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Proud of Ireland

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    #32
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    I just have. They are giving 6 billion for new hospitals and nurses. Hardly the policy of a party ideologically opposed to the NHS. I await evidence of you assertion.

    Just an announcement that means squat. I'll leave it there.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #33
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    What am I looking at here specifically?






    77% of respondents want the NHS to continue as is. The Tories, who are anti NHS, poll 43% of the vote as of the last election. Therefore there is overlap between those who vote tory and who want the NHS to continue as is. Thus the statement
    "people trot out the tired old lines about loving the NHS while constantly voting for the party who ideologically oppose its very existence beggars belief."
    is true.


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    #34
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Odhinn wrote: »
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-nhs-privatisation-general-election-hospitals-conservatives-manifesto-a9230606.html

    From your own link:
    Despite appearing as one of five authors of the 147-page publication in 2011, the foreign secretary insisted the section on opening up the health service to private providers “certainly wasn’t anything I wrote”.
    “We’ve been absolutely clear there is going to be no privatisation of the NHS under the Conservative’s watch or this prime minister’s watch,” he said. “In relation to drugs, there is going to be no dilution of our protection of consumers in this country.


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    #35
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Just an announcement that means squat. I'll leave it there.

    So no evidence that they ideologically oppose it. No surprise there.


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    #36
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    MakingMovies2 wrote: »
    That's just bull**** from fatty blonde spaffer Johnson.

    It may be, the claim of 40 hospitals or whatever is more than likely rubbish aswell. Still though, hardly the promises of a party that "ideologically opposes" the NHS, which was the claim made.


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    #37
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    From your own link:




    Yet


    The pamphlet said the “current monolith” of the NHS should be “broken up”, adding: “Hospitals should be given their independence, extending the Foundation Hospital model - initially controversial but now almost universally accepted.

    “New non-profit and private operators should be allowed into the service, and, indeed should compete on price.”


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    #38
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Odhinn wrote: »
    77% of respondents want the NHS to continue as is. The Tories, who are anti NHS, poll 43% of the vote as of the last election. Therefore there is overlap between those who vote tory and who want the NHS to continue as is. Thus the statement is true.

    No, I'm saying that the tory party are not ideologically opposed to the NHS, and as such the claim is bogus. I'm aware the NHS is widely supported, and rightly so.


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    #39
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Yet

    I responded to that. Here is the the article in more detail.
    The pamphlet said the “current monolith” of the NHS should be “broken up”, adding: “Hospitals should be given their independence, extending the Foundation Hospital model - initially controversial but now almost universally accepted.

    “New non-profit and private operators should be allowed into the service, and, indeed should compete on price.”

    It added: “Across the world, countries with more competition, such as Germany and Switzerland, tend to be more efficient. Two-thirds of German hospitals are run privately or not-for-profit.”

    Challenged over the comments in the pamphlet on Radio 4’s Today programme – and a section advocating a health service where two-thirds of hospitals are run privately or not-for-profit – Mr Raab replied: “No, it’s not true.”

    He went on: “You’ve picked probably a snippet from a pamphlet written a long time ago, but I can tell you categorically I’ve never advocated privatisation of the NHS.

    “Yes I co-authored, I think there were five us in total,” he added.

    Defending the book, Mr Raab said: “When you go into your average hospital, you see a Costa Coffee there, you see a florist there. Is anyone seriously suggesting that the nurses, the doctors, the civil servants in the Department for Health should be running those services. That’s wholesale different from clinical services.”

    Pressed again on the book specifically mentioning hospitals, he added: “Well it certainly wasn’t anything I wrote, and it’s certainly nothing I advocate.”

    The last line is particularly pertinent. This is all forgetting, ofcourse, that the pamphlet is nearly ten years old.


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    #40
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,484 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    No, I'm saying that the tory party are not ideologically opposed to the NHS, and as such the claim is bogus. I'm aware the NHS is widely supported, and rightly so.

    They would never get away with tampering with the universality of the NHS its widley supported by all classes.


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    #41
    MakingMovies2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭MakingMovies2


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    It may be, the claim of 40 hospitals or whatever is more than likely rubbish aswell. Still though, hardly the promises of a party that "ideologically opposes" the NHS, which was the claim made.

    The NHS is too humanitarian for the fat spaffer Johnson to understand. It doesn't make money so it has no use in his cold dead porcine eyes. I dread the day his next spawn emerges from the womb.


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    #42
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    mariaalice wrote: »
    They would never get away with tampering with the universality of the NHS its widley supported by all classes.

    Yes, including the Conservatives themselves. I don't disagree that the NHS is widely supported.


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    #43
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    MakingMovies2 wrote: »
    The NHS is too humanitarian for the fat spaffer Johnson to understand. It doesn't make money so it has no use in his cold dead porcine eyes. I dread the day his next spawn emerges from the womb.

    That's nice. I'll never understand those who have such utter hatred for relatively run of the mill politicians. It's bizarre. You already hate his yet to be born child.


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    #44
    MakingMovies2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭MakingMovies2


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    That's nice. I'll never understand those who have such utter hatred for relatively run of the mill politicians. It's bizarre. You already hate his yet to be born child.

    Fat spaffer Johnson isn't even human in my eyes between brex****, austerity and covid 19 think of the thousands of lives crushed by his fatty hands.


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    #45
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    MakingMovies2 wrote: »
    Fat spaffer Johnson isn't even human in my eyes between brex****, austerity and covid 19 think of the thousands of lives crushed by his fatty hands.

    Ah yes. Because dehumanising people is always a good idea, has never led to any problems...


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    #46
    MakingMovies2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭MakingMovies2


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Ah yes. Because dehumanising people is always a good idea, has never led to any problems...

    Again he's not a man. He's one of the pigs from animal farm. Stuffing his fat ugly blonde face at the trough. Growing fatter and fatter as the people wither and die. We all know what happens to pigs when the time comes though


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    #47
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Threads a hell of a distance from "Proud of Ireland" it has to be said.


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    #48
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Threads a hell of a distance from "Proud of Ireland" it has to be said.

    It is when a poster is dehumanising the PM of our closest neighbours, declaring him "not a man" but a pig. Not forgetting dreading the day his "spawn" enters the World. A sentiment you seem to agree with.

    Not exactly a lot to be proud of in that is there!


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    #49
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    It is when a poster is dehumanising the PM of our closest neighbours, declaring him "not a man" but a pig. Not forgetting dreading the day his "spawn" enters the World. A sentiment you seem to agree with.

    Not exactly a lot to be proud of in that is there!


    I make no predictions as to his "spawn". "pig" is rather too simplistic an insult to the father, though.


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    #50
    MakingMovies2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭MakingMovies2


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    It is when a poster is dehumanising the PM of our closest neighbours, declaring him "not a man" but a pig. Not forgetting dreading the day his "spawn" enters the World. A sentiment you seem to agree with.

    Not exactly a lot to be proud of in that is there!



    I'm proud to take a stand against that fat Nazi. If only more people had the balls to


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    #51
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Odhinn wrote: »
    I make no predictions as to his "spawn". "pig" is rather too simplistic an insult to the father, though.

    You liked the comment.


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    #52
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    You liked the comment.


    I did. "pig" may not be the most accurate of remarks, and in fact slander towards pigs generally, but its not an observation I'd disown.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ****ing hell. What an absolute car crash this has turned in to.


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    #54
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Odhinn wrote: »
    I did. "pig" may not be the most accurate of remarks, and in fact slander towards pigs generally, but its not an observation I'd disown.

    Wow.


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    #55
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Ole ole was being sung at Cheltenham- not so proud


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Someone here once said that they'd grown up in East Germany prior to reunification and they found the poverty levels in the north of England shocking. I have no problem believing that.

    I lived on the dole for a brief period in Ireland (Dublin) and the UK (Essex) for a brief period in the early 90s, when Ireland was still an economic basket case. Day and night difference. You could barely survive in the UK whereas you could actually have some semblance of a life in Ireland. Plus we got butter vouchers then too.


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    #57
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    MakingMovies2 wrote:
    I'm proud to take a stand against that fat Nazi. If only more people had the balls to

    What an absolute clown that post is (attacking the post, not the poster)


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The poor in the UK had a choice between a bunch of right wing toffs (the Tories) and a bunch of left wing toffs (Labour). Main difference being that Labour told them that the white English and the Jews were responsible for all the problems in UK society, and the young women of the North of England were irrelevant. Led by that unbelievably unlikeable, racist and incompetent Jeremy Corbyn.

    And by the way Tony Blair and New Labour played no small role in privatising large parts of the NHS.

    This is not some pro Tory post .... the Tories are despicable in their own way .... BUT they are less bad than the last Labour leadership.

    Today's UK is a failure of politics generally. Do yourself a favour, look up some parliament debates on YouTube from Margaret Thatcher's time - a very divisive government. It all sounds so reasonable and measured compared to the insanity that passes for "debate" now.


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    #59
    Mr. G
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 4,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr. G


    I must admit, I didn’t think Ireland would be as organised as we are. For a country that has no formed Government yet, we have implemented some fairly restrictive measures without legislation (yet) and for the most part, people are obeying them. Communication seems to be done quite well by the state and their messaging is consistent.


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    #60
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Amirani wrote: »
    If you spent any great time in the UK, particularly outside the South-East, you'd realise that things are far better for poorer people in Ireland.

    Family hubs and homelessness are awful, but our welfare system provides far greater supports than its UK equivalent.
    Yeah, but it comes at a cost, you impoverish the working class and lower end of middle class who eint be able to aspire to owning homes etc... because they are paying for free housing for others ....


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    #61
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    The way public services have been decimated here is unreal and then people trot out the tired old lines about loving the NHS while constantly voting for the party who ideologically oppose its very existence beggars belief.

    the problem British voters have is that one party is ideologically opposed to public spending while the other is ideologically opposed to Britain.


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