Landlord. Hap scheme worth it?

bcoll05

Hi.
I am a landlord of an old 1950s terraced house. Its a 2 bedroom but recently renovated 8 years ago to a good standard.
I have a very good tenant in the house a couple of years now. He recently asked would I be able to join the Hap scheme as he has been granted it.
I dont know much about it.
Any landlords out there?
I want to know is it to much hassle to get set up on the scheme. Is it worth it?
Anyone with an older house like mine find it harder bringing the house up to council standard? Galway area.

Fol20

There is a lot of paperwork and hassle to it.

They’re is a chance that the council may inspect your property in a year or more and if it fails, you need to fix the issues they identify(some of which might cost thousands)

You can’t accept decline HAP especially for a tenant already in your house so your stuck with it.

overkill602

many treads on this in fact done to death hassle sure, might cost and as tenant in place cant refuse on discriminatory ground BS. "up 2 gov 2 house state dependents"
smaller council area might have wriggle room Dublin not

Del2005

You can't refuse HAP but what happens if the landlord does not provide the documents required and the tenant stops paying rent, can the landlord start the eviction process?

overkill602

Del2005 wrote: »

You can't refuse HAP but what happens if the landlord does not provide the documents required and the tenant stops paying rent, can the landlord start the eviction process?

Yes but that when the delinquent tenant protections kick in and delay delay

bcoll05

Thanks everyone.
The only benefit on my side is I never upped the rent in a couple of years because the tenant was so good. Talking to an estate agent yesterday on this subject she said I should be getting 200e more per month. So if I was to join Hap I will increase the rent.
Im more worried about the changes.
- Drilling holes for ventilation even tho the house is breezy enough.
- Wiring the smoke alarms.
- Safety latches on windows.
Has anyone had to go through these changes or what did they make you adjust/change?

Iscreamkone

You will need a Cert from an electrician certifying the safety of the electrics. For an old house this could be expensive, especially with necessary upgrades

bcoll05

Iscreamkone wrote: »

You will need a Cert from an electrician certifying the safety of the electrics. For an old house this could be expensive, especially with necessary upgrades

Ah f##k.
How does an electrician check that? Is it a big job?

JustMe,K

You also need a tax compliance certificate, and once the council have made payments totalling 10k to you, they will stop if you have not provided that cert.

HAP is paid in arrears not in advance like most leases, so the tenant will have to come to some arrangement with you on that unless the council are going to make it up. I don't know if you are in a RPZ, but if so you might not be able to increase the rent by €200 per month.

But as has been said, you don't have much choice. The council might never inspect the property though, but I don't know what happens if they do and you simply tell them you cannot afford to do the works.

JustMe,K

bcoll05 wrote: »

Thanks for all that. That is all new information for me regarding 10k & certs. The cert... what is that? I am employed & the company sort out all my tax so everything is above board. I haven't paid tax tho on the rent. What will I ha e to do there?

No not in rpz at the moment but the estate agent has said to notify the tenant as soon as possible that I am upping the rent because it could be in an rpz area soon.

The tax compliance cert is from Revenue to basically say all your affairs are in order. You can order one online through ROS (or your accountant can). Presumably if you are not paying tax on the rent then you are not declaring the income in your end of year returns, and you don't have the tenancy registered with PRTB? If thats the case I am not sure what your next steps should be.

bcoll05

JustMe,K wrote: »

The tax compliance cert is from Revenue to basically say all your affairs are in order. You can order one online through ROS (or your accountant can). Presumably if you are not paying tax on the rent then you are not declaring the income in your end of year returns, and you don't have the tenancy registered with PRTB? If thats the case I am not sure what your next steps should be.

Thanks justme,k I'll get on to a friend of mine he is an accountant. Probably have to back date it or something.

Del2005

bcoll05 wrote: »

Thanks justme,k I'll get on to a friend of mine he is an accountant. Probably have to back date it or something.

And large interest penalties. The tax is on your PAYE income so 50% of the rent in tax if you are paying the top rate of tax.

This will cost you a fortune in back tax, which you would most likely be caught for anyway, and bringing the property up to current building regulations, not the regulations from when it was built for every other residential property, as IIRC the councils are concentrating on inspecting HAP properties.

the_syco

bcoll05 wrote: »

He recently asked would I be able to join the Hap scheme as he has been granted it.

You are not allowed to say now to HAP. You will get a fine if you say no to HAP. Don't say no to HAP, or you'll get a fine.

bcoll05 wrote: »

No not in rpz at the moment but the estate agent has said to notify the tenant as soon as possible that I am upping the rent because it could be in an rpz area soon.

Up the rent. If the tenant decides to leave, then so be it. Once the area goes RPZ, you'll find it hard clawing back the lost rent.

Del2005

the_syco wrote: »

You are not allowed to say now to HAP. You will get a fine if you say no to HAP. Don't say no to HAP, or you'll get a fine.


Up the rent. If the tenant decides to leave, then so be it. Once the area goes RPZ, you'll find it hard clawing back the lost rent.

Problem is that the OP can't provide the required documents so can't do HAP if they wanted to.

Best option for the OP is to increase the rent so much that the tenant has to leave and hope that Revenue don't catch them.

lcwill

Del2005 wrote: »

Problem is that the OP can't provide the required documents so can't do HAP if they wanted to.

Best option for the OP is to increase the rent so much that the tenant has to leave and hope that Revenue don't catch them.

Then I suggest he just sells the property once it's empty, unless he wants to take being a landlord a bit more seriously and pay taxes.

Always amazed when people come on here openly admitting to not paying tax on rent. How can the revenue not track these people down more easily?

They should be able to work out when a house is occupied by someone who is not the owner, and if the tenancy is not registered and no tax is being paid then it should be red flagged in the system to be checked out.

bcoll05

the_syco & del2005 thanks for your helpful advice.

Its looking like I'll have to join the scheme. I've been looking into some of the alterations that may need to be done to the property & im well able to do them myself or know people that can help me. Paperwork is my downfall.
Thanks again.

godtabh

bcoll05 wrote: »

the_syco & del2005 thanks for your helpful advice.

Its looking like I'll have to join the scheme. I've been looking into some of the alterations that may need to be done to the property & im well able to do them myself or know people that can help me. Paperwork is my downfall.
Thanks again.

I don’t think just the paper work will be your problem

bcoll05

godtabh wrote: »

I don’t think just the paper work will be your problem

How so?

The_Conductor

bcoll05 wrote: »

How so?

You'll have to pay penalties and interest on the undeclared rental income to Revenue (for starters). Also- you will have to bring the property up to current building standards- rather than the standards such as they were when the property was built- in order to pass a HAP inspection (which is being prioritised by local authorities).

A HAP inspection- is a wish list on the part of local authorities- which tends to mirror current building regulations.

So- it would include heating in every 'habitable room'.
Outside ventilation in all habitable rooms.
Safety windows for bedrooms (easily done in all fairness)
Windows and ventilation for bathrooms
Ventilation for cooking

etc etc

In general- the biggest part of this will be having Holemasters out for a day or two drilling ventilation in walls for you- unless you're unlucky enough to have a bathroom without a window, bedroom without a window, non-compliant wiring or plumbing etc etc

It could potentially be quite a bit of work.

First off- ring Revenue, confess that you haven't been declaring your rental income- and take the punishment on the nose.

Claw Hammer

The_Conductor wrote: »

First off- ring Revenue, confess that you haven't been declaring your rental income- and take the punishment on the nose.

Rather than ringing the Revenue, the better course of action would be to get yourself an accountant who was familiar with Revenue arrears cases. There will be able to advise you on how to put your affairs in order and negotiate the best deal with the Revenue for you.

bcoll05

The conductor & claw hammer. Thank you for your useful information. I will take all that on board.

Ya im sourcing an accountant at the moment to discuss the whole situation with & sort something out before I make a decision.

The ventilation... I can do that myself I've a trade background. Thanks tho for the run down on the requirements. That's probably the biggest manual work I can think of.

gibgodsman

As a tenant, ill give my opinion, I wasn't on the Hap for the first 3 years, then went on it, nothing changed, they didnt ask for anything to be installed, only had our HAP inspection last year, 4 years into being on the HAP

All they asked was that a fire blanked and evacuation plan be installed, live in an apartment, the inspector was really nice and doesn't work for the council, they are a 3rd party.

The pros for you are that your will get paid on time and in full without hassle and your tenant will stay for a minimum of 2 years everytime they reapply for the HAP

gibgodsman

Also, just seen you didn't pay any taxes on your rental income for this long? Wow, you are in some serious financial trouble when they catch you, and they 100% will now, good luck mate, I appreciate your honesty on here but you can never cheat the tax man

Graces7

gibgodsman wrote: »

As a tenant, ill give my opinion, I wasn't on the Hap for the first 3 years, then went on it, nothing changed, they didnt ask for anything to be installed, only had our HAP inspection last year, 4 years into being on the HAP

All they asked was that a fire blanked and evacuation plan be installed, live in an apartment, the inspector was really nice and doesn't work for the council, they are a 3rd party.

The pros for you are that your will get paid on time and in full without hassle and your tenant will stay for a minimum of 2 years everytime they reapply for the HAP

Good to have some really positive input

bcoll05

gibgodsman wrote: »

As a tenant, ill give my opinion, I wasn't on the Hap for the first 3 years, then went on it, nothing changed, they didnt ask for anything to be installed, only had our HAP inspection last year, 4 years into being on the HAP

All they asked was that a fire blanked and evacuation plan be installed, live in an apartment, the inspector was really nice and doesn't work for the council, they are a 3rd party.

The pros for you are that your will get paid on time and in full without hassle and your tenant will stay for a minimum of 2 years everytime they reapply for the HAP

Thanks for all that. My house is in great condition & that's all down to my tenant. I want to keep him that's why im on here looking for information on how we can work together so we both are happy.
As for the tax, ya I know something bad is probably going to come up. The taxman is never good news.

The_Conductor

Honesty is the best policy with Revenue. There is an element of discretion associated with their penalties (which can be a multiple of the actual tax due). Don't play games with them- its not worth it. Deal in facts- and be damn sure of your facts.

Del2005

gibgodsman wrote: »

The pros for you are that your will get paid on time and in full without hassle and your tenant will stay for a minimum of 2 years everytime they reapply for the HAP

That's not true. If the tenant doesn't pay their portion to the council the Landlord doesn't get paid and due to data protection laws the landlord can't get any information from the council.

The_Conductor

Del2005 wrote: »

That's not true. If the tenant doesn't pay their portion to the council the Landlord doesn't get paid and due to data protection laws the landlord can't get any information from the council.

Plus its paid in arrears- rather than in advance, like you'd get from any other tenant.

ted1

bcoll05 wrote: »

Thanks for all that. That is all new information for me regarding 10k & certs. The cert... what is that? I am employed & the company sort out all my tax so everything is above board. I haven't paid tax tho on the rent. What will I ha e to do there?

How have you not be declaring the rent received to the taxman. I don’t think you are that niave to think you didn’t have to pay tax.

You may be un for a big penalty.

I’m guessing you are not registered with the RTB? Have you been paying property tax ?

bcoll05

I was living in the house with the tenant. He pretty much had the run of the place as I barely stayed there (living between there & my girlfriend's). So I was told about this hole rent a room thing. I was told I didn't have to pay tax. I got married over Xmas & now he has the property solely to himself. I've properly moved out. We're arranging a proper lease now. He wants to go through Hap.

Del2005

bcoll05 wrote: »

I was living in the house with the tenant. He pretty much had the run of the place as I barely stayed there (living between there & my girlfriend's). So I was told about this hole rent a room thing. I was told I didn't have to pay tax. I got married over Xmas & now he has the property solely to himself. I've properly moved out. We're arranging a proper lease now. He wants to go through Hap.

You might not be that bad then if it was your PPR and you were renting a room, but you'll still need an account as you were supposed to make tax returns for the income.