Is it fair to mix social housing with privately owned homes?

Castlekeeper

For all its advantages, urbanisation brings out some of the worst social traits in people as can be seen in thus thread. A lot to be said for a good mix of people from all walks of life who just get on with it and pull together in a community. Rich house, poor house, old, new, big job, little job, no job, just stop looking in mirror.

suicide_circus

the problem is we're all carrot and no stick.

by all means the state should fulfil its part of the social contract; house people, give them cash, various allowances. but there has to be give and take. what happens when those who live off the state dont do there part?dont pay their meagre rent (out of the aforementioned cash)? make life miserable for their neighbours? i have neighbours who burn household waste on the street, a normal residential street. the council come up and clear the smouldering nappies away. absolutely no consequences for these people. my driveway is forever filled with mcdonalds packaging blown by the wind. groups of feral youths stalk the area daring at you to look at them sideways.

We eventually got a mortgage in this "mixed" neighbourhood. if and when we are financially ready to have kids, my children will have to navigate charred baby faeces on their way to school. but no one gives two f*cks about that side of the equation. sure amnt i lucky to have a house?

Dorakman

BanditLuke wrote: »

Maybe we should put stars of david on them just to be sure.

In fairness you can spot them a mile away.

Mad_maxx

Padre_Pio wrote: »

It's a proven concept that integrating social housing leads to better outcomes for disadvantaged children.

If all your friends are doing well at school and going to college, you're more likely to do the same.

Where is "it proven" apart from in the books adorning sociology lecture halls?

SEPT 23 1989

If people are lucky enough to get a house in a mixed area they should be vetted within in inch of their lives

they should need to have some sort of employment and no criminal record

any messing once in the house and they should be turfed out immediately

piplip87

Social Houses in a mixed development should be made available to those who work but cannot get on the on the housing ladder, people who genuinely cannot work due to a disability.

Nobody would mind giving a leg up to those who genuinely try to get out to work but cannot buy or struggle with high rents. Whereas those permanent jobseekers would have no respect for the place as can be seen in many estates throughout the country

twowheelsonly

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Firstly it doesnt include those unable to work (direct provision) secondly this is the first time ive seen anyone throw travellers under the bus to defend those who have no interest in working .

“Not all of them want a house” what kind of statement is that, ofcourse they do

Travellers would make up a large, and disproportionate, amount of your original figure. That's not throwing them under any bus, it's just a simple fact. They're a huge part of the problem, simple as.


You might want to do your research on the second part.. To qualify for HAP /Rent Assistance you have to be assessed and passed to qualify for social housing supports. Loads (and I really mean loads....) of these people, on HAP or whatever, are already in a house or a flat that they're more than happy to stay in for the rest of their lives if necessary. They don't particularly want to take up that offer of a kip in the middle of some run-down estate - if they were to ever get an actual offer in the first place. Technically they have a place and are being looked after but are never taken off the housing list as to do so would disqualify them from the rent assistance. They tend to be at the end of lists in any case as once HAP /Rent is being paid then they're not considered a priority case any more. Loads of these people (probably close enough to the majority in fact) would be in the 'employed' category BTW, just not earning enough to pay exorbitant rents or to save enough for a mortgage at the present time.

Hoboo

BanditLuke wrote: »

Maybe we should put stars of david on them just to be sure.

Or grey tracksuit bottoms on the lads and pyjamas or "housecoats" on the girls.

Wait a minute.......

Idbatterim

They aren’t far off putting euro signs on workers heads here. A reminder to all, that they can always be tapped for more ...

ancapailldorcha

I don't get this concept of social housing as forever homes for the perpetually umemployed. Surely, social housing should be for working people on the lower end of the pay scale as well so they're not spending huge chunks of their paychecks on rent?

Mantis Toboggan

I paid 350K for my house, I'll be 70 when I've finally paid off the mortgage.

4 doors down are the socials who pay 45 euros a week. They all drive more expensive cars that me. Simply not fair. Thank you FFG.

Pixel Eater

Social housing is a broken, dysfunctional system but it could be reformed simply enough.
Charge 20% as opposed 15% of income with a minimum of around €60 p/w. I'd even suggest not charging the 20% threshold until over minimum wage as this would incentivise people to get low paid or part-time work. Maybe a surcharge for newer, larger houses too.
Also raise the threshold of earnings for people to qualify, even up to 50k per annum and prioritise people who are working.

mariaalice

Why is this such a problem in Ireland and then only in some parts of Ireland? There are mixed social affordable and private development in lot of European countries and they don't get this reaction.

mariaalice

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I paid 350K for my house, I'll be 70 when I've finally paid off the mortgage.

4 doors down are the socials who pay 45 euros a week. They all drive more expensive cars that me. Simply not fair. Thank you FFG.

You are buying and they are renting rent is related to income.

Pixel Eater

mariaalice wrote: »

Why is this such a problem in Ireland and then only in some parts of Ireland? There are mixed social affordable and private development in lot of European countries and they don't get this reaction.

I assume they would charge more and have a lot less tolerance for anti-social behaviour and non-payment of rent.

mariaalice

Pixel Eater wrote: »

I assume they would charge more and have a lot less tolerance for anti-social behavior and non-payment of rent.

Which means the management of it is badly run, not that there is anything inherently wrong with a mixed system and for a lot of the posters that is their issue, a but a not-insignificant amount fo posters do not want evey well run social housing mixed with private housing that is my point.

KrustyUCC

Sure nothing wrong a properly functioning mixed system

Ireland is not that

There is an estate up the road from me

The council bought 50% for social housing

Those houses retailed for over €265,000 if bought new

The amount of anti social behaviour is unreal from the council tenants

Many of whom don't pay their rent but Cork City Council can't evict them

Free house when others are paying mortgages and having to do without

of course that is going to be resented strongly

mariaalice

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Sure nothing wrong a properly functioning mixed system

Ireland is not that

There is an estate up the road from me

The council bought 50% for social housing

Those houses retailed for over €265,000 if bought new

The amount of anti social behaviour is unreal from the council tenants

Many of whom don't pay their rent but Cork City Council can't evict them

Free house when others are paying mortgages and having to do without

of course that is going to be resented strongly

Why cant they be evicted?

Eric Cartman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't get this concept of social housing as forever homes for the perpetually umemployed. Surely, social housing should be for working people on the lower end of the pay scale as well so they're not spending huge chunks of their paychecks on rent?

Which it used to he and people who grew up in the 60s/70s likely remember, drugs and the rise of single parents and the giveaway budgets of the haughey days turned it into a giant white elephant burdening the tax payer and the legal system and producing ever poorer results with succeeding generations

KrustyUCC

mariaalice wrote: »

Why cant they be evicted?

Judges are very reluctant to evict anybody in this country not to mind those in social housing

They won't evict people into homelessness even though it's their own fault for not even paying the miniature amount of rent

One family I know of in that estate have a 201 C car yet are behind in their rent

laughable

Pixel Eater

mariaalice wrote: »

Which means the management of it is badly run, not that there is anything inherently wrong with a mixed system and for a lot of the posters that is their issue, a but a not-insignificant amount fo posters do not want evey well run social housing mixed with private housing that is my point.

I agree, there is nothing inherently wrong with mixed housing but since the current social housing model here is inherently dysfunctional, the concept is probably unworkable in it's current form.

mariaalice wrote: »

Why cant they be evicted?

They could be but that presents the problem of where to place them. Plus I'd say they just don't have balls to do it anyhow.

nthclare

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Judges are very reluctant to evict anybody in this country not to mind those in social housing

They won't evict people into homelessness even though it's their own fault for not even paying the miniature amount of rent

One family I know of in that estate have a 201 C car yet are behind in their rent

laughable

They're definitely not going to Italy anytime soon that's for sure.

There's a similar family near me too, and they boast in the local that they haven't paid a cent on their mortgage since 2013

Floppybits

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Judges are very reluctant to evict anybody in this country not to mind those in social housing

They won't evict people into homelessness even though it's their own fault for not even paying the miniature amount of rent

One family I know of in that estate have a 201 C car yet are behind in their rent

laughable

They should take the car and they either pay the arrears and get the car back or the car is sold to pay the arrears.

Time to get tough on this and if they can be evicted the take their stuff in lieu of payment. Also for anti social behaviour keep upping the rent until it stops.

Alun

mariaalice wrote: »

Why is this such a problem in Ireland and then only in some parts of Ireland? There are mixed social affordable and private development in lot of European countries and they don't get this reaction.

Possibly because of the way it's done here largely I think.

When I lived in the Netherlands, I lived in a newly developed town which was planned from the very beginning to have a mix of every kind of housing imaginable, all jumbled up together. Detached/semi-detached/terraces/apartments, private/subsidised/social etc. with no more than 10-15 identical houses in the whole area. Every street was different.

So, for example in my case, the semi-detached subsidised housing on one side of the street was different (not as fancy but still perfectly OK) to the privately owned detached houses on the other side of the street, so you didn't have that problem of people getting exactly the same house for less than others who had paid full whack for it.

AulWan

mariaalice wrote: »

Why is this such a problem in Ireland and then only in some parts of Ireland? There are mixed social affordable and private development in lot of European countries and they don't get this reaction.

Begrudgery.

KrustyUCC

Alun wrote: »

Possibly because of the way it's done here largely I think.

When I lived in the Netherlands, I lived in a newly developed town which was planned from the very beginning to have a mix of every kind of housing imaginable, all jumbled up together. Detached/semi-detached/terraces/apartments, private/subsidised/social etc. with no more than 10-15 identical houses in the whole area. Every street was different.

So, for example in my case, the semi-detached subsidised housing on one side of the street was different (not as fancy but still perfectly OK) to the privately owned detached houses on the other side of the street, so you didn't have that problem of people getting exactly the same house for less than others who had paid full whack for it.

Now that seems a good way of doing things

KrustyUCC

Floppybits wrote: »

They should take the car and they either pay the arrears and get the car back or the car is sold to pay the arrears.

Time to get tough on this and if they can be evicted the take their stuff in lieu of payment. Also for anti social behaviour keep upping the rent until it stops.

That would be a sensible way of doing things but this is Ireland

can imagine the outcry when they couldn't bring the kids to school etc with no car even though it would be entirely their own fault

Graces7

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I paid 350K for my house, I'll be 70 when I've finally paid off the mortgage.

4 doors down are the socials who pay 45 euros a week. They all drive more expensive cars that me. Simply not fair. Thank you FFG.

They are not depriving you of anything. You have a house, a car.

Eric Cartman

Graces7 wrote: »

They are not depriving you of anything. You have a house, a car.

Except the funds from the tax he paid that could be used to add services or improvements to his local area, or not collected at the 50% marginal rate at all and could be used for investment or home improvements are going to pay for that social house to keep another family nearby.

AulWan

AulWan wrote: »

Begrudgery.

Culture. Different nationalities behave differently...

I'll give you an example. Public facilities. I was amazed when I moved to Oz twenty years ago to find that there were BBQ facilities in all the parks (Brisbane), and none of them were vandalized. The people kept the areas clean, and while there was some graffiti around, there was extremely little vandalism. Just prior to when I left for Oz, in my hometown, they opened a kids playing area down by the river, which was vandalized within three hours of it being made available to the public.

There is such a thing as national character, and culture does play a role in behavior. There are pluses and minuses to every country.. but they tend to be different depending on where you are.