Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

Bobtheman

Rosita wrote: »

But the problem there surely is not the LC itself but college entry system? The LC is for everyone. But of course they won't all do the same.

What is not for everyone is any college course they want. It's hard to imagine any LC system that will not have high achievers and those who struggle.

When I did my LC in 1989-you basically just had five universities and the regional TECHs. Now you have so so many backdoor routes that anybody who wants to do x degree will get to do it eventually if they want once they show they are capable in that area. Thats my rough idea of options today. Trinity in particular offer huge backdoor routes to the disadavataged in particular

Bobtheman

Benicetomonty wrote: »

I think the LC will go ahead. Courses may already have been completed in subjects before we were sent home and there is no reason why any remaining modules cant be covered through remote learning.

Certainly students with poor broadband and those with SENs will be at a disadvantage but probably not to the extent that 1 or 2 subject areas cant be made accessible over the space of 2 full months. Hopefully some concessions/contingencies can be put into place as well if they are deemed necessary.
Certainly theyre going to have to make some very unpopular decisions in the next few weeks, but theyve already shown that theyre capable of doing so given what they did with the orals. Obviously the issue of accessing the building itself is a very different one but again, I expect theyll come up with something. First up will be cancelling the JC imho.

But Im only speculating of course.

The oral decision was a total and utter joke. Billy does no study and gets 100% in his oral. Tommy studies everyday and gets 100%?!
They should have just said the written paper stands as is and the orals done later. It was a panic decision.

jrosen

I think the oral decision was a mistake. I cant see the LC going ahead. Im glad I dont have exam students. 2 friends do and they so far are keeping their boys on track, study going well and both said the teachers have been incredible.

I think if the LC cant go ahead then predicted grades have to be the way forward imo. Not fair but the fairest. Use mock results as a guide, teacher feed back and overall class work and homework to come up with as best a % as possible.
Of course some will fair better this way that perhaps they would have and visa versa. But if it means college application can go ahead then its worth it.

Benicetomonty

Bobtheman wrote: »

The oral decision was a total and utter joke. Billy does no study and gets 100% in his oral. Tommy studies everyday and gets 100%?!
They should have just said the written paper stands as is and the orals done later. It was a panic decision.

I agree with you re: the orals. It wasnt a great decision but it was decisive. Expect more of the same over the next few weeks.

Benicetomonty

jrosen wrote: »

I think the oral decision was a mistake. I cant see the LC going ahead. Im glad I dont have exam students. 2 friends do and they so far are keeping their boys on track, study going well and both said the teachers have been incredible.

I think if the LC cant go ahead then predicted grades have to be the way forward imo. Not fair but the fairest. Use mock results as a guide, teacher feed back and overall class work and homework to come up with as best a % as possible.
Of course some will fair better this way that perhaps they would have and visa versa. But if it means college application can go ahead then its worth it.

There is no way this will happen. Teachers will not grade their own students for state certificate purposes. The govt tried their best to force this upon us in Junior Cycle and the best they could do was the CBAs (which are bad enough); there is zero chance theyl do it for something as high stakes as the LC. If nothing else, the precedant will have been set-"ye did it before, so ye can do it again".

The mocks are no guide at all. Standard of corrections gets worse every year. Thats a non-runner. So the exams will happen, one way (and day) or another!

Gal2glam

jrosen wrote: »

I think the oral decision was a mistake. I cant see the LC going ahead. Im glad I dont have exam students. 2 friends do and they so far are keeping their boys on track, study going well and both said the teachers have been incredible.

I think if the LC cant go ahead then predicted grades have to be the way forward imo. Not fair but the fairest. Use mock results as a guide, teacher feed back and overall class work and homework to come up with as best a % as possible.
Of course some will fair better this way that perhaps they would have and visa versa. But if it means college application can go ahead then its worth it.

Hugely unfair that’s assuming everyone is in a normal school based setting. I sat my repeat leaving cert externally and worked part time. That means I had no teacher contact, just went and sat my exams at the local school. How could you give grades to a student in my situation?

Treppen

Bobtheman wrote: »

The oral decision was a total and utter joke. Billy does no study and gets 100% in his oral. Tommy studies everyday and gets 100%?!
They should have just said the written paper stands as is and the orals done later. It was a panic decision.

Billy does no study and gets 100% will be the same Billy that does no study for the written.

It's not exact but I think it will still 'relatively' be the same grade distribution. I also think it's time to let the oral/practical decision go.

Orals done later require teachers and conferences later. By later do you mean July, August when there's no prep time and possibly no teachers available? Plus that will definitely delay college entry.

Treppen

jrosen wrote: »

I think the oral decision was a mistake. I cant see the LC going ahead. Im glad I dont have exam students. 2 friends do and they so far are keeping their boys on track, study going well and both said the teachers have been incredible.

I think if the LC cant go ahead then predicted grades have to be the way forward imo. Not fair but the fairest. Use mock results as a guide, teacher feed back and overall class work and homework to come up with as best a % as possible.
Of course some will fair better this way that perhaps they would have and visa versa. But if it means college application can go ahead then its worth it.

Absolutely zero chance of predicted grades. I wouldn't be surprised if the department try it on though.

Mardy Bum

The minute anyone mentions predicted grades it is a perfect sign they know nothing about the Irish education system. The media coverage about it is embarrassing.

chickenlittle

Parent of a LC here. Seriously hope they won’t use mock results for anything. So many students had copies of the mock papers beforehand. My dd's English teacher gave them some of questions, from the mocks paper, to do at home before the exams as homework.

Bobtheman

They either hold a public written exam or they don't. Any other nonsense solution such as predicted grade is open to legal action. A delay is on the cards pure and simple.

Bobtheman

chickenlittle wrote: »

Parent of a LC here. Seriously hope they won’t use mock results for anything. So many students had copies of the mock papers beforehand. My dd's English teacher gave them some of questions, from the mocks paper, to do at home before the exams as homework.

That's widespread. Plus no real quality control in the mocks as the leaving. I was always in favour of making the 2/3 hours of exam students face less stressful such as external continuous assessment. Writing a short story off the top of your head ? In an hour. Ludicrous. But I don't want to assess my own students. Sure I find it hard to fail oral CBA in 2nd year

km79

Bobtheman wrote: »

That's widespread. Plus no real quality control in the mocks as the leaving. I was always in favour of making the 2/3 hours of exam students face less stressful such as external continuous assessment. Writing a short story off the top of your head ? In an hour. Ludicrous. But I don't want to assess my own students. Sure I find it hard to fail oral CBA in 2nd year

It’s absolutely bonkers
Even some of the so called “better “ students may not have done as well in the house exams , mocks etc as the courses were not finished for mocks and they may have had a longer term study plan than Xmas or mocks !!!!!
They are in a system where their exams in June were when the points were going to be given out
That’s what they were working towards
All the rest were practices or maybe even hinderances...........

I can tell you for a fact my mocks were well below my final grades for a few of the reasons listed above
I knew I would perform when it mattered in June
You can’t rewrite the rules mid season
That would be grossly unfair

jrmb

Ger Roe

Just announced on RTE 1 news that De Taoish reckons state exams are still going to happen.

I am glad my teenager is in TY year - the current situation of all of us cooped up together for 24 hrs with two of us trying to work from home, is not a great environment to be trying to study in. Also they have missed several weeks of school teaching already and are under a kind of stress that no other exam candidates have had to endure in the history of the state.

How fair is it to put them through an exam in an environment of death, job loss, and home confinement? It will be even more cruel to keep the party line going that the exams are continuing only to call them off at the last minute, as I still suspect will happen.

km79

Ger Roe wrote: »

Just announced on RTE 1 news that De Taoish reckons state exams are still going to happen.

I am glad my teenager is in TY year - the current situation of all of us cooped up together for 24 hrs with two of us trying to work from home, is not a great environment to be trying to study in. Also they have missed several weeks of school teaching already and are under a kind of stress that no other exam candidates have had to endure in the history of the state.

How fair is it to put them through an exam in an environment of death, job loss, and home confinement? It will be even more cruel to keep the party line going that the exams are continuing only to call them off at the last minute, as I still suspect will happen.

I’m sure a lot of parents are happy for them to keep to the party line so that their children continue to engage with school work and keep a routine !
If they went the other way there would be people moaning
They are doing the right thing
I suspect things may become clearer by Easter Sunday anyway
Restarting after Easter might be a tough sell !!!!

Ger Roe

km79 wrote: »

I’m sure a lot of parents are happy for them to keep to the party line so that their children continue to engage with school work and keep a routine !
If they went the other way there would be people moaning
They are doing the right thing
I suspect things may become clearer by Easter Sunday anyway
Restarting after Easter might be a tough sell !!!!

Yeah, but with the best will in the world and as it goes on longer..... they won't. My point is that they are already at a distinct and unfair disadvantage and can't possibly perform to their best potential under current circumstances.

If it goes ahead under those circumstances it is unfair to them and if it is called off at a late stage it is also unfair.

As a parent who has been through the process several times before, I would not be happy that state exams are being held under such circumstances where my child has less direct educational input and more stress than would normally be expected.

randylonghorn

Problem is Ger, whether it's called off or not (early or late) it's going to be unfair at some level.

There are no perfect solutions to this one. We have never been here before.

km79

Ger Roe wrote: »

Yeah, but with the best will in the world and as it goes on longer..... they won't. My point is that they are already at a distinct and unfair disadvantage and can't possibly perform to their best potential under current circumstances.

If it goes ahead under those circumstances it is unfair to them and if it is called off at a late stage it is also unfair.

As a parent who has been through the process several times before, I would not be happy that state exams are being held under such circumstances where my child has less direct educational input and more stress than would normally be expected.

But all of the students he/she is “competing” with are in the same boat?
So basically the only way around it is to restart them all in leaving cert again next year and repeat the year ?

I don’t know what will happen tbh
No right or wrong way at this stage

Treppen

km79 wrote: »

But all of the students he/she is “competing” with are in the same boat?
So basically the only way around it is to restart them all in leaving cert again next year and repeat the year ?

I don’t know what will happen tbh
No right or wrong way at this stage

All 6th year students repeat the year would mean ALL students, from Junior Infants to 6th Year

TheValeyard

Ger Roe wrote: »

Just announced on RTE 1 news that De Taoish reckons state exams are still going to happen.

I am glad my teenager is in TY year - the current situation of all of us cooped up together for 24 hrs with two of us trying to work from home, is not a great environment to be trying to study in. Also they have missed several weeks of school teaching already and are under a kind of stress that no other exam candidates have had to endure in the history of the state.

How fair is it to put them through an exam in an environment of death, job loss, and home confinement? It will be even more cruel to keep the party line going that the exams are continuing only to call them off at the last minute, as I still suspect will happen.

How have they missed several weeks of teaching????

Also nearly all teachers are engaged in online classes and teaching to the best of their ability.

As for sixth years the vast majority of work is done and after Easter the focus would probably be revision and exam papers.

Minister has to keep saying exams will keep going or students will just stop putting the effort in.

Ger Roe

[QUOTE=TheValeyard;113037205

Minister has to keep saying exams will keep going or students will just stop putting the effort in.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of the added stress and possible mental health implications?

randylonghorn

Ger Roe wrote: »

Regardless of the added stress and possible mental health implications?

tbh if he announced today they were cancelled, the stress and mental health implications would be just as bad or worse as they went into panic mode as to the implications.

History Queen

Ger Roe wrote: »

Regardless of the added stress and possible mental health implications?

Going by my own students they say they'd be more upset if exams didn't go ahead. They've put so much work in and been building towards them for so long they just want to sit them and move on with their lives. Evenmy less academically inclined students just want to get on with it.

Obviously that's a small sample and not everyone will feel that way but stressis a normal and natural reaction. Dealing with stress is a lifeskill that we should be trying to educate our young people to deal withrather than avoid. (Obviously present situation is particularly stressful for households and not just from an exams point of view). The point I'm trying to make is that just because something may be stressful doesn't necessarily mean it should be called off.

is_that_so

randylonghorn wrote: »

tbh if he announced today they were cancelled, the stress and mental health implications would be just as bad or worse as they went into panic mode as to the implications.

Indeed, my experience of exams at 2nd and 3rd level is that you were in the zone at this point anyway and just wanted to get them started.

km79

I think we can all agree they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t
I think they are genuinely still aiming for June
And all things considered if the situation improves enough to let that happen then the whole country will be in a much better place much sooner than I expect

Anyway that enough school talk for me today
Time to spend time with the young lad
Jurassic world apparently!

VG31

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The minute anyone mentions predicted grades it is a perfect sign they know nothing about the Irish education system. The media coverage about it is embarrassing.

Why were they able to cancel GCSEs/A Levels in Britain and have predicted grading there? I know very little about how the British exam system works but I'd be surprised if it's drastically different.

From reading this page it doesn't sound too dissimilar to here. What is so different with the Irish education system that it can't work here? This is coming from someone who it has no effect on whatsoever, I'm just curious.

Rosita

Ger Roe wrote: »

Just announced on RTE 1 news that De Taoish reckons state exams are still going to happen.

I'd adopt a wait and see approach on this still. They said there were no plans to close the schools and then suddenly one morning they did. The LC has a good chance of going ahead if the will is there but its hard to see how schools could cope with both exams simultaneously.

Fleetwoodmac

TheValeyard wrote: »

How have they missed several weeks of teaching????

Also nearly all teachers are engaged in online classes and teaching to the best of their ability.

As for sixth years the vast majority of work is done and after Easter the focus would probably be revision and exam papers.

Minister has to keep saying exams will keep going or students will just stop putting the effort in.

Yes teachers are teaching to the best of their ability, I can't see how people can dispute that. Nonetheless, this method of learning represents considerable difficulty for many pupils particularly those who have additional needs. It requires initiative and a self directed learning style, which will satisfy those pupils who don't have specific learning needs. It will not and can not replace the role of SEN teachers and SNAs who can modify and adapt the curriculum to individual learning styles. This unprecedented situation is placing these pupils at a considerable disadvantage.

killbillvol2

VG31 wrote: »

Why were they able to cancel GCSEs/A Levels in Britain and have predicted grading there? I know very little about how the British exam system works but I'd be surprised if it's drastically different.

From reading this page it doesn't sound too dissimilar to here. What is so different with the Irish education system that it can't work here? This is coming from someone who it has no effect on whatsoever, I'm just curious.

Their system is completely different. In the UK predicted grades are used already as part of the third level application process. Therefore the kids knew in advance that they would be receiving a predicted grade before they sat their exams. It's then up to them to match it or beat it. They knew their work was being assessed with a predicted grade in mind.

Here, students were/are preparing for a final exam knowing that the written part is down to their performance on the day. It doesn't matter how they did in their mocks. As another poster said, some kids don't prioritise the mocks (I pretty much ignored them in school) so they shouldn't suddenly be judged on them.