Football & Coronavirus [READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST - updated 06-05-20]

RasTa

RasTa wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1253387868308987905

No surprise there.

I'd say most of next season in England could potentially have no fans.

Sky and BT will have bumper subscriptions.

niallo27

Mitch Connor wrote: »

My wife is a nurse and I was chatting to her about it the other night.

She reckons you would need to be testing (and doing a full test) 36 hours before a game to have a proper result. The 'quick' tests that are done that she has seen would only have accurate positive results, there would be cases where they don't pick up a positive case, so i negative result isn't proof you're good.

She reckons the best way of handling it would be tests 36 hours before the game, and then also the quicker result test the day of the game.

But she also reckons it isn't practical for football to return as the incubation period is too high, tests taking too long (for a completely accurate result) and too much sweat/contact etc.

You are looking at up to 600 tests per match - (200 staff per match, 3 tests prior). So 55,000 tests just to complete the league matches. The clubs would need to be able to source and conduct the tests themselves, without taking away from any testing the NHS is looking to do (even taking into account that there should be less stress on the NHS when football is allowed to return)

EDIT: And while saying my wife is a nurse I'm not claiming she is an expert on all of this, just that she would have a much better understanding of testing and results that I would (and how to make a bed)

Why would you need to test all 200 staff though, it would be just the players that would be need to be tested, 90% of staff can maintain social distancing. I am back working this week and nobody is getting tested.

y0ssar1an22

niallo27 wrote: »

Why would you need to test all 200 staff though, it would be just the players that would be need to be tested, 90% of staff can maintain social distancing. I am back working this week and nobody is getting tested.

do you spit in close proximity to your colleagues?

niallo27

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

do you spit in close proximity to your colleagues?

No, i dont. I do not get your point. I am talking about non playing staff.

Liam O

niallo27 wrote: »

Why would you need to test all 200 staff though, it would be just the players that would be need to be tested, 90% of staff can maintain social distancing. I am back working this week and nobody is getting tested.

You think a club's physios, doctors, screaming coaches discussing tactics on a clipboard/tablet/notepad (going to happen) could or would maintain social distancing? How do you propose something like that would be achieved? Just the manager on the sideline and if a player gets injured they deal with it themselves?

y0ssar1an22

niallo27 wrote: »

No, i dont. I do not get your point. I am talking about non playing staff.

my bad, was talking about the players/ref/manager/physio.

my point is that its impossible in that environment to maintain social distancing. sweat aside, you have at least 42 ( 2 x squads, 4 officials, 2 managers, at the very least) people breathing heavily in close proximity.

someone above suggested masks which is an interesting idea. I'm surprised it hasn't been floated by (say) neville, carragher.

but the PL is all about the community so they cannot do that and leave the NHS/nursing homes high and dry.

niallo27

Liam O wrote: »

You think a club's physios, doctors, screaming coaches discussing tactics on a clipboard/tablet/notepad (going to happen) could or would maintain social distancing? How do you propose something like that would be achieved? Just the manager on the sideline and if a player gets injured they deal with it themselves?

I accept your point. Lets say outside these people, lets say 30 are directly involved, that leaves 170 other staff. Do you still think all 200 need to be tested.

Liam O

niallo27 wrote: »

I accept your point. Lets say outside these people, lets say 30 are directly involved, that leaves 170 other staff. Do you still think all 200 need to be tested.

So 60 people potentially infecting each other based on your number and that is not including the other players they would interact with at training, the player's families or any other staff they come in contact with. Each person in close enough contact with 20-30 others minimum every week who infection could be passed between.

If they can come up with a safe way for this to occur in the next couple of months at the height of infection fair play to them, I harbour my doubts.

Rapid tests would sort it. Must be someone developing them. Then mass produce them.

niallo27

Liam O wrote: »

So 60 people potentially infecting each other based on your number and that is not including the other players they would interact with at training, the player's families or any other staff they come in contact with. Each person in close enough contact with 20-30 others minimum every week who infection could be passed between.

If they can come up with a safe way for this to occur in the next couple of months at the height of infection fair play to them, I harbour my doubts.

That is a different discussion, my point was that all 200 staff would not need to be tested. There will have to be a solution to this, not just in football, we will have to learn to live with this virus. Other countries seems to be trialing playing football in the next few months, lets see how they get on.

niallo27

6 wrote: »

Rapid tests would sort it. Must be someone developing them. Then mass produce them.

There is the problem that if someone tests positive, it would mean the whole team would need to isolate.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

There is the problem that if someone tests positive, it would mean the whole team would need to isolate.

Currently, but technology and testing will advance.

Cantona's Collars

Well they managed to test and get a result for Prince Charles in no time. Obviously being born into royalty and performing essential duties like waving and cutting ribbons are more important than anything else.

The UK couldn't even test frontline staff properly.

As it is we are basically having the same discussion as we had in the first few pages of this thread with new dates thrown in by UEFA and co.

For every good idea someone here has, there's always a pitfall waiting in the wings.

8-10

Trump was talking last night about the new Abbott Technologies point-of-care testing system. 5mins for a positive result, 13mins for a negative result from a small box the size of a toaster.

Testing technology is ramping up very fast

niallo27

8-10 wrote: »

Trump was talking last night about the new Abbott Technologies point-of-care testing system. 5mins for a positive result, 13mins for a negative result from a small box the size of a toaster.

Testing technology is ramping up very fast

What do we if a player tests positive on a Friday though.

Cantona's Collars

8-10 wrote: »

Trump was talking last night about the new Abbott Technologies point-of-care testing system. 5mins for a positive result, 13mins for a negative result from a small box the size of a toaster.

Testing technology is ramping up very fast

Trump was also talking about using bleach.

Drumpot

niallo27 wrote: »

What do we if a player tests positive on a Friday though.

That’s a very good question. I would also wonder if some players may refuse to play if there were positive cases tested the day before on rival teams or even their own team.

I’m guessing there will have to be an acceptance from the majority that they are going to have to just carry on. The Germans appear to be going back very quickly to football , if that goes well I presume the rest will just fall in line.

That said, I did see reports of 5 scuba diving people who had a very mild dose of COVID19 but it changed their lungs to the point where it’s not safe for them to dive anymore. You only need one example of a footballer who suffers a similar fate (where they can’t get as fit or maintain high levels) to throw it all into doubt.

Liam O

Drumpot wrote: »

That’s a very good question. I would also wonder if some players may refuse to play if there were positive cases tested the day before on rival teams or even their own team.

I’m guessing there will have to be an acceptance from the majority that they are going to have to just carry on. The Germans appear to be going back very quickly to football , if that goes well I presume the rest will just fall in line.

That said, I did see reports of 5 scuba diving people who had a very mild dose of COVID19 but it changed their lungs to the point where it’s not safe for them to dive anymore. You only need one example of a footballer who suffers a similar fate (where they can’t get as fit or maintain high levels) to throw it all into doubt.

You would think that players would be looking at a level of insurance for that though it would be difficult to prove you got it from playing I guess.

Some people do seem to see them as the guinea pigs as Rooney said though I'm starting to realise.

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

That’s a very good question. I would also wonder if some players may refuse to play if there were positive cases tested the day before on rival teams or even their own team.

I’m guessing there will have to be an acceptance from the majority that they are going to have to just carry on. The Germans appear to be going back very quickly to football , if that goes well I presume the rest will just fall in line.

That said, I did see reports of 5 scuba diving people who had a very mild dose of COVID19 but it changed their lungs to the point where it’s not safe for them to dive anymore. You only need one example of a footballer who suffers a similar fate (where they can’t get as fit or maintain high levels) to throw it all into doubt.

I wonder, if everyone else tests negative is it just treated like any other injury? Rightly or wrongly, I think that is what would happen.

MeMen2_MoRi_

https://mobile.twitter.com/Conflits_FR/status/1253421315513438209

Junior sambia 23 yr old Montpellier player, in intensive care because of Covid19.

Chuck Noland

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/Conflits_FR/status/1253421315513438209

Junior sambia 23 yr old Montpellier player, in intensive care because of Covid19.

Presumably a very fit and healthy young man right there. That’s eye opening. I cant see what measures the PL can put in place to avoid this tho. As said above what will happen if a player test positive? We should get some idea from the Germans soon tho I guess.

gstack166

https://twitter.com/goal/status/1253707849529806849?s=21

gimli2112

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Trump was also talking about using bleach.

not just using it but injecting it into your veins. manufacturers and medical professionals have been falling all over themselves trying to tell people not to. You'd have to imagine the thought process of someone filling a syringe with bleach. "I'm not really sure this is a good idea but Trump said to do it"

Guy:Incognito

gimli2112 wrote: »

not just using it but injecting it into your veins. manufacturers and medical professionals have been falling all over themselves trying to tell people not to. You'd have to imagine the thought process of someone filling a syringe with bleach. "I'm not really sure this is a good idea but Trump said to do it"

If nothing else, what sort of an idiot is he that he thinks a live press conference is the place to ask random questions on his theories to the medical staff? A child could comprehend that thats a conversation you have beforehand and the press conference should be a time for clear and concise transmission of important information to the public, not "Donalds musings hour".

Hes leaning in to his "I could shoot a person in the street" philosophy and his idiot supporters are lapping it up and falling over themselves to defend him.

Chuck Noland

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11978351/ajax-denied-title-as-dutch-eredivisie-season-declared-void




Dutch league declared null and void

~Rebel~

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If nothing else, what sort of an idiot is he that he thinks a live press conference is the place to ask random questions on his theories to the medical staff? A child could comprehend that thats a conversation you have beforehand and the press conference should be a time for clear and concise transmission of important information to the public, not "Donalds musings hour".

Hes leaning in to his "I could shoot a person in the street" philosophy and his idiot supporters are lapping it up and falling over themselves to defend him.

Same as his new immigrant ban. It accomplishes nothing really, but just the words 'immigrant ban' go down very well with his base.

He's using every chance he gets to campaign for reelection rather than actually deal with the problem. Even the Covid-19 literature... I flew back from LA after all this stuff started up, and my flight had a layover in Toronto, so i've seen the literature from 3 countries. Ireland's advice was shown to be from the HSE. Canada's advice was shown to be from the Public Health Agency of Canada. What's on the American one? In massive bold letters on the front; "President Trump's Coronavirus Guidelines For America". All about branding, at every opportunity.

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I wonder, if everyone else tests negative is it just treated like any other injury? Rightly or wrongly, I think that is what would happen.

Yeh, I think after maybe an initial furore it will just become part of the sport especially if no vaccine happens anytime soon.

Guy:Incognito

Chuck Noland wrote: »

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11978351/ajax-denied-title-as-dutch-eredivisie-season-declared-void




Dutch league declared null and void

Was always going to go that way when the government banned sport until September.

Drumpot

Chuck Noland wrote: »

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11978351/ajax-denied-title-as-dutch-eredivisie-season-declared-void




Dutch league declared null and void

Wow and the UK are possibly the worst placed country to ease restrictions anytime soon. On the flip side for the EPL is that the UK government are not the sharpest tools so they could prob be convinced to let them play games with the right incentives....

El Gato De Negocios

gstack166 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/goal/status/1253707849529806849?s=21

Obviously not nearly as lucrative as the PL but is this the first of the "bigger" leagues to declare this?

Bit of bum clenching going on around Merseyside at the news one feels.

gstack166

Statutory Ape wrote: »

Obviously not nearly as lucrative as the PL but is this the first of the "bigger" leagues to declare this?

Bit of bum clenching going on around Merseyside at the news one feels.

It’s the first and one would assume not the last.

Mitch Connor

Chuck Noland wrote: »

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11978351/ajax-denied-title-as-dutch-eredivisie-season-declared-void




Dutch league declared null and void

Sky have not got that correct.

The season has been ended, it has not been declared null and void. Ajax have qualified for the CL based on neing in 1st, AZ have qualified based on being in 2nd etc - the positions of the clubs at the point the season was suspended have been retained, so the season has absolutely not been delcared null and void.

gstack166

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Sky have not got that correct.

The season has been ended, it has not been declared null and void. Ajax have qualified for the CL based on neing in 1st, AZ have qualified based on being in 2nd etc - the positions of the clubs at the point the season was suspended have been retained, so the season has absolutely not been delcared null and void.

There has been no relegations nor has a champion been declared so what else but null and void would you call it?

Mitch Connor

gstack166 wrote: »

There has been no relegations nor has a champion been declared so what else but null and void would you call it?

Ended.

if it was null and void it would be as if the seaosn did not happen. Which would not have resulted in the teams qualifying for Europe based on the positions they were in the league. IE. Performance in the league this season has dictated qualification. THerefor, not null and void.

If the PL is ended as is, with CL and EL qualification being decided on current positions, it has not been declared null and void.

~Rebel~

gstack166 wrote: »

There has been no relegations nor has a champion been declared so what else but null and void would you call it?

Seems like whatever you choose to call it, the only thing you definitely wouldn't call it is null & void. Null & void means its treated as if the season never took place, which isn't the case. I'd call it a compromise..

BrookieD

Given where they stand with games left its the right call - The EPL however is different - the points spread is much greater


# Team Pl W D L F A GD Pts
1 Ajax 25 18 2 5 68 23 45 56
2 AZ Alkmaar 25 18 2 5 54 17 37 56
3 Feyenoord 25 14 8 3 50 35 15 50
4 PSV Eindhoven 26 14 7 5 54 28 26 49

gstack166

BrookieD wrote: »

Given where they stand with games left its the right call - The EPL however is different - the points spread is much greater


# Team Pl W D L F A GD Pts
1 Ajax 25 18 2 5 68 23 45 56
2 AZ Alkmaar 25 18 2 5 54 17 37 56
3 Feyenoord 25 14 8 3 50 35 15 50
4 PSV Eindhoven 26 14 7 5 54 28 26 49

Different how? Ajax are top, by whatever margin they are top. Would be easier to declare them joint champions or have a one off playoff game between them when football can resume than to just not crowning a team at all.

Ajax should of just been awarded the title likewise with Liverpool if England do the same.

yabadabado

EPL could do the very same ,just end it based on current standings.

Its not null and void so doesn't break rank with UEFA proposals.

Mitch Connor

gstack166 wrote: »

Different how? Ajax are top, by whatever margin they are top. Would be easier to declare them joint champions or have a one off playoff game between them when football can resume than to just being crowning a team at all.

Ajax should of just been awarded the title likewise with Liverpool if England do the same.

Well no, Feyenoord are only 6 points off and PSV 7, that could be made up.

(my personal opinion is I'd have no real objection to Liverpool being declared champs, given its is nigh on impossible to think they could be caught)

Guy:Incognito

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Well no, Feyenoord are only 6 points off and PSV 7, that could be made up.

(my personal opinion is I'd have no real objection to Liverpool being declared champs, given its is nigh on impossible to think they could be caught)

This is keeping the merry-go-round of the same topic going but the real issues are at the other end and the top of the championship. Villa get rode because of their game in hand , or Leeds and West Brom get rode by not getting promoted and losing huge amounts of money. If you promote the 2 of them and dont relegate anyone, then thats not fair on the teams going for promotion.

If it was a straight 3 down , 3 up it might be a bit easier. But that doesn't resolve Villa's game in hand.

The Dutch ban until Sept meant that even if everything gets back going and they finished out the league, it'd be November before next season started at the earliest.

ebbsy

gstack166 wrote: »

Different how? Ajax are top, by whatever margin they are top. Would be easier to declare them joint champions or have a one off playoff game between them when football can resume than to just being crowning a team at all.

Ajax should of just been awarded the title likewise with Liverpool if England do the same.

Have to agree with ya there. A playoff would have been a good idea.

ebbsy

The Dutch FA could not get agreement from the clubs how to proceed, so it took the decision itself.

That is not the case in England ?

Fitz*

ebbsy wrote: »

Have to agree with ya there. A playoff would have been a good idea.

Maybe a play off can be played in Holland when it's safe to do so, to award the title as both teams have equal points.

Richard Hillman

The way I'm seeing it is that UEFA are saying, the transfer windows will be opening as normal and your next season leagues need to be wrapped up by Euro2021. Next seasons Champions League will be going on as normal. Have your spots sorted out by June 30th.

The whole of Europe can't just wait because of Liverpool haven't won the league since 19 dickety click. Just hand them the league title with an Astrix and everyone can move on.

Guy:Incognito

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The way I'm seeing it is that UEFA are saying, the transfer windows will be opening as normal and your next season leagues need to be wrapped up by Euro2021. Next seasons Champions League will be going on as normal. Have your spots sorted out by June 30th.

The whole of Europe can't just wait because of Liverpool haven't won the league since 19 dickety click.

Well thats clearly not true. Unless they vastly change the definition of "normal". The qualifying rounds start in June. As it stands there wont be any Dutch teams taking part till September. In reality, they will have to make a lot of changes and compromises for next seasons CL.

As for last bit. Villa? Leeds? West Brom? Play off winners? Same for League 1 and 2?

ebbsy

I wouldn't care less how Liverpool win the title, whether it is on the pitch, given to them by the league, or in a courtroom

As long as they get it.

.G.

ebbsy wrote: »

The Dutch FA could not get agreement from the clubs how to proceed, so it took the decision itself.

That is not the case in England ?

The English FA have no say over what the Premier league do as the Premier league is it's own entity. Same way they have no say over what the Football league does.

Fitz*

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The way I'm seeing it is that UEFA are saying, the transfer windows will be opening as normal and your next season leagues need to be wrapped up by Euro2021. Next seasons Champions League will be going on as normal. Have your spots sorted out by June 30th.

The whole of Europe can't just wait because of Liverpool haven't won the league since 19 dickety click. Just hand them the league title with an Astrix and everyone can move on.

It's not about Liverpool - that's literally the easiest decision to make in European football.

The decision is centred around promotion and relegation. Why should Norwich , Villa, Bournemouth & West Ham etc be rewarded with another season in the PL when they don't deserve it? They'll get another 100m in the bank and will drive another wedge into the gap between the PL and the rest of the leagues, who's clubs will be worse off for this.

Why should Leeds & WBA not be promoted again this season after putting the work in for multiple seasons. They have pumped big money into getting promoted this season too. This is the last year of WBA getting parachute payments and so have spent accordingly to get them into the PL. They have spent big getting in Slaven Bilic as manager and Leeds have done the same getting in Bielsa, both in the expectation that they gain promotion.

ozzy jr

Don't worry, the greed in the Premier League will ensure they finish the season somehow.

yabadabado

FitzShane wrote: »

It's not about Liverpool - that's literally the easiest decision to make in European football.

The decision is centred around promotion and relegation. Why should Norwich , Villa, Bournemouth & West Ham etc be rewarded with another season in the PL when they don't deserve it? They'll get another 100m in the bank and will drive another wedge into the gap between the PL and the rest of the leagues, who's clubs will be worse off for this.

Why should Leeds & WBA not be promoted again this season after putting the work in for multiple seasons. They have pumped big money into getting promoted this season too. This is the last year of WBA getting parachute payments and so have spent accordingly to get them into the PL. They have spent big getting in Slaven Bilic as manager and Leeds have done the same getting in Bielsa, both in the expectation that they gain promotion.

Exactly it makes no odds to the top of the table its the relegation/promotion scenario that is most important in the Premiership.