with the purchase and you have to ring the under bidder. You can imagine that suspicions go through the roof with them and from my experience it can be very hard to get them to stand over their previous offer. It's a mess and a situation you really want to avoid as a seller. However if I'm creating phantom bids regularly it's a mess that I'll find myself in all the time.

The best EA's will know how to get the best price for the client using actual negotiation skills. Obviously when there's a bidding war a monkey could nearly take bid after bid and watch the price rise but when there's one interested party in a property (which by the looks of it you all seem to think is the case for all properties) a good EA should be able to negotiate a higher price for their client.

The underbidder would be dead right in this instance to not stand over their last offer - if they were "beaten" by a 400k bid that didn't go through and their underbid was 395k, how are they to know the bid at 390k and 380k (assuming jumps in increments of 5k) would have gone through either. You're right though, it would be a mess for the EA.

It does seem fishy they won't put it in writing via email - it would take max twenty seconds to write a one line email on phone and send - but you are right that Ea's could get indignant at having their "honour" questioned.

Any legitimate professional should be willing to have a verifiable audit trail of their work.

Prezatch

Maybe I just caught them at a bad time previously, but EA has had a change of heart now and confirmed 2 previous offers via email that went in after my initial. Got a nice polite email so we're all good.

TheSheriff

From our own personal experience of house hunting the past five months in around castleknock/coolmine, I would echo the advice to trust NOTHING which an estate agent says.

We've had one property in particular where every tactic was used to try to get a higher price out of us. We had offered below asking on a property, house on the market several months, no other bids.

We had a family member view the property for us and not identify their connection. They were told by the EA there were no bids on the property ...... We then got a phone call that day saying the house had been viewed by an interested party and they were planning on offering asking (this was our relative, they weren't and made it clear on the day they weren't interested).

We walked away from the games. House is still for sale.

Hopefully in the next number of years technology progresses to remove the need for EAs in their entirety.

LuckyLloyd

Yeah Estate Agents are quite the bunch of chancers. Just remind yourself that as a buyer you have the power. Offer your money, request things in writing and walk away when it’s not right. There’s a drop in house prices coming across the board anyway so make your bids and tolerance levels for nonsense lower than normal.

fliball123

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah Estate Agents are quite the bunch of chancers. Just remind yourself that as a buyer you have the power. Offer your money, request things in writing and walk away when it’s not right. There’s a drop in house prices coming across the board anyway so make your bids and tolerance levels for nonsense lower than normal.

Have you any evidence to back that up?? first 2 months of the year prices seem to have increased? Stock seems to have got more scarce? supply vs demand

LuckyLloyd

fliball123 wrote: »

Have you any evidence to back that up?? first 2 months of the year prices seem to have increased? Stock seems to have got more scarce? supply vs demand

Demand. It will be all about demand.

fliball123

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Demand. It will be all about demand.

And how is such a high demand going to disappear over night?

LuckyLloyd

fliball123 wrote: »

And how is such a high demand going to disappear over night?

Catch a news bulletin. But to discuss further is off topic for this thread.