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Coronovirus - Gamsat MARCH 2020
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thats just silly tbh. If scores spiked in the exam hall, of course none of this chat would be happening.
https://gradready.com.au/gamsat-scores
Link explains here. Exam difficulty is built into the IRT scaling. They have adjusted the scores for this. There was a thread from boards I was reading earlier from years ago where people were worried about the same thing.
The percentile curves move but it doesn't mean the points will go up or down hugely. The scores have spiked and lowered in the exam hall and people have, it seems, worried about it and it wasn't warranted.0 -
taxignorant wrote: »https://gradready.com.au/gamsat-scores
Link explains here. Exam difficulty is built into the IRT scaling. They have adjusted the scores for this. There was a thread from boards I was reading earlier from years ago where people were worried about the same thing.
The percentile curves move but it doesn't mean the points will go up or down hugely. The scores have spiked and lowered in the exam hall and people have, it seems, worried about it and it wasn't warranted.
Exactly. Like the cut off has been much higher in years where the percentile curves favoured lower scores.
2010: RCSI 63(round 1)-64 (round zero), UCD 61*, UCC 60*, UL 57*
2009: RCSI 61, UCD 60*, UCC 59*, UL 57* (for reference 57 = 60th percentile score and 64 = 90th)
In all those years the percentile curves were much lower. In all it depends on the number of applications received and number of people scoring higher. There aren't that many places in Ireland. If 600 people sit and only 200 score above 60, it'll still leave less than 50 places for the remaining 400 people. So, all in all the percentile means nothing.
Chin up.0 -
For those hoping for RCSI this year, here is the academic calendar for 2020-2021 (GEM). Might help with some scheduling and planning.
Semester 1
Programme starts: 31 August 2020
Mid-term break: 26 October-1 November 2020
Reading week: 26-10 December 2020
Exams: 11-21 December 2020
Christmas Vacation: 22 December-5 January 2021
Semester 2
Programme starts: 6 January 2021
Reading week: 15-21 February 2021
Spring Break: 31 March- 11 April 2021
Reading week: 26-9 May 2021
Exams: 10-30 May 2021
Clinical Placement: May 31-27 June 2021
Supplemental exams (repeats): 19 July-8 August 20210 -
Thanks coppertone! If anyone has the equivalent for UCD that would be fantastic.
I'm finding it hard to translate UCD timetables, is start time generally 8am or 9am for 1st year? From what I gather it's 20-30 contact hours plus significant studying. It may well be a more blended approach this year but if any second years are on this board would really appreciate a run down.0 -
ah yeah hopefully scores might even go down, nobody knows!0
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I can see both sides in this dilemma. Its funny how on Reddit though Australians seem genuinely concerned about how this exam was undertaken by ACER even regards difficulty levels on different days/ mirror not used to check around the room/procturs disconnecting/ people getting 100% on certain days and really badly on other days, whereas on here everyones like shut up, get on with it, stop being bitter....Im happy with my score and thankfully I had no technical issues but I do empathise with people that have been hard done by this.0
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Do you have a link to the 2010 results? I didn't know points ever went that high for RCSI0
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markocokram wrote: »Do you have a link to the 2010 results? I didn't know points ever went that high for RCSI
https://careersportal.ie/courses/coursedetail.php?course_id=17077 (go to entry requirements)
You can find the other colleges on careers portal too0 -
markocokram wrote: »Do you have a link to the 2010 results? I didn't know points ever went that high for RCSI
If you Google "CAO round zero 2010 gamsat cutoff" you'll find the pdf. It's available online from cao every year since 20080 -
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eek. Its mad whats happening.... this time last month nobody would have been asking would 63 be enough for RCSI...0
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Not sure if it includes medicine but for anyone interested UL seems to be having very limited amount if time on campus for the first semester, won't let me post the link but a quick google and it should come up!
This 100% does not include GEMS just FYI. They have not confirmed details yet but we have been told that there GEMS has been given different permissions due to the requirements of the vocational training.0 -
Slightly off topic but I've heard UL has a much higher drop out rate than any other GEMS programme? Is this true?heard that 10-15 leave every first semester....a bit worrying0
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Slightly off topic but I've heard UL has a much higher drop out rate than any other GEMS programme? Is this true?heard that 10-15 leave every first semester....a bit worrying
No 100% not that high from what I know. In my year, there were 4 in first semester. Two of which were from Dublin - one got offered a place in Dublin during orientation week and the other decided to try again for Dublin the next year. Of the other two, I only personally knew one who just decided medicine wasn't for them. I heard that the other person was very similar.
Also don't forget that the number of students in UL GEMS is quite a bit higher than the other GEMS courses. There are 150 spots in UL so a slightly higher number dropping out would be expected - especially considering the GAMSAT has historically been the lowest so people who wanted Dublin would shift around in the first few weeks if they got offered places.
But I can give you absolute full assurance that there are not troves of people deciding that UL is awful in the first semester and dropping out. Quite the opposite - there is a really good atmosphere and people overall are very happy.0 -
No 100% not that high from what I know. In my year, there were 4 in first semester. Two of which were from Dublin - one got offered a place in Dublin during orientation week and the other decided to try again for Dublin the next year. Of the other two, I only personally knew one who just decided medicine wasn't for them. I heard that the other person was very similar.
Also don't forget that the number of students in UL GEMS is quite a bit higher than the other GEMS courses. There are 150 spots in UL so a slightly higher number dropping out would be expected - especially considering the GAMSAT has historically been the lowest so people who wanted Dublin would shift around in the first few weeks if they got offered places.
But I can give you absolute full assurance that there are not troves of people deciding that UL is awful in the first semester and dropping out. Quite the opposite - there is a really good atmosphere and people overall are very happy.
Yeah Ive heard very mixed things tbh... guess it suits some people and not others! I think id find the way of learning a bit lonely tbh, it seems a bit isolating just going off and doing it all yourself with few hours contact time in college.... but I guess everyone is different!0 -
Yeah Ive heard very mixed things tbh... guess it suits some people and not others! I think id find the way of learning a bit lonely tbh, it seems a bit isolating just going off and doing it all yourself with few hours contact time in college.... but I guess everyone is different!
To be honest, a lot of people study in groups. I don't find it one bit isolating and I do a lot of my study alone just because it suits me a little better. But that being said, I communicate with my groups non stop and we meet up to go through difficult material or review together before PBL.
I totally get the concern but what you expect from self directed study in my experience doesn't equal isolation at all. Maybe others feel that way but in my experience I would say not in the slightest.
I've said this to anyone who asks me. Most people enjoy PBL. But the type of people who don't are the ones who prefer to be given a very specific list of things to learn and exactly how to learn them. This isn't a fault - one of the people I mentioned who dropped out was an extremely smart and accomplished person. They just liked a very, very structured system whereas somebody like me prefers to be told you need to learn about x, y and z and then I go off and use the resources and methods that work best for me personally. That's the greatest part about the PBL system is that you don't have to do things the way that works for others. Anatomy is a great example - I use certain resources that make total sense to me where a friend uses ones I hate. But we both get the same end result we just get to do it in a way that suits us both. If this doesn't sound good to you or how you learn, then the PBL system isn't for you I would say. But otherwise honestly give it a chance if it interests you at all - it really does work and I wouldn't change my mind if I started over.
As you said yourself every is different. If anyone has questions feel free to PM me I'm happy to answer questions based on my experience.0 -
Is there a reason that UL gets such a bad rap? So many people seem to think its an inferior school compared to the others but I would have thought only focusing on graduate medical students would be a plus. I would be happy to get a place anywhere tbh but was just wondering if anyone could expand on where the distrust of UL comes from?
Not sure I would go so far as to say UL gets a bad rap or that many people think it is an inferior school. There was one guy on here who got banned from Boards.ie and he seemed to be the only one who ever had anything bad to say about UL and he wasn't even a medical student or a doctor.
UL's teaching style is different obviously that creates a divide between UL and the other GEMS schools. UL is also a new program with no undergrad medicine structure to branch off.
I personally think there is a little bit of snobbery from some people around GAMSAT scores being the lowest of the schools thinking that it is just the lesser end of the applicants that go there. The intake is higher than any other program so the GAMSAT is a little lower because of that - but don't kid yourself that people with high GAMSAT scores don't actively pick UL. I have no doubt the average GAMSAT score is comparable to other schools because I know a lot of people on 60+ that are in UL.
Not sure who your sources are that dislike UL but I'm a UL GEMS student. Happy to answer any of your questions with my genuine opinion and advice. I also had my choice of all GEMS schools with a good GAMSAT so I wasn't "stuck" with UL as my only option. I personally think it is a very strong school whose teaching style will personally set me up for success in the long term as a doctor. I also think any of the other schools would also be a great choice but PBL has been a great choice for me personally.
I know one person who majorly struggled in UL and failed exams a few times. They didn't like the program or medicine as a whole. UL wasn't a great choice for them as they lacked motivation but medicine was also not at all what they expected and not a great choice for them. On top of that, they struggled with the level of study required. This person had some personal crap going on as well and it just all got on top of them. They fully recognised their own contribution to the dislike of UL and being a doctor. So take what you will from that.0 -
Not sure I would go so far as to say UL gets a bad rap or that many people think it is an inferior school. There was one guy on here who got banned from Boards.ie and he seemed to be the only one who ever had anything bad to say about UL and he wasn't even a medical student or a doctor.
UL's teaching style is different obviously that creates a divide between UL and the other GEMS schools. UL is also a new program with no undergrad medicine structure to branch off.
I personally think there is a little bit of snobbery from some people around GAMSAT scores being the lowest of the schools thinking that it is just the lesser end of the applicants that go there. The intake is higher than any other program so the GAMSAT is a little lower because of that - but don't kid yourself that people with high GAMSAT scores don't actively pick UL. I have no doubt the average GAMSAT score is comparable to other schools because I know a lot of people on 60+ that are in UL.
Not sure who your sources are that dislike UL but I'm a UL GEMS student. Happy to answer any of your questions with my genuine opinion and advice. I also had my choice of all GEMS schools with a good GAMSAT so I wasn't "stuck" with UL as my only option. I personally think it is a very strong school whose teaching style will personally set me up for success in the long term as a doctor. I also think any of the other schools would also be a great choice but PBL has been a great choice for me personally.
I know one person who majorly struggled in UL and failed exams a few times. They didn't like the program or medicine as a whole. UL wasn't a great choice for them as they lacked motivation but medicine was also not at all what they expected and not a great choice for them. On top of that, they struggled with the level of study required. This person had some personal crap going on as well and it just all got on top of them. They fully recognised their own contribution to the dislike of UL and being a doctor. So take what you will from that.
I don't know anyone personally who went to UL and that was why I asked so I could get proper first hand testimonials as it was the only grad medicine course that I saw quite a lot of people talk negatively about (usually not UL students so I don't know why I was worried)
Thanks for clearing it up!0 -
I personally love UL and it was my first choice on a 60+ score. All of the medical schools have their advantages and disadvantages. I think the self directed learning is an excellent preparation for real life after we graduate as we will all be fending for ourselves then anyway.
If you are someone who prefers actively researching concepts, finding solutions and finding the answers to questions that you have no idea about... then UL might be for you. I really believe this type of system helps you retain information as it’s more difficult forget things learned this way. If you would rather be given the information via lecture notes etc. so you can then learn it, then UL might not be for you.
At times it can be difficult to know how far you need to go for certain topics but there still is guidance. We still have some lectures and a lot of support from upper years. It doesn’t suit everyone but I equally agree that didactic teaching doesn’t suit everyone either.
I think the bad rep for UL definitely comes from students in other schools, perhaps due to the impression that many of the UL students really wanted Dublin. This is definitely the case for some, but absolutely not all of them. Even if this was the case, it shouldn’t matter. I know many on high scores and I agree that the lower point requirement is partly influenced by the larger class size.
At the end of the day we will all be working together in a few years and it won’t even matter then.0 -
No 100% not that high from what I know. In my year, there were 4 in first semester. Two of which were from Dublin - one got offered a place in Dublin during orientation week and the other decided to try again for Dublin the next year. Of the other two, I only personally knew one who just decided medicine wasn't for them. I heard that the other person was very similar.
Also don't forget that the number of students in UL GEMS is quite a bit higher than the other GEMS courses. There are 150 spots in UL so a slightly higher number dropping out would be expected - especially considering the GAMSAT has historically been the lowest so people who wanted Dublin would shift around in the first few weeks if they got offered places.
But I can give you absolute full assurance that there are not troves of people deciding that UL is awful in the first semester and dropping out. Quite the opposite - there is a really good atmosphere and people overall are very happy.
Would anyone have any idea of the kind of scores are people on who get offers for Dublin two weeks into orientation or that late into the year?0 -
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hopefulsucess wrote: »Would anyone have any idea of the kind of scores are people on who get offers for Dublin two weeks into orientation or that late into the year?
The person I know that got offered Dublin was during week 1 of UL orientation (so 1st week of Sept) and was on a 59.0 -
Talking to other people applying during open days, the main reason they cited for not wanting to go to UL was the fact that they don't use cadavers for anatomy labs. Also that the hospitals you go to on placements are small regional ones. I have no opinion either way as Limerick is not an option for me but I was surprised at the overwhelming negative preconceptions people had!0
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UL GEM is a young programme, it is less than 15 years old I believe. New medical schools tend to get a bad rep until they are established (ie: connections are made after the students graduate). This has been shown time and again in the US where new medical schools are built every year. The most prestigious schools are usually 100s of years old.
Thus the bad rep is a function of time and perhaps due to a perception of Limerick city as a place. The joke is that UL is in a very nice part of Limerick.0 -
Flimsy_Boat wrote: »UL GEM is a young programme, it is less than 15 years old I believe. New medical schools tend to get a bad rep until they are established (ie: connections are made after the students graduate). This has been shown time and again in the US where new medical schools are built every year. The most prestigious schools are usually 100s of years old.
Thus the bad rep is a function of time and perhaps due to a perception of Limerick city as a place. The joke is that UL is in a very nice part of Limerick.
Just an aside, but I only found out the other day that GEM in Ireland only started in 2006 (according to RCSI)
"RCSI was the first medical school in the Republic of Ireland to introduce a Graduate Entry Medicine (GEM) programme in 2006, enabling students from a range of undergraduate backgrounds to study medicine."
https://www.rcsi.com/dublin/undergraduate/gem/why-rcsi-dublin#:~:text=RCSI%20was%20the%20first%20medical,undergraduate%20backgrounds%20to%20study%20medicine.0 -
No 100% not that high from what I know. In my year, there were 4 in first semester. Two of which were from Dublin - one got offered a place in Dublin during orientation week and the other decided to try again for Dublin the next year. Of the other two, I only personally knew one who just decided medicine wasn't for them. I heard that the other person was very similar.
Also don't forget that the number of students in UL GEMS is quite a bit higher than the other GEMS courses. There are 150 spots in UL so a slightly higher number dropping out would be expected - especially considering the GAMSAT has historically been the lowest so people who wanted Dublin would shift around in the first few weeks if they got offered places.
But I can give you absolute full assurance that there are not troves of people deciding that UL is awful in the first semester and dropping out. Quite the opposite - there is a really good atmosphere and people overall are very happy.0 -
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To be honest, a lot of people study in groups. I don't find it one bit isolating and I do a lot of my study alone just because it suits me a little better. But that being said, I communicate with my groups non stop and we meet up to go through difficult material or review together before PBL.
I totally get the concern but what you expect from self directed study in my experience doesn't equal isolation at all. Maybe others feel that way but in my experience I would say not in the slightest.
I've said this to anyone who asks me. Most people enjoy PBL. But the type of people who don't are the ones who prefer to be given a very specific list of things to learn and exactly how to learn them. This isn't a fault - one of the people I mentioned who dropped out was an extremely smart and accomplished person. They just liked a very, very structured system whereas somebody like me prefers to be told you need to learn about x, y and z and then I go off and use the resources and methods that work best for me personally. That's the greatest part about the PBL system is that you don't have to do things the way that works for others. Anatomy is a great example - I use certain resources that make total sense to me where a friend uses ones I hate. But we both get the same end result we just get to do it in a way that suits us both. If this doesn't sound good to you or how you learn, then the PBL system isn't for you I would say. But otherwise honestly give it a chance if it interests you at all - it really does work and I wouldn't change my mind if I started over.
As you said yourself every is different. If anyone has questions feel free to PM me I'm happy to answer questions based on my experience.
Just I guess the main thing I would question is what exactly you're paying for with UL? A list of learning outcomes and a GP to listen to you talk about it? I recognise everyone has a different way of learning but the fees are astronomical, I just wonder where all this money is being spent on in UL. Its strange.0 -
Just I guess the main thing I would question is what exactly you're paying for with UL? A list of learning outcomes and a GP to listen to you talk about it? I recognise everyone has a different way of learning but the fees are astronomical, I just wonder where all this money is being spent on in UL. Its strange.
Don't go to UL myself (and don't have it down on the CAO), but the fees are astronomical everywhere (actually they are €1500 more expensive in RCSI). At the end of the day you're paying for the medical degree, and they're not cheap anywhere.
If you don't like the learning style or the fees in UL, just don't put it down on the CAO - problem solved.0 -
Slightly off topic but I've heard UL has a much higher drop out rate than any other GEMS programme? Is this true?heard that 10-15 leave every first semester....a bit worrying
Hi Redser, there's a good chance I'm one of the four roundpony is referring to that left UL in 2018. Roundpony is right 10-15 don't leave in the first semester although I'm sure it varies from year to year. There's no doubt the first 6-8 weeks are intense and the biggest adjustment is adapting to the PBL style of teaching and the self learning. The PBL sessions can feel quite pressured, as sometimes you'll have a huge amount of learning between the Tuesday and the Friday. But this also depends on your PBL tutor.. Some are more easy going than others! It can also feel competitive, your PBL group will be a mixture of backgrounds, science +2 non science backgrounds. The first semester is particularly difficult for the non science graduates but by the time the students reach the end of 1st year things have levelled out.
For me the decision to leave was influenced by a number of factors. In 2017 I was on 58 and ucd was my 1st pref. It came down to 58 in the 2nd/3rd rounds but didn't get an offer. I decided to keep working, sit again and reapply in 2018..unfortunately got 55 the next year so reapplied with the 58 again.. Ucd came down to 58 again in the later rounds but didn't get a place. I remember the guy getting the call while he was in orientation at UL.. Felt like such a lotto the whole thing. I also got rejected the grad med loan from BOI which naturally made things more stressful. I then tried to commute from County Galway which isn't the smartest when you're doing PBL. Ultimately I was going to struggle finding the fees and I decided to leave and return to work, which I did and see where things were in an another year or two. The whole entry system into graduate medicine in Ireland needs to re-examined if you ask me. Even in Scotland the scotgem programme allows students to have most of their fees covered of they commit to the NHS Scotland for 5yrs post graduation. Can we not introduce something like that.. It beggers belief that so much time and money goes into educating graduate medical students in Ireland only for them not to have the incentive to want to stay here after their intern year but head abroad to re-coup their debt or in some cases of course for the lifestyle. I'd love to see a Scotgem incentive introduced here, it would be a twofold benefit to the student and to our health system, but hey it's business too for the unis so the push needs to come from the dept of Ed and the HSE. Sorry Redser went off on a tangent there!!0 -
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Hi Redser, there's a good chance I'm one of the four roundpony is referring to that left UL in 2018. Roundpony is right 10-15 don't leave in the first semester although I'm sure it varies from year to year. There's no doubt the first 6-8 weeks are intense and the biggest adjustment is adapting to the PBL style of teaching and the self learning. The PBL sessions can feel quite pressured, as sometimes you'll have a huge amount of learning between the Tuesday and the Friday. But this also depends on your PBL tutor.. Some are more easy going than others! It can also feel competitive, your PBL group will be a mixture of backgrounds, science +2 non science backgrounds. The first semester is particularly difficult for the non science graduates but by the time the students reach the end of 1st year things have levelled out.
For me the decision to leave was influenced by a number of factors. In 2017 I was on 58 and ucd was my 1st pref. It came down to 58 in the 2nd/3rd rounds but didn't get an offer. I decided to keep working, sit again and reapply in 2018..unfortunately got 55 the next year so reapplied with the 58 again.. Ucd came down to 58 again in the later rounds but didn't get a place. I remember the guy getting the call while he was in orientation at UL.. Felt like such a lotto the whole thing. I also got rejected the grad med loan from BOI which naturally made things more stressful. I then tried to commute from County Galway which isn't the smartest when you're doing PBL. Ultimately I was going to struggle finding the fees and I decided to leave and return to work, which I did and see where things were in an another year or two. The whole entry system into graduate medicine in Ireland needs to re-examined if you ask me. Even in Scotland the scotgem programme allows students to have most of their fees covered of they commit to the NHS Scotland for 5yrs post graduation. Can we not introduce something like that.. It beggers belief that so much time and money goes into educating graduate medical students in Ireland only for them not to have the incentive to want to stay here after their intern year but head abroad to re-coup their debt or in some cases of course for the lifestyle. I'd love to see a Scotgem incentive introduced here, it would be a twofold benefit to the student and to our health system, but hey it's business too for the unis so the push needs to come from the dept of Ed and the HSE. Sorry Redser went off on a tangent there!!
I know, the system is all very lucky dip, when it comes to the * score, there should be some other system like interviews or something to make it less mentally tough for people, like missing out on a lotto is not ideal... Did you apply for UCC with your 58? The programme there seems very good also!0
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