Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

History Queen

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

All public sector employees in admin haven't even been redeployed yet so we're a long way from that.

True. Also apologies mods...only realised after I posted that someone had already opened a thread on this topic.

km79

History Queen wrote: »

Has anyone hear anything from their schools about redeployment?

Just came across this on Twitter and am wondering how it'll work for teachers? As in, how will classes be taught? I'm absolutely willing if they deem it necessary but what will happen my classes?

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1244686462513106947?s=19

The circular is the public sector one slightly amended
It says educational personnel who are not deemed necessary for educational purposes at this point in time
I’m paraphrasing a bit
But basically not teachers
Possibly SNAs

And perhaps teachers seconded by the JCT team
We could survive without their webinars
And the relentless tweeting about them !

Bananaleaf

political analyst wrote: »

It would still be possible to re-open secondary schools while maintaining distance among pupils by only letting those pupils who are scheduled to sit State exams - Junior and Leaving Cert - this June return to class and dispersing them into smaller groups in classrooms that would be vacant in that scenario - the same could be done during the exams themselves.

I thought of this myself, but it wouldn't work as I've 30 in a class - that's 31 of us all in the same room - there isn't a room in the school bar the PE hall that could house us all properly according to social distancing.

My entire timetable this year is made up of 3rd and 6th yrs, so it wouldn't even be possible for me to take my classes half at a time, unless I only took them twice a week each for an hr - which probably would work.

Provided none of them were contagious that is - my father is immunocompromised and I would place his life above their JCs and LCs any day

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

Has anyone hear anything from their schools about redeployment?

Just came across this on Twitter and am wondering how it'll work for teachers? As in, how will classes be taught? I'm absolutely willing if they deem it necessary but what will happen my classes?

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1244686462513106947?s=19

Will impact on SNAs more so than teachers. Their union Forsa have already pretty much agreed to it.

political analyst

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I thought of this myself, but it wouldn't work as I've 30 in a class - that's 31 of us all in the same room - there isn't a room in the school bar the PE hall that could house us all properly according to social distancing.

My entire timetable this year is made up of 3rd and 6th yrs, so it wouldn't even be possible for me to take my classes half at a time, unless I only took them twice a week each for an hr - which probably would work.

Provided none of them were contagious that is - my father is immunocompromised and I would place his life above their JCs and LCs any day

I've never heard of a teacher having exam-year pupils only. At the school I attended, there were 500 to 600 pupils and so, at most, a teacher might have no 1st and 2nd years or no 2nd years and no 4th years (LC was 5th Year at the time and 6th Year was LC Repeat). How many pupils are there in your school?

deiseindublin

I don't think it would work for only exam years to come in. If school starts at 9am, they'd all rock on up to the door between 858 and 902. Bell times would be a nightmare, CV or not.

Rosita

political analyst wrote: »

It would still be possible to re-open secondary schools while maintaining distance among pupils by only letting those pupils who are scheduled to sit State exams - Junior and Leaving Cert - this June return to class and dispersing them into smaller groups in classrooms that would be vacant in that scenario - the same could be done during the exams themselves.

That’s completely impractical though. A teacher can be in only one place at one time. If separating students is all you want to do it might be possible but to teach them they need some kind of common timetable. Likewise in the exams they need superintendents, readers etc. available for each room so there are significant limitations to that suggestion. No way will both state exams happen in June. In fact the extension of NCT certificates and driving licenses for no less than six months tells me the government believes this is a long term issue. The idea of holding the JC and LC in June might be laughable looking back in the autumn.

political analyst

https://www.echolive.ie/opinion/We-cant-sit-our-Leaving-Cert-in-a-pandemic-says-Cork-student-56c3b2ec-3395-4436-934c-0b8222821a9a-ds

One of the plans that has been spoken about a lot is that of deferring the exams until a date as late as September. You only need to ask a Leaving Cert student to find out how harmful this proposal is.

We have missed out on so much school and we will miss out on so much more.

Online learning is in place, yes, but it does not work for everyone. There are students that don’t have access to the technology needed. There are students that don’t have a safe space to learn. There are many, many students that will be touched by this virus. And that scares us.

Some of us will get sick. Some of us will lose people. Some of us may even die.

When all of these things are true, how can you possibly expect us to sit our final exams?

This is a terrifying time for everyone. This pandemic makes us so very afraid. We see on the news how serious it is and yet we are still expected to put our heads down and continue studying for an exam that we can’t even see taking place.

With few solutions left, one seems to be the best option: predictive grading.

It would consist of looking at marks from a collection of our previous exams and advice from teachers as to what we could have expected in June.

While it may give rise to some problems and while it is completely different from previous years, it does seem like the best option for this current situation.

Predictive grading levels the playing field. It is based on the work that we have already completed.

It doesn’t discriminate against those that do not have access to online learning, nor against those that will be heavily impacted by the virus.

r93kaey5p2izun

political analyst wrote: »

I've never heard of a teacher having exam-year pupils only. At the school I attended, there were 500 to 600 pupils and so, at most, a teacher might have no 1st and 2nd years or no 2nd years and no 4th years (LC was 5th Year at the time and 6th Year was LC Repeat). How many pupils are there in your school?

It's not that uncommon, it's just the way it falls sometimes. Some years I would have had two 3rd Year Science groups, 3rd Year Maths, 3rd Year CSPE, 6th Year Maths, 6th Year Biology and LCA Maths and LCA Science. That's a full timetable of exam classes.

Also, regarding exams and social distancing - have you factored in how many students are entitled to a separate centre for reasonable accommodations? In my school we would never have had any rooms free during core subjects - even offices would all be in use. So if you then add social distancing into the mix, there's just no way there could be enough rooms, even during option subjects.

Bananaleaf

political analyst wrote: »

I've never heard of a teacher having exam-year pupils only. At the school I attended, there were 500 to 600 pupils and so, at most, a teacher might have no 1st and 2nd years or no 2nd years and no 4th years (LC was 5th Year at the time and 6th Year was LC Repeat). How many pupils are there in your school?

There are about 1200 pupils in our school.

I teach two subjects, English and a language.

I have a leaving cert class in English and the language and then I co-teach a third LC English group (I share them with a career breaker)

I then have 3 JC classes - 1 English and two language classes.

My timetable wasn't designed this way, 2 of the JC classes I inherited in 2nd year when their teacher didn't return after the summer and 2 of the LC classes I only took up in 6th yr because of teacher shortage.

I've also 2 periods of learning support which are not actually with 3rds or 6ths so I suppose strictly speaking my entire timetable isn't filled with JC and LCs, but I meant that all of my teaching groups are.

Purefrank128

Susan Quiet Stool wrote: »

It's not that uncommon, it's just the way it falls sometimes. Some years I would have had two 3rd Year Science groups, 3rd Year Maths, 3rd Year CSPE, 6th Year Maths, 6th Year Biology and LCA Maths and LCA Science. That's a full timetable of exam classes.

There is no subject called LCA Science.

Could you possibly mean LCA Agriculture/Horticulture?

Bobtheman

The speculation here is all over the place. I doubt the department even have worked out what to do. A lot will depend on the surge of the virus . Nothing else.

TheValeyard

km79 wrote: »

And perhaps teachers seconded by the JCT team
We could survive without their webinars
And the relentless tweeting about them !

Ha! Off ya go with your mentimeter, post-it's and A3 sheets of paper ya bowsie

Rosita

TheValeyard wrote: »

Ha! Off ya go with your mentimeter, post-it's and A3 sheets of paper ya bowsie

Yeah, we should probably get into groups and make a poster if we are discussing the JCT people properly really shouldn't we?

combat14

South Korea has cancelled the planned re-opening of schools next week because of the danger of the coronavirus as clusters of infections flare, and will instead launch online classes while delaying the annual college entrance exams.

After an early surge in cases, South Korea has managed to bring down its rate of new infections to about 100 or fewer a day, but groups of cases in churches, hospitals and nursing homes, as well as imported cases, are still emerging.

Authorities have postponed the beginning of the new school semester three times from early March to 6 April, and have decided to do so again, given the persistence of the outbreak.

combat14

China will delay its national college entrance exam by a month as it grapples with a coronavirus pandemic as travellers returning from abroad are fuelling new cases and boosting concern over the threat of a second wave of infections.

The two-day "gaokao" annual test will be pushed back to 7-8 July, China Central Television said, with Hubei province, where the virus emerged late last year, and Beijing,the capital, being given more leeway in scheduling it.

The delay to the test, seen as opening the way to a life of opportunity and taken by more than 10 million students last year, is the latest sign of China's struggle to resume normal life after widespread lockdowns aimed at reining in the virus.

Rosita

Bobtheman wrote: »

The speculation here is all over the place. I doubt the department even have worked out what to do. A lot will depend on the surge of the virus . Nothing else.

Not sure anyone had suggested that decisions unrelated to the progress of the virus would be taken. What else could possibly inform decisions?

I would disagree on the 'surge' however. My understanding of the surge as a factor in planning is simply an effort to anticipate the surge to ensure that the hospitals can cope with the numbers.

It's doesn't seem like the surge will come and we'll all be back to school the following Monday and everything is over. It seems to me like we might be living with restrictions in some shape or form (staggered timetables, students/teachers working from home some days) maybe even for the entirity of the school year next year never mind this year.

I would be surprised if the Department and the SEC hadn't formulated a few 'what if?' strategies already. Though inevitably like the schools closing it will be announced as late as possible when the decision is forced on them.

mirrorwall14

combat14 wrote: »

China will delay its national college entrance exam by a month as it grapples with a coronavirus pandemic as travellers returning from abroad are fuelling new cases and boosting concern over the threat of a second wave of infections.

The two-day "gaokao" annual test will be pushed back to 7-8 July, China Central Television said, with Hubei province, where the virus emerged late last year, and Beijing,the capital, being given more leeway in scheduling it.

The delay to the test, seen as opening the way to a life of opportunity and taken by more than 10 million students last year, is the latest sign of China's struggle to resume normal life after widespread lockdowns aimed at reining in the virus.

That’s a huge test to postpone logistically. And they’ve picked a date beyond ours is even due to begin. It’s our LC but scaled for their massive population

Rosita

combat14 wrote: »

China will delay its national college entrance exam by a month as it grapples with a coronavirus pandemic as travellers returning from abroad are fuelling new cases and boosting concern over the threat of a second wave of infections.

The two-day "gaokao" annual test will be pushed back to 7-8 July, China Central Television said, with Hubei province, where the virus emerged late last year, and Beijing,the capital, being given more leeway in scheduling it.

The delay to the test, seen as opening the way to a life of opportunity and taken by more than 10 million students last year, is the latest sign of China's struggle to resume normal life after widespread lockdowns aimed at reining in the virus.

That's interesting from a country some try to present as (a) one where the problem was isolated to particular regions only and (b) where it has been dealt with and 'normal' life has returned. Normal life will come very slowly and very gradually I reckon. The surge might go but the infection will linger.

km79

Rosita wrote: »

That's interesting from a country some try to present as (a) one where the problem was isolated to particular regions only and (b) where it has been dealt with and 'normal' life has returned. Normal life will come very slowly and very gradually I reckon. The surge might go but the infection will linger.

Agreed
And schools will be one of the last workplaces to reopen
I’m beginning to wonder will we have a staggered return next September now never mind this year

I was talking to a college lecturer last night . He said initially they were told see ye in July..........and now some of them are thinking college intake will be postponed until January. Foreign student intake make up a lot the colleges finances and they will lose out on most of that if college starts in September
I assume he meant first year intake ......

Bobtheman

Rosita wrote: »

Not sure anyone had suggested that decisions unrelated to the progress of the virus would be taken. What else could possibly inform decisions?

I would disagree on the 'surge' however. My understanding of the surge as a factor in planning is simply an effort to anticipate the surge to ensure that the hospitals can cope with the numbers.

It's doesn't seem like the surge will come and we'll all be back to school the following Monday and everything is over. It seems to me like we might be living with restrictions in some shape or form (staggered timetables, students/teachers working from home some days) maybe even for the entirity of the school year next year never mind this year.

I would be surprised if the Department and the SEC hadn't formulated a few 'what if?' strategies already. Though inevitably like the schools closing it will be announced as late as possible when the decision is forced on them.

You are right. I didn't mean that once the surge is over we would head back to school. Just we might have a clearer idea how long this might last. I have major doubts about the ability of the department to plan. They simply don't have the resources or systems in place - even before this virus. Further school closures won't be announced up until last minute as you stated - is clear proof of that

jimmytwotimes 2013

Rosita wrote: »

Yeah, we should probably get into groups and make a poster if we are discussing the JCT people properly really shouldn't we?

I want you to sit at a table now for the next 20 minutes and talk with your colleagues about that.

Due to virus you'll perform this task by yourself.

I'll return for feedback at which point you'll say "I think my point has been covered by the other tables"

scrubs33

Rosita wrote: »

Not sure anyone had suggested that decisions unrelated to the progress of the virus would be taken. What else could possibly inform decisions?

I would disagree on the 'surge' however. My understanding of the surge as a factor in planning is simply an effort to anticipate the surge to ensure that the hospitals can cope with the numbers.

It's doesn't seem like the surge will come and we'll all be back to school the following Monday and everything is over. It seems to me like we might be living with restrictions in some shape or form (staggered timetables, students/teachers working from home some days) maybe even for the entirity of the school year next year never mind this year.

I would be surprised if the Department and the SEC hadn't formulated a few 'what if?' strategies already. Though inevitably like the schools closing it will be announced as late as possible when the decision is forced on them.

I really do think that 6th years will be back well before the end of the term. A little bit of creative timetabling would do wonders even with regard to social spacing. For example take the usual 9-11 classes. First class is English across the board with a max of 15 in each room. Second class is also English again max of 15 to cater for larger classes. Third class students disperse to different rooms for video call with principal/guidance counsellor. Well dispersed as no one else is in school and can be done on individual devices. Alternate with Maths and Irish over the course of the week. Students break at 11 and supervising teachers do their normal jobs and keep them 2 meters apart.

Mid morning sessions run from 11.30 to 1. Classes here are the ones which are the most popular in school but don’t require practical activity so Geography etc could go in here. Again depending on numbers you might have two teachers teaching the same subject at the same time but in different rooms. That’s a double period and allows for both teaching and exam preparation/analysis. Could be done on one or two days depending on demand and the same then applies for other subjects on other days so the pupils get another 3 subjects covered.

I would devote the afternoon sessions from 1.30 to 3.30 for practical subjects/experiments etc. Granted you are placing a huge swathe of the school at a disadvantage but it is workable especially (fingers crossed) if the mood music around containment is accurate.

deiseindublin

Totally unworkable. How would you get them all in at 9am? Even at 15 in a class, they couldn't be 2m apart, not to mention all the drama queens hugging each other because they hadn't seen each other in a few weeks.

acequion

Rosita wrote: »

Not sure anyone had suggested that decisions unrelated to the progress of the virus would be taken. What else could possibly inform decisions?

I would disagree on the 'surge' however. My understanding of the surge as a factor in planning is simply an effort to anticipate the surge to ensure that the hospitals can cope with the numbers.

It's doesn't seem like the surge will come and we'll all be back to school the following Monday and everything is over. It seems to me like we might be living with restrictions in some shape or form (staggered timetables, students/teachers working from home some days) maybe even for the entirity of the school year next year never mind this year.

I would be surprised if the Department and the SEC hadn't formulated a few 'what if?' strategies already. Though inevitably like the schools closing it will be announced as late as possible when the decision is forced on them.

Speculation!! And just your opinion at that. What is the point in it? It just ramps up anxiety levels and they're high enough already.

Day by day and just doing what we can for now, teacher and student, is the best way to get through this. The future really is a mystery here so why go there??

scrubs33

deiseindublin wrote: »

Totally unworkable. How would you get them all in at 9am? Even at 15 in a class, they couldn't be 2m apart, not to mention all the drama queens hugging each other because they hadn't seen each other in a few weeks.

Fair points but I really do feel that the Dept/Managerial Bodies/Unions will need to start coming up with suggestions and have them agreed for the next announcement by the Taoiseach i.e best, worst and medium case scenarios whatever the numbers indicate by then.

Rosita

acequion wrote: »

Speculation!! And just your opinion at that. What is the point in it? It just ramps up anxiety levels and they're high enough already.

Day by day and just doing what we can for now, teacher and student, is the best way to get through this. The future really is a mystery here so why go there??

Of course its speculation. It's not possible to discuss the future without speculating since by definition we don't know what's going to happen. All posts will be speculative to some degree. No harm in that necessarily. I do take the thrust of your point but doubt I have the rhetorical power to create anxiety among sensible people.

mirrorwall14

scrubs33 wrote: »

I really do think that 6th years will be back well before the end of the term. A little bit of creative timetabling would do wonders even with regard to social spacing. For example take the usual 9-11 classes. First class is English across the board with a max of 15 in each room. Second class is also English again max of 15 to cater for larger classes. Third class students disperse to different rooms for video call with principal/guidance counsellor. Well dispersed as no one else is in school and can be done on individual devices. Alternate with Maths and Irish over the course of the week. Students break at 11 and supervising teachers do their normal jobs and keep them 2 meters apart.

Mid morning sessions run from 11.30 to 1. Classes here are the ones which are the most popular in school but don’t require practical activity so Geography etc could go in here. Again depending on numbers you might have two teachers teaching the same subject at the same time but in different rooms. That’s a double period and allows for both teaching and exam preparation/analysis. Could be done on one or two days depending on demand and the same then applies for other subjects on other days so the pupils get another 3 subjects covered.

I would devote the afternoon sessions from 1.30 to 3.30 for practical subjects/experiments etc. Granted you are placing a huge swathe of the school at a disadvantage but it is workable especially (fingers crossed) if the mood music around containment is accurate.

I have a small group of music students this year at 14 students. Even with that there is never more than one table gap between students never mind two metres. I just can’t see how it would work. I think it would have to be max 8-10 and even then. There’s a nice maths problem there for the size of the standard classroom with social distancing....

That would mean I would need to teach my class twice. And maths teaches would need to split their group in three and teach it three times. The timetable would become very difficult to operate very quickly trying to fit students subjects in. You would definitely end up having to reduce tuition time substantially. Having said that, some contact time is better than none in my opinion!

rainbowtrout

deiseindublin wrote: »

Totally unworkable. How would you get them all in at 9am? Even at 15 in a class, they couldn't be 2m apart, not to mention all the drama queens hugging each other because they hadn't seen each other in a few weeks.

Not completely unworkable, if exam classes were brought in as suggested and put into smaller groups and a localised timetable be put in place. Blocked subjects for 1 hour blocks or whatever. Drama queens or otherwise, I think they'll have had enough of this to know not to go near people and behave like described. I think they'd be grateful to get some sort of normality back in their lives.

Queuing works in shops with a distance of 2m apart, why wouldn't that work for entry to a school, particularly if you only had exam years in on a reduced timetable?

Rosita

scrubs33 wrote: »

Geography etc could go in here. Again depending on numbers you might have two teachers teaching the same subject at the same time but in different rooms. .

This is what I assumed would happen but ironically reading your proposed timetable I question its workability. You mention here two Geography classes but in my school those two classes are packed to the doors. It is not possible in a social distancing scenario to retain that arrangement. So the idea that you could tidily timetable Geography into a time-slot and have regular classes doesn't work. I'd say you are looking at classes in the hall at best, and maybe one subject at a time.

And none of this deals with social distancing at lockers, toilets, break-times, and general movement in coming and going.