Football & Coronavirus [READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST - updated 06-05-20]

fyfe79

Is there any data available on whether or not COVID-19 has actually been the cause of death for the 1,100+ people in this country? The average age of victims is 82 which I was thinking must be around the average age of death in Ireland. Just checked and the average age of death, under normal conditions, is indeed 82 years old (81.96, to be exact, in 2017).

Due to the increased testing in nursing homes and hospitals lately showing up more and more confirmed cases, is it possible that a lot of these cases are asymptomatic? I’m thinking of Kenny Dalglish testing positive for COVID as he was only checked because he attended hospital for a different reason. If an elderly person dies, are they considered COVID victims if they carry the virus? Essentially, has the 1,100+ death toll been filtered to remove the asymptomatic, or are they included?

pjohnson

niallo27 wrote: »

All the utd boys thanking this, **** me you lot really want this league not to continue. Just come out and say it.

There are people dying in the thousands. Do you think they are all dying as an anti Liverpool conspiracy?

Chuck Noland

~Rebel~ wrote: »

If they don’t finish the league I reckon they’ll grab certainty wherever they can find it to make the whole outcome feel at least somewhat worthwhile. They’ve made no secret that they’re desperate to provide something as close to completion as they can get, and nothing accomplishes that like naming a champion - and it just so happens there’s no easier decision this year than that, given the gap.

Especially in contrast to the decision on European spots, which they’ll also have to award based on sporting merit as best they can. With everything else in mind, and the weighing of pros and cons they’ll do, I’ve literally no doubt that Liverpool will be named champions. It’s an easy win for them, can’t really be met by any credible complaint, and provides a nice positive and headline grabbing distraction in the face of what will otherwise be really bad news (that they can’t complete the season).

If Liverpool get awarded the 6 points required to win the title what’s to stop teams chasing Europe and fighting relegation from claiming they too should be awarded points? I’ve no doubt, should the league have been concluded that Liverpool would have won it but every single scenario, in all outcomes kicks up more questions then answers.

I previously said they might look to having a bigger league with West Brom & Leeds both in the PL next season to appease Sky and BT with more match’s but then you have the question of What happens if the league doesn’t start on time and they risk running out of time before the Euros.

People say they have to finish one season before starting the next but at the moment every question and scenario is like asking How long is a piece of string.
None of it is straight forward

gstack166

The latest proposals being put forward are genuinely insane. I don't believe for one second that most players will even contemplate going back under such farcical restrictions, and it's ultimately them who hold all the power here, not the clubs.

While most of the "clubs" will want to get the season finished for financial reasons, how many "teams" would be desperate to get this season again? A quick look at the PL table tells you not many. A handful at the absolute most have something to gain; the rest just have a boatload of risk, with nothing whatsoever in the reward column.

These proposals heighten the chance of injury, illness, serious health complications and even death. Why would any player who has nothing to gain even consider going back under such circumstances?

irelandrover

Chuck Noland wrote: »

If Liverpool get awarded the 6 points required to win the title what’s to stop teams chasing Europe and fighting relegation from claiming they too should be awarded points? I’ve no doubt, should the league have been concluded that Liverpool would have won it but every single scenario, in all outcomes kicks up more questions then answers.

I previously said they might look to having a bigger league with West Brom & Leeds both in the PL next season to appease Sky and BT with more match’s but then you have the question of What happens if the league doesn’t start on time and they risk running out of time before the Euros.

People say they have to finish one season before starting the next but at the moment every question and scenario is like asking How long is a piece of string.
None of it is straight forward

To be honest I'd expand the league next season to 22 teams. The clubs in Europe do not participate in the cups to make room for the extra games. Relegate 4 and promote 2 to get the league back to the correct size the following season.


In the championship expand the play-off positions to 8 teams to make up for some of the lost games. It also keeps it more interesting as more teams can get into the play-offs.

Chuck Noland

irelandrover wrote: »

To be honest I'd expand the league next season to 22 teams. The clubs in Europe do not participate in the cups to make room for the extra games. Relegate 4 and promote 2 to get the league back to the correct size the following season.


In the championship expand the play-off positions to 8 teams to make up for some of the lost games. It also keeps it more interesting as more teams can get into the play-offs.

But then what happens in September if the governments say no football till December? A 22 team league to be ran off before players leave to head to the Euros? It’s a minefield when you look past “but it has to finish”

The PFA have stayed very quiet on this. As said above if the players feel in danger will they want too play it out? It’s like the FA’s are all waiting on each other around Europe to blink first

irelandrover

Chuck Noland wrote: »

But then what happens in September if the governments say no football till December? A 22 team league to be ran off before players leave to head to the Euros? It’s a minefield when you look past “but it has to finish”

The PFA have stayed very quiet on this. As said above if the players feel in danger will they want too play it out? It’s like the FA’s are all waiting on each other around Europe to blink first

You can have rules in place before the start of next season so everyone is aware what happens if the season cant be played fully.



If less than 19 games played then league is void, between 20 and 30 then it goes to points per game, more than 30 and league table is final positions. Fixtures can be arranged so that all teams balance home and away games and teams are ranked at the start of the season so you play roughly the same amount of games against top 5, middle table and relegation teams.

Fitz*

gstack166 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/mailsport/status/1255640521348964355?s=21

Disgusting if true. Shows they don’t give 2 ****s about fans, players or clubs, it’s all about the money in their own pockets, nobody else’s. Can see a lot of people turning their backs on the game in the near future. They’re handling it all very badly.

So you're saying that if a squad player for any team tests positive, that every other game should straight away be canceled? What if Harvey Eillioy who is 17 and barely even makes the squad let alone play any matches for Liverpool contracts the virus? Does that mean that Watford and Burnley should be cancelled? Even though Watford & Burnely have no cases and will both not be playing Liverpool?

There are thousands of positive cases in other places of employment and one positive case does not mean that the place of employment has to immediately close and cease trading. Do factories have to close every single factory in their chain when one person tests positive? No. A few people that are in close quarters with that person are asked to self isolate and are put forward for testing. The room does not close, let alone that single factory and definitely not every single factory. Factories are the closest example I can think of to football, with people in close quarters all day during the work environment and in some cases side by side constantly.

Of course the scenario you want of every game being called off if one person associated with a club testing positive also gives a possibility of a club who want the season to be called off and finished which saves their place in the premier League. What is to say that one club won't exploit this they suddenly find that one of their video analysts who works once a week has suddenly contracted the virus with 2 games to go in which the club needs 6 points to survive and retain their place in the PL. Is this member of coaching staff testing positive a reason to cancel the whole season for every club and save that club from relegation with all the knock on effects for other leagues too? Call me a cynic but we know that clubs could do this.

Mitch Connor

gstack166 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/mailsport/status/1255640521348964355?s=21

Disgusting if true. Shows they don’t give 2 ****s about fans, players or clubs, it’s all about the money in their own pockets, nobody else’s. Can see a lot of people turning their backs on the game in the near future. They’re handling it all very badly.

anyone who thought football would return and this wasn't going to be the case is an absolute moron.

Football can never, ever, return if one positive test grinds it to a halt.

That is the same attitude as pretty much every other industry.

Has public transport ground to a halt because a bus driver got covid-19? Has Tesco ground to a half after a staff member got covid-19?

stesaurus

Mitch Connor wrote: »

anyone who thought football would return and this wasn't going to be the case is an absolute moron.

Football can never, ever, return if one positive test grinds it to a halt.

That is the same attitude as pretty much every other industry.

Has public transport ground to a halt because a bus driver got covid-19? Has Tesco ground to a half after a staff member got covid-19?

In fairness they are completely incomparable industries.
Nobody gets a bus to see the driver or goes to Tesco for the same.
Football players are the product.
The equivalent would be a steward getting covid which would have very little impact.

Shanotheslayer

Mitch Connor wrote: »

anyone who thought football would return and this wasn't going to be the case is an absolute moron.

Football can never, ever, return if one positive test grinds it to a halt.

That is the same attitude as pretty much every other industry.

Has public transport ground to a halt because a bus driver got covid-19? Has Tesco ground to a half after a staff member got covid-19?

The key thing there Mitch is they're essential services given the time. They can't go to a halt. That's not a choice. Football is a choice.

Mitch Connor

stesaurus wrote: »

In fairness they are completely incomparable industries.
Nobody gets a bus to see the driver or goes to Tesco for the same.
Football players are the product.
The equivalent would be a steward getting covid which would have very little impact.

How so?

The issue is surely around possibility of spread. Whether we go to Tesco to see the staff is not relevant.

Cantona's Collars

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

The key thing there Mitch is they're essential services given the time. They can't go to a halt. That's not a choice. Football is a choice.

You don't get on a bus and see a crowd of drivers grappling as one of them crosses a ball in.

Fitz*

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

You don't get on a bus and see a crowd of drivers grappling as one of them crosses a ball in.

You do where I'm from :pac:


On a serious note, if all 30 people involved in the on-pitch game are proven to be virus-free and have reported multiple negative tests in a row, then why is there a worry about grappling on the field?

FitzShane

FitzShane wrote: »

On a serious note, if all 30 people involved in the on-pitch game are proven to be virus-free and have reported multiple negative tests in a row, then why is there a worry about grappling on the field?

Exactly. And that's where football needs to be at.

Chuck Noland

irelandrover wrote: »

You can have rules in place before the start of next season so everyone is aware what happens if the season cant be played fully.



If less than 19 games played then league is void, between 20 and 30 then it goes to points per game, more than 30 and league table is final positions. Fixtures can be arranged so that all teams balance home and away games and teams are ranked at the start of the season so you play roughly the same amount of games against top 5, middle table and relegation teams.

Good option but wonder how difficult it will be to implement. If teams advance in Europe and have games in hand it might mess that up. Once the German league restarts hopefully we get some more answers.

irelandrover

Chuck Noland wrote: »

Good option but wonder how difficult it will be to implement. If teams advance in Europe and have games in hand it might mess that up. Once the German league restarts hopefully we get some more answers.

Yeah, i see difficulties as well. You could even give a weighting to home and away in a points per game scenario.


My main thinking is that this could all be known before the season starts so there is a fairness to whatever the results are.

gstack166

Chuck Noland wrote: »

Good option but wonder how difficult it will be to implement. If teams advance in Europe and have games in hand it might mess that up. Once the German league restarts hopefully we get some more answers.

Merkel has a briefing today and is expected to talk about the Bundesliga returning. The feeling has shifted a little over in Germany as to wether Football will resume in May or not. There’s an uneasy feeling over it coming back too soon I’ve read.

Talks about Macron reaching out to Germany, Italy, Spain and UK to try convince them not to restart football until September at the earliest seem to be gathering pace too. The Germans are expecting a decision one way or the other today.

Loafing Oaf

gstack166 wrote: »

Merkel has a briefing today and is expected to talk about the Bundesliga returning. The feeling has shifted a little over in Germany as to wether Football will resume in May or not. There’s an uneasy feeling over it coming back too soon I’ve read.

Talks about Macron reaching out to Germany, Italy, Spain and UK to try convince them not to restart football until September at the earliest seem to be gathering pace too. The Germans are expecting a decision one way or the other today.

I'm thinking they might defer the potential restart date for a couple of weeks...

citytillidie

Oh France want the others to call off their football so all focus will be on the Tour de France that they are still hoping to do

gstack166

citytillidie wrote: »

Oh France want the others to call off their football so all focus will be on the Tour de France that they are still hoping to do

It is interesting that their ban on sports ends just before the Tour alright.

RasTa

400 games to be played in order to finish off the season across the PL and lower divisions.

Mitch Connor

RasTa wrote: »

400 games to be played in order to finish off the season across the PL and lower divisions.

I genuinely thought L1 and L2 had already ended.

gstack166

https://twitter.com/telefootball/status/1255792548158857219?s=21

So before lockdown if a player tested positive the whole team went into isolation. Now it’s treated as an individual injury. Won’t sit well with the players this, cannot see this plan coming to fruition.

Mitch Connor

gstack166 wrote: »

It is interesting that their ban on sports ends just before the Tour alright.

I think that is conspriacy stuff there.

Its not like they banned sport to Aust 27th or Sep 13th or some wierd date.

They knocked out entire months. TdF was just not inside the current time frame.

gstack166

gstack166 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/telefootball/status/1255792548158857219?s=21

So before lockdown if a player tested positive the whole team went into isolation. Now it’s treated as an individual injury. Won’t sit well with the players this, cannot see this plan coming to fruition.

Why? Otherwise one positive test could isolate the whole team when they might be negative?

Mitch Connor

gstack166 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/telefootball/status/1255792548158857219?s=21

So before lockdown if a player tested positive the whole team went into isolation. Now it’s treated as an individual injury. Won’t sit well with the players this, cannot see this plan coming to fruition.

Before the lockdown there was no proper testing in place. there would be when they come back.

Full isolation is because of a lack of testing and not knowing who is or is not infected.

Testing reduces the need for isolation.

gstack166

https://twitter.com/mailsport/status/1255804072629800962?s=21

Sensible thing to do. Stick an asterisk next to it and move on.

Fair play.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

That's a terrible idea. The season isn't finished or had they mathematically won it already?

Mitch Connor

Kolton Weak Turf wrote: »

That's a terrible idea. The season isn't finished or had they mathematically won it already?

nope, they had not won it on points. 12 clear with a game in hand.

Fitz*

Kolton Weak Turf wrote: »

That's a terrible idea. The season isn't finished or had they mathematically won it already?

The season is finished in France. No sport allowed until August.

Fitz*

Promotion & Relegation places stick in France.

All of a sudden, the very vocal clubs like Watford, West Ham & Aston Villa who wanted the season scrapped are going to have to do a 180 and want the season played out.

https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1255808059873595392

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Why would they award them the league? Void it or continue it. There should be no other option.

Harry Palmr

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1255809630221058051

Can anyone see this full tweet or is it just a line?

Very odd.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

That's a terrible idea. The season isn't finished or had they mathematically won it already?

kksaints

Kolton Weak Turf wrote: »

That's a terrible idea. The season isn't finished or had they mathematically won it already?

No but they were well clear and it was just a matter of time before they did win it. If a league is not being restarted and there is a clear leader it makes sense to award them the title.

davemckenna25

Even if it does happen, they are being "Awarded the Title", not winning the Title.

I still think I'll wait on an official statement.
All the reports are linked to one article in L'Equipe.

irelandrover

I wouldn't expect PSG to accept the title. They declined it in 1993 when Marseille were stripped of the title and they were in second.

ShamoBuc

irelandrover wrote: »

I wouldn't expect PSG to accept the title. They declined it in 1993 when Marseille were stripped of the title and they were in second.

But this time, they are at the top and by some distance. They will of course accept it and correct to do so.

8-10

Kolton Weak Turf wrote: »

Why would they award them the league? Void it or continue it. There should be no other option.

There were 3 other options they discussed:

1. Points per game
2. Table as it stands now
3. Table as it stood on GW19, halfway point

Continuing wasn't seen as an option probably due to the government stance on organised sport but I would agree that this should have been the preferred option even if it's 2021 before the season resumes.

Of the above 3, they went with the 2nd one, which would be my preference too if I only had those 3 to choose from

However, note that all those 3 options result in places 1-4 being exactly the same and the same 3 clubs being relegated.

irelandrover

ShamoBuc wrote: »

But this time, they are at the top and by some distance. They will of course accept it and correct to do so.

They would be correct in your opinion. Lots of people would disagree.



I am only stating they didn't accept it last time they were offered a league and i don't expect them to accept it this time either.

giveitholly

irelandrover wrote: »

They would be correct in your opinion. Lots of people would disagree.



I am only stating they didn't accept it last time they were offered a league and i don't expect them to accept it this time either.

If they don't accept the league title then the teams who have secured european places can't except them either cuz they have been awarded them instead of winning the right to play in europe on the field of play

gstack166

irelandrover wrote: »

They would be correct in your opinion. Lots of people would disagree.



I am only stating they didn't accept it last time they were offered a league and i don't expect them to accept it this time either.

Didn’t Juventus already state that they would refuse the title if awarded without the conclusion of the league being played.

Mitch Connor

giveitholly wrote: »

If they don't accept the league title then the teams who have secured european places can't except them either cuz they have been awarded them instead of winning the right to play in europe on the field of play

That is utter rubbish.

Rayne Wooney

There’s probably no club over there that would contest that.

I’d imagine there will be a few powerful clubs in the PL that would contest handing out the title with 10 games left in some cases, it waters down every other league title. You win it in the games agreed at the beginning of the season, it doesn’t get any simpler than that really.

Gary Nevilles tweet hinting that there is a fear within the PL for anybody to take responsibility of starting up again, and I understand that because that person will be vilified if anything goes wrong.

giveitholly

Mitch Connor wrote: »

That is utter rubbish.

Why is that rubbish?

Harry Palmr

How does one refuse a title? What happens after that? Would UEFA refuse to allow that team to play in Europe?

gstack166

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How does one refuse a title? What happens after that? Would UEFA refuse to allow that team to play in Europe?

No, they’ll still be classed as champions by their football association but they’ll just refrain from listing it or referencing it in their honours list.

irelandrover

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How does one refuse a title? What happens after that? Would UEFA refuse to allow that team to play in Europe?

the club say no to the title, and european places are awarded based on league position. The same as happened in 1993, the last time PSG refused a league title they were awarded.


There is no winner of the 1993 title.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_football_champions

Collie D

irelandrover wrote: »

the club say no to the title, and european places are awarded based on league position. The same as happened in 1993, the last time PSG refused a league title they were awarded.

In 1993 they probably had more scrupulous owners.

Not that I’d begrudge them their title. Voiding seasons doesn’t sit well with me.