Football & Coronavirus [READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST - updated 06-05-20]

Strumms

Ex Liverpool players now this morning coming out to criticize their club for this decision ... one very prominent one in Jamie Carragher,...

“Jurgen Klopp showed compassion for all at the start of this pandemic, senior players heavily involved in @premierleague players taking wage cuts. Then all that respect & goodwill is lost, poor this @LFC”;

Collymore :

“I don’t know of any Liverpool fan of any standing that won’t be anything other than disgusted at the club for furloghing staff. It’s just plain f****** wrong.
Fellow football fans, furlough is for small business staff to keep those small businesses from going bump! Every Premier League owner has serious cash, and make money from skyrocketing values of clubs, so what aren’t you getting about YOUR owners dipping into THEIR pocket?”

Dietmar Hamman :

“Astonished by the news that @lfc takes advantage of the furlough scheme to claim 80 % of non playing staffs wages back of the government. That’s not what the scheme was designed for. Contrary to the morals and values of the club i got to know.”

8-10

adox wrote: »

Ashley and Levy got lambasted for their actions and so should Liverpool.

It’s amazing to see some have utter blind loyalty to the club(especially in these desperate extraordinary times) and won’t criticise anything the club do and actually try to justify it.

You look kinda silly imo, especially when you often try to take the moral high ground.

Any fan who defends the club over this needs to take a long look at themselves.

Shameful decision

brinty

noodler wrote:

It'll be something for people with a chip on their shoulder to emphasize despite all the other good things the club does.

The goods things
Like take government money to pay low paid staff whilst paying players and management over £100k a well each
Like buying up houses around Anfield, letting them go to rack and ruin for years to depress other house prices,
Like forcing old people to live in squalor with rats running through their houses

Yeah a fine example of a club

You're allowed take your blinkers of and admitt when Liverpool have done wrong. I do it about United and have no problem admitting their faults. You don't have to defend them with your dying breath cos.... Liverpool....

The_Kew_Tour

noodler wrote: »

If you are admitting the whole thing is giving you some sort of smug satisfaction then the whole honest discussion is pretty much tainted.

You are just being honest of course.

Its wasn't me that did it. It was the team you support. Take your frustration and anger out on them.

DeanAustin

Strumms wrote: »

Ex Liverpool players now this morning coming out to criticize their club for this decision ... one very prominent one in Jamie Carragher,...

“Jurgen Klopp showed compassion for all at the start of this pandemic, senior players heavily involved in @premierleague players taking wage cuts. Then all that respect & goodwill is lost, poor this @LFC”;

Collymore :

“I don’t know of any Liverpool fan of any standing that won’t be anything other than disgusted at the club for furloghing staff. It’s just plain f****** wrong.
Fellow football fans, furlough is for small business staff to keep those small businesses from going bump! Every Premier League owner has serious cash, and make money from skyrocketing values of clubs, so what aren’t you getting about YOUR owners dipping into THEIR pocket?”

Dietmar Hamman :

“Astonished by the news that @lfc takes advantage of the furlough scheme to claim 80 % of non playing staffs wages back of the government. That’s not what the scheme was designed for. Contrary to the morals and values of the club i got to know.”

Not three of the most credible sources.

Carragher: watch his argument with Gary Neville last year around Tottenham and spending. Showed he had no grasp of the economics of running a football club. Outside of discussing the actual game, he’s out of his depth.

Collymore: Hmmmm

Hamman: This is the fella on Dunphy’s podcast who was repeatedly driving at Klopp not being the man to win trophies at Liverpool in the first few years. He had no appreciation for the long term plan Klopp was putting in place and seemed to want him fired.

Shanotheslayer

DeanAustin wrote: »

Not three of the most credible sources.

Carragher: watch his argument with Gary Neville last year around Tottenham and spending. Showed he had no grasp of the economics of running a football club. Outside of discussing the actual game, he’s out of his depth.

Collymore: Hmmmm

Hamman: This is the fella on Dunphy’s podcast who was repeatedly driving at Klopp not being the man to win trophies at Liverpool in the first few years. He had no appreciation for the long term plan Klopp was putting in place and seemed to want him fired.

Jesus that's some nonsense you posted.

The context at the time of what Hamman said was 100% accurate. It's easy to go back and state someone's opinion is wrong after the fact. How many years did Klopp go without a trophy at Liverpool? 2/3?

Also I don't think you know what the word credible means.

brinty

8-10 wrote:

Any fan who defends the club over this needs to take a long look at themselves.

Shameful decision

I know we rarely if ever agree but we'll done on this. As I said yesterday if United do this odd state the same thing

The_Kew_Tour

brinty wrote: »

I know we rarely if ever agree but we'll done on this. As I said yesterday if United do this odd state the same thing

Yep and I would not out it past the Glazers and Co to do it.

I doubt Liverpool will be last club that's for sure cause this Virus aint going anywhere soon in UK

Strumms

DeanAustin wrote: »

Not three of the most credible sources.

Carragher: watch his argument with Gary Neville last year around Tottenham and spending. Showed he had no grasp of the economics of running a football club. Outside of discussing the actual game, he’s out of his depth.

Collymore: Hmmmm

Hamman: This is the fella on Dunphy’s podcast who was repeatedly driving at Klopp not being the man to win trophies at Liverpool in the first few years. He had no appreciation for the long term plan Klopp was putting in place and seemed to want him fired.

Not credible ? I’d say extremely credible, as credible as one can get, three dyed in the wool Liverpool people of good standing.

No don’t need an economics degree to know this is disgraceful behavior from a club.

Trying to discredit their views on ‘this’ by disagreeing about comments they made on TV regarding football elements of the club ?

I think we can all see who is being discredited here.

Reganio 2

Strumms wrote: »

Collymore :

“I don’t know of any Liverpool fan of any standing that won’t be anything other than disgusted at the club for furloghing staff. It’s just plain f****** wrong.
Fellow football fans, furlough is for small business staff to keep those small businesses from going bump! Every Premier League owner has serious cash, and make money from skyrocketing values of clubs, so what aren’t you getting about YOUR owners dipping into THEIR pocket?”

My favourite part of all this is Stan Collymore getting on a high horse 😂😂😂

Reganio 2

Strumms wrote: »

Not credible ? I’d say extremely credible, as credible as one can get, three dyed in the wool Liverpool people of good standing.

No don’t need an economics degree to know this is disgraceful behavior from a club.

Trying to discredit their views on ‘this’ by disagreeing about comments they made on TV regarding football elements of the club ?

I think we can all see who is being discredited here.

You're right missus battering Stan Collymore is a fine good standing person.

Iused2likebusts

Pay the highest wages , spend the most on transfers and dont expect the british government to supplement their staffs wages. Glazers really are the best owners around.

gimli2112

Players union are right mugs. A 30% paycut will harm the NHS is their slogan. Make it 50% and give it direct to the health service if they're so worried.
I'm not a huge fan of the players having their pay cut to be honest. Media have ponced on this like a cat.

DeanAustin

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Jesus that's some nonsense you posted.

The context at the time of what Hamman said was 100% accurate. It's easy to go back and state someone's opinion is wrong after the fact. How many years did Klopp go without a trophy at Liverpool? 2/3?

Also I don't think you know what the word credible means.

Ok, they don’t have credibility when discussing this sort of stuff.

This is a question of economics for the football club. Carragher proved he has little grasp of that with the nonsense he was talking about Spurs.

Hamman shows he thinks in the short term. Klopp got Liverpool back in the CL in his first full season. The club had won 1 league cup in the 10 seasons before his arrival so going 2 or 3 seasons without a trophy was nothing new. He got them back in the top 4, got them to two European finals and a domestic final. He had some glaring weaknesses in the team that he didn’t rush to fill with someone who was simply better than he had but filled this positions with the players he wanted. Anyone with half a brain could see what he was building but Didi was out there suggesting he should be fired. Suggests a lack of appreciation for the bigger picture to me.

Strumms

Reganio 2 wrote: »

You're right missus battering Stan Collymore is a fine good standing person.

You are right, because appalling behavior 22 years ago should influence all of our opinions for decades after.. and said behavior means that the individual could never possibly be right about anything ever again. . He is right NOW, that’s inconvenient and incredible for you to comprehend but, he is, sorry. :eek:

Iused2likebusts

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Pay the highest wages , spend the most on transfers and dont expect the british government to supplement their staffs wages. Glazers really are the best owners around.

The have to be commended not running to the government. This will have helped mend any friction. Can see them staying on for another while.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Its wasn't me that did it. It was the team you support. Take your frustration and anger out on them.

It's not about a discussion I'd say.

It's about an obsession he has with other posters on an anonymous forum while he's on the beer

It's weird, which is an acceptable thing to say

Reganio 2

Strumms wrote: »

You are right, because appalling behavior 22 years ago should influence all of our opinions for decades after.. and said behavior means that the individual could never possibly be right about anything ever again. . He is right NOW, that’s inconvenient and incredible for you to comprehend but, he is, sorry. :eek:

I never said I agree or disagree with what liverpool are doing. Also yes appalling behaviour should dictate what you think of someone.. course it should. The man has never managed a club or been part of a club other than as a player what does he know about the economics of a club?

Positive news. Spain death rate falls again. Hopefully themselves and Italy have peaked. Might give us an idea how the UK and ourselves may fare.

brinty

Reganio 2 wrote:

I never said I agree or disagree with what liverpool are doing. Also yes appalling behaviour should dictate what you think of someone.. course it should. The man has never managed a club or been part of a club other than as a player what does he know about the economics of a club?

Oh so you need a formal education in finance to understand the economics of a club now. Ok, so do you have one of those?

Reganio 2

brinty wrote: »

Oh so you need a formal education in finance to understand the economics of a club now. Ok, so do you have one of those?

No you dont but it helps. I have a masters degree in business and marketing.

Wayne Rooney labels public pressure on players over pay cuts 'a disgrace

Wayne Rooney has criticised both the British government and the Premier League for placing top footballers in a "no-win situation" over the issue of pay cuts, branding their interventions "a disgrace".

The former England captain, now playing in the Championship with Derby, penned an impassioned column in the Sunday Times in which he claimed his fellow professionals were being lined up as "easy targets" in the wider response to the coronavirus crisis.

Rooney made it clear he had both the means and the will to make significant financial contributions, either in the form of salary reductions or direct donations to the NHS, but felt the public pressure being exerted on players was unhelpful.

The Premier League's suggested 30% wage cut or deferral strategy was discussed in a conference call with the Professional Footballers' Association and the League Managers Association on Saturday, but initial talks were already ongoing before key political figures, including British Health Secretary Matt Hancock, called for them to take action.

"If the government approached me to help support nurses financially or buy ventilators I'd be proud to do so - as long as I knew where the money was going," wrote Rooney.

"I'm in a position where I could give something up. Not every footballer is in the same position. Yet suddenly the whole profession has been put on the spot with a demand for 30% pay cuts across the board. Why are footballers suddenly the scapegoats?

"How the past few days have played out is a disgrace. First the Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, said that Premier League players should take a pay cut. He was supposed to be giving the nation the latest on the biggest crisis we've faced in our lifetimes. Why was the pay of footballers even in his head? Was he desperate to divert attention from his government's handling of this pandemic?"

Rooney went on to question the wisdom of the Premier League in pre-empting behind-the-scenes talks involving players with its own proposals for sweeping reductions.

"It seemed strange to me because every other decision in this process has been kept behind closed doors, but this had to be announced publicly," he added. "Why? It feels as if it's to shame the players - to force them into a corner where they have to pick up the bill for lost revenue.

"In my opinion it is now a no-win situation. Whatever way you look at it, we're easy targets."

Strumms

Reganio 2 wrote: »

I never said I agree or disagree with what liverpool are doing. Also yes appalling behaviour should dictate what you think of someone.. course it should. The man has never managed a club or been part of a club other than as a player what does he know about the economics of a club?

Maybe like a lot of us he has a reasonable basic grasp of maths and the logic behind it.

Speaking of logic, by your own logic, none of us here have ever played professional football that I’m aware of. Therefore by this logic or thinking we shouldn’t be offering ideas or opinions on this forum in relation to the sport...

Collymore despite what you might think of him will have had closer experience and exposure to the running of and people who actually run football clubs, twenty plus years in the industry. You’d pick up a degree of knowledge in relation to the inner working machinations on a football club in no time.

Reganio 2

Strumms wrote: »

Maybe like a lot of us he has a reasonable basic grasp of maths and the logic behind it.

Speaking of logic, by your own logic, none of us here have ever played professional football that I’m aware of. Therefore by this logic or thinking we shouldn’t be offering ideas or opinions on this forum in relation to the sport...

Collymore despite what you might think of him will have had closer experience and exposure to the running of and people who actually run football clubs, twenty plus years in the industry. You’d pick up a degree of knowledge in relation to the inner working machinations on a football club in no time.

The man that sued his former business advisor over bad information dosent strike me as the most knowledgeable person when it comes to finance.

gstack166

6 wrote: »

Positive news. Spain death rate falls again. Hopefully themselves and Italy have peaked. Might give us an idea how the UK and ourselves may fare.

Am I right in saying that the death count in Spain is only from ICU deaths with the virus? That’s the figure that is released but doesn’t take into account the people who are older that are home and dying from it? So the figures aren’t totally accurate?

I am enjoying the sight of those who have invested so much emotion in British clubs over the years now say "well, it's just a business, they're making sensible business decisions".

When Liverpool and Spurs were in a CL final last year, long before they decided to dump their poorest paid staff on the taxpayer, I don't remember many saying "meh, it's just one English business against another English business"

tastyt

First of all , what Liverpool have done is disgraceful, working class club , supposed club of the people now taking money out of these peoples pockets in hard times because they won’t spend their own millions. Simply no excuse or spin to be put on it.

And Rooney? What does he want , people to feel sorry for multi millionaire footballers ? They are in a privileged position earning stupid amounts of money. The very people who support these guys every week going to the grounds, spending their hard earned money on tickets and sky subscriptions are now losing their jobs and livelihoods. The players are asked to take a cut for a couple of months and he gets the violin out. Talk about detached from reality.

And yes I agree there should be a deal to redirect that money into places of need but just agree to the ****ing cut first and then sort that out. At least show the public you are with them and want to help instead of crying and whingeing like the spoiled man children that footballers are these days.

Just another sign how money has destroyed the game, totally out of touch .

Reganio 2

Deleted User wrote: »

I am enjoying the sight of those who have invested so much emotion in British clubs over the years now say "well, it's just a business, they're making sensible business decisions".

When Liverpool and Spurs were in a CL final last year, long before they decided to dump their poorest paid staff on the taxpayer, I don't remember many saying "meh, it's just one English business against another English business"

I'm also enjoying people defending what happens to the english taxpayer.

Strumms

Reganio 2 wrote: »

The man that sued his former business advisor over bad information dosent strike me as the most knowledgeable person when it comes to finance.

Unless you’ve had access to him, his accounts and know his business advisor and their detailed history it’s probably a bit of a stretch to decree what he knows or doesn’t.

gstack166

gstack166 wrote: »

Am I right in saying that the death count in Spain is only from ICU deaths with the virus? That’s the figure that is released but doesn’t take into account the people who are older that are home and dying from it? So the figures aren’t totally accurate?

You may be right on that. I know France weren't counting them but are now. Not sure about Spain. Nursing homes here in the East are a mess too unfortunately.

Reganio 2

tastyt wrote: »

.....Just another sign how money has destroyed the game, totally out of touch .

Players have worked hard to get where they are and be paid that money why should they have to give it up just cause someone else thinks they are paid too much?

Most players have also said they will take a 30% payout to help out and the government said dont so that as the tax the players pay goes an awful long way with the nhs and everything the government has to pay for.

I dont think Rooney was saying feel sorry for us he just made a good point that why are the government signaling them out. Imagine the health secretary stepping up and going I think all mechanics and bar staff should take pay cuts. Shouldn't be signalling anyone out.

Reganio 2

Strumms wrote: »

Unless you’ve had access to him, his accounts and know his business advisor and their detailed history it’s probably a bit of a stretch to decree what he knows or doesn’t.

Maybe like a lot of us I have a basic grasp of maths and the logic behind it.....

So now I cant comment on something without knowing the ins and outs? Make up your mind here.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I am enjoying the sight of those who have invested so much emotion in British clubs over the years now say "well, it's just a business, they're making sensible business decisions".

When Liverpool and Spurs were in a CL final last year, long before they decided to dump their poorest paid staff on the taxpayer, I don't remember many saying "meh, it's just one English business against another English business"

They were probably just enjoying the game. Well, the Liverpool fans were.

You can do both you know. Enjoy the football and scoff at their business decisions. Clubs owners are constantly flogged by supporters over decisions they make. This isn't a new phenomenon.

Reganio 2

Reganio 2 wrote: »

I'm also enjoying people defending what happens to the english taxpayer.

Actually I've supported the English taxpayer since my Dad picked them for me when I was 5. I have posters of them on my wall and go over to see them 4 times a year. I don't bother with the Irish taxpayer, standard here is crap.

DeanAustin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I am enjoying the sight of those who have invested so much emotion in British clubs over the years now say "well, it's just a business, they're making sensible business decisions".

When Liverpool and Spurs were in a CL final last year, long before they decided to dump their poorest paid staff on the taxpayer, I don't remember many saying "meh, it's just one English business against another English business"

Quite the strawman that is. Football clubs are different to other businesses but they don’t run on fresh air and there is still an economic reality to be faced here. You can only pay out money for so long if there is no money coming in. And there is no money coming in.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually I've supported the English taxpayer since my Dad picked them for me when I was 5. I have posters of them on my wall and go over to see them 4 times a year. I don't bother with the Irish taxpayer, standard here is crap.

Strumms

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Maybe like a lot of us I have a basic grasp of maths and the logic behind it.....

So now I cant comment on something without knowing the ins and outs? Make up your mind here.

My mind is made up but thats ok, What Liverpool are doing is being played out in full view of the media, they publish financials. 125 million profit last year, not turnover, PROFIT ! :rolleyes:

Reganio 2

Strumms wrote: »

My mind is made up but thats ok, What Liverpool are doing is being played out in full view of the media, they publish financials. 125 million profit last year, not turnover, PROFIT ! :rolleyes:

Well that was 2 years ago and also pre tax but dont let that get in the way of a good story.

DeanAustin

Strumms wrote: »

My mind is made up but thats ok, What Liverpool are doing is being played out in full view of the media, they publish financials. 125 million profit last year, not turnover, PROFIT ! :rolleyes:

Where is your number coming from?

Their 2019 balance sheet showed £37m in the bank and a working capital position of around -£150m.

Their income statement showed a profit of £33m but that £33m isn’t in addition to the above numbers. They had £37m in the bank, are paying 2m a week in wages and looking at their current liabilities, have other outgoings (presumably transfer installments and paying for work on Anfield).

Fine if you don’t agree with what they’ve done. I’m not sure I do either. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But you’re not entitled to your own facts or numbers.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

My mind is made up but thats ok, What Liverpool are doing is being played out in full view of the media, they publish financials. 125 million profit last year, not turnover, PROFIT ! :rolleyes:

Thought it was £41m?

DeanAustin

DeanAustin wrote: »

Where is your number coming from?

Their 2019 balance sheet showed £37m in the bank and a working capital position of around -£150m.

Their income statement showed a profit of £33m but that £33m isn’t in addition to the above numbers. They had £37m in the bank, are paying 2m a week in wages and looking at their current liabilities, have other outgoings (presumably transfer installments and paying for work on Anfield).

Fine if you don’t agree with what they’ve done. I’m not sure I do either. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But you’re not entitled to your own facts or numbers.

Thanks, thought that figure looked way off.

Makes the argument look better by adding a zero and capital letters!

gstack166

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Well that was 2 years ago and also pre tax but dont let that get in the way of a good story.

The Coutinho money was 3 years ago & we’re told Liverpool still have it to spend

Shanotheslayer

gstack166 wrote: »

The Coutinho money was 3 years ago & we’re told Liverpool still have it to spend

That's nothing.

Everton are still looking for the Arteta money.

noodler

brinty wrote: »

The goods things
Like take government money to pay low paid staff whilst paying players and management over £100k a well each
Like buying up houses around Anfield, letting them go to rack and ruin for years to depress other house prices,
Like forcing old people to live in squalor with rats running through their houses

Yeah a fine example of a club

You're allowed take your blinkers of and admitt when Liverpool have done wrong. I do it about United and have no problem admitting their faults. You don't have to defend them with your dying breath cos.... Liverpool....

This is typical enough of the vitriol you post.

Couple of general Liverpool digs followed with an accusation of blinkers etc when I haven't defended the action.

The blinkers belong to you and your partner though. Look how many posts you have on the subject, conflating all sorts of hyperbolic nonsense into your posts to try and make it seem you aren't being fuelled purely by your anti-liverpool bias.

Strumms

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Well that was 2 years ago and also pre tax but dont let that get in the way of a good story.

No, their “published financials” last year. So there is no ‘good story’, please read.

Financials are available across multiple respected media outlets.

DeanAustin

gstack166 wrote: »

The Coutinho money was 3 years ago & we’re told Liverpool still have it to spend

The audited accounts are out there. Take a look. They don’t have a pit of money.

I’d imagine the Coutinho money will come in installments rather that it just sitting in a bank account. But the fees for VVD, Allison, Fabinho and Keita are also still being paid. Without revenue, Liverpool FC will be in trouble in 2-3 months and so will every other club including the one I support (Spurs).

gstack166

DeanAustin wrote: »

The audited accounts are out there. Take a look. They don’t have a pit of money.

I’d imagine the Coutinho money will come in installments rather that it just sitting in a bank account. But the fees for VVD, Allison, Fabinho and Keita are also still being paid. Without revenue, Liverpool FC will be in trouble in 2-3 months and so will every other club including the one I support (Spurs).

It was a joke man.

DeanAustin

Strumms wrote: »

No, their “published financials” last year. So there is no ‘good story’, please read.

Financials are available across multiple respected media outlets.

Their published financials last year didn’t show a 9 figure profit. It showed a 33m profit after tax. Go take a look if you don’t believe me:

https://d3j2s6hdd6a7rg.cloudfront.net/images/misc/Liverpool-Football-Club-Annual-Report-and-Consolidated-Financial-Statements-31May2019.PDF

And profit means nothing now. It’s how much they have in the bank to cover expenses because without revenue, there will be no profit and there is no revenue coming in right now.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

No, their “published financials” last year. So there is no ‘good story’, please read.

Financials are available across multiple respected media outlets.

Your figures are miles off. A two second Google will show you that.

Strumms

I was referring to the previous financial year, granted I could have been clearer but those and the most recent set of results bolster my view that the club are behaving poorly. Very poorly.. there is or shouldn’t be a defense of it. Poor.