Boss forcing us to cancel holiday due to Coronavirus

edit_me

Buy weed locally? Shouldn't be a problem

gibgodsman

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Ignore others. You want to travel, then you can travel.

No, the boss can't do this. He has no right to enforce self isolation or threaten staff.

However, and with regards to the people having a pop at you, it's probable not a sensible thing to do from a health point of view and the risk of things getting worse regarding travel.

There's also the moral issue but that's on you guys

Your not the smartest poster are you? The boss can do a temporary layoff to protect his other workers, absolutely, and no legal system will debate his choice at a time like this.

Ignore others and travel? God I cannot wait until you and everyone you know get this virus, will see you change that selfish tune

CIARAN_BOYLE

There was government guidance not to travel to italy when there was less cases than there is in the netherlands today.

I'd say government guidance will change by the time you are going on your holiday.

I wouldn't travel. I would consider it common decency to my friends and neighbours and workmates and to society in general.

I would hope you aren't allowed to travel by the time it comes around.

If you do travel I would hope that people (including your employer) takes reasonable precautions to protect themselves.

BattleCorp

wpd wrote: »

go on your holiday and enjoy yourself
when you come back turn up for work and if sent home take him to wrc

there is no travel ban on Amsterdam and there is no advice to self isolate for 2 weeks

your boss has no right to tell you how to live your life outside of working hours and to put extra restrictions on
you that law does not

Have you seen the state of Italy at the moment? Your post is absolutely idiotic, seriously.

The Netherlands have 804 cases of the virus and those numbers are rising rapidly. Yesterday they had 111 new cases and today they have 190 new cases.

All it takes is one idiot to do something reckless and infect a whole business/town/country.

Dav010

Jeffrey Flat Seed wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

PS: they’re not.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-restrictions-imposed-on-people-returning-from-spain-and-italy-1.4202056?mode=amp

A2LUE42

Clown working with my Brother in law didn't bother to tell anyone he was in Italy for two weeks and just went back to work without saying anything. He is now showing symptoms and is being tested and they are all concerned about the vunerable people in their lives that they are in daily contact with, such as elderly parents. Some people are just idiots.

skooterblue2

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

I'd give anything if you went and by the time you return ye are met with army personal to ship ye off to a metal container to quarantine for 2 weeks with only one bucket between ye

The selfishness is unbelievable

What do you think it is going to be like a work when they return?
"You're the Dockhead who went against DFA advice and potentially brough brack another strain of COVID-19 to our work place. What a Cunp!!"
Now this wont be said to your face, it will be thought and muttered in dark corners.

Depending on the size of your employer, later on when you want favours and promotions, they may not go in your favour, they may not sponsor courses or projects of yours. In fact you should expect a direct snub when you return. I have seen this with one salty individual in a different circumstance (and times) who got relegated to broom cupboard office and everytime he wanted a promotion he was scoring in high 80's and being denied the course at interview level.

You are cribbing OP about €500? What about your health and career? This too will pass. Financially in 5 years no-one will remember this but people remember people who put them and their families in danger.

Sure go and have a great time but expect consequences and repercussion on your return.

BattleCorp

Many of the businesses that close down temporarily because of this won't open up again.

And that's the least of my worries to be honest. I'd be more worried about an elderly parent/aunt/uncle/friend etc. dying from this virus.............possibly because some cnut was more worried about their holiday than the safety of everyone else.

skooterblue2

Kind of reminds me of that character played by Brendan Grace in Father Ted.

emeldc

wpd wrote: »

where are you getting that advice from?
do you really think the 50,000 coming back from cheltenham are going to self isolate for 2 weeks? Is Varadkar going to self isolate for 2 weeks when he comes back from America?

Every fuggin' last one of them should be tested for the virus before they're let off the plane, bunch of selfish pr1cks.
Her boss is bang on.

gibgodsman

gibgodsman wrote: »

Your not the smartest poster are you? The boss can do a temporary layoff to protect his other workers, absolutely, and no legal system will debate his choice at a time like this.

Ignore others and travel? God I cannot wait until you and everyone you know get this virus, will see you change that selfish tune

Care to show me the legal right to lay someone off because they took a holiday? Love to see it.

No legal system will debate it? Strange systems you are used to. the Irish legal system allows all matters to be debated and considered.

And when I said travel, I said he could of he chose because that's his legal right. Did you see the part where I suggested he should maybe listen to people advise and make the correct moral decision?

So yes, I am pretty bright. I know the legal position here for starters and I know without a law being amended, the virus doesn't change a workers legal protection.

As for getting it, it's a virus, if I get it I get it. In fact I'm almost guaranteed considering the place I work and job I do. I'll isolate, I'll feel like **** and then I will get better just as all middle aged healthy people are.

I however, can't take holidays or stop going to work like yourself so I dunno really if I can be called selfish under the circumstances.

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

Many of the businesses that close down temporarily because of this won't open up again.

And that's the least of my worries to be honest. I'd be more worried about an elderly parent/aunt/uncle/friend etc. dying from this virus.............possibly because some cnut was more worried about their holiday than the safety of everyone else.

Perhaps, and I'm playing devil's advocate here, perhaps the vulnerable should self isolate in advance?

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Today this applies, but today has been a day like few others. As I said, this is an extra ordinary situation which may require huge changes in the coming weeks to prevent the spread of this infection. Only time will tell whether changes to legislation will be necessary.

Also, would the WRC go against an employer for following Government advice if that advice changes by the time the op travels?

The key issue here isn't the regusal to allow her back to work, it's the refusal to pay her.

If the boss forces someone to self isolate without showing symptoms, and it's a recommendation not a legal requirement at the moment, then it's the companies decision and payment should still be made.

If however it becomes a legal requirement as a result of an update to the 1947 act, the onus will be on the government to cover the staffs costs via sick benefit or unemployment benefit.

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

Have you seen the state of Italy at the moment? Your post is absolutely idiotic, seriously.

The Netherlands have 804 cases of the virus and those numbers are rising rapidly. Yesterday they had 111 new cases and today they have 190 new cases.

All it takes is one idiot to do something reckless and infect a whole business/town/country.

His post is 100% accurate at the time of posting.

Emotions are being allowed to trump law in this thread.

Dav010

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

His post is 100% accurate at the time of posting.

Emotions are being allowed to trump law in this thread.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/people-returning-from-spain-italy-must-self-isolate-harris-982435

It is not at all clear that an employer would be required to pay an employee advised to stay at home when they come back from holiday as a precaution. The advice comes from the Government and they have altered illness benefit payment procedures to cater for absences due to corona virus.

The fact is, as this is such an extraordinary event, usual rules are being adapted almost daily. It really would be folly to take your advice and approach. By the time the op goes on holiday the situation is likely to have changed again. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture rather than stating that what was the norm two weeks ago will be the same in two weeks time.

Shefwedfan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Ignore others. You want to travel, then you can travel.

No, the boss can't do this. He has no right to enforce self isolation or threaten staff.

However, and with regards to the people having a pop at you, it's probable not a sensible thing to do from a health point of view and the risk of things getting worse regarding travel.

There's also the moral issue but that's on you guys

It would be better just to ignore you

First off OP do you care that little for your life or someone else that you would risk it for 500 euro? Have you even bothered to check refund policy with hotel/flight?

Only an absolute idiot would fly, first off people in Netherlands don’t want to see you and people in Ireland don’t want you back. So your just putting stress on your self in both situation

Countries are shutting down flight all the time, loads of Irish who are stupid and selfish enough to travel now have no route home, as far as I’m concerned let them off. Idiots

PS yes the boss can just fire people. Loss of earning will be critical now, if I was the boss I would just fire your GF, if she is more interested in a silly holiday then pointless having around company

People need to grow up, seriously 500 euro??? People are cancelling holiday costing thousands

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

https://www.newstalk.com/news/people-returning-from-spain-italy-must-self-isolate-harris-982435

It is not at all clear that an employer would be required to pay an employee advised to stay at home when they come back from holiday as a precaution. The advice comes from the Government and they have altered illness benefit payment procedures to cater for absences due to corona virus.

The fact is, as this is such an extraordinary event, usual rules are being adapted almost daily. It really would be folly to take your advice and approach. By the time the op goes on holiday the situation is likely to have changed again. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture rather than stating that what was the norm two weeks ago will be the same in two weeks time.

Perhaps read the op? There's nothing 'advised' in the scenario. The boss is ordering the staff member not to come to work

You also can't predict the future. The law as it stands is as it stands. There is no ban on traveling to Holland, they're is no law that allows your boss to force isolation on you.

That may change, it may not but giving advice based on a so far, non existent rule and law is hardly sound.

KathleenGrant

Maybe the employer is not worrying about the legal implications of not paying someone for 2 weeks.
Maybe the employer is worried about the health and safety of other workers and the legal implications of potrntially exposing them to infection.

KathleenGrant

KathleenGrant wrote: »

Maybe the employer is not worrying about the legal implications of not paying someone for 2 weeks.
Maybe the employer is worried about the health and safety of other workers and the legal implications of potrntially exposing them to infection.

Possible, but again the op asked a specific question about the legality of the actions not the morality or reasoning.

Nor did the op ask for people's opinions on the travel itself but that's mostly what is being given.

lawred2

jface187 wrote: »

Hey guys.

My Girlfriend and I are supposed to go to Amsterdam at the end of the month.
Her boss just said to her if she goes to Amsterdam, when she comes back she has to self isolate for two weeks. She was told she would not be paid for these two weeks?

Is this legal? We either cancel our holiday and lose 500 euro or she doesn't get paid for two weeks? Were not in any position to take this kinda hit.
She works in a shop by the way.

Tough sh!t

Dav010

KathleenGrant wrote: »

Maybe the employer is not worrying about the legal implications of not paying someone for 2 weeks.
Maybe the employer is worried about the health and safety of other workers and the legal implications of potrntially exposing them to infection.

Quite right, and there is no guarantee that the WRC would side with the employee based solely on what is a legal position, but which which may not be enforced now given the advice Government is releasing about returning from travel abroad. Would the WRC rule against Government advice on the corona virus?

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Quite right, and there is no guarantee that the WRC would side with the employee based solely on what is a legal position, but which which may not be enforced now given the advice Government is releasing about returning from travel abroad. Would the WRC rule against Government advice on the corona virus?

The wrc is not a court. There are higher options and yes, they would side against government advice because they work within the law and are very much biased towards the employees in most cases.

KathleenGrant

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Possible, but again the op asked a specific question about the legality of the actions not the morality or reasoning.

Nor did the op ask for people's opinions on the travel itself but that's mostly what is being given.

Fair enough.
Thread name is a lie though.

KathleenGrant

KathleenGrant wrote: »

Fair enough.
Thread name is a lie though.

Well, kinda I suppose. He isn't forcing them but he's not giving a reasonable alternative

Shefwedfan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The wrc is not a court. There are higher options and yes, they would side against government advice because they work within the law and are very much biased towards the employees in most cases.

The boss can just fire her as I posted

Every company will have loss of earning. Good luck trying to find a new job because I wouldn’t be asking for a reference

Dav010

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The wrc is not a court. There are higher options and yes, they would side against government advice because they work within the law and are very much biased towards the employees in most cases.

The WRC would adjudicate against employers for following advice given by the Dept of Health, the HSE etc ? What makes you so sure of this? Would you be at all concerned that employers would refuse to follow that Government advice if there was good reason to believe they could be heavily penalised by the WRC for doing precisely what the Government advised?

KathleenGrant

Also the person in question works in a shop. General public at risk also. Person will be touching surfaces others will have to.

Darc19

Remember, the op posted three days ago.

His gf probably had the conversation with her employer last Tuesday or Wednesday when it was no where near as serious as it became.

So if you read it in the context of what was known earlier in the week, it's a valid question.


Obviously in light of Thursday's announcement and the fact that it is spreading like wildfire around Europe, the last place the op and his gf will want to be is Amsterdam.

Chances are a travel ban will be announced and flights refunded or changeable

KathleenGrant

Darc19 wrote: »

Remember, the op posted three days ago.

His gf probably had the conversation with her employer last Tuesday or Wednesday when it was no where near as serious as it became.

So if you read it in the context of what was known earlier in the week, it's a valid question.


Obviously in light of Thursday's announcement and the fact that it is spreading like wildfire around Europe, the last place the op and his gf will want to be is Amsterdam.

Chances are a travel ban will be announced and flights refunded or changeable

Voice of reason....dammit.
Will have to go somewhere else to be offended now
You are right of course. Context is everything.

Car99

Out of interest at what level of covid 19 in the destination country do people think it's still ok to travel. At the moment Ireland has 26 cases of covid19 per million of population while the uk has 17 cases per million of population . Statistically UK has less infection than Ireland so is travel to there socially acceptable?