Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

km79

KildareP wrote: »

The JMB are looking into WebEx as the online platform for online live class scenarios. So while Zoom's days might only be short-lived, the concept of live online classes appears not to be.

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I look forward to them rolling out fibre broadband to my rental home in South Mayo so

unit 1

Simple really, use mocks results for leaving cert. As most students do the mocks the results should be readily available from the schools.

Those who did'nt do the mocks (small numbers) could be assessed by the schools doing a lookback/assessment in each case, with some oversight to ensure fairness.

This might be less than ideal, but lets not forget the mocks were intended to be a leaving cert simulation, and were not influenced by the present situation. You could argue that it is untainted by the present crisis and therefore would be fair to use.

Teach30

km79 wrote: »

I look forward to them rolling out fibre broadband to my rental home in South Mayo so

This is so true, I’m in a similar position
Also what happens if your home isn’t suitable for live classes. I’m Living in a house where my parents child mind and they are wild kids. There’s no stopping them and there’s no way I want students listening in to what’s happening. Total invasion of privacy for students and teachers.

History Queen

unit 1 wrote: »

Simple really, use mocks results for leaving cert. As most students do the mocks the results should be readily available from the schools.

Those who did'nt do the mocks (small numbers) could be assessed by the schools doing a lookback/assessment in each case, with some oversight to ensure fairness.

This might be less than ideal, but lets not forget the mocks were intended to be a leaving cert simulation, and were not influenced by the present situation. You could argue that it is untainted by the present crisis and therefore would be fair to use.

Just not practicable or fair to students for reasons previously outlined by RealJohn.

Rosita

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Renewing driving licences etc will not be high on the list of priorities when we return to normal. Other work will need to be done first

This doesn't make sense. It's not like we have to choose between fixing traffic lights in Galway or doing a university exam in Cork ahead of issuing driving licences in Santry. Its not a question of relative importance or that driving licences can't be issued until all elective surgery is up and running again in public hospitals.

I'm simply saying that the six months grace suggests that there appears to be an expectation that offices such as the driving licence one could be closed for a considerable period of time. That's all I'm saying. Not sure why it's such a contestable point.

Shn99

unit 1 wrote: »

Simple really, use mocks results for leaving cert. As most students do the mocks the results should be readily available from the schools.

Those who did'nt do the mocks (small numbers) could be assessed by the schools doing a lookback/assessment in each case, with some oversight to ensure fairness.

This might be less than ideal, but lets not forget the mocks were intended to be a leaving cert simulation, and were not influenced by the present situation. You could argue that it is untainted by the present crisis and therefore would be fair to use.

I got 282 in my mocks(minimal work). The course im aiming for is 419, which i was willing to put the work in for. Would not be feasible and would cause alot of upset

Hannibal_Smith

Just sent off the last of the school work to the teachers. That's it for the Easter holidays! I don't know who's happier, them or me. :pac:

alroley

unit 1 wrote: »

Simple really, use mocks results for leaving cert. As most students do the mocks the results should be readily available from the schools.

Those who did'nt do the mocks (small numbers) could be assessed by the schools doing a lookback/assessment in each case, with some oversight to ensure fairness.

This might be less than ideal, but lets not forget the mocks were intended to be a leaving cert simulation, and were not influenced by the present situation. You could argue that it is untainted by the present crisis and therefore would be fair to use.

Both my 3rd and 6th year mocks were corrected very badly. I would not be happy with those results being used to decide the futures of my 6th year class.

rainbowtrout

unit 1 wrote: »

Simple really, use mocks results for leaving cert. As most students do the mocks the results should be readily available from the schools.

Those who did'nt do the mocks (small numbers) could be assessed by the schools doing a lookback/assessment in each case, with some oversight to ensure fairness.

This might be less than ideal, but lets not forget the mocks were intended to be a leaving cert simulation, and were not influenced by the present situation. You could argue that it is untainted by the present crisis and therefore would be fair to use.

Untainted? There are only two mock companies and students openly share papers with each other on social media during the mocks run. Once a few schools have done them, you can get pretty much any mock paper through social media. Cheating on mocks is widespread.

You should have a read of post 900, here on the thread to see all the issues with mocks.

Bobtheman

There is a lot of delusional thinking about using the mocks.
They will have to have an exam in some shape or form at some time.
Well done to the department. A month in and finally all their highly paid IT staff Finally decide it's time to set guidelines?! Alternatives. Just before Easter
I will do a few days next week and then log the fxxx off. I was a bit late setting up for personal reasons.

joebloggs32

unit 1 wrote: »

Simple really, use mocks results for leaving cert. As most students do the mocks the results should be readily available from the schools.

Those who did'nt do the mocks (small numbers) could be assessed by the schools doing a lookback/assessment in each case, with some oversight to ensure fairness.

This might be less than ideal, but lets not forget the mocks were intended to be a leaving cert simulation, and were not influenced by the present situation. You could argue that it is untainted by the present crisis and therefore would be fair to use.

Not a hope.
I didn't set a full paper as I had one topic yet to cover.
Secondly I marked as hard as I possibly could. No leeway whatsoever. If a student had say 69% I didn't check back to see if there was something I could re evaluate. I the state exams this would happen.
Thirdly, some students go into these exams already knowing what is coming up either from teacher tips or sharing g information online. They have less of a chance knowing what's coming in a house exam.
There is one standard exam nearly all these students have completed and was state certified; The Junior Cert.
You could apply a points based system to their best six subjects in that exam. Not ideal but fairer than a flawed mock system or house exams.

jimmytwotimes 2013

km79 wrote: »

Happy Easter
https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/guidance-on-continuity-of-schooling.pdf

It’s like they do it on purpose
Nothing major in it though

Certainly points towards no return being imminent after Easter though
And the dept have remembered GDPR is a thing
Also states video conferencing is an OPTION and prerecording lessons is just fine

Be interesting to see how some managers will interpret parts of that. We have a particularly pushy boss so I can see a few ways they'll interpret that to suit their agenda.

khalessi

km79 wrote: »

Happy Easter
https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/guidance-on-continuity-of-schooling.pdf

It’s like they do it on purpose
Nothing major in it though

Certainly points towards no return being imminent after Easter though
And the dept have remembered GDPR is a thing
Also states video conferencing is an OPTION and prerecording lessons is just fine

They so do!!! Thats dated 2nd April and its uploaded today, though normally they wait till closer to 5pm

RealJohn

joebloggs32 wrote: »

There is one standard exam nearly all these students have completed and was state certified; The Junior Cert.
You could apply a points based system to their best six subjects in that exam. Not ideal but fairer than a flawed mock system or house exams.

This is both a terrible idea and also, probably the best idea I’ve heard, in the event that the leaving cert actually was cancelled.
Level playing field, independently marked, state certified, wide range of subjects.
If it wasn’t for the fact that we’ve all had students who did nothing in 1-3rd year and matured in senior cycle to perform really well, I’d almost call it a good solution.
Also, it could be used in future to motivate the students who say “it’s only the junior, so it’s not important” in the future, so that would be a bonus.

Smegging hell

unit 1 wrote: »

Simple really, use mocks results for leaving cert. As most students do the mocks the results should be readily available from the schools.

Those who did'nt do the mocks (small numbers) could be assessed by the schools doing a lookback/assessment in each case, with some oversight to ensure fairness.

This might be less than ideal, but lets not forget the mocks were intended to be a leaving cert simulation, and were not influenced by the present situation. You could argue that it is untainted by the present crisis and therefore would be fair to use.

The marking of the mocks is farmed out to private companies who do an atrocious job. I remember receiving 29% in Ordinary Maths - my teacher marked it up to the high 60%. Whoever had corrected it originally had glaced over it and failed to give me a significant amount of marks for answers I had gotten right! They are simply not rigorous enough to be an ersatz Leaving Cert.

Mardy Bum

There are only two real possibilities and both are problematic. LC exams start in the last two weeks of August provided relative normality returns. Schools start back in October instead of September as marking will be going on. All teachers supervise unpaid to lessen the burden (except those correcting who are paid) on the state as they won't be teaching in September anyway.

Critique that.

The other option is simple. Cancel the LC, leave it up to colleges to decide and forget about predicted grades.

spurious

Speaking as both an SEC Examiner and a Mock examiner, the mocks are not a goer. The papers are rarely to the standard of SEC papers, not to mention tha standard of some of the marking.

Anyone suggesting using the mock results is way off.

The exams could still run, albeit later, with very little outside the box thinking.
There would be extra centres needed to allow for distancing, but that isn't insurmountable.

Worst case scenario, LC exams could start earlier in the morning and JC could run from late afternoon, with two superintendents sharing the work of a centre. There are lots of ways the exams could run, if the will was there. The main thing would be to make sure the examiners' work was finished before any intended opening of schools.

Sure, there would be some issues to iron out, but it would be by no means impossible to do.

Back 'in my day' the colleges didn't start until late October anyway, so it's not like the sky would fall in there either. They could take a day or two off study/holiday weeks and still finish up the same time next year.

There are always ways of doing things if the will is there.

joebloggs32

RealJohn wrote: »

This is both a terrible idea and also, probably the best idea I’ve heard, in the event that the leaving cert actually was cancelled.
Level playing field, independently marked, state certified, wide range of subjects.
If it wasn’t for the fact that we’ve all had students who did nothing in 1-3rd year and matured in senior cycle to perform really well, I’d almost call it a good solution.
Also, it could be used in future to motivate the students who say “it’s only the junior, so it’s not important” in the future, so that would be a bonus.

Yeah, we all know those kids that did SFA for the junior cert and then after doing TY have matured and put in a genuine effort to do their best.
Using JC results I see as an option in a worst case scenario.

mirrorwall14

Does it have to be LC this year either? Work with all the colleges. Maybe entry based off JC and house exam reports plus interviews by the colleges themselves if they like for this year.

All students then also given the option to repeat LC next year for free if they prefer

To be honest though I'd imagine the SEC and department are way ahead of us in terms of contingency planning

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Does it have to be LC this year either? Work with all the colleges. Maybe entry based off JC and house exam reports plus interviews by the colleges themselves if they like for this year.

All students then also given the option to repeat LC next year for free if they prefer

To be honest though I'd imagine the SEC and department are way ahead of us in terms of contingency planning

I would say with interviews you would be losing out on the anonymity and fairness that the LC brings, and there would be a cohort of parents (and we know the type) who would be trying to pull strings in the background to get their Johnny or Mary into Trinity or wherever.

mtoutlemonde

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Does it have to be LC this year either? Work with all the colleges. Maybe entry based off JC and house exam reports plus interviews by the colleges themselves if they like for this year.

All students then also given the option to repeat LC next year for free if they prefer

To be honest though I'd imagine the SEC and department are way ahead of us in terms of contingency planning

And what about the student who doesn't want to go to college/university? College is not for everyone. Should that student get nothing after five/six years in school?

randylonghorn

Plus they're very time- consuming.

At the moment, I think running LC is the best option, even if as spurious says, deferred.

Mocks a non-runner. Predictive grades a non-runner.

Thoughts re JC results interesting, if far from perfect.

Worst case scenario .... 40% accorded to JC results, 60% to shorter LC papers. Say half the normal length of time per paper. Reduces both exam time and correction time significantly.



NB to any students / parents: we are purely speculating on extreme worse case scenarios. Do not adjust your television set

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Bump up every pre result by a grade...
eg. H4 becomes a H3 and so forth.

Obviously, far from ideal but I reckon 80% of students would bite your hand off for such an option in a month’s time.

I don’t really buy into this notion that a large cohort of students are blasé about the pres and then aim to ‘peak’ in June.

As the great Johnny Giles might say ‘you can’t just turn up when you feel like it’.
The students who do well generally have the required mindset fromSeptember on.

In a worst case scenario, I think it’s the best of a bad list of options....it’s certainly better than talking about using JC results!!

Shn99

Our school has instructed all teachers to log out of the online platforms until the 20th. Work given to us by teachers and emails given if we have any urgent questions. Think this is the right approach

km79

Shn99 wrote: »

Our school has instructed all teachers to log out of the online platforms until the 20th. Work given to us by teachers and emails given if we have any urgent questions. Think this is the right approach

Not much point telling teachers to log out of online platforms and then on the other hand saying it’s ok to email them !!!!!!
I’ve logged out of them all as I always do
I gave no work to non exam classes as always
I gave a clear revision plan to exam classes as always .
Course is covered. Nothing will be that urgent during revision that it can’t wait
I think school management have been cheeky there if it came from them

randylonghorn

Yeah, it is ... For students, teachers And parents!

rainbowtrout

Konnor Hissing Pocket wrote: »

Bump up every pre result by a grade...
eg. H4 becomes a H3 and so forth.

Obviously, far from ideal but I reckon 80% of students would bite your hand off for such an option in a month’s time.

I don’t really buy into this notion that a large cohort of students are blasé about the pres and then aim to ‘peak’ in June.

As the great Johnny Giles might say ‘you can’t just turn up when you feel like it’.
The students who do well generally have the required mindset fromSeptember on.

In a worst case scenario, I think it’s the best of a bad list of options....it’s certainly better than talking about using JC results!!

A lot don't do the work for the mocks and then get a rude awakening and then the penny drops and they start working.

Still can't grade based on the mocks, as they are not taken on a level playing field. Some will be marked even though students have not completed the course so have to leave some questions blank, some will have those questions cut out by the teacher, some students will have got the mocks from someone beforehand. Plenty of students fail the mock and go on to get a B in the real thing. Not much use to them coming up a grade.

rainbowtrout

randylonghorn wrote: »

Worst case scenario .... 40% accorded to JC results, 60% to shorter LC papers. Say half the normal length of time per paper. Reduces both exam time and correction time significantly.

My guess would be that all the practicals that were pushed out to mid May will be cancelled and go the same way as the orals and full marks awarded. It might be unpalatable but there is a precedent there now, and it would level the playing field somewhat in terms of language and music students being given an advantage with passing grades in those subjects already achieved or close to achieved.

If they really wanted to level the playing field, they could look at the remaining subjects that don't have a practical component and decide on a percentage or section of a paper that would be awarded full marks so no student is disadvantaged.

E.g. physics, chemistry and biology, and the three business subjects have no practical component. A student sitting a combination of these could be quite disadvantaged if all the practicals end up being awarded full marks and the exams with 100% exam are based on the written paper as normal.

michaelm

Smegging hell wrote: »

The marking of the mocks is farmed out to private companies who do an atrocious job. I remember receiving 29% in Ordinary Maths - my teacher marked it up to the high 60%. Whoever had corrected it originally had glaced over it and failed to give me a significant amount of marks for answers I had gotten right! They are simply not rigorous enough to be an ersatz Leaving Cert.

I totally agree, from my own time in the classroom I can say there is very little correlation between mocks and actual Leaving Cert. I would love to be privy to the possible contingency plans as I believe it is a huge conundrum. Would putting everything back say 3 or 4 months work? Return to school in August, start exams mid September and begin the college year after Halloween?

r93kaey5p2izun

Could students sit 4 papers, 3 to count, with 200 points each. Colleges could indicate which, if any, papers they require for entry to a particular course with guidelines issued to them on being as flexible as possible. Papers would also have some element of choice introduced to allow for unfinished courses. A supplement for each paper explaining the choice options could be be printed rather than a full reprint, and invigilators to ensure students are made aware at beginning of the exam, as happens in the case if errata.