Coronavirus

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Interesting article in the NY Times about Europe's second wave. We're one of the few countries that haven't had a higher death rate than the first wave.

I know it's still been tough on everyone but it could have been a lot worse.

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1334938561221685253?s=20

NIMAN

ednwireland wrote: »

totally agree i cant see why the reluctance to call out where cases are really coming form (apart form that with 2 days track and trace they probably don't really know, the ones they do manage to track appear to be outliers.

and lets be honest whose going to tell track and trace they've been at several parties etc

The government and NPHET has all the data and all the stats, we should be able to go online and see where the outbreaks are, what is causing the spread in numbers, is it schools, restaurants, homes, work places etc. Why hide the data?

Name and shame.

As for inishowen, to be honest I would agree with a guy a heard on the radio the other day. We had Level5 in name only. The place was going on as normal. Probably not just here but country wide. Places were open that weren't essential. The supermarkets are jammed, there should have been limiting of numbers allowed it, but when there's money to be made, why stop shoppers spending!

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

The government and NPHET has all the data and all the stats, we should be able to go online and see where the outbreaks are, what is causing the spread in numbers, is it schools, restaurants, homes, work places etc. Why find the data.

This. Also, details of cases were originally posted by DED.
I thought it was excellent. People knew whether there was an outbreak in their immediate area, and I genuinely believe it had an effect on peoples behavior.

Fair enough, there will be some who will ignore it - but others, whose guard may have slipped over time, might be more careful. As the slogan goes, every little helps.

There is nothing that will feed false news faster than lack of real news, imo. And, God knows, people are sick of lack of social contact - I know I am - so, anything that will encourage even some of them them to observe the guidelines has to be a good thing.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

NPHET and local doctors have been very specific about where outbreaks have been coming from. I'm not sure what more people want? Once again nearly all the Donegal LEAs are the worst in the country for 14 day incidence rates, so it's safe to assume it's in your local area.

Bit of common sense when going/doing anything is all that's needed.

muffler

I cant say too much here as I dont want to identify anyone but a family member went back to work today which involves having to "interact" with members of the public. Having pointed out to the boss that a lot of them werent wearing masks and asked if they should be requested to do so he says something along the lines of "they probably wouldnt listen to us anyway so just ignore it" :eek:

Thats the type of attitude that we are all aware of where money becomes more important than health

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

NPHET and local doctors have been very specific about where outbreaks have been coming from. I'm not sure what more people want? Once again nearly all the Donegal LEAs are the worst in the country for 14 day incidence rates, so it's safe to assume it's in your local area.

Bit of common sense when going/doing anything is all that's needed.

Clearly, some people are not inclined to use common sense. So, for those who might be susceptible to changing their behaviour, the knowledge that there are cases in their immediate area could just be enough to prevent them from accepting that party invitation, or whatever.

More information certainly won't hurt anyone, and if it helps save a few lives, then, that's surely a good thing.

I've had normally sensible people argue with me that there were no cases in Letterkenny hospital, when I knew for a fact that there were 5 cases being treated at the time.
As I said, lack of factual information leads to conjecture, then, wild theories.
If the facts are available, then there is less room for conspiracy theorists...

muffler

Deleted User wrote: »

I've had normally sensible people argue with me that there were no cases in Letterkenny hospital, when I knew for a fact that there were 5 cases being treated at the time.

Just picking up on this point ... or a very similar point. Sean Murphy (LUH manager) was on Highland Radio during the week and refused to state how many staff were off with Covid. This wasnt the first time that he has refused to depart with this info. However later that day Saolta confirmed the numbers (apparently) so it begs the question - what is Mr Murphy hiding?

NIMAN

Altnagelvin published their figures, something like 337 off with Covid or isolating.

It's no shame to have caught covid, or so they keep telling us, so why not tell the public how many hospital staff are off work?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Clearly, some people are not inclined to use common sense. So, for those who might be susceptible to changing their behaviour, the knowledge that there are cases in their immediate area could just be enough to prevent them from accepting that party invitation, or whatever.

This thing has been going on for 9/10 months now. And it's far worse in Donegal the second time around. If people haven't changed their behaviour by now they're not going to.

Moragle

muffler wrote: »

I cant say too much here as I dont want to identify anyone but a family member went back to work today which involves having to "interact" with members of the public. Having pointed out to the boss that a lot of them werent wearing masks and asked if they should be requested to do so he says something along the lines of "they probably wouldnt listen to us anyway so just ignore it" :eek:

Thats the type of attitude that we are all aware of where money becomes more important than health

If that is true which I doubt leave the job

malinheader

Moragle wrote: »

If that is true which I doubt leave the job

Why would you doubt that this is true.
I have seen plenty of people in shops not wearing masks.
And there is plenty of people who would loved to be challenged to cause a scene or as was stated just ignore the request.

Nollog

The other day up at tkmaxx a woman was stopped before she left for not wearing the mask over her nose and she went ballistic on the poor woman on the floor on minimum wage. A manager came over and soon after a security guard.
The woman says something to the tune of "I have everything I came for anyway" as she leaves.

Lots of 20 something's yesterday nose-poking out of their masks filling trolleys with alcohol.

It feels like we've lost the battle and it's not even the Christmas free for all yet.

JoannieG

I love TK Maxx but I left it on Thursday morning because of the behaviour of customers. The girls on the doors were doing their job, restricting the numbers in the shop, but once inside the customers didn't give a damn. Coming really close to you when you were looking at something, reaching over you to get something off a shelf, etc. I'm afraid all shopping, except for groceries, is off limits for me for the foreseeable future.

muffler

Moragle wrote: »

If that is true which I doubt leave the job

Im not really bothered whether you believe it or not.

muffler

Just another little example that shows how Covid is possibly being transmitted in the community. After an elderly person passed away (non Covid) several weeks ago the obituary notices were up on Highland and the RIP.ie website with the now regulatory notice about the wake and funeral being strictly private for family only. However the family took to Facebook and announced that everyone was welcome.

I have a mate who lives a short distance from the wake house and he was telling me that it was unbelievable the number of people who turned up and there were more people without masks than wearing them.

Situations like this were well highlighted by various doctors in the county particularly the Finn Valley area but unfortunately people arent heeding the advice. Wakes, funerals and parties of all descriptions are the most dangerous of places to be in relation to the spread of Covid yet some people persist in attending these gatherings.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

This thing has been going on for 9/10 months now. And it's far worse in Donegal the second time around. If people haven't changed their behaviour by now they're not going to.

The point is, I think they have changed their behaviour.
Compliance was excellent in the early stages, leading to zero cases for several weeks.
That has changed, for a variety of reasons, I suspect, so further impetus is now needed.

Can I ask why you seem to be so against all of the facts being made freely available? (While protecting patient confidentiality, obviously)

Moragle wrote: »

If that is true which I doubt leave the job

Why on earth would you even post that? That's a shockingly rude attempt to cast doubt on the word of someone that you have no reason to doubt!

muffler

muffler wrote: »

Just picking up on this point ... or a very similar point. Sean Murphy (LUH manager) was on Highland Radio during the week and refused to state how many staff were off with Covid. This wasnt the first time that he has refused to depart with this info. However later that day Saolta confirmed the numbers (apparently) so it begs the question - what is Mr Murphy hiding?

If even half of what I hear from sources inside the hospital is true, the answer is an awful lot.

I'm not going to post allegations about the hospital here without proof, but the fact that the manager refuses to answer questions is more than a little surprising - particularly given the number of public rants on social media lately.
It doesn't exactly help people have faith in the system...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can I ask why you seem to be so against all of the facts being made freely available? (While protecting patient confidentiality, obviously)

I'm not against any facts being released. I simply don't understand the need from people like yourself to keep calling for more specifics when local doctors are already being very specific about how it's spreading. Being more detailed (beyond LEAs) about where the cases are is more likely to lead to people being less careful than more careful. In a county like Donegal there's very few people who live, work and socialise entirely within the confines of their local town or village. Knowing it's present in high numbers in your LEA should be more than specific enough for people to be making sure they abide by regulations that have been in place since March.

echo beach

muffler wrote: »

Just another little example that shows how Covid is possibly being transmitted in the community. After an elderly person passed away (non Covid) several weeks ago the obituary notices were up on Highland and the RIP.ie website with the now regulatory notice about the wake and funeral being strictly private for family only. However the family took to Facebook and announced that everyone was welcome.
.

I’ve seen that more than once and it does put pressure on friends and neighbours to attend. It is one thing to turn down a party invite but turning away from the tradition of sympathising in person and by shaking hands is tougher.
Nobody wants to offend the bereaved at a sensitive time but clergy and undertakers do have responsibilities.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm not against any facts being released. I simply don't understand the need from people like yourself to keep calling for more specifics when local doctors are already being very specific about how it's spreading. Being more detailed (beyond LEAs) about where the cases are is more likely to lead to people being less careful than more careful. In a county like Donegal there's very few people who live, work and socialise entirely within the confines of their local town or village. Knowing it's present in high numbers in your LEA should be more than specific enough for people to be making sure they abide by regulations that have been in place since March.

Should - but clearly isn't.

Are you aware that public health cannot inform a school principal when a pupil tests positive without parental consent? Further, without that consent, a public health assessment is not carried out by the HSE, thereby creating the potential for uncontrolled spread, as happened in a school in Cork recently...

There are a surprising number of what I would describe as serious flaws in the system. In a vast County like Donegal, saying there were 20 cases - which might be an outbreak 60 miles away - is water off a ducks back.
Information given by LEA on a fortnightly basis does absolutely nothing to alert people to newly emerging high risk areas.

People are tired of restrictions. Its obvious that some have dropped their guard. There's nothing quite like a local, immediate threat to focus minds..

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

[Deleted User] wrote: »

People are tired of restrictions. Its obvious that some have dropped their guard. There's nothing quite like a local, immediate threat to focus minds..

I'm sorry but I don't know how much more of a local and immediate threat people want than practically every single LEA being on the worst in the country list. It's in your area, it's still spreading in the same way it was 3 months ago, 6 months ago, 10 months ago. The advice to individuals is still the same as it was 10 months ago. If people aren't following that with 2000+ people dead and the daily numbers in the county being pretty much the same as they were 10 weeks ago when we were first put into level 3, then knowing the names and addresses of who has it isn't going to make a difference to them.

Xtrail14

There should be measuring tapes sent to each house hold so one knows what two metres is as I feel Donegal will be up in the tits again after Christmas.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

. knowing the names and addresses of who has it isn't going to make a difference to them.

Who said anything about names and addresses?

A current list, using DEDs, as originally used, would suffice...

If it was possible to provide information by DED when daily case rates were much higher, its certainly possible now.

Btw, my own LEA does not have one of the highest case rates in the Country. My local GP has not said a word, publicly, about the virus.
A doctor in a border area, 70 -80 mins away talking about cross border traffic is almost entirely irrelevant here.

Yet, when there was a know n case in the local school, compliance rates rose dramatically in the immediate area, because people could no longer pretend the threat was somewhere else...

muffler

A little geography or political geography on a Sunday morning is good

Most of you are probably aware how the county is set up in relation to Electoral Areas (EA's and sometimes referred to as LEA's) but for the benefit of anyone who doesn't know the set up I'll explain this in a wee bit more detail.

The county is divided up into 7 Electoral Areas - Buncrana, Carndonagh, Donegal, Glenties, Leterkenny, Lifford/Stranorlar and Milford. Each EA in turn is made up of a number of DED's (District Electoral Divisions). Then the DED's are made up of Townlands. The number of townlands in a DED varies and likewise the number of DEDs in an EA also varies.

So going from smallest to largest (population/land area) you have Townlands, DEDs, EAs. There is a very good map published by Donegal County Council which explains/shows all this in great detail. You can zoom in a bit and when you click or tap on a specific point it will show the townland, DED and EA in a little pop up window.

muffler

I posted the above to help anyone who isnt familiar with the layouts around the county but also to help reinforce a point Im going to make in this post.

For several months the CSO published a map where we could see 14 day incidence rates based on DEDs which in my opinion was more beneficial that the current offering of figures based on EAs. When the CSO changed this they cited "data protection" as the reason. That is a load of tosh as there is no way on this earth that people can be identified based on the DED in which they are living (or dead)

To me it smacks of "thats too much like hard work having to update it weekly" There can be no other reason that I can think of that can justify their claims about data protection.

I would always want to know how many live cases we have within a 3 - 5 mile radius as it leads me to make more informed choices. As an example, I have to get something out of a chemist and I see the latest Covid numbers for Stranorlar DED are 20 but I then look and see the numbers for Raphoe or Convoy are maybe 2 or 3 cases. I'll make that journey to Convoy or Raphoe so as to avoid potentially high level areas.

Likewise my work can take me all over the place but if I knew the DED figures were high in a specific DED and I was asked to do a job there then I would just refuse.

So Im very much in the camp of wanting to know what is going on in my local area and not just an area that can span for 20 - 30 miles. Why are we not being given this info I wonder?

dinorebel

Queue at the Letterkenny testing center is out to the road.

muffler

muffler wrote: »

I posted the above to help anyone who isnt familiar with the layouts around the county but also to help reinforce a point Im going to make in this post.

For several months the CSO published a map where we could see 14 day incidence rates based on DEDs which in my opinion was more beneficial that the current offering of figures based on EAs. When the CSO changed this they cited "data protection" as the reason. That is a load of tosh as there is no way on this earth that people can be identified based on the DED in which they are living (or dead)

To me it smacks of "thats too much like hard work having to update it weekly" There can be no other reason that I can think of that can justify their claims about data protection.

I would always want to know how many live cases we have within a 3 - 5 mile radius as it leads me to make more informed choices. As an example, I have to get something out of a chemist and I see the latest Covid numbers for Stranorlar DED are 20 but I then look and see the numbers for Raphoe or Convoy are maybe 2 or 3 cases. I'll make that journey to Convoy or Raphoe so as to avoid potentially high level areas.

Likewise my work can take me all over the place but if I knew the DED figures were high in a specific DED and I was asked to do a job there then I would just refuse.

So Im very much in the camp of wanting to know what is going on in my local area and not just an area that can span for 20 - 30 miles. Why are we not being given this info I wonder?

Well said, Muffler

retalivity

^from a data visualisation pov, there is nothing stoppimg the cases being mapped by EA, ded, townland, or whatever, as I am sure that it is being collected at that level, as well as having other demographic information. All that has to be changed are the map overlays. If it ia due to 'we cant be bothered' then it is extreme laziness, but i would guess its down to political pressure to keep it as vague as possible. Or to have the lowest level of data publically available, general enough to avoid reporting of large spikes/hotspots.

ednwireland

muffler wrote: »

I posted the above to help anyone who isnt familiar with the layouts around the county but also to help reinforce a point Im going to make in this post.

For several months the CSO published a map where we could see 14 day incidence rates based on DEDs which in my opinion was more beneficial that the current offering of figures based on EAs. When the CSO changed this they cited "data protection" as the reason. That is a load of tosh as there is no way on this earth that people can be identified based on the DED in which they are living (or dead)

the thing is the arcgis map is only showing 17/11/2020 to 30/11/2020

and is now over a week out of date for anyone to say that meaningful information is being provided so people can decide on the risk of doing something. this is only updated every 2 weeks so im looking at that and think SW Donegal aint so bad (it may or may not be with the numbers in the last 7 days)

fawlty682

Coming in through Dublin airport from Amsterdam 15 days ago.. Did locator form online, however given a form to fill in airport queue. On arriving to desk, handed in the form with the barcode. To my amazement, the official typed my details into the computer? and on I went home without any advice at all. I am working from home so no problem, and no phone call in the 14 days since. And they refuse antigen testing! Any test is better then zero one would think.