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Coronovirus - Gamsat MARCH 2020
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gradmed2020 wrote: »From my understanding of percentile curves, it is irrelevant how big of a sample size is taken for when calculating percentiles, that's the whole idea behind percentiles and how they work. I'm going to try get my hands on previous curves to see what's the comparison like. I have a feeling 10 percentile points variance will be sizeable in the Irish points system
I emailed ACER and they've replied saying ''Thank you for your message.
The percentile ranking is worldwide, it gives candidates an indication of how well they performed against other candidates in the same GAMSAT sitting''. From what I gathered, the percentile curve issued usually in September is country specific. The ones released usually in March would say ''GAMSAT Ireland March'' etc. On this occasion, however, because candidates worldwide sat under relatively similar conditions and over the same window they deemed it a percentile for everyone in the world.
The curve doesn't mean much. The number of applications and places and eligible people won't change much, statistically. So, as long as you scored what would've been in range for other years, I won't bat an eye. Celebrate. If you did not score what would've been in range the last few years don't worry. Give it another go and I wish you the very best! Cheers guys.0 -
NiceMedBoy wrote: »I emailed ACER and they've replied saying ''Thank you for your message.
The percentile ranking is worldwide, it gives candidates an indication of how well they performed against other candidates in the same GAMSAT sitting''. From what I gathered, the percentile curve issued usually in September is country specific. The ones released usually in March would say ''GAMSAT Ireland March'' etc. On this occasion, however, because candidates worldwide sat under relatively similar conditions and over the same window they deemed it a percentile for everyone in the world.
The curve doesn't mean much. The number of applications and places and eligible people won't change much, statistically. So, as long as you scored what would've been in range for other years, I won't bat an eye. Celebrate. If you did not score what would've been in range the last few years don't worry. Give it another go and I wish you the very best! Cheers guys.
I know people are saying ignore the curve but I don't see how points can't go up? I would love if they stayed the same but it seems illogicall they would stay the same....0 -
NiceMedBoy wrote: »I emailed ACER and they've replied saying ''Thank you for your message.
The percentile ranking is worldwide, it gives candidates an indication of how well they performed against other candidates in the same GAMSAT sitting''. From what I gathered, the percentile curve issued usually in September is country specific. The ones released usually in March would say ''GAMSAT Ireland March'' etc. On this occasion, however, because candidates worldwide sat under relatively similar conditions and over the same window they deemed it a percentile for everyone in the world.
The curve doesn't mean much. The number of applications and places and eligible people won't change much, statistically. So, as long as you scored what would've been in range for other years, I won't bat an eye. Celebrate. If you did not score what would've been in range the last few years don't worry. Give it another go and I wish you the very best! Cheers guys.
Thanks for this, all we can do is wait for the 8th0 -
Hi Folks, ok so I haven't been on boards for few weeks but to say I'm a little alarmed would be putting it lightly.. Firstly how is it all of sudden looking like 59/60 won't get Rcsi or UCD?? When those scores have for the last x amount of years running... And what's this about possible cheating in the march sitting? Is the march sitting the cause of the shift in the Bell curve!!!!? If so there will be protests.markocokram wrote: »Do people reckon a 63 will get RCSI this year?0 -
Hi Folks, ok so I haven't been on boards for few weeks but to say I'm a little alarmed would be putting it lightly.. Firstly how is it all of sudden looking like 59/60 won't get Rcsi or UCD?? When those scores have for the last x amount of years running... And what's this about possible cheating in the march sitting? Is the march sitting the cause of the shift in the Bell curve!!!!? If so there will be protests.
I would have a look at the Reddit forum, there are major discrepancies with results this year. Australians aren't happy about it at all and lots of people emailing ACER. Some people from certain days getting 90 and 100 in section 3, where these type of results rarely seen before. Other people previously getting 70 and 80s in section 2 in previous sittings dropping 20 points then so its working both ways, just basically pure pot luck. Not necessarily from cheating but from lack of standardisation to other sittings. Not surprised from the reddit, it seemed the exam was conducted very badly so can't expect the results to be any different. Austrailians seem agreed on the fact, the whole thing does seem unfair and very suspicious and are contacting universities. I doubt any changes will be made and ACER don't care tbh, but at least standing up for what is right which I admire.0 -
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The people posting here are not the only ones in the country who sat the exam. It’s a very small small percentage, and just because they scored higher than others, does not mean the exam was marked easier.
Less people (we presume) sat the exam giving the current pandemic. This will skew the results.
The average GAMSAT result last year was 59.
Last year people who landed in the 50th percentile scored a 59. If you scored a 63 you were in the 75th percentile.
This year going by the graph that circulating the people who landed in the 50th percentile scored a 60. It’s a one point difference, which would be largely due to the decrease of people sitting the exam.
This is obviously a very stressful situation for everyone. I do not think that it’s fair to be tearing other people down for securing a strong result. I for one studied excessively for a year. My mock exams reflected my final score.
If there is a obvious discrepancy the medical council and medical schools will act accordingly. I for one believe that interviews should be part of the process. However, giving we are such a small country, with very few schools, bias would occur with certain applicants.
And just a side note, if people have been told by others that they cheated on their exam, and openly stated this, they should be reported.0 -
PlumBella28 wrote: »The people posting here are not the only ones in the country who sat the exam. It’s a very small small percentage, and just because they scored higher than others, does not mean the exam was marked easier.
Less people (we presume) sat the exam giving the current pandemic. This will skew the results.
The average GAMSAT result last year was 59.
Last year people who landed in the 50th percentile scored a 59. If you scored a 63 you were in the 75th percentile.
This year going by the graph that circulating the people who landed in the 50th percentile scored a 60. It’s a one point difference, which would be largely due to the decrease of people sitting the exam.
This is obviously a very stressful situation for everyone. I do not think that it’s fair to be tearing other people down for securing a strong result. I for one studied excessively for a year. My mock exams reflected my final score.
If there is a obvious discrepancy the medical council and medical schools will act accordingly. I for one believe that interviews should be part of the process. However, giving we are such a small country, with very few schools, bias would occur with certain applicants.
And just a side note, if people have been told by others that they cheated on their exam, and openly stated this, they should be reported.
Plumbella, I agreed re Interviews, I'm absolutely think they should be part of the process. I do however hope you are right and action will be taken if the scoring/points turn out to be abnormally skewed. That just won't wash with the cohort who sat the exam in Sept. It's a bit of a messy situation by the sounds of it.0 -
PlumBella28 wrote: »The people posting here are not the only ones in the country who sat the exam. It’s a very small small percentage, and just because they scored higher than others, does not mean the exam was marked easier.
Less people (we presume) sat the exam giving the current pandemic. This will skew the results.
The average GAMSAT result last year was 59.
Last year people who landed in the 50th percentile scored a 59. If you scored a 63 you were in the 75th percentile.
This year going by the graph that circulating the people who landed in the 50th percentile scored a 60. It’s a one point difference, which would be largely due to the decrease of people sitting the exam.
This is obviously a very stressful situation for everyone. I do not think that it’s fair to be tearing other people down for securing a strong result. I for one studied excessively for a year. My mock exams reflected my final score.
If there is a obvious discrepancy the medical council and medical schools will act accordingly. I for one believe that interviews should be part of the process. However, giving we are such a small country, with very few schools, bias would occur with certain applicants.
And just a side note, if people have been told by others that they cheated on their exam, and openly stated this, they should be reported.
Congratulations on your mark and I am not in any way saying it is not deserved. In relation to reporting cheating, ACER facilitated a lack of standardisation in the process so I couldn't define the exam as candidates cheating, its not their fault ACER felt it was appropriate to reopen exams that candidates previously saw so I wouldn't see as reporting it as any use when ACER felt this lack of standardisation and an equal shot for everyone as acceptable.Its an unfair advantage rather than cheating. But ACER facilitated this so they would be the last people to say it is wrong. Section 2 topics posted on REDDIT and repeating over days, ACER are aware of all of these things, its not candidates fault, why wouldn't someone take that opportunity if it meant getting a place in medical school. I think ACER are at fault here, nobody that sat the exam is!0 -
Has anyone here bought the Griffiths pdf (for 147 euro)? Any opinions? I’m looking to start preparing for my first sitting in September. Also anyone who wont be resitting the GAMSAT dm me I’ll happily buy your notes))0
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Has anyone here bought the Griffiths pdf (for 147 euro)? Any opinions? I’m looking to start preparing for my first sitting in September. Also anyone who wont be resitting the GAMSAT dm me I’ll happily buy your notes))
I bought it. Personally I found it to be useless. You're better off looking for the dummies books for chemistry, biology and physics. Watching online videos on Khan academy, YouTube and checking out gamsatprep's free online videos and practice tests. All these resources are free and much better than the Griffith's which was absolutely trash.
Also, can't state this enough, but practice and practice! The exam is not a knowledge test. It's based on Item Response Theory. Each group of questions test specific things eg Spatial reasoning, abstract reasoning, data analysis etc. You're expected to answer questions based on the information right in front of you but using some knowledge to reason out the answer. You can only master the method by practicing. Identify what is being examined then use that to get your answer.
The section 2 is the easiest to score high marks with. I practiced a few essays a week and did the official gamsat online exam which actually accurately reflected my eventual score. I was delighted. Practicing will allow you to write about any and everything when prompted. Section 1+3 will depend on practice, section 1 you'll just have to read a lot. Check out academic cartoons and read and analyse plenty of poetry.
The reason I emphasize practice is that it builds your confidence which will eventually reflect in your time management during the exam. Time is always the biggest limitation. If you can get your confidence up, you'll better manage your time and do very well in the exam. Good luck!0 -
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As someone applying to GEM with a Sept 2019 score, I find the reports of how the May exam was conducted and the subsequent scoring very concerning. I cannot understand that if the exam was supposedly standardised against previous sittings that the curve would shift as dramatically to the right as it did. Has anyone else considered getting in touch with the colleges? I absolutely believe that ACER was right to give the May exam sitters the opportunity to sit the test, however the curve shift and suspicious point fluctuations that are being discussed on reddit are really alarming for those only holding scores from previous sittings IMO. Looks like points may go up. Perhaps a good solution might be that those near the cut off could be interviewed for best selection?0
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As someone applying to GEM with a Sept 2019 score, I find the reports of how the May exam was conducted and the subsequent scoring very concerning. I cannot understand that if the exam was supposedly standardised against previous sittings that the curve would shift as dramatically to the right as it did. Has anyone else considered getting in touch with the colleges? I absolutely believe that ACER was right to give the May exam sitters the opportunity to sit the test, however the curve shift and suspicious point fluctuations that are being discussed on reddit are really alarming for those only holding scores from previous sittings IMO. Looks like points may go up. Perhaps a good solution might be that those near the cut off could be interviewed for best selection?
I think the results this year are possibly askew which puts all other candidates at a disadvantage. We should get in touch with the colleges to consider investigating this at the very least. If they find no problems, that is completely fine with me and it would put my mind at ease. However, if they find that the exam this year was not to the same standards, I would propose you suggest to the colleges to possibly splitting the online cohort from the pen-and-paper cohort. I can't say what ratio it should be split at, it's up to them to decide. This would ensure that the cohort from last year is not mixed with the cohort who took the exam this year. Interviews near the cut off wouldn't be a good solution given that you are possibly putting yourself against other candidates who wouldn't have got that score in the first place in the pen-and-paper exam.0 -
I think the results this year are possibly askew which puts all other candidates at a disadvantage. We should get in touch with the colleges to consider investigating this at the very least. If they find no problems, that is completely fine with me and it would put my mind at ease. However, if they find that the exam this year was not to the same standards, I would propose you suggest to the colleges to possibly splitting the online cohort from the pen-and-paper cohort. I can't say what ratio it should be split at, it's up to them to decide. This would ensure that the cohort from last year is not mixed with the cohort who took the exam this year. Interviews near the cut off wouldn't be a good solution given that you are possibly putting yourself against other candidates who wouldn't have got that score in the first place in the pen-and-paper exam.
I agree that it should be investigated by the colleges at the very least. I also agree that splitting the online exam cohort from the pen-paper cohort would be a fair solution and probably something that the colleges could consider.
I have no idea if international student places will be filled this year, but if not, perhaps it might be another idea to allow these places be opened up to EU students to reduce the impact of the May exam/ scoring debacle. I imagine that this would probably be unworkable due to funding for EU places, but who knows how things will pan out this year.0 -
In many colleges international applications are considered the year before commencement. Many of these spots have already been filled long in advance. I imagine there are international students already in Ireland due to start GEM this year. However, there may be a few cancellations or students who changed their mind.0
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Cl101 and Quart12 must be the same person posting under two brand new accounts. Oddly similar the arguments and writing style of medgal22?0
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I'm sure mods can verify we are not the same person with an IP check. I assume you are the May candidate and don't like what's being said?0
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Huggarbear1001 wrote: »Cl101 and Quart12 must be the same person posting under two brand new accounts. Oddly similar the arguments and writing style of medgal22?
Haha that’s incorrect. I’ve been a regular visitor to this forum for over a year out of curiosity as to how people felt after exams, results etc., but never made an account. I thought it was important in this particular instance to make my thoughts and opinions known. Plus, quart12 is shooting down my ideas anyway and coming up with better solutions, so how would it make sense that the accounts be created by the same person?0 -
Nope not bothered by your comments at all. Just figured that nobody else was backing up Medgal22 until two brand new accounts joined in and happened to be posting so close in time. Seemed a bit odd to me.
No not a May candidate. Sat in September 2019 and got a 65.0 -
Huggarbear1001 wrote: »Nope not bothered by your comments at all. Just figured that nobody else was backing up Medgal22 until two brand new accounts joined in and happened to be posting so close in time. Seemed a bit odd to me.
No not a May candidate. Sat in September 2019 and got a 65.
Congrats on the great score.
Actually, you’re right. I noticed that medgal22 was highlighting some valid points about discrepancies of scoring and fairness. Seeing medgal22 post about some of the opinions that I share but was staying silent on didn’t seem right, so I decided to set up my account! 🙂0 -
Thank you. I worked hard to get it.
Maybe if it was just one person but two brand new accounts trying to create a discussion on the same evening when the same sentiment didn’t gain any traction on this thread before?
You are fully entitled to your opinion. Just thought I’d speak up when it looked odd to me.0 -
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Huggarbear1001 wrote: »Thank you. I worked hard to get it.
Maybe if it was just one person but two brand new accounts trying to create a discussion on the same evening when the same sentiment didn’t gain any traction on this thread before?
You are fully entitled to your opinion. Just thought I’d speak up when it looked odd to me.
I am actually lolling. I couldn't care less if people didn't back me up, I know my points are valid and all the institutions that offer the graduate medicine course are free to accept all feedback on the sudden increase in scores.0 -
Huggarbear1001, that's an ad hominem and it doesn't change the validity of our arguments. You also created an account today. Did you decide to do that and speak up because the argument wasn't in your self-interest or you just spotted that two accounts were created at similar times and assumed it must be the same person?0
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What if every account here bar me is the same person?0
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Most of the point fluctuations being posted about on Reddit are points drops though? (Makes sense that anyone who was disappointed is going to want to know why they went down). This may be as simple as an essay topic being misinterpreted. (One of the essay prompts I got was a twist on a well known saying and I can imagine many could have easily not seen that one of the words had been changed in the phrase).
I can understand people from Sept sitting feeling peed off about the curve move. What is the answer? I'm not sure. I think interviews/CV considerations would be a welcome addition to the process but I doubt the college's want to deal with huge last minute changes to that would lead to other candidates complaining, and present a social distancing and logistical nightmare for them at short notice.
In other countries where interview, GPA, work experience and portfolios are used alongside the GAMSAT it doesn't have as much importance but we don't even know for sure the curve comparison posted on paging Dr are accurate, nor do we know the number of candidates or the national curve for Ireland so hopefully points don't deviate much from where they were the last few years.0 -
Petty snide comments thrown back and forth on boards isn't going to make much of a difference to the outcome of this. On Reddit, Australians seem more concerned at the lack of the standardisation with this exam rather than tearing each other down. At the end of the day, medical schools will have to be aware of this and its their decision how they respond and that really is all that matters. They may choose to ignore it and just raise scores which is fine, Ill resit the exam and apply next year. It doesn't mean Im not going to voice my opinion or raise the points that need to be raised. We are all entitled to our opinion on this.0
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Huggarbear1001 wrote: »Thank you. I worked hard to get it.
Maybe if it was just one person but two brand new accounts trying to create a discussion on the same evening when the same sentiment didn’t gain any traction on this thread before?
You are fully entitled to your opinion. Just thought I’d speak up when it looked odd to me.
Yeah, I see where you are coming from. I suppose some people could be that sneaky!
I can see why the argument hasn’t gained much traction yet. No one wants to seem as though they are whining about others getting higher scores than them and questioning the protocols that ACER have in place. As we all know, the gamsat is normally held under the strictest of exam conditions, so it likely came as a shock to most when it was announced it would be conducted online. Honestly, when it was first announced that the exam would be reduced by half, sections held on different days, scrap paper allowed etc., I actually wasn’t concerned at all, because I was certain that ACER knew what they were doing. In fact, I thought that scores could be lower than might have been expected, in an effort by ACER to protect their image and show that even online, results would be directly comparable to pen-paper sittings.
Instead, there has been huge discussion about the curve shift, 100 point scores in section 3, unusually high scores on certain test days and tests being reopened days later. Others have also reported steep, unexpected and unexplained drops in section scores compared to their previous sittings.
Given these factors, I think it’s clear that those holding older scores from 2018/2019 may be put at a disadvantage as a result. There simply seems to be a lack of standardisation both between test days in this sitting, and with previous sittings.0 -
Call me a cynic, but I highly suspect that the medical schools will not give a toss about this. The GAMSAT is a handy tool for them to use to find appropriate candidates to fill the slots so they can get tuition money, which is really all they care about. Hearing sob stories about someone who worked really hard and only got a 58 when they were expecting a 59 will not move them to act. They'll fill the available places and the sky won't fall in. Deal with it and move on.0
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Call me a cynic, but I highly suspect that the medical schools will not give a toss about this. The GAMSAT is a handy tool for them to use to find appropriate candidates to fill the slots so they can get tuition money, which is really all they care about. Hearing sob stories about someone who worked really hard and only got a 58 when they were expecting a 59 will not move them to act. They'll fill the available places and the sky won't fall in. Deal with it and move on.
Could be true, but it doesn't change how wrong it is and theres lots of examples in society where things aren't challenged with awful repercussions. Would still be happier in myself to stand up for what is right than just go with the flow of inequality that underscores all this. It seems like Australians are more concerned about the equality of this, hopefully maybe it may change things for them at the very least.0 -
Call me a cynic, but I highly suspect that the medical schools will not give a toss about this. The GAMSAT is a handy tool for them to use to find appropriate candidates to fill the slots so they can get tuition money, which is really all they care about. Hearing sob stories about someone who worked really hard and only got a 58 when they were expecting a 59 will not move them to act. They'll fill the available places and the sky won't fall in. Deal with it and move on.
If more candidates report it, they are more likely to give a toss. It's not just about "someone", it's about a whole cohort who did an exam that MAY not be standardised. It reflects a bad image on the colleges if they decide to do nothing.0 -
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Yeah, I see where you are coming from. I suppose some people could be that sneaky!
I can see why the argument hasn’t gained much traction yet. No one wants to seem as though they are whining about others getting higher scores than them and questioning the protocols that ACER have in place. As we all know, the gamsat is normally held under the strictest of exam conditions, so it likely came as a shock to most when it was announced it would be conducted online. Honestly, when it was first announced that the exam would be reduced by half, sections held on different days, scrap paper allowed etc., I actually wasn’t concerned at all, because I was certain that ACER knew what they were doing. In fact, I thought that scores could be lower than might have been expected, in an effort by ACER to protect their image and show that even online, results would be directly comparable to pen-paper sittings.
Instead, there has been huge discussion about the curve shift, 100 point scores in section 3, unusually high scores on certain test days and tests being reopened days later. Others have also reported steep, unexpected and unexplained drops in section scores compared to their previous sittings.
Given these factors, I think it’s clear that those holding older scores from 2018/2019 may be put at a disadvantage as a result. There simply seems to be a lack of standardisation both between test days in this sitting, and with previous sittings.
I totally think many of these arguments are valid but I think there are a tiny number of people affected. I would imagine most people who scored well in Sept 2018 and March 2019 took their place in first year last Sept. There may have been a few who were holding on but I doubt many. So essentially it is the small number of unfortunate candidates who scored in the high fifties low sixties from Sept 2019 who chose not to resit and gambled points would not go up this time. It's really crappy I would be so annoyed if I was in that position. I'm also annoyed to be in this cohort, it has been quite a rollercoaster. It has been draining to say the least. 60,000+ leaving cert students are in a similar boat. I know phds who had vivas cancelled a day before. It's horrible. I hope there can be a fair outcome for people.0
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