Football & Coronavirus [READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST - updated 06-05-20]

Mitch Connor

DeanAustin wrote: »

They earn obscene amounts of money and aren't really working right now. If you were told to stay home by your company and not work, would they pay you?

The players are entitled to that money when the machine is generating the revenue to pay those wages. It now isn't. So they continue to claim hundreds of thousands a week when they aren't working while the world is on its knees and people are losing their jobs. Someone has to pick up the tab for that.

That someone is football clubs who can only do it for a limited period of time - 2-3 months for most clubs. What the players are doing right now is not sustainable. I'm sure they'll come to a sensible decision because most of them seem like decent people. It's just taking time.

The clubs are picking up the tab. Yes. And while the clubs can afford to do so... why take a pay cut?

If the United players took a 30% cut tomorrow, it would benefit the club - and the club only - when it apparently doesn't really need it. It can afford (for the moment) to continue to pay is obligations.

If United imposed a pay cut on regular staff while paying full player wages I would have an issue with it - the directors first, then down to the players, should be the first taking cuts and everything should be done to avoid forcing a cut on regular staff or taking money off the government.

But until such time as that is actually needed - I don't know why people want players to take a pay cut other than 'just because'.

There should be a reason for them to take a pay cut, beyond the fact they earn a lot of money.

The Barca players taking a cut is as much down to the Barcelona wage bill and their general finances being utterly insane. They've been taking huge loans out to pay their bills in recent seasons - they are a badly ran club.

DeanAustin

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The clubs are picking up the tab. Yes. And while the clubs can afford to do so... why take a pay cut?

If the United players took a 30% cut tomorrow, it would benefit the club - and the club only - when it apparently doesn't really need it. It can afford (for the moment) to continue to pay is obligations.

If United imposed a pay cut on regular staff while paying full player wages I would have an issue with it - the directors first, then down to the players, should be the first taking cuts and everything should be done to avoid forcing a cut on regular staff or taking money off the government.

But until such time as that is actually needed - I don't know why people want players to take a pay cut other than 'just because'.

There should be a reason for them to take a pay cut, beyond the fact they earn a lot of money.

The Barca players taking a cut is as much down to the Barcelona wage bill and their general finances being utterly insane. They've been taking huge loans out to pay their bills in recent seasons - they are a badly ran club.

There is a reason for it. It's not as simple as saying "clubs want players to take a cut just because..."

This could go on for months. Clubs can afford to support it for 2-3 months if they pay players at full rate. If players take the cut now, that enables clubs to keep running for a longer period of time because this crisis could go on for 4, 5, 6 or more months. There is no point coming to June and saying "Ah crap, we didn't really see this coming and now we have nothing in the pot."

Players aren't working and are claiming a wage. That's different to the majority of ordinary people. They also, deservedly in normal circumstances, earn obscene amounts of money. They should take a pay cut now because they are not working and it will help clubs to meet their debt obligations if this crisis goes beyond June. Not "just because".

Mitch Connor

DeanAustin wrote: »

There is a reason for it. It's not as simple as saying "clubs want players to take a cut just because..."

This could go on for months. Clubs can afford to support it for 2-3 months if they pay players at full rate. If players take the cut now, that enables clubs to keep running for a longer period of time because this crisis could go on for 4, 5, 6 or more months. There is no point coming to June and saying "Ah crap, we didn't really see this coming and now we have nothing in the pot."

Players aren't working and are claiming a wage. That's different to the majority of ordinary people. They also, deservedly in normal circumstances, earn obscene amounts of money. They should take a pay cut now because they are not working and it will help clubs to meet their debt obligations if this crisis goes beyond June. Not "just because".

So all players, should accept a blanket cut in pay, right now. Because some clubs might need them to in a couple of months?

So all players, regardless of what they are on, should take a 30% cut, right now.

It CAN'T be that simple.

Some clubs need players to take cuts, some clubs will need it sooner rather than later. Some players will be far better able to take such a cut than others.

This blanket desire for players to take a cut is simplistic.

noodler

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That is some weird, weird, weird, Cathy Newman logic there.

You only need look at the anti-liverpool partners who thanked your post.

DeanAustin

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So all players, should accept a blanket cut in pay, right now. Because some clubs might need them to in a couple of months?

So all players, regardless of what they are on, should take a 30% cut, right now.

It CAN'T be that simple.

Some clubs need players to take cuts, some clubs will need it sooner rather than later. Some players will be far better able to take such a cut than others.

This blanket desire for players to take a cut is simplistic.

Maybe the blanket cut is simplistic. I've not thought about it in that much detail.

But I think it's wrong for players, who are not actually working, to pick up massive paycheques when their employers have literally no money coming in. If I wasn't working and couldn't do my job, I wouldn't expect my employer to pay me. That's what's happening around the world right now.

Footballers are different because they are effectively assets to their club so clubs won't break their contracts but if they continue to take their full salary, they are taking advantage of that situation. And sooner or later, that well will run dry.

Mitch Connor

DeanAustin wrote: »

Maybe the blanket cut is simplistic. I've not thought about it in that much detail.

But I think it's wrong for players, who are not actually working, to pick up massive paycheques when their employers have literally no money coming in. If I wasn't working and couldn't do my job, I wouldn't expect my employer to pay me. That's what's happening around the world right now.

Footballers are different because they are effectively assets to their club so clubs won't break their contracts but if they continue to take their full salary, they are taking advantage of that situation. And sooner or later, that well will run dry.

The match day staff are not going to be working either - so should the club stop paying them? At least the players have an obligation to train and maintain fitness levels per their contract?

Obviously the answer to that is no, but why should match day staff be paid for not working but players should not be?

They are not taking advantage of the situation - to take advantage would be to leverage their position to take more. They are not doing so. They are simply being paid as per the terms of their contract.

I'm not arguing that players should not take any pay cut at any point, but the blanket desire of many, led by the moronic Hancock, for players 'to do their part' is asinine.

Any cut in pay, to any staff, should (imo) start at the very top, and go downwards from them. At United, for example, it should be the Glazers and Woodward stepping up to the cut plate first.

gimli2112

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Liverpool fans have sold their souls to the current ownership

They have to defend them, even if they make them look completely classless

a here we sold them to Satan years ago
2005 for me. I mean seriously you really think we would have won the CL that year? Did you see our left back?

PARlance

PARlance wrote: »

Really surprised to see Liverpool opting for the government bailout.

You would expect it from Newcastle/Ashley and Spurs/Levy would be the next suggestion but wouldn't have put Liverpool along with them.

Not surprised, disappointed, but on the plus it gives some group of posters delicious sticky fists

Skylinehead

noodler wrote: »

You are a fan of the partners and their posting style I take it.

Given that's what I criticise.

Mod: Stop the attacks.

Worztron

Soccer matches still being played. WTF?

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1246820598711541767?s=19

https://twitter.com/talkSPORT/status/1246777104127029248?s=19

Iused2likebusts

With the concern for the British economy now understood. I think the majority of us will have no problem supporting behind closed doors when safe to do so. It will generate money for the tv companies and ensure the clubs get money that will ensure wages can be paid. Safeguarding thousands and thousands of jobs.

Mitch Connor

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

With the concern for the British economy now understood. I think the majority of us will have no problem supporting behind closed doors when safe to do so. It will generate money for the tv companies and ensure the clubs get money that will ensure wages can be paid. Safeguarding thousands and thousands of jobs.

for my own opinion, I fully support games being played behind closed doors.

1. IMO, it will be quicker to safely play games behind closed doors than allowing 50,000 fans into the ground. I think we will see people returning to work (and thus football would be possible) before huge mass gatherings are encouraged.

2. People need escapism. If we can play football behind closed doors and offer some respite from the world (and it can be done safely) then have at it.

Chuck Noland

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

With the concern for the British economy now understood. I think the majority of us will have no problem supporting behind closed doors when safe to do so. It will generate money for the tv companies and ensure the clubs get money that will ensure wages can be paid. Safeguarding thousands and thousands of jobs.

The biggest worry here is the drain on the emergency services when they are needed else where. A quick look online shows all the morons in the uk ignoring the social distancing and stay at home orders and packing parks and towns over the weekends. If the PL restarts you will have thousands of idiots outside football grounds at every game

ctrl-alt-delete

Not sure escorts can furlough themselves,

Walker doing a good deed, especially with it being two - just hope they had PPE.

Mitch Connor

Chuck Noland wrote: »

The biggest worry here is the drain on the emergency services when they are needed else where. A quick look online shows all the morons in the uk ignoring the social distancing and stay at home orders and packing parks and towns over the weekends. If the PL restarts you will have thousands of idiots outside football grounds at every game

it would certainly be something that needs to be looked at - and one of the things that is being looked at to combat this is making all games televised, so that fans are encouraged to not be at the ground.

If they are behind closed doors AND you can't watch on tv, you will get problems.

Liverpool fans would be a particular worry in this respect (and I'm not saying this to cast them as villians, hold up!) as they 'welcome to Anfield' is now a 'thing' fpr both the Liverpool club bus and opposition, more so than other clubs.

Additionally, Liverpool can win the title within two matches. So if we start by playing behind closed doors (and it is deemed that is what is needed) I don't see how you stop a mass gathering of Liverpool fans around Anfield to celebrate the inevitable title win.

Whilst playing behind closed doors could be the aim, and what happens, keeping fan numbers down around the stadium could be a nightmare and require significant policing resources to enforce, which makes it difficult to do in the first place.

The_Kew_Tour

Hence why it’s going be while before football is played at all.

Mitch Connor

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Hence why it’s going be while before football is played at all.

Though if it is being played behind closed doors... I wonder if they could change where games are played.

The idea of playing a World Cup like tournement could be a goer, in some aspects.

Play all the matches at a small number of Stadiums over the course of a few weeks - so Liverpoool aren't playing at Anfield or United aren't playing at Old Traffford.

If you aren't playing at your own stadium, the mass gathering of local fans is far less likely.

Tom Mann Centuria

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Though if it is being played behind closed doors... I wonder if they could change where games are played.

The idea of playing a World Cup like tournement could be a goer, in some aspects.

Play all the matches at a small number of Stadiums over the course of a few weeks - so Liverpoool aren't playing at Anfield or United aren't playing at Old Traffford.

If you aren't playing at your own stadium, the mass gathering of local fans is far less likely.

But then you have accusations of elitism, one rule for those high paid footballers, one rule for everyone else, we can't play a game in the park etc.

The_Kew_Tour

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Though if it is being played behind closed doors... I wonder if they could change where games are played.

The idea of playing a World Cup like tournement could be a goer, in some aspects.

Play all the matches at a small number of Stadiums over the course of a few weeks - so Liverpoool aren't playing at Anfield or United aren't playing at Old Traffford.

If you aren't playing at your own stadium, the mass gathering of local fans is far less likely.

It’s a good idea I think most be up for that.

Like see it played out but think lot depends on how other big leagues play things out too.

Plus English still ain’t getting this lockdown. The trajectory that UK is going in is very worrying but I guess we won’t really know for another month maybe two.

RasTa

Mitch Connor wrote: »

LOL.

So players d don't accept a pay cut and they are targets for you to beat down, but they do charitable things and its just what is expected.

Grow the f up.

Yeah, most local business in Manchester are looking after NHS in their own way by providing meals and discounts on services. Everyone is actually who are still open

So I'm not gonna get emotional over footballers doing what they should be doing.

Mitch Connor

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

But then you have accusations of elitism, one rule for those high paid footballers, one rule for everyone else, we can't play a game in the park etc.

my opinion is that when football returns, even behind closed doors, life for others will have returned to some degree of normality - so peoeple would be allowed to play in the park.

I think it will be longer before we see concerts and games before big crowds, than a large degree of normality has returned.

Football won't return prior to the lockdown being lifted.

Play them in Ireland. The Dublin decider

Mitch Connor

RasTa wrote: »

Yeah, most local business in Manchester are looking after NHS in their own way by providing meals and discounts on services. Everyone is actually who is still open

So I'm not gonna get emotional over footballers doing what they should be doing.

I hope all those people still working have taken a pay cut, to do their part.

Mick Carton, Dublin hurler got the virus. Young and fit but still ended up on oxygen in hospital for 4 days. Says he struggled to beat it. Scary the amount of young people ending up in hospital.

LoughNeagh2017

Is that who children have as icons nowadays? Kyle Walker? Mine was Gianfranco Zola, you wouldn't have seen him organise a sex party with two escorts. Imagine paying to watch these men and playing a part in allowing them that lifestyle. Any time I am tempted to buy a football ticket I need to remember men like Kyle Walker and the Liverpool goalkeeper.

RasTa

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I hope all those people still working have taken a pay cut, to do their part.

Well I'm working 50+hrs a week over here atm, key worker pal. The business owners are taking the hit offering free services and discounts for key workers, homeless etc.

What are you doing?

brinty

6 wrote:

Mick Carton, Dublin hurler got the virus. Young and fit but still ended up on oxygen in hospital for 4 days. Says he struggled to beat it. Scary the amount of young people ending up in hospital.

Good job we didn't implement Harry's suggestion of infecting all players with it and seeing who survives so isn't it

Mitch Connor

RasTa wrote: »

Well I'm working 50+hrs a week over here atm, key worker pal. The business owners are taking the hit offering free services and discounts for key workers, homeless etc.

What are you doing?

i had the week off, but the wife has been working in the hospital, as usual.

Back to work myself tomorrow.

My families business has been shut down, and my mother lost her job, so i'm helping her out at the moment. Family business will be offering free service to HSE staff once they open again.

Thanks for your interest in my life, no idea what it has to do with players taking a pay-cut to protect multi-billion pound businesses.

brinty

LoughNeagh2017 wrote:

Is that who children have as icons nowadays? Kyle Walker? Mine was Gianfranco Zola, you wouldn't have seen him organise a sex party with two escorts. Imagine paying to watch these men and playing a part in allowing them that lifestyle. Any time I am tempted to buy a football ticket I need to remember men like Kyle Walker and the Liverpool goalkeeper.

Careful now, what proof do you have off the Liverpool keeper doing anything at all? I know what you're talking about 😉 but that's what you're going to be asked

https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1246840018502651904?s=09

Solid source

brinty

Deleted User wrote:

Solid source

Not according to some

CSF

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

Is that who children have as icons nowadays? Kyle Walker? Mine was Gianfranco Zola, you wouldn't have seen him organise a sex party with two escorts. Imagine paying to watch these men and playing a part in allowing them that lifestyle. Any time I am tempted to buy a football ticket I need to remember men like Kyle Walker and the Liverpool goalkeeper.

If you dislike football, why would you post here?

Chuck Noland

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Though if it is being played behind closed doors... I wonder if they could change where games are played.

The idea of playing a World Cup like tournement could be a goer, in some aspects.

Play all the matches at a small number of Stadiums over the course of a few weeks - so Liverpoool aren't playing at Anfield or United aren't playing at Old Traffford.

If you aren't playing at your own stadium, the mass gathering of local fans is far less likely.

Who will agree to this? Playing at “home” has more advantages then just the fans singing. Familiarity of the pitch, home dressing rooms, match day routines etc. West Ham (for example) are due to play Villa at home in the final game. Do you think West Ham will agree to lose home advantage in a match that could affect the very future of their club?

The_Kew_Tour

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1246840018502651904?s=09

Solid source

Be a shame as we have good chance in EL. But only thing that matters is people get better and virus comes to halt(if possible)

The big problem too is that UK will be probably one of last countries to have a handle on this. Other countries like a Spain and Italy will hopefully be coming to life again but UK will Be behind. Best thing that could happen to UK is to piss rain for next 2 months

Zebra3

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

Mine was Gianfranco Zola, you wouldn't have seen him organise a sex party with two escorts.

How do you know what Zola did or didn't do in his private life?

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1246840018502651904?s=09

Solid source

much easier to abandon cup competitions, as the games are not certainties for the clubs involved.

In the PL each club is sure of 38 matches, 19 home and away. For FA Cup, EL, CL etc they can only be sure of the respective first round or group matches.

There would be TV and sponsor issues for Uefa to deal with, but the ending of Cup competitions must be logistically easier.

ricero

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

Is that who children have as icons nowadays? Kyle Walker? Mine was Gianfranco Zola, you wouldn't have seen him organise a sex party with two escorts. Imagine paying to watch these men and playing a part in allowing them that lifestyle. Any time I am tempted to buy a football ticket I need to remember men like Kyle Walker and the Liverpool goalkeeper.

Hahaha did you fall for the picture circulating the other week of Dan Blizerian (a Las Vegas playboy type) in bed with four women and a caption saying it was Liverpool's goalkeeper Alisson who bares a somewhat striking resemblance?

brinty

ricero wrote:

Hahaha did you fall for the picture circulating the other week of Dan Blizerian (a Las Vegas playboy type) in bed with four women and a caption saying it was Liverpool's goalkeeper Alisson who bares a somewhat striking resemblance?

Like clockwork

Mitch Connor

Chuck Noland wrote: »

Who will agree to this? Playing at “home” has more advantages then just the fans singing. Familiarity of the pitch, home dressing rooms, match day routines etc. West Ham (for example) are due to play Villa at home in the final game. Do you think West Ham will agree to lose home advantage in a match that could affect the very future of their club?

if they need to complete the matches in order to not have to pay back huge TV money, they may be more amenable to giving up home advantage when you'd have no fans turning up anyway.

If they want to finish the season, there is going to have to be some creative plans and actions to get it done.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

much easier to abandon cup competitions, as the games are not certainties for the clubs involved.

In the PL each club is sure of 38 matches, 19 home and away. For FA Cup, EL, CL etc they can only be sure of the respective first round or group matches.

There would be TV and sponsor issues for Uefa to deal with, but the ending of Cup competitions must be logistically easier.

I only read here UEFA were threatening Football associations if they don't complete their respective leagues yesterday

Won't matter a damn going on the above now if it reaches September which is highly possible

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Be a shame as we have good chance in EL. But only thing that matters is people get better and virus comes to halt(if possible)

The big problem too is that UK will be probably one of last countries to have a handle on this. Other countries like a Spain and Italy will hopefully be coming to life again but UK will Be behind. Best thing that could happen to UK is to piss rain for next 2 months

How can the virus come to a halt without a vaccine? It's whack a mole until that happens unfortunately

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Be a shame as we have good chance in EL. But only thing that matters is people get better and virus comes to halt(if possible)

The big problem too is that UK will be probably one of last countries to have a handle on this. Other countries like a Spain and Italy will hopefully be coming to life again but UK will Be behind. Best thing that could happen to UK is to piss rain for next 2 months

Weeks behind Italy and Spain and they are already losing control

Not many taking the lockdown seriously at all

Mitch Connor

6 wrote: »

How can the virus come to a halt without a vaccine? It's whack a mole until that happens unfortunately

a level of herd immunity and a significant treatment plan will see normality return.

If they reduce mortality levels, governments will be far more comfortable with everything.

The_Kew_Tour

6 wrote: »

How can the virus come to a halt without a vaccine? It's whack a mole until that happens unfortunately

You're right it probably wont. By time everyone recovers etc will take lot of time.

I can't see lockdown lasting 6 months or more though. I think we slowly go back to some bit of normal life in june/july.

The more bad weather the better. Will keep people inside

The_Kew_Tour

Deleted User wrote: »

Weeks behind Italy and Spain and they are already losing control

Not many taking the lockdown seriously at all

Yep Parks and Beeches are disaster over there at minute

Chuck Noland

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You're right it probably wont. By time everyone recovers etc will take lot of time.

I can't see lockdown lasting 6 months or more though. I think we slowly go back to some bit of normal life in june/july.

The more bad weather the better. Will keep people inside

On the flip side it’s heat and good weather kill the virus faster

Iused2likebusts

Chuck Noland wrote: »

The biggest worry here is the drain on the emergency services when they are needed else where. A quick look online shows all the morons in the uk ignoring the social distancing and stay at home orders and packing parks and towns over the weekends. If the PL restarts you will have thousands of idiots outside football grounds at every game

The peak will have passed when they restart behind closed doors so it wont be a drain on the emergency services. We arent talking about restarting it in the next 2 or 3 weeks you have to try visualise the situation in a few months time. You are also guessing that there will be thousands outside a ground. People are much more aware of the issues now compared to when thousands gathered outside that psg game. If football cant restart business in general cant restart. The money isnt there to let everyone sit at home till a vaccine is found so solutions will have to be found. All businesses will need to be creative once the surge has passed. We as a society will have to make things work as best we can. Do you see us in July looking at hundreds of deaths a day in the UK. Massive restrictions in place and governments around the world still paying out all the money they are.

The_Kew_Tour

Chuck Noland wrote: »

On the flip side it’s heat and good weather kill the virus faster

I actually dont think Heat kills this off at all. That's the problem with this virus.

brinty

The_Kew_Tour wrote:

Yep Parks and Beeches are disaster over there at minute

It's a joke, they still haven't got it right. Their political leader and minister for health got the virus but people still not taking it seriously.

They'll be so far behind Italy, Spain and ourselves that it'll take them months longer to recover.

And that will drain all medical and policing resources. There's no chance anyone can and should be available to cover insignificant football matches.