Football & Coronavirus [READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST - updated 06-05-20]

Skylinehead

DeanAustin wrote: »

People here are living in Disneyland. More clubs will go down this route. English football clubs don’t have massive stockpiles of cash despite the revenue they generate. Their revenue streams have almost completely dried up. Even if players take a 30% pay cut, clubs will still be forking out millions in wages every month.

This situation is not sustainable beyond a few months without clubs borrowing a lot of money or games being played behind closed doors. I know everyone assumes greed when clubs do anything motivated by money and a lot of the time that’s justified but right now, clubs are looking at how they’ll survive in any sort of reasonable shape.

So why aren't they sustaining it for the few months that they can? They're not going to run out of money, and could easily take a loan if necessary (I doubt it). No, let the taxpayer take the hit so we save a few quid.

Disgusting. Liverpool are in absolutely zero danger of going out of business.

Drumpot

DeanAustin wrote: »

People here are living in Disneyland. More clubs will go down this route. English football clubs don’t have massive stockpiles of cash despite the revenue they generate. Their revenue streams have almost completely dried up. Even if players take a 30% pay cut, clubs will still be forking out millions in wages every month.

This situation is not sustainable beyond a few months without clubs borrowing a lot of money or games being played behind closed doors. I know everyone assumes greed when clubs do anything motivated by money and a lot of the time that’s justified but right now, clubs are looking at how they’ll survive in any sort of reasonable shape.

I don’t think people have an issue with clubs cutting costs. But their biggest bill is players wages. Don’t think anybody is living in Disneyland, just calling out bullsh*t when it’s bullsh*t. Premier league clubs will always suit themselves, it’s just you get to see their true faces when revenue is threatened.

ozzy jr

DeanAustin wrote: »

People here are living in Disneyland. More clubs will go down this route. English football clubs don’t have massive stockpiles of cash despite the revenue they generate. Their revenue streams have almost completely dried up. Even if players take a 30% pay cut, clubs will still be forking out millions in wages every month.

This situation is not sustainable beyond a few months without clubs borrowing a lot of money or games being played behind closed doors. I know everyone assumes greed when clubs do anything motivated by money and a lot of the time that’s justified but right now, clubs are looking at how they’ll survive in any sort of reasonable shape.

I think you're the one living in Disneyland.

The PL is a cesspit of greed and has been for many years. This is just another example.

Tottenham, Newcastle and Liverpool so far have shown themselves up. The owners of those 3 clubs could well afford to pay the wages of non playing staff though this crisis, but they choose not too.

John Henry - $2.6b
Mike Ashley -$2.5b
Joe Lewis - $4.7b

Others will follow no doubt.

CSF

It’s a bit weird how economic/political opinions tend to diverge based on which of 2 football clubs you support. My experience of the Irish United fans I knew wasn’t usually that they were ardent socialists. No more or less than the Liverpool ones were capitalist defenders.

Football point scoring from either side over a deadly virus and it’s effects is about as sad loser behaviour as you can get really.

J. Marston

DeanAustin wrote: »

Where should they get the money once the cash runs out?

"Cash runs out." Liverpool. Any top level Premier League club for that matter.

Are you even reading what you type?

DeanAustin

J. Marston wrote: »

"Cash runs out." Liverpool. Any top level Premier League club for that matter.

Are you even reading what you type?

Liverpool have virtually no money coming in. Match day revenue is gone. TV money is gone.

Liverpool pay 2m a week on player wages.

Liverpool have, as per their last accounts, 35 million in cash.

Do the maths.

Harry Palmr

Sure everything is fine.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/04/burnley-warn-of-50m-loss-due-to-suspension-of-english-football

Burnley have underlined the dire financial consequences of the coronavirus crisis on the Premier League by announcing they stand to lose around £50m from the continued suspension of the season.

The club are one of the better-run outfits in England’s top flight and recorded a pre-tax profit for the third consecutive season for the year ending June 2019. Their wage bill of £87m represents 63% of turnover and is among the lowest in the Premier League.

In an unusual move aimed at being “transparent with supporters, staff and stakeholders”, however, Burnley have issued a statement detailing their predicted shortfall from the ongoing suspension of all football activities in England. The Premier League confirmed on Friday that the 2019-20 season “will only return when it is safe and appropriate to do so” and will only be resumed with the full support of the government. Burnley’s estimated losses of £50m, it believes, are half of what other Premier League clubs stand to lose this season.

DeanAustin

Skylinehead wrote: »

So why aren't they sustaining it for the few months that they can? They're not going to run out of money, and could easily take a loan if necessary (I doubt it). No, let the taxpayer take the hit so we save a few quid.

Disgusting. Liverpool are in absolutely zero danger of going out of business.

Because they’re a business taking what, in purely business terms, is a sensible business decision. They are cutting what costs they can now. Aer Lingus and Ryanair did it and I don’t recall this sort of outrage. Why?

I also think there is an element of Liverpool and Spurs trying to put pressure on players to take a pay cut.

Liverpool and Spurs are also two of the clubs who have contributed most to the British exchequer in recent years because they are run at a profit.

I don’t like what’s happening. It’s horrible that the working man/woman is suffering. But everyone has a point of view in this and I can see it. I genuinely believe that the players and the clubs will do the right thing when the dust settles.

DeanAustin

ozzy jr wrote: »

I think you're the one living in Disneyland.

The PL is a cesspit of greed and has been for many years. This is just another example.

Tottenham, Newcastle and Liverpool so far have shown themselves up. The owners of those 3 clubs could well afford to pay the wages of non playing staff though this crisis, but they choose not too.

John Henry - $2.6b
Mike Ashley -$2.5b
Joe Lewis - $4.7b

Others will follow no doubt.

That’s a fair point that I’d broadly agree with but billionaires don’t become billionaires by giving money away and much of the wealth you’ve outlined is probably not sitting in a bank account. Id imagine Ashley’s wealth is calculated on how much Sports Direct is worth and he’s hardly going to sell that business at the moment. Also, Lewis, for example, has never put money into Tottenham.

Disgusting stuff. Really hope other clubs don't follow suit but probably will do.

Tom Mann Centuria

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Disgusting stuff. Really hope other clubs don't follow suit but probably will do.

Yeah, sadly they will, I'd guess the majority or maybe all of them by the time it's done.

Skylinehead

DeanAustin wrote: »

Because they’re a business taking what, in purely business terms, is a sensible business decision. They are cutting what costs they can now. Aer Lingus and Ryanair did it and I don’t recall this sort of outrage. Why?

I also think there is an element of Liverpool and Spurs trying to put pressure on players to take a pay cut.

Liverpool and Spurs are also two of the clubs who have contributed most to the British exchequer in recent years because they are run at a profit.

I don’t like what’s happening. It’s horrible that the working man/woman is suffering. But everyone has a point of view in this and I can see it. I genuinely believe that the players and the clubs will do the right thing when the dust settles.

This is a soccer forum. Gway with the Ryanair stuff to Aviation.

If they're run at a profit, then they're perfectly capable of taking a minor hit in order to keep their low-paid staff on normal wages for a while. Saying "we paid the tax we were expected to pay" is no moral argument.

You really think Liverpool or any other club will do anything but continue to put 80m bids in for players when this is over? You've more faith than I do.

They are taking money off the the British government? Meh, one for the British tax payers to get upset about.

There'll be bigger companies bleeding our own government shortly. More concerned with that
personally as we'll be paying for it.

Amazing the stuff that people take offence to.

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

This is a soccer forum. Gway with the Ryanair stuff to Aviation.

If they're run at a profit, then they're perfectly capable of taking a minor hit in order to keep their low-paid staff on normal wages for a while. Saying "we paid the tax we were expected to pay" is no moral argument.

You really think Liverpool or any other club will do anything but continue to put 80m bids in for players when this is over? You've more faith than I do.

It'll be interesting if transfer fees will decrease. Bound to be less money in the game now after this is over.

Fitz*

6 wrote: »

It'll be interesting if transfer fees will decrease. Bound to be less money in the game now after this is over.

I would think there will be big decreases in transfer fees. Clubs won't have the money.

ziggyman17

DeanAustin wrote: »

Liverpool have virtually no money coming in. Match day revenue is gone. TV money is gone.

Liverpool pay 2m a week on player wages.

Liverpool have, as per their last accounts, 35 million in cash.

Do the maths.

You are embarrassing...........Trying to defend a billion pound company that is owned by billionaires........

DeanAustin

Skylinehead wrote: »

This is a soccer forum. Gway with the Ryanair stuff to Aviation.

If they're run at a profit, then they're perfectly capable of taking a minor hit in order to keep their low-paid staff on normal wages for a while. Saying "we paid the tax we were expected to pay" is no moral argument.

You really think Liverpool or any other club will do anything but continue to put 80m bids in for players when this is over? You've more faith than I do.

It’s a reasonable comparison. There’s an economic reality here for football clubs that’s similar to airlines. Their revenue has collapsed and they have expenses that include player wages, payment of transfer fees and, in Spurs’ case, the repayment of stadium debt.

The clubs are run at a profit but I’ll say this again because the maths don’t change. Liverpool had 37m in cash last year. People seem to think they had billions. They had 37m in cash. They owed around 300m within a year (presumably loans and transfer fees) and were owed around 150m within a year. So their outgoings are significant and they have nothing coming in.

They can only sustain paying everyone for a few months. Of course Liverpool or Spurs won’t go to the wall but they don’t have limitless amounts of cash or anything like it and their ability to bid 80m for players will be seriously diminished the longer this goes on.

It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, the optics are terrible but if people think other clubs won’t do this, they’re wrong.

DeanAustin

ziggyman17 wrote: »

You are embarrassing...........Trying to defend a billion pound company that is owned by billionaires........

Christ almighty. Nice soundbite but they aren’t a billion pound company particularly when there is no money coming in.

FitzShane

FitzShane wrote: »

I would think there will be big decreases in transfer fees. Clubs won't have the money.

Probably depends on the tv money too.

Tom Mann Centuria

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Yeah, sadly they will, I'd guess the majority or maybe all of them by the time it's done.

It just gives more evidence of the greed involved in general

And that comes from the top down too not just clubs like Liverpool

UEFA and the PL in general all greedy as ****

Bringing half of madrid into liverpool when spain was entering a major phase of an outbreak is another example of it

Skylinehead

DeanAustin wrote: »

It’s a reasonable comparison. There’s an economic reality here for football clubs that’s similar to airlines. Their revenue has collapsed and they have expenses that include player wages, payment of transfer fees and, in Spurs’ case, the repayment of stadium debt.

The clubs are run at a profit but I’ll say this again because the maths don’t change. Liverpool had 37m in cash last year. People seem to think they had billions. They had 37m in cash. They owed around 300m within a year (presumably loans and transfer fees) and were owed around 150m within a year. So their outgoings are significant and they have nothing coming in.

They can only sustain paying everyone for a few months. Of course Liverpool or Spurs won’t go to the wall but they don’t have limitless amounts of cash or anything like it and their ability to bid 80m for players will be seriously diminished the longer this goes on.

It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, the optics are terrible but if people think other clubs won’t do this, they’re wrong.

You continue to dance around the fact that they aren't sustaining it for a few months.

The optics are only terrible because the facts around the optics are equally terrible.

brinty

Never thought I'd see the day and say fair play to Jamie Carragher
He's calling out LFC on this and how poor they are acting

It'll be interesting if attendences will be affected next season

~Rebel~

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It just gives more evidence of the greed involved in general

And that comes from the top down too not just clubs like Liverpool

UEFA and the PL in general all greedy as ****

Bringing half of madrid into liverpool when spain was entering a major phase of an outbreak is another example of it

It always reminds me of the Mayor in Jaws. When I was younger, I thought he was a totally ridiculous character that I couldn’t quite buy. But getting older, you see his rationale reflected throughout life.

DM_7

DeanAustin wrote: »

People here are living in Disneyland. More clubs will go down this route. English football clubs don’t have massive stockpiles of cash despite the revenue they generate. Their revenue streams have almost completely dried up. Even if players take a 30% pay cut, clubs will still be forking out millions in wages every month.

This situation is not sustainable beyond a few months without clubs borrowing a lot of money or games being played behind closed doors. I know everyone assumes greed when clubs do anything motivated by money and a lot of the time that’s justified but right now, clubs are looking at how they’ll survive in any sort of reasonable shape.

The scheme they are using for staff is only a three month gig and does not appear to be saving significant amounts of money compared to player wages. The scheme only allows up to £2500 to be recouped per month so that is £7500 per employee.

Its a bad look for the league to have this news a day after they were telling the press they will be setting up funds to help the football league but are asking the Government to pay a chunk of lower paid staff wages.

5 premier league clubs doing it so far.

Can any business in the UK claim?

Rayne Wooney

There will be some raised eyebrows in Liverpool for sure, but it’s more their governments fault for allowing a company that made a net profit of 100 million to opt into the scheme.

Essentially the fans are paying to keep the staff on when the fans are the reason Liverpool are in such a healthy place financially in the first place.

I hope our leaders are not allowing the above to happen but I’d say there is huge abuse of the system here too.

https://twitter.com/Carra23/status/1246467781681451008?s=09

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

There will be some raised eyebrows in Liverpool for sure, but it’s more their governments fault for allowing a company that made a net profit of 100 million to opt into the scheme.

Essentially the fans are paying to keep the staff on when the fans are the reason Liverpool are in such a healthy place financially in the first place.

I hope our leaders are not allowing the above to happen but I’d say there is huge abuse of the system here too.

Bang on. Tory government ****ed up there. That's their problem.

We will be dealing with it in Ireland. Multi billion dollar multinationals already on the scheme in Ireland.

RasTa

As a British tax payer as if I needed another reason to hate Liverpool.

I'd say Klopp is disgusted, Henderson too. The deflection is laughable by the usual few. I'd be hammering into United if they do the same.

Hopefully the government step in and tell them to get fecked.

ziggyman17

DeanAustin wrote: »

Christ almighty. Nice soundbite but they aren’t a billion pound company particularly when there is no money coming in.

you are on here defending them for letting the government pick up a huge % of the everyday staff, I wonder will your opinion change, when come the transfer window they go and spent 100 million on buying players...........

Yea the multi million companies in ireland, the big bad Pharma companies who are still working as normal making life saving medicines for the rest of world

For shame on them and their hard working employees who are going to work and risking their health for actual essential services

The mask slipping for a few alright

DeanAustin

DM_7 wrote: »

The scheme they are using for staff is only a three month gig and does not appear to be saving significant amounts of money compared to player wages. The scheme only allows up to £2500 to be recouped per month so that is £7500 per employee.

Its a bad look for the league to have this news a day after they were telling the press they will be setting up funds to help the football league but are asking the Government to pay a chunk of lower paid staff wages.

So for Tottenham who put 550 employees on the scheme, it means that they will be save probably around 1m - 1.3m a month. That’ll pay player wages for a few weeks.

Players need to take a pay cut here because paying their wages in full will cripple clubs and it’s morally wrong to be picking up large sums of money when you aren’t working and the world is on its knees. I genuinely think they will because most of them seem like decent lads but it’s taking a bit of time to come to an agreement with the union. It’d be obscene if they didn’t make some sort of concession.

People are acting as if Levy, Warner and Ashley are cartoon-like villains who are pocketing the money. It’s being used to pay the clubs’ debts and outgoings in the absence of revenue coming in and a limited amount of cash to sustain the situation. I don’t like it but I can understand why they’ve done it beyond some simplistic “greedy *****” narrative.

As for Jamie Carragher, he’s short sighted at the best of times.

DeanAustin

ziggyman17 wrote: »

you are on here defending them for letting the government pick up a huge % of the everyday staff, I wonder will your opinion change, when come the transfer window they go and spent 100 million on buying players...........

You really don’t appreciate the enormity of what’s going on here if you think that’ll happen. The world will not just go back to normal when this situation ends.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Carra23/status/1246467781681451008?s=09

What's in the statement? Can't see much bad in it except all staff will be paid...

RasTa

RasTa wrote: »

As a British tax payer as if I needed another reason to hate Liverpool.

I'd say Klopp is disgusted, Henderson too. The deflection is laughable by the usual few. I'd be hammering into United if they do the same.

Hopefully the government step in and tell them to get fecked.

Premier league teams should be told to **** themselves. Tough on the British taxpayer, but they voted the Tories in.

JP Liz V1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Carra23/status/1246467781681451008?s=09

Whose at fault, Klopp, the players or club board of management for no cuts?

I assume Klopp and the players would do right and take pay cuts

RasTa

Ashamed of nothing indeed. Not all but it's ok to say this is scum.

Shanotheslayer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Disgusting stuff. Really hope other clubs don't follow suit but probably will do.

Will be shocked if most clubs don't follow suit.

Genuinely not even surprised

Zebra3

6 wrote: »

They are taking money off the the British government? Meh, one for the British tax payers to get upset about.

There'll be bigger companies bleeding our own government shortly. More concerned with that
personally as we'll be paying for it.

Amazing the stuff that people take offence to.

People discussing football clubs in a football forum.

Whatever next?

Shanotheslayer

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Will be shocked if most clubs don't follow suit.

Genuinely not even surprised

They already are. These are the ones in the open.

Bournemouth
Spurs
Liverpool
Norwich
Newcastle


Usual Liverpool haters just focusing on them.

Those schemes shouldn't be for big business imo. Although there'll be much bigger business than football claiming this. Football clubs are small fry.

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

People discussing football clubs in a football forum.

Whatever next?

Agreed

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

People discussing football clubs in a football forum.

Whatever next?

Defend the club no matter what

It's embarrassing

RasTa

Branson is scum too, Mike Ashley obvious everybody knows and same with Levy now add Liverpool to that list with that Wetherspoons fart.

I'll give Bournemouth and Norwich a pass as they could end up like Bolton over this

RasTa

RasTa wrote: »

Branson is scum too, Mike Ashley obvious everybody knows and same with Levy now add Liverpool to that list with that Wetherspoons fart.

I'll give Bournemouth and Norwich a pass as they could end up like Bolton over this

What revenue do you need to be at to breech your scum threshold?

Branson I thought paid little tax in the UK! He's number 1 figure of hate!

RasTa

6 wrote: »

What revenue do you need to be at to breech your scum threshold?

If you're too thick to understand then there is no point. Tax exiles and foreign based billionaires should not be taking advantage.

and Sunak thinks the self employed will be the ones committing fraud regarding this scheme.

brinty

6 wrote:

Usual Liverpool haters just focusing on them.

A club legend calls the club it on it

But but but everyone who hates us is focusing on us....

CSF

brinty wrote: »

A club legend calls the club it on it

But but but everyone who hates us is focusing on us....

But you do it about everything

ziggyman17

6 wrote: »

They already are. These are the ones in the open.

Bournemouth
Spurs
Liverpool
Norwich
Newcastle


Usual Liverpool haters just focusing on them.

Those schemes shouldn't be for big business imo. Although there'll be much bigger business than football claiming this. Football clubs are small fry.

They earned over a 100 million for winning the champions league last season, have just signed the biggest contract for jerseys in the Premier league, they are rolling in money, it is only a little over a month since they last played a game, they could have waited a couple of months to see how things pan out, but instead at the first chance they did this...I bet the owners will not be taking a personnel money hit during all this, while the everyday employees are shown what the club employers thinks of them.........

paulbok

Deleted User wrote: »

Defend the club no matter what

It's embarrassing

It'll be difficult to get t-shirts printed up at the moment mind you.