Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

Bananaleaf

Wow. I don't know whether to laugh or scream.

I cannot quite believe that parents here are so outraged that their kids' teachers are sending so much work to them.

I'm totally gobsmacked that some of you are in fact teachers yourselves.

I know I'm going to get slated for this but it has to be said. To those of you going mental about work being sent home - you lot need to get a grip!

Teachers are forever heckled by non-teachers for being lazy. They go on strike? Bunch of moaners. Summer time? They shouldn't get paid for that. And now, as one poster pointed out, we are in the midst of a global pandemic, where a huge percentage of the country is working from home. Yet the only group expected to 'work back the time' (that we are already working right now btw) is teachers.

Teachers are hated by a lot of the public. I get that you're up to your tonsils with your own life right now, but could you please take a moment to consider the following:

1. Maybe fancypants teacher is aware of general public perception of teachers and wants to give lots of work because she is tired of being called lazy or wants to prove herself to cynical parents who might be thinking she is now considering herself to be on 2 extra weeks holidays.

2. Maybe fancypants teacher feels guilty that she is not face-to-face with your child so she is trying to compensate by checking in regularly.

3. Maybe fancypants teacher is worried that if some students trot back into class after 4-6 weeks off and nothing done, that she will be asked by either parent or management why she didn't check in

4. Maybe fancypants teacher is trying to give you a break by assigning so many activities.

There are posts on here about teachers not sending enough work home. Sending too much home. Sending it home on the wrong platform. They truly are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

The attitude towards teachers is nothing new. Seeing it in the teaching forum though is a bit of a surprise I must admit.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Yesterday afternoon I was video conferencing with students and one student's parents came in tearing chunks out of each other. There were several other students on chat at the same time who heard them shouting in the background. I'm not going to do live videos with that group again and I think it's a real possibility at the moment in virtually any group that at least one student will be in a household where there is tension and fighting.

Bananaleaf

Adrianna Prehistoric Milk wrote: »

Yesterday afternoon I was video conferencing with students and one student's parents came in tearing chunks out of each other. There were several other students on chat at the same time who heard them shouting in the background. I'm not going to do live videos with that group again and I think it's a real possibility at the moment in virtually any group that at least one student will be in a household where there is tension and fighting.

Oh god that is awful.

You're dead right. And I totally agree that everyone is under pressure. I'm seeing it in my own family home too, but I think that taking it out on the teacher is not right (referring to previous posts, not yours)

What is funny (and this was hit on in a previous post too) is that the whole reason I'm even awake now is that I have to upload and correct my lessons at night when there is no traffic trying to access Microsoft. During the day it just keeps crashing. My working hours are completely all over the place! Makes no difference to me, but I know those with children dont have that option. Parents who are teachers are effectively doing two jobs at the moment, which is tough.

Rosita

A few points re. the decision on the Oral Irish:

I have to say that I disagree with people who say that it should have been marked down to 0% and let the aural/written count for everything. The fact is that students have been preparing for the Oral Irish exam predominantly for several months now. At least getting a mark reflects that which should be the whole point of the decision. Also to ignore the Oral would be to ignore those who attended the Gaeltacht, attended Gaelscoileanna, or who generally worked very hard at improving.

I don't see the point about those "who did no work". In all probability the majority of these will generally struggle anyway. As I said yesterday, this will be far more significant for the person who might now move from a H2 to a H1 than it will be for the person way lower down the scale. To the latter its an advantage but arguably not a significant one. Weaker students don't need to pass Irish anyway.

And yes it might confer advantages on some students but there are 'soft' advantages being given to students in the LC all the time. Those who don't do languages might feel disadvantaged by this. But those who do Irish, a challenging subject, might feel that those who did not have to do it and could choose anything they wanted had an advantage already.

I know a guy who is studying Higher Maths (25 points bonus) as well as Physics and Applied Maths. He can bring essentially the same set of broad skills to several subjects. If Maths is not your thing you can't do this.

Some schools won't have the capacity to offer several languages to those who are good at languages. Or won't have the same subject choice as others. Some who can pay for the privilege can sit in smaller classes in fee-paying schools and avail of extra tuition.

The 'fairness' of the LC stems from the idea that everyone does the same exam at the same time but once you park that it is riddled with the same inequities as society itself. In that grand picture what happened with the LC Oral Irish is not a big issue. It is not the perfect solution but the only perfect solution was for the Oral exam to take place.

It is in my view (as an Irish teacher and LC Oral examiner) a better solution than a scenario where students are up the walls knowing, with just 11 weeks to go, that suddenly everything now rides on an written exam which up to two days ago was just 60% - and everything they have been working for in recent months and all through their schooldays to some extent is up in smoke.

And as for those "doing Primary teaching"...………..they are, in the grand tradition of the LC, all being treated the same. Some might be advantaged by that. Some might be disadvantaged. That's life. Inequity is rife.

But it is important to say that it is not the role of the LC to provide the 'right' students for teacher training colleges or indeed any other third-level course. The LC is what it is. It is the job of third-level courses to decide what intake is most suitable for them. While broadly speaking people talk about the 'points-race' in crude terms, within that there are many specific requirements for courses and it is part of the role of third-level institutions to deal with that and consider what yesterday's decision might mean for that.

At least the Minister for Education's announcement creates, albeit in an imperfect situation, a reality where all students start on the grid in the same place in June while having probably half the work they have done in Irish class since the start of Fifth Year acknowledged by retaining the format of the exam. In that imperfect situation I think it's not a bad outcome.

Bobtheman

It's a real shame proper IT investment didn't occur rather than bull**** wellness programs that could be pulled from the independent and created secondments for those wanting to get out of teaching and instead bore the living **** out of their fellow teachers
With the huge downturn there will be no investment now

Windorah

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Wow. I don't know whether to laugh or scream.

I cannot quite believe that parents here are so outraged that their kids' teachers are sending so much work to them.

I'm totally gobsmacked that some of you are in fact teachers yourselves.

I know I'm going to get slated for this but it has to be said. To those of you going mental about work being sent home - you lot need to get a grip!

Teachers are forever heckled by non-teachers for being lazy. They go on strike? Bunch of moaners. Summer time? They shouldn't get paid for that. And now, as one poster pointed out, we are in the midst of a global pandemic, where a huge percentage of the country is working from home. Yet the only group expected to 'work back the time' (that we are already working right now btw) is teachers.

Teachers are hated by a lot of the public. I get that you're up to your tonsils with your own life right now, but could you please take a moment to consider the following:

1. Maybe fancypants teacher is aware of general public perception of teachers and wants to give lots of work because she is tired of being called lazy or wants to prove herself to cynical parents who might be thinking she is now considering herself to be on 2 extra weeks holidays.

2. Maybe fancypants teacher feels guilty that she is not face-to-face with your child so she is trying to compensate by checking in regularly.

3. Maybe fancypants teacher is worried that if some students trot back into class after 4-6 weeks off and nothing done, that she will be asked by either parent or management why she didn't check in

4. Maybe fancypants teacher is trying to give you a break by assigning so many activities.

There are posts on here about teachers not sending enough work home. Sending too much home. Sending it home on the wrong platform. They truly are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

The attitude towards teachers is nothing new. Seeing it in the teaching forum though is a bit of a surprise I must admit.

Maybe you aren't teaching long or maybe you just haven't developed a thick of enough skin for the very regular teaching bashing.... We cannot do right from wrong!!!

Send home work and we get accused of being "out of touch" and "unaware of what parents are currently going through". Send no work home and we are lazy, entitled scroungers.

Husband will most likely be out of work come the summer so at least that's my childcare sorted if we have to work on the double just to satisfy the mob!

hots

Adrianna Prehistoric Milk wrote: »

Yesterday afternoon I was video conferencing with students and one student's parents came in tearing chunks out of each other. There were several other students on chat at the same time who heard them shouting in the background. I'm not going to do live videos with that group again and I think it's a real possibility at the moment in virtually any group that at least one student will be in a household where there is tension and fighting.

I'm not sure what platform you're using but ff you can, try muting everyone and have the students participate by text/chat function? Some platforms allow virtual handraising too to allow you to effectively hand the mic to one user while everyone else remains muted. Fair play for giving VC teaching a go, I've done it as a student and even with a tech-savvy, third-level group it has it's challenges.

fall

I really do feel sorry for teachers where digital technology and CPD wasn't developed or prioritised in recent years. This is a really tough situation for everyone but even more stressful for those teachers.
My attitude to work coming home from the primary school is that we will focus on the literacy and numeracy material and if I can get to the other material I will. I don't think we should lose focus of the fact that this is a life or death situation and that we may all be grieving a loss of a loved one before this is all over.
Do your best, no one can ask more than that and it is not a competition.

Mardy Bum

If teachers are not sending any work home that is a problem.
If teachers are sending work home for primary school kids that they can not independently complete that is also a problem.

This is a perfect time for drill work with primary aged children. Get them to practice the basics. No need for daft projects.

Treppen

hots wrote: »

I'm not sure what platform you're using but ff you can, try muting everyone and have the students participate by text/chat function? Some platforms allow virtual handraising too to allow you to effectively hand the mic to one user while everyone else remains muted. Fair play for giving VC teaching a go, I've done it as a student and even with a tech-savvy, third-level group it has it's challenges.

Not so Easy to say when you've never used online delivery before.
There is an Issue with Teams and Google with the host of the meeting having admin rights. I tried out teams before we broke up and it was a nightmare. I had zero admin rights, students could unmute after being muted, re-join after being asked to leave, see each other's screens only, after I ended the meeting the students re-joined the same room again!! In the end Teams was getting so laggy I didn't bother. I've used online tutorials before through Blackboard in 3rd Level and it was a piece of cake, this isn't available to secondary. People are saying to try Zoom but at this stage I'm too busy to be trialing technology, not so much from my end, but from the student's end when they might just have a smartphone with 3g... and yet again I have to go through step by step on how to register with yet more new platforms.

At the moment I'm just back to using Microsoft Groups and that ancient technology called email. No way I'm going to be doing face to face classes with kids running around. We're into endgame territory with most of the students so it's up to them to produce the work now. If this had happened at the start of the school year it would be a whole different kettle of fish.

Lc2020

The department should just put us out of our misery and cancel the written exams. As it stands, I can go into a music exam and write nothing and still come out with 55 points. The integrity of the leaving cert exams has been compromised to such an extent that I just don't see the point in bothering with them.

Random sample

Does anyone know how the parent function on edmodo works?

How much can they access?

I've had a few parents add themselves this morning.

Lc2020

Rosita wrote: »

At least the Minister for Education's announcement creates, albeit in an imperfect situation, a reality where all students start on the grid in the same place in June while having probably half the work they have done in Irish class since the start of Fifth Year acknowledged by retaining the format of the exam. In that imperfect situation I think it's not a bad outcome.

way to play down a situation. We have been working towards this for months, years you could say. It's comparable to cancelling maths/english p1. It's a pathetic solution. I appreciate there's more pressing matters at the moment but all the work I put into the orals with nothing to show for is really disheartening. The minister is doing a disservice to the students who actually did work.

ShamoBuc

Lc2020 wrote: »

The department should just put us out of our misery and cancel the written exams. As it stands, I can go into a music exam and write nothing and still come out with 55 points. The integrity of the leaving cert exams has been compromised to such an extent that I just don't see the point in bothering with them.

Overreact much?

Only part of a few exams have been catered for. How does that have an effect on History? Maths? etc.

A decision was made. It takes some pressure off students, for now. It gives the Dept time. We are still in March.

Lc2020

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Overreact much?

Only part of a few exams have been catered for. How does that have an effect on History? Maths? etc.

A decision was made. It takes some pressure off students, for now. It gives the Dept time. We are still in March.

This is not an overreaction. I'm merely pointing out the ramifications of the minister's highly flawed solution. It does not take the pressure off of students, I can tell you that. Students who were going to do well in the orals, and have that edge over other students, will now be deprived of this advantage going into the written exams.

Come June, if the LC is cancelled, will the minister's "tried and tested", and "fair" solution be applied with all students being given 100 % ?Where will this leave us ?

To suggest this is a good solution is to turn a blind eye to the work thousands of students did in preparation for these exams.

ShamoBuc

Its not turning a blind eye at all. It's making a decision that allows them move foward. A decision had to be made.

What would you have done??

TTLF

Guys Idk if video streaming is gonna work for me
I was in a maths video conference w/ my teacher and 8 others in my class (who bothered to show up) and my teacher decided to take the role

As he's marking attendance, some kid goes "heeere" in a funny voice and obviously people start laughing.

My teacher just freaks out and cancels the whole "live" and the class lasted 20 minutes. I know it's bad out on the 1-2 messers in this OL maths class, but like, come on... I wanted to know I was on the right track with my homework/assignments as I find maths hard...

We have to do this for possibly 3 more months?? are you for real???

Shn99

The minister and SEC have done the best they can in these extraordinary times. Extraordinary times result in extraordinary measures. Id be fairly confident that student wellbeing is high up on their agenda. Students who may have lost out as a result of the Oral decision will recover that elsewhere. What do you propose they do if the LC is axed? Estimated grades? I, myself would be devastated if that was the case.

Mardy Bum

TTLF wrote: »

Guys Idk if video streaming is gonna work for me
I was in a maths video conference w/ my teacher and 8 others in my class (who bothered to show up) and my teacher decided to take the role

As he's marking attendance, some kid goes "heeere" in a funny voice and obviously people start laughing.

My teacher just freaks out and cancels the whole "live" and the class lasted 20 minutes. I know it's bad out on the 1-2 messers in this OL maths class, but like, come on... I wanted to know I was on the right track with my homework/assignments as I find maths hard...

We have to do this for possibly 3 more months?? are you for real???

A good life lesson for all concerned. Live lessons are foolish for the vast majority of cohorts and only work with very a specific cohort.

Lc2020

Shn99 wrote: »

The minister and SEC have done the best they can in these extraordinary times. Extraordinary times result in extraordinary measures. Id be fairly confident that student wellbeing is high up on their agenda. Students who may have lost out as a result of the Oral decision will recover that elsewhere. What do you propose they do if the LC is axed? Estimated grades? I, myself would be devastated if that was the case.

This will cost some students their college course.
You don't mess with an exam students have been preparing for night and day.
The LC and orals should be postponed. Not cancelled. Not predicted grades. Postpone them until it's safe to do them.

Lc2020

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Its not turning a blind eye at all

What would you have done??

It totally disregards the work of many. You just don't get it. I would have postponed them. As I said I can now get a H5 in music without showing up in June.
Students are being awarded marks for work they didn't do.

Mardy Bum

Lc2020 wrote: »

This will cost some students their college course.
You don't mess with an exam students have been preparing for night and day.
The LC and orals should be postponed. Not cancelled. Not predicted grades. Postpone them until it's safe to do them.

I believe all projects will be end up cancelled so it will be an even playing field.

heldel00

Mardy Bum wrote: »

If teachers are not sending any work home that is a problem.
If teachers are sending work home for primary school kids that they can not independently complete that is also a problem.

This is a perfect time for drill work with primary aged children. Get them to practice the basics. No need for daft projects.

If I could thank this a 1000 times I would. Curric is so overloaded that we tend to assume that the basics are done and scoot on because there is so much to be covered. Children in 5th class not knowing times tables for example. Revision all the way for the closure in my opinion.

km79

Unfollows for the weekend
And logged out of all school accounts

Just have to hope no school texts come through over weekend .....

Shn99

Lc2020 wrote: »

The LC and orals should be postponed. Not cancelled. Not predicted grades. Postpone them until it's safe to do them.

The thing is, nobody knows when this will blow over, nobody knows when it would have been safe to do orals/practicals. The minister for education nor the SEC have a crystal ball. Im with you on being against cancelling the LC but its unprecedented whats happening. In the UK they have formally announced in the past few hours that all A-Levels, GCSE's have been axed, teachers will have to submit the grades they think the student would have got, based off mocks and past work, However students will be given the option to sit a proper exam if they wish to do so when things return to normal.

pandoraj09

acequion wrote: »

Help!! Tearing my hair out here!

I'm trying to correct work which my students sent into google classroom. I created an assignment, had them all submit it there which they did, some typed, some as a photo. Fine but to correct it? As in how to underline mistakes and tick the good things? This is French where there are loads of spelling and grammar mistakes. I see no editing pen there and yes I've clicked into the work. Nothing but some kind of comment box. Fine to leave a comment but I need to annotate the work.

What to do? I've downloaded PDF editor, would that help?

Thanks guys! This is all a million times harder than going to school, teaching and taking home the physical copies where all you need is your trusty red biro!

I'm exactly the same. I teach Irish and Spanish and need to correct mistakes as I go along. I was told it's not possible on google classroom. You can just leave a comment in the box on the right hand side of the assignment. I'm writing their mistakes down then entering them all in the big comment box before I return it to the student. It's taking forever. Then students are emailing me saying they can't open the files I sent so I'm trying to send them in another format.

Lc2020

Shn99 wrote: »

The thing is, nobody knows when this will blow over, nobody knows when it would have been safe to do orals/practicals. The minister for education nor the SEC have a crystal ball. Im with you on being against cancelling the LC but its unprecedented whats happening. In the UK they have formally announced in the past few hours that all A-Levels, GCSE's have been axed, teachers will have to submit the grades they think the student would have got, based off mocks and past work, However students will be given the option to sit a proper exam if they wish to do so when things return to normal.

Well clearly they think it'll be over by the end of the Easter holidays if they're going through with other practicals/project work. Would it really be too much to ask the SEC to organise the orals in May? No it wouldn't. Minister can't be arsed and is looking for a quick fix solution.

Shn99

Lc2020 wrote: »

Well clearly they think it'll be over by the end of the Easter holidays if they're going through with other practicals/project work. Would it really be too much to ask the SEC to organise the orals in May? No it wouldn't. Minister can't be arsed and is looking for a quick fix solution.

They do not know when it will be over, Joe McHugh said himself that the other practicals will remain under review and said, that we don't even know where we will be next week in terms of COVID19

Lc2020

Shn99 wrote: »

They do not know when it will be over, Joe McHugh said himself that the other practicals will remain under review and said, that we don't even know where we will be next week in terms of COVID19

England is much more forthcoming with information to students. A levels and GCSEs cancelled and students' minds are put at ease. Meanwhile in Ireland, we have a minister who adds to students' strife by instigating this unfair system.

Gerry T

Lc2020 wrote: »

England is much more forthcoming with information to students. A levels and GCSEs cancelled and students' minds are put at ease. Meanwhile in Ireland, we have a minister who adds to students' strife by instigating this unfair system.

England is a cop-out, how will they do 3rd level places, it's a mess. Their more interested in keeping industry moving. Kids don't need to do on-line classes so parents are free to work. Younger kids stay with grandparents (infecting them). Meanwhile their pubs etc remain open. Their heading to be the next Italy at the way their going.
I think we should stop holding the UK up as an example of how to do things, look at how they've handled things since 2016, enough said.