Football & Coronavirus [READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST - updated 06-05-20]

~Rebel~

davemckenna25 wrote: »

Or as little as this might lead to less legal cases after.

Yup, pretty much. So in contrast to your earlier post, I think it's actually quite likely we'll see a champion crowned without relegation, as the latter would be fairly fraught with legal challenges, while the former won't.

Rock77

FitzShane wrote: »

To be honest, in some cases I don't really. Well moreso, one example.

Toulouse in France are bottom of the league, 17 points away from safety with 10 games to go. Their previous form is 17 losses and 1 draw in 18 games.

Do Toulouse deserve relegation or to be rewarded by having another season in the top flight and a chance to start all over again?

They are 17 points away from safety and can still win 30 more points. They do not deserve to be relegated. Previous form has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Fitz*

Rock77 wrote: »

They are 17 points away from safety and can still win 30 more points. They do not deserve to be relegated. Previous form has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Previous form is an awful lot more accurate and factual than hypothetical scenarios.

8-10

Yeah all these teams that were only planning to peak and go on an unbeaten run from April are hard done by

citytillidie

Liverpool have come out with a statement on the mayors media interview

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/394555-liverpool-fc-statement-april-30-2020

As a club, we are aware of and disappointed by comments attributed to Mayor Joe Anderson in a media interview which was published today.

As well as a lack of evidence to support such claims, we would also point to recent discussions with Mayor Anderson relating to the possibility of any behind-closed-doors football, which concluded that it is important that key stakeholders across the city continue to engage and work collaboratively.

In recent weeks, we have engaged with supporters’ groups who have informed us of their determination to respect social distancing measures and, in the event of a resumption of football being announced, we would continue to work with them and other key stakeholders in keeping with our collective desire to achieve this crucial objective.

As part of our ongoing operations, we are in regular contact with the Mayor and his office and we hope these conversations can continue.

In the meantime, our primary focus remains responding to the humanitarian crisis which continues to unfold and in particular providing ongoing support to various NHS initiatives and those experiencing food poverty and social isolation.

eigrod

PSG situation looks to be official now

https://twitter.com/lfpfr/status/1255883399241371649?s=21

CSF

8-10 wrote: »

Yeah all these teams that were only planning to peak and go on an unbeaten run from April are hard done by

They are though. This happens bizarrely often. You can pretty much bank on the relegation teams beating the teams from 7th to 15th with f*ckall to play for routinely in the last weeks of the season.

Mitch Connor

Toulouse president threatening legal action. Unsurprisingly.

Fitz*

PSG are claiming the title anyways!

https://twitter.com/PSG_inside/status/1255887025665978376

gstack166

FitzShane wrote: »

PSG are claiming the title anyways!

https://twitter.com/PSG_inside/status/1255887025665978376

Don’t disagree with them claiming it at all but the celebrating of it so soon considering the state of their country is a bit classless imo.

irelandrover

FitzShane wrote: »

PSG are claiming the title anyways!

https://twitter.com/PSG_inside/status/1255887025665978376

I didn't think they would but clearly I was wrong. Let's see what their fans say.

ShamoBuc

No surprise that they did.

ShamoBuc

irelandrover wrote: »

I didn't think they would but clearly I was wrong. Let's see what their fans say.

I would imagine the majority of their fans are happy. Given the situation and the points lead I doubt they will turn their noses up at it.
Hard to celebrate it though. Plenty of wine at home and a few Zoom parties maybe!!

davemckenna25

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Yup, pretty much. So in contrast to your earlier post, I think it's actually quite likely we'll see a champion crowned without relegation, as the latter would be fairly fraught with legal challenges, while the former won't.

Why do one and not the other.

If you declare a title winner does that not strengthen the case for the championship teams who might look for relegation from the prem to allow them up.

I still think its both or none. Only way that makes full sense, even if some sections of fans might disagree.

ShamoBuc

davemckenna25 wrote: »

Why do one and not the other.

If you declare a title winner does that not strengthen the case for the championship teams who might look for relegation from the prem to allow them up.

I still think its both or none. Only way that makes full sense, even if some sections of fans might disagree.

No relegation and allow the teams to be promoted. Extra games and extra relegation places the following year.

davemckenna25

ShamoBuc wrote: »

No relegation and allow the teams to be promoted. Extra games and extra relegation places the following year.

But how will that work when people are so worried about next season already being disrupted. Surely adding in extra games can be helpful.

ShamoBuc

davemckenna25 wrote: »

But how will that work when people are so worried about next season already being disrupted. Surely adding in extra games can be helpful.

It would solve a big problem but maybe create a few smaller ones.

I don't think there is a one cap fits all style solution.
Problems and issues will arise no matter what way they do it.

Rock77

FitzShane wrote: »

Previous form is an awful lot more accurate and factual than hypothetical scenarios.

I’m not really sure what you mean? What hypothetical scenarios? I said a team 17 points from safety with 30 points available don’t deserve to be relegated right now. Surely you can see how unfair it is to relegate a them?

CSF

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Toulouse president threatening legal action. Unsurprisingly.

If there is nothing covering this within the league rules, then they are absolutely right to.

If there is a rule saying that the league has to be finished by a certain date or else it stands as is, then they won’t have a case.

Given how much money is involved for them, there can be no expectation of them to just turn the other cheek here.

Rock77

8-10 wrote: »

Yeah all these teams that were only planning to peak and go on an unbeaten run from April are hard done by

Some really silly things coming out here now..

There are always exciting finishes to the relegation battles, how many times have teams saved themselves on the last day? There’s 9 or 10 games left!

I’m sure every team is planning an unbeaten run.

I don’t think anyone even Watford fans expected them to beat Liverpool 3-0 this season.

Liverpool 3-0 down to Milan at half time. No chance give Milan the trophy.

City need 2 goals in a minute to win the league. No chance give Utd the title.

Utd vs Bayern 1999...

Now we want to relegate teams with 30 points still to play for.... crazy, crazy stuff

8-10

CSF wrote: »

They are though. This happens bizarrely often. You can pretty much bank on the relegation teams beating the teams from 7th to 15th with f*ckall to play for routinely in the last weeks of the season.

There's 9 games left. Last season in the PL, last 9 games of teams in the relegation zone (all could have won enough points to stay up):

Huddersfield: 2pts from 9
Fulham: 9pts from 9
Cardiff: 9pts from 9

That's an average of 0.74pts/game - all 3 teams went down

There might be the odd mad result like Cardiff beating United. But banking on these teams routinely winning? My sample size above is small but if you want to show some other seasons where unbeaten runs happened bizzarely often, maybe it happens routinely in Ligue 1?

Agent Coulson

UK past the peak.

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1255893414274633730?s=20

8-10

Rock77 wrote: »

There are always exciting finishes to the relegation battles, how many times have teams saved themselves on the last day?

Less than once per season at a complete guess - how many?

Cantona's Collars

6 wrote: »

Declared Asterix champions. Covers all bases!

You left out "unbearable" :)
Well you banged on about it enough times.
It should be copyrighted at this stage.

Or maybe *Wikipedia champions. :)

Fitz*

Rock77 wrote: »

I’m not really sure what you mean? What hypothetical scenarios? I said a team 17 points from safety with 30 points available don’t deserve to be relegated right now. Surely you can see how unfair it is to relegate a them?

Because you are saying that a team could make up a 17 point gap in 10 games, after only picking up 13 points from the previous 28 games. The also have to hope that the team in the position above the relegation zone don't pick up any more points in addition to this.

Based on their previous 10 games, Toulouse would pick up 1 point. Based on their previous 20 games, they would pick up 4 points. So to say that they would bridge the gap is fairly hypothetical stuff. Anything could happen but the more likely thing to happen is that they would still finish bottom of the table after losing most of the final 10 games.

Speaking of fairness, who deserves a place in Ligue 1 next season more? The team top of Ligue 2 who were en route to promotion, or the team bottom of Ligue 1, 17 points behind safety and en route to relegation?

Cantona's Collars

Was this posted?

https://twitter.com/TransferChecker/status/1255867699995054083

Rock77

FitzShane wrote: »

Because you are saying that a team could make up a 17 point gap in 10 games, after only picking up 13 points from the previous 28 games. The also have to hope that the team in the position above the relegation zone don't pick up any more points in addition to this.

Based on their previous 10 games, Toulouse would pick up 1 point. Based on their previous 20 games, they would pick up 4 points. So to say that will bridge the gap is fairly hypothetical stuff. Anything could happen but the more likely thing to happen is that they would still finish bottom of the table after losing most of the final 10 games.

Speaking of fairness, who deserves a place in Ligue 1 next season more? The team top of Ligue 2 who were en route to promotion, or the team bottom of Ligue 1, 17 points behind safety and en route to relegation?

Ah I see what you meant by hypothetical scenarios now. My point is those scenarios need to be played out before you relegate a team.

Based on their last 10 games they would only pick up 1 point??? What has their last 10 games got to do with their next 10? Look I’m not saying they definitely will avoid relegation but it’s clear for all to see that relegating any team that can still save themselves is unfair.

I’ve said before, unless the season restarts and all games are played nothing will be fair.

Cantona's Collars

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

You left out "unbearable" :)
Well you banged on about it enough times.
It should be copyrighted at this stage.

Or maybe *Wikipedia champions. :)

Sounds good

gstack166

https://twitter.com/gffn/status/1255858498627407878?s=21




Yeah well it doesn’t help when the chairman of a rival club in your league stands to hugely gain from it both in a financial and sporting sense to their season being cancelled.


BeIN Sports headed by Nasser El-Khelaifi refuse to make TV Rights payments as Ligue 1 due to a premature end to the season as PSG headed by Nasser El-Khelaifi are given the title. This story is worth keeping a close eye on

Rock77

8-10 wrote: »

Less than once per season at a complete guess - how many?

I haven’t a clue, I was asking you. Seeing as that’s the part of my post you picked out I will leave you to your opinion that teams should be relegated with 30 points still to play for just so Liverpool can be handed a title.

It’s all about the integrity of the league though yeah.

davemckenna25

8-10 wrote: »

There's 9 games left. Last season in the PL, last 9 games of teams in the relegation zone (all could have won enough points to stay up):

Huddersfield: 2pts from 9
Fulham: 9pts from 9
Cardiff: 9pts from 9

That's an average of 0.74pts/game - all 3 teams went down

There might be the odd mad result like Cardiff beating United. But banking on these teams routinely winning? My sample size above is small but if you want to show some other seasons where unbeaten runs happened bizzarely often, maybe it happens routinely in Ligue 1?

What about the 2006/07 season.
West Ham were 10 points off safety with 10 games to play. They stay up.
Its never over until its over.

8-10

Rock77 wrote: »

I haven’t a clue, I was asking you. Seeing as that’s the part of my post you picked out I will leave you to your opinion that teams should be relegated with 30 points still to play for just so Liverpool can be handed a title.

It’s all about the integrity of the league though yeah.

You're putting many words in my mouth there!

I don't agree with them being relegated, that isn't my opinion at all. As I've stated, my preference would be to play out the remaining games, even if it's 2021 before it's safe to do so.

8-10

davemckenna25 wrote: »

What about the 2006/07 season.
West Ham were 10 points off safety with 10 games to play. They stay up.
Its never over until its over.

I agree with you. I disagree that it happens bizarrely often and it's a banker for teams in the relegation zone to routinely beat teams in 7th-15th near the end of the season.

The fact that you're going back nearly 15 years to find an example shows that it's not something that happens bizarrely often

Fitz*

Rock77 wrote: »

Ah I see what you meant by hypothetical scenarios now. My point is those scenarios need to be played out before you relegate a team.

Based on their last 10 games they would only pick up 1 point??? What has their last 10 games got to do with their next 10? Look I’m not saying they definitely will avoid relegation but it’s clear for all to see that relegating any team that can still save themselves is unfair.

I’ve said before, unless the season restarts and all games are played nothing will be fair.

Yeah I agree, playing all games is the only fair option. Of course this is only in a safe environment. With every other permutation after that, someone is going to be put out.

I do think that basing a teams final position on what has happened rather than what could happen is fairer though myself.

Rock77

FitzShane wrote: »

Yeah I agree, playing all games is the only fair option. Of course this is only in a safe environment. With every other permutation after that, someone is going to be put out.

I do think that basing a teams final position on what has happened rather than what could happen is fairer though myself.

How would they base a teams final position off what could happen? I don’t understand the way your wording that.

If it’s not completed it’s either placed as they are or null and void. I’m not sure which of those is better but they are both extremely unfair on somebody.

gstack166

April-

1st : Canal+ & BeIN local broadcasters, suspend Ligue1 and 2 payments.

8/9th: LFP appoints PSG +& BeIN Chairman Nasser Al Khelaifi to negotiate with Canal+

27/28: Canal+ and BeIN arrive at a settlement with LFP

30th: Season is curtailed and PSG are Champs.

Just like with City and UEFA’s executive committee that Nasser Al Khelaifi is on also, a serious conflict of interest here and a massive breach of trust.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8178177/amp/beIN-SPORTS-withholding-Ligue-1-TV-money-coronavirus-shutdown.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rfi.fr/en/wires/20200409-psgs-al-khelaifi-firing-line-french-clubs-battle-tv-revenue

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2020/04/27/canal-and-bein-sports-make-peace-with-french-football-league/

davemckenna25

8-10 wrote: »

I agree with you. I disagree that it happens bizarrely often and it's a banker for teams in the relegation zone to routinely beat teams in 7th-15th near the end of the season.

The fact that you're going back nearly 15 years to find an example shows that it's not something that happens bizarrely often

Just the first that came up on google. I'm sure there are more but not going to look.

I agree its not the normal to be so far adrift and stay up but it can and does happen.
However I would say that I'd be surprised if the bottom 3 with 9 games left is normally the bottom 3 at the end.
Maybe someone has the time to check.... not me..:D

Tom Mann Centuria

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52493649

This will probably mean the demise of at least a couple of League clubs.

irelandrover

Leicester are the obvious team for this example. Took 22 points from the final 27 to stay up. And look at them now.

joe_99

gstack166 wrote: »

Don’t disagree with them claiming it at all but the celebrating of it so soon considering the state of their country is a bit classless imo.

Are people not allowed a bit of joy in these dark times?

8-10

davemckenna25 wrote: »

Just the first that came up on google. I'm sure there are more but not going to look.

I agree its not the normal to be so far adrift and stay up but it can and does happen.
However I would say that I'd be surprised if the bottom 3 with 9 games left is normally the bottom 3 at the end.
Maybe someone has the time to check.... not me..:D

I think the most obvious one recently was Leicester City. Bottom of the league with 9 games to go on 19pts in 2014/15. Went on a run of 7 wins and a draw in the last 9 and ended up in 14th place on 41pts!

Had the league ended after 29 games they'd have been the first ones relegated and would have been in the Championship in 2015/16.

Ended up staying up and having quite a good 2015/16 season in the Premier League!

gstack166

joe_99 wrote: »

Are people not allowed a bit of joy in these dark times?

If they want to get joy out of being declared champions early due to a pandemic that has cost thousands of lives in their own country whilst there owner contributes to the demise of the other clubs in the league then they can go ahead. Would emphasise my point even more about lacking class.

joe_99

gstack166 wrote: »

If they want to get joy out of being declared champions early due to a pandemic that has cost thousands of lives in their own country whilst there owner contributes to the demise of the other clubs in the league then they can go ahead. Would emphasise my point even more about lacking class.

I would hate to live with the doom you experience. Maybe talk to someone.

adaminho

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

You left out "unbearable" :)
Well you banged on about it enough times.
It should be copyrighted at this stage.

Or maybe *Wikipedia champions. :)

Maybe reset it to after 19 games?

Invincible's
Earliest league win?

gstack166

joe_99 wrote: »

I would hate to live with the doom you experience. Maybe talk to someone.

Doom I’m experiencing?

I’ve stated objective facts.

Fitz*

Rock77 wrote: »

How would they base a teams final position off what could happen? I don’t understand the way your wording that.

If it’s not completed it’s either placed as they are or null and void. I’m not sure which of those is better but they are both extremely unfair on somebody.

Yeah it's my wording.

So the league positions now are based on games that actually took place so it's factual. So i think that that is fairer method of determining the final positions than saying 'well we could have avoided relegation if we won all our remaining games so don't relegate anyone instead'. I think it favours the wrong set of of teams. It favours the teams that have had poor seasons so far and punishes the teams that so far have had very good seasons

As an aside, I'm also in favour of the (regular season) transfer window closing before the season starts so teams have to be well organised and their squad settled before the season starts instead of falling around on deadline day trying to get your striker in last minute for the whole season. I think it promotes a healthier environment within the club and more efficient recruitment.

I just think it's better to favour the teams that are better organised and have a plan in place for the season and are due a reward for the effort they have put in in the previous season over teams that scamper around for transfers at the last minute and clubs that could escape relegation due to a technicality.

Rock77

FitzShane wrote: »

Yeah it's my wording.

So the league positions now are based on games that actually took place so it's factual. So i think that that is fairer method of determining the final positions than saying 'well we could have avoided relegation if we won all our remaining games so don't relegate anyone instead'. I think it favours the wrong set of of teams. It favours the teams that have had poor seasons so far and punishes the teams that so far have had very good seasons

As an aside, I'm also in favour of the (regular season) transfer window closing before the season starts so teams have to be well organised and their squad settled before the season starts instead of falling around on deadline day trying to get your striker in last minute for the whole season. I think it promotes a healthier environment within the club and more efficient recruitment.

I just think it's better to favour the teams that are better organised and have a plan in place for the season and are due a reward for the effort they have put in in the previous season over teams that scamper around for transfers at the last minute and clubs that could escape relegation due to a technicality.

I see your thinking now, I still can’t see past the unfairness of relegating a team that could save themselves in the remaining games. Like I said before unless the season is completed when safe to do so it’s going to be unfair on somebody.

Cantona's Collars

adaminho wrote: »

Maybe reset it to after 19 games?

Invincible's
Earliest league win?

Lowest points total. Quite a few were crowing about points totals.

Anyhow.......

The PFA have been anonymous in all this and it's left up to individual players to give their opinions.

Cantona's Collars

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Lowest points total. Quite a few were crowing about points totals.

Anyhow.......

.

Some other team has that I think

gstack166

joe_99 wrote: »

I would hate to live with the doom you experience. Maybe talk to someone.

I love how it’s all Liverpool supporters liking your posts and the irony of ‘Rebel’ especially liking them considering I was talking about the deaths of thousands of people to which you accuse me of ‘living with doom’ considering the absolute sermons he’s posted about deaths in the Middle East in the Newcastle thread the last few days.

Just find it ironic. Won’t engage with either of ye on the topic again.