Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

randylonghorn

Shn99 wrote: »

Comparing Zoom and voice over, id prefer voice over any day

I think you're right, for the reasons you and others have cited above.

Some managers can't stop managing even when things are working well.

Tell them your camera's faulty Jay.

End of.

jimmytwotimes 2013

If one student gets virus during exams, then that centre and all their contacts would have to self-isolate.

If a student has a vulnerable family member, imagine the anxiety they'd feel going to school to do an exam.

All staff would be needed to spread just the Leaving Certs safely in a school, how many people would be on standby to replace staff who become ill.

Rural students may need buses to get to school.

In DEIS schools, students would need to be fed, that brings catering staff into the equation.

All toilet facilities are shared, how are we going to wash all surfaces down to ensure the virus doesn't spread?

I don't think people are thinking this through at all when it comes to the logistics.

The stress on exam students must be awful right now as the exams apparently loom.

If they even bumped them to September, at least students could refocus and arrange study to peak then, not peak in June only for it to be cancelled at late notice.

This doesn't even bring into the equation how responsibly students would observe the social distancing guidelines. Some were fantastic before schools were closed, in covering their cough, not touching face etc, but others displayed very poor awareness of basic hygiene.

This is far from straightforward, has so many moving parts and all while we're still trying to flatten the curve.

Bobtheman

jayo76 wrote: »

Quick question how many teachers here are doing video/zoom classes for students? There has been a growing pressure in emails from management in our school this week for teachers to move from Microsoft Groups/teams contact to beginning video classes.

I am not in favour of it I have to say and feel I am doing more than enough through my emails/ detailed voiced over powerpoints and shared resources to allow and facilitate my students continue their learning. I have started to feel however as more teachers in our school move to zoom that maybe Im not doing enough

Zoom not secure. End of story. But your average teacher not great on taking a stand.. I'm sure once your image and video are all over the internet then free counseling will be available

Bobtheman

From the state that brought you the HSE comes LC 2020.
From the state that brought you a 400 million estimated children's hospital comes LC 2020.
From the state that allowed thousands to Cheltenham comes LC 2020

I'm telling you folks no way Hosea.
This summer perhaps but not June.

JDMC2

I don't think people are thinking this through at all when it comes to the logistics.

People are just speculating here. Thankfully, there are people in high places, with lots of experience in this field, doing the thinking and decision making for us!

jimbobaloobob

The Covid19 emergency payment for workers is for 12 weeks I wonder is that an estimated timeline for a return to a level of normality, if so does that leave much time for a return of schools?

khalessi

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

The Covid19 emergency payment for workers is for 12 weeks I wonder is that an estimated timeline for a return to a level of normality, if so does that leave much time for a return of schools?

Could be just to give them breathing space while they figure out what way this is going to go.

KildareP

Bobtheman wrote: »

Zoom not secure. End of story. But your average teacher not great on taking a stand.. I'm sure once your image and video are all over the internet then free counseling will be available

The privacy concern is primarily that Zoom servers can decrypt the conference if you use the cloud recording feature. Which I suspect many don't because it is a paid-for feature.

If using Zoom, your rule with kids present is NO video - none. Audio and screenshare/whiteboard only. Same with offline recorded video - screens and solutions only, no faces. All student mics muted by default - they can use the Chat or Raise Hand if they need to ask a question. That way nobody is visible and nobody can make you the next meme.

You have far more risk of your privacy being exposed if you use Whatsapp, have a Facebook account, TikTok, Instagram, or any number of "social" media services to be honest.

Danzy

Whatever else happens, Schools and Colleges will not open for months yet.

September at the earliest.

Rosita

Gerry T wrote: »

What do you expect him to say on the run up to an election. We're screwed, no point in voting for us. Would that have been better.

I don't expect him to say anything else. That's the whole point I was making. In the same way now that I don't expect him to say anything other than the exams will happen. It's precisely because I don't expect him to say anything else that it's meaningless.

Rosita

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

The Covid19 emergency payment for workers is for 12 weeks I wonder is that an estimated timeline for a return to a level of normality, if so does that leave much time for a return of schools?

They have also given six months' grace on driving licences and NCTs which are out of date which are interesting hints at what they really think might be the actual duration of this issue.

Jim Gazebo

I think most colleges by now have announced they are not reopening and are conducting online assessment where possible. If not possible you just have to wait ...

Enright

Does anyone see a situation where the LC is cancelled and Universities bring back the Matric?

Held over two days, fewer subjects, it would allow students to progress to college

Bobtheman

Enright wrote: »

Does anyone see a situation where the LC is cancelled and Universities bring back the Matric?

Held over two days, fewer subjects, it would allow students to progress to college

No . The matrix was combined with the LC.
The leaving cert has to be held or some sort of assessment that is fair and practical. The matric is gone too long. We send more kids to college than Germany . It was an exam from an era where most didn't go to college.

km79

At the very start of this I mentioned GDPR concerns ........seems like that doesn’t exist anymore alright
Also getting nudged more than gently towards video conferencing. Will be unable to go it anyway due to Three Mobile broadband being bad at the best of times but since corona it has nosedived completely
One point on video conferencing. This may depend on which software you use but.......the teacher to be fully sure has to be the last to disconnect in case there is any messing etc after . So if one student forgets to disconnect .........
Anyway it’s a non runner and stacked with risk for the TEACHER imo . A lot of schools will not have strong enough policies around this to protect the teacher .
If something were to happen you can be sure GDPR will soon be remembered

Treppen

I think the fact that Leo was over-stressing the JC probably gives the game away, as in, the JC won't go ahead.

loyatemu

Bobtheman wrote: »

From the state that brought you the HSE comes LC 2020.
From the state that brought you a 400 million estimated children's hospital comes LC 2020.
From the state that allowed thousands to Cheltenham comes LC 2020

I'm telling you folks no way Hosea.

that's just Hose-A's opinion, what does Hose-B think?

RealJohn

People seem to be forgetting that the leaving cert is not just a college entrance exam. I’m not a guidance teacher, so I’m not sure what exactly it applies to, but don’t you need a leaving cert to get into the Gardaí? And the Defence Forces? And FÁS courses (or whatever they’re called now)? It’s all well and good to say they can make this year’s leaving certs exempt, but what about when the ones who are happy working in a supermarket for now, but then decide they want to join the Gardaí in five years time? Are they going to be exempt for life?

Rosita wrote: »

They have also given six months' grace on driving licences and NCTs which are out of date which are interesting hints at what they really think might be the actual duration of this issue.

Or they know that there can be quite a backlog of those anyway, and there will be twice as many, or more, due by the time we get out of this, so it makes sense to allow extra time to clear the inevitable backlog.

TheValeyard

Bobtheman wrote: »

Zoom not secure. End of story. But your average teacher not great on taking a stand.. I'm sure once your image and video are all over the internet then free counseling will be available

No teacher or student should use Zoom. It is an absolute minefield.

Check out this info from Tom's Guide & Tom's Hardware. These guys usually have things right. And are very concerned about Zoom.

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/zoom-security-privacy-woes

Danzy

Enright wrote: »

Does anyone see a situation where the LC is cancelled and Universities bring back the Matric?

Held over two days, fewer subjects, it would allow students to progress to college

No, it's still a gathering.

Leaving cert in Septembeor later, college start in the spring?

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

They have also given six months' grace on driving licences and NCTs which are out of date which are interesting hints at what they really think might be the actual duration of this issue.

I think though that it's easier to give 6 months grace now, rather than 2 months and then in 2 months have to review and extend by another month etc. Also if no NCTs are taking place there is going to be a massive backlog of cars that need an NCT (on top of those waiting to have a complete test due to the lack of lifts) as well as those that are naturally due their NCT when normal life resumes. So it's easier to grant a longer time period which should cover the lockdown and subsequent backlog.

RealJohn

Treppen wrote: »

I think the fact that Leo was over-stressing the JC probably gives the game away, as in, the JC won't go ahead.

I’m not sure there’s much logic to this either. It might not go ahead, but Leo emphasising that it will is no indication either way. You could just as easily say that he emphasised it because people are assuming it won’t go ahead and he want to make sure students know that it will.

I have no time for Leo, and I don’t believe for a second that he’s an honest man, but that doesn’t mean I have to look for dishonesty in everything he says. Sometimes liars are telling the truth. Or at least think they are.

Rosita

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I think though that it's easier to give 6 months grace now, rather than 2 months and then in 2 months have to review and extend by another month etc. Also if no NCTs are taking place there is going to be a massive backlog of cars that need an NCT (on top of those waiting to have a complete test due to the lack of lifts) as well as those that are naturally due their NCT when normal life resumes. So it's easier to grant a longer time period which should cover the lockdown and subsequent backlog.

Of course there'll be a backlog. I just think it's telling that they are allowing a whole six months on driving licences (news which will keep people happy) when schools are supposed to be going back on 20th April (news which is more difficult to deal with) as things stand.

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

Of course there'll be a backlog. I just think it's telling that they are allowing a whole six months on driving licences (news which will keep people happy) when schools are supposed to be going back on 20th April (news which is more difficult to deal with) as things stand.

But we know pretty much that we aren't going back on the 20th. The peak is expected mid April. No chance we are re-opening. You can't tell a country they are on lockdown for 2 months, people will go nuts, you extend by a week or two each time, it's far more palatable that way.

Renewing driving licences etc will not be high on the list of priorities when we return to normal. Other work will need to be done first. I don't think the country will be on lockdown for 6 months simply because I don't think Ireland can afford it.

Fleetwoodmac

TheValeyard wrote: »

and what is your proposed solution?

(Not having a go at you, just wondering do you have a solution that could work)

Ah Valeyard I genuinely don't have one. My son's SEN teacher links in everyday and several of the teachers really mindful of his different learning style and are adjusting work accordingly. Nothing can replace that 1:1 and small group instruction, together with the really positive relationships he has with developed with those teachers. I have always appreciated my children's teachers but even more so now. Trying to walk that thin line of getting the work done and maintaining a calm happy home... it's a delicate balance felt up and down the country.
I don't have a solution, and like you, not having a go at anyone.

km79

Danzy wrote: »

No, it's still a gathering.

Leaving cert in Septembeor later, college start in the spring?

Who will correct the papers?
It’s a full time job
And I mean FULL TIME- morning noon and night

RealJohn

km79 wrote: »

Who will correct the papers?
It’s a full time job
And I mean FULL TIME- morning noon and night

This. It’s 26 days, full time. Who’s going to be teaching classes while the examiners are marking? You can’t do both and still do either well.

km79

Happy Easter
https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/guidance-on-continuity-of-schooling.pdf

It’s like they do it on purpose
Nothing major in it though

Certainly points towards no return being imminent after Easter though
And the dept have remembered GDPR is a thing
Also states video conferencing is an OPTION and prerecording lessons is just fine

RealJohn

And yes, the idea of using the mock results is a non-starter.
Many mocks are marked by people with little knowledge of how exams are actually marked.
Some teachers train their students for the mocks, doing questions that are essentially the same as the mock questions.
Some tell them what’s coming up.
Some edit the papers to cut out sections that haven’t been covered yet.
The papers get leaked, because schools don’t all do them at the same time.
Some weaker students or students with SEN get a little extra help, to encourage them.

Frankly, if you have any knowledge of how mocks are run (and how much it varies from school to school, or even from class to class), the idea of using mock results as actual leaving cert results is preposterous.

KildareP

TheValeyard wrote: »

No teacher or student should use Zoom. It is an absolute minefield.

Check out this info from Tom's Guide & Tom's Hardware. These guys usually have things right. And are very concerned about Zoom.

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/zoom-security-privacy-woes

The JMB are looking into WebEx as the online platform for online live class scenarios. So while Zoom's days might only be short-lived, the concept of live online classes appears not to be.

In the meantime to alleviate some of the scare stories:
(1) Zoom bombing - use a password on your meetings (default behaviour of Zoom scheduling process is to set a password anyway)

(2) Windows password stealing - not Zoom specific, same principle on which phishing e-mails work

(3) Windows malware injection - see (2)

(4) iOS profile sharing - fixed
If you already have a Facebook (or Facebook company - Whatsapp, Instagram, Messenger) account well they've got everything on you anyway

(5) Phony end-to-end encryption - it is encrypted between you and Zoom but not within Zoom so that it can record your video on the cloud and also give you the indicators as to who is talking and to auto-switch video (if enabled) to who is talking at any given time.
Unless you use the meeting recording feature (which you must pay for) then there is no permanent record of the contents of your meeting left on Zoom. Also - don't use your webcam. Just don't! Screenshare/whiteboards and audio only. Record locally if you want to distribute or have comeback for misbehaving.

(6) Malware-like behavior on Macs - fixed

(7) A backdoor for Mac malware - fixed

(8) Leaks of email addresses and profile photos - anything at all to do with students should be using your School Office365 or GMail account only. There is absolutely no excuse for you to be using personal accounts, particularly when it comes to communicating with minors.

(9) Sharing of personal data with advertisers - okay, I do have personal reservations on this, but then not enough that I've gone and also closed my Facebook, Whatsapp, Twitter, Instagram, Google accounts, binned my Android phone, refused to move to Windows 10, etc. Also, see (8), so it severely minimises what info they can actually glean anyway.