Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

Bobtheman

Mardy Bum wrote: »

There are only two real possibilities and both are problematic. LC exams start in the last two weeks of August provided relative normality returns. Schools start back in October instead of September as marking will be going on. All teachers supervise unpaid to lessen the burden (except those correcting who are paid) on the state as they won't be teaching in September anyway.

Critique that.

The other option is simple. Cancel the LC, leave it up to colleges to decide and forget about predicted grades.

Something like this will happen

jimmytwotimes 2013

Mardy Bum wrote: »

There are only two real possibilities and both are problematic. LC exams start in the last two weeks of August provided relative normality returns. Schools start back in October instead of September as marking will be going on. All teachers supervise unpaid to lessen the burden (except those correcting who are paid) on the state as they won't be teaching in September anyway.

Critique that.

The other option is simple. Cancel the LC, leave it up to colleges to decide and forget about predicted grades.

I would assume Option A, one of the few sensible posts on here in a while

Monumental

Mardy Bum wrote: »

There are only two real possibilities and both are problematic. LC exams start in the last two weeks of August provided relative normality returns. Schools start back in October instead of September as marking will be going on. All teachers supervise unpaid to lessen the burden (except those correcting who are paid) on the state as they won't be teaching in September anyway.

Critique that.

The other option is simple. Cancel the LC, leave it up to colleges to decide and forget about predicted grades.

Will teachers be prepared to help students during June ,July and August or until exams take place . Remember these are kids and young adults ,they are vulnerable and need support

TheValeyard

Monumental wrote: »

Will teachers be prepared to help students during June ,July and August or until exams take place . Remember these are kids and young adults ,they are vulnerable and need support

jimmytwotimes 2013

Monumental wrote: »

Will teachers be prepared to help students during June ,July and August or until exams take place . Remember these are kids and young adults ,they are vulnerable and need support

You gotta switch up the bait or fish stop biting

Postgrad10

Eh they already support students in June , July , and right in to August by acting as readers, scribes, superintendents , and by examining their work.

km79

Monumental wrote: »

Will teachers be prepared to help students during June ,July and August or until exams take place . Remember these are kids and young adults ,they are vulnerable and need support

Are you willing to work your annual leave in whatever job you are in yourself ?

km79

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I would assume Option A, one of the few sensible posts on here in a while

Tuition time for the other year groups would then have to be made up at the other side of the school year........and once June goes it’s forever . The Dept have only been waiting for an opportunity to get teachers to either supervise or correct for free. And work june
They have it now

There is no easy solution imo

Monumental

km79 wrote: »

Are you willing to work your annual leave in whatever job you are in yourself ?

I am not saying they should ,they are entitled to their well deserved holidays ,just wondering if students will have any support if exams dont take place until August

Monumental

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Eh they already support students in June , July , and right in to August by acting as readers, scribes, superintendents , and by examining their work.

Very well paid for work ! .I was asking if students will have support from teachers if exams dont take place until August or will they be left to their own devices from June

Monumental

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Eh they already support students in June , July , and right in to August by acting as readers, scribes, superintendents , and by examining their work.

Very well paid for work ! .I was asking if students will have support from teachers if exams dont take place until August or will they be left to their own devices from June

spurious

Reminder of first post:
It is NOT for

• moaning about teacher's wages
• moaning about teacher's holidays
• moaning about teachers in general
• moaning about having to use our own IT equipment

- I know, along with many other things, teachers should not have to fund these, but we do and it's not going to change before tomorrow, so however valid, that is an argument for another day.

Please keep posts helpful.

khalessi

Just saw a link to this on FB

https://www.rte.ie/culture/2020/0401/1127835-rte-to-screen-shakespeare-classics-for-students/?fbclid=IwAR3otnhneMPv2JJ5FkAlNghvA151Q0M6bkoslPpnsxOktILw516L9ZGsLy0

Shakespeare On RTÉ - The Schedule

Shakespeare - Hamlet 11/04/20 RTÉ2, 11.25 am

Shakespeare - The Tempest 12/04/20 RTÉ2, 10.50 am

Shakespeare - King Lear 18/04/20 RTÉ2, 10.35 am

Shakespeare - A Midsummer Nights Dream - 19/04/20 RTÉ2, 10.35 am

Shakespeare - As You Like It - 25/04/20 RTÉ2, 9.45 am

Shakespeare - Much Ado About Nothing - 26/04/20 RTÉ2, 10.10 am

Shakespeare - Julius Ceasar - 02/05/20 RTÉ2, 10.20 am

Bobtheman

Good article on rte website about anxiety among students.
I agree with the criticism of the by hook or crook statement by the Department. They should have toned it down. We all can go a bit crazy with this but I expected more from them.

mirrorwall14

I was just thinking could they split up the levels and extend the exams.

So cancel junior cert.

Then run Leaving cert core subjects at least but running separate levels. Even just do English, Maths and the Languages if at all possible

So June 5th HL English P1 morning, OL/FL English P1 afternoon, June 6th English P2 HL morning, English P2 OL/FL afternoon etc etc

Adjust the numbers depending on how many take the different levels

English HL is the hardest at around 41k students. If they can manage that one the rest would be easier.

A lot of local arrangements around social distancing would be needed however. Hotel function rooms would be better than classrooms in many cases to allow more space. There’s 8 weeks to organise it so that it would work

Reduces pressure on exam students with a reduced timetable acknowledging that they aren’t in school and would provide a lot more clarity for everyone. And I’d actually believe it might take place as opposed to the current situation

Bobtheman

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I was just thinking could they split up the levels and extend the exams.

So cancel junior cert.

Then run Leaving cert core subjects at least but running separate levels. Even just do English, Maths and the Languages if at all possible

So June 5th HL English P1 morning, OL/FL English P1 afternoon, June 6th English P2 HL morning, English P2 OL/FL afternoon etc etc

Adjust the numbers depending on how many take the different levels

English HL is the hardest at around 41k students. If they can manage that one the rest would be easier.

A lot of local arrangements around social distancing would be needed however. Hotel function rooms would be better than classrooms in many cases to allow more space. There’s 8 weeks to organise it so that it would work

Reduces pressure on exam students with a reduced timetable acknowledging that they aren’t in school and would provide a lot more clarity for everyone. And I’d actually believe it might take place as opposed to the current situation

I think your plan is good but disadvantaged kids need at least 3 weeks in school. I have kids without internet access. Going straight to an exam is unfair to them. Don't get me wrong many of them add to their disadvantage by their behavior and they can't excuse that by saying they come from poor backgrounds. At some stage you got to take responsibility. But they can't be held accountable for lack of Internet access.

Rosita

Bobtheman wrote: »

Good article on rte website about anxiety among students.
I agree with the criticism of the by hook or crook statement by the Department. They should have toned it down. We all can go a bit crazy with this but I expected more from them.

The problem with the 'by hook or by crook' comment is that out of the other side of their mouths the government comments that it will be guided by public health advice. You can't on the one hand declare an absolute determination to pursue a course of action while on the other hand hide behind the public health advice shield.

Contingency plans should assume no great change in social distancing and plan with that in mind. (Presumably this is being done?) In this scenario I still maintain that the LC is doable if the JC superintendents and exam markers are available and brought into play. There are variables of course such as the level of sickness among superintendents and maybe students but a certain amount of that has to be accepted. Presumably people get sick every year.

Rosita

Bobtheman wrote: »

I think your plan is good but disadvantaged kids need at least 3 weeks in school. I have kids without internet access. Going straight to an exam is unfair to them. Don't get me wrong many of them add to their disadvantage by their behavior and they can't excuse that by saying they come from poor backgrounds. At some stage you got to take responsibility. But they can't be held accountable for lack of Internet access.

I'm not sure an exam for 50k odd can be held up for people who are disadvantaged.

km79

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0403/1128434-principals-respond-taoiseach/

Lot of interesting points in this article

WardonGordon

The decision should be based solely on health and safety of students, staff and the public.

There are cases of healthy young people dying from Covid 19. There are many at risk individuals in our younger population too don’t forget!

All talk of effect on colleges , teacher wages, it being unfair to students etc,.
It’s a pandemic!
There will be no conventional way of proceeding without risking the health of those involved.

km79

WardonGordon wrote: »

The decision should be based solely on health and safety of students, staff and the public.

There are cases of healthy young people dying from Covid 19. There are many at risk individuals in our younger population too don’t forget!

All talk of effect on colleges , teacher wages, it being unfair to students etc,.
It’s a pandemic!
There will be no conventional way of proceeding without risking the health of those involved.

I think we will reach a point at start of May where of things have not improved then the focus will have to have shifted to creative solutions to college entry as the exams will have to be cancelled
I am not sure why the govt think we can be so different than the rest of the countries affected who have cancelled their equivalent of the LC

ngunners

km79 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0403/1128434-principals-respond-taoiseach/

Lot of interesting points in this article

Good read, thanks for sharing.

This line made me laugh:

"We have got to get our hands on them first," says one. 

Maybe not the best choice of words, given the circumstances.

Inspector Coptoor

Konnor Hissing Pocket wrote: »

Bump up every pre result by a grade...
eg. H4 becomes a H3 and so forth.

Obviously, far from ideal but I reckon 80% of students would bite your hand off for such an option in a month’s time.

I don’t really buy into this notion that a large cohort of students are blasbout the pres and then aim to ‘peak’ in June.

As the great Johnny Giles might say ‘you can’t just turn up when you feel like it’.
The students who do well generally have the required mindset fromSeptember on.

In a worst case scenario, I think it’s the best of a bad list of options....it’s certainly better than talking about using JC results!!

This is the sort of garbage Ciara Kelly was spouting on Newstalk during the week.

A student who got 81% in the mock had an awful lot of work to do to get to 90% and shouldn’t be just gifted a H1.

What about all the students that actually got H1s in the mocks?
What do they get in terms of a bonus?

As a former SEC examiner, I marked all the mocks in my subjects in our school this year.
The marking was rigorous even if the quality of the paper wasn’t fantastic in sections.

Something like 11 students got H1s out of 75 who took the paper with one student getting almost 100%.

Giving away points like this would make demand for medicine and other courses go even higher with no discernible way of separating students if all the H2 students are being given free H1s.

I feel I could accurately award predicted grades for my students as they have now done 5 mock exams but not everyone is in that situation and predicted grades are a rabbit hole we don’t want to go down, open to bribery, pressure etc

wirelessdude01

Realistically this message being put out by Leo and the likes that the state exams will go ahead 'by hook or by crook' is an exercise in crowd control. Let's say they announce that they aren't happening then the teenagers will down tools, be out mingling with their peers and totally disregarding whatever restrictions are in place. This would probably lead to a surge/increase on the already high number of cases. Bigger numbers of clusters where it is being brought into homes and families by them.

km79

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Realistically this message being put out by Leo and the likes that the state exams will go ahead 'by hook or by crook' is an exercise in crowd control. Let's say they announce that they aren't happening then the teenagers will down tools, be out mingling with their peers and totally disregarding whatever restrictions are in place. This would probably lead to a surge/increase on the already high number of cases. Bigger numbers of clusters where it is being brought into homes and families by them.

There is definitely this one it too to be fair to them
I guess we have to hope and trust that the Dept have a couple of WORKABLE contingencies in place
And that one of them involves no exams taking place and subsequent college entry system

Bobtheman

Rosita wrote: »

I'm not sure an exam for 50k odd can be held up for people who are disadvantaged.

You have a point but if they go ahead they'd want to check with their lawyers. I can see a multiple of possible cases.
We don't have broadband everywhere for a start.
Look I'm checking out of this thread as even the Department don't know at this stage. Don't believe the hook or by crook bull****. Remember politicians on the air telling us we ain't getting a bailout. Just as the Trokia were checking into their hotels.
We won't know for another month. Take care people. Teachers

Treppen

rainbowtrout wrote: »

My guess would be that all the practicals that were pushed out to mid May will be cancelled and go the same way as the orals and full marks awarded. It might be unpalatable but there is a precedent there now, and it would level the playing field somewhat in terms of language and music students being given an advantage with passing grades in those subjects already achieved or close to achieved.

If they really wanted to level the playing field, they could look at the remaining subjects that don't have a practical component and decide on a percentage or section of a paper that would be awarded full marks so no student is disadvantaged.

E.g. physics, chemistry and biology, and the three business subjects have no practical component. A student sitting a combination of these could be quite disadvantaged if all the practicals end up being awarded full marks and the exams with 100% exam are based on the written paper as normal.

If you look at the distribution those 3 subjects always get given the highest % of H1s!

Inspector Coptoor

Treppen wrote: »

If you look at the distribution those 3 subjects always get given the highest % of H1s!

Biology was way down last year to 7.5%.
Chemistry was up around 13.1%.

They are my subjects so don’t know physics off hand

Treppen

km79 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0403/1128434-principals-respond-taoiseach/

Lot of interesting points in this article

The article was a bit all over the place in terms of solid solutions. The main function of it I think is to push for predicted grades. The ####show that that will create would be a journalists dream. It would involve the government backpedaling to show solidarity with all the young people (Leo could tweet that and get some likes), it would also bring in the unions who by all accounts have been frozen out
https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/asti-dismayed-at-lack-of-consultation-on-document/ ... and teachers don't want to give predicted grades for obvious reasons. I can see Joe Duffy salivating now.

Best one was shortening the papers and putting in more choice sounds good (finally get back to old LC maths where no one bothers with probability question :pac: ).

The leaving cert students are stressed. Was it ever any other way.

mirrorwall14

km79 wrote: »

There is definitely this one it too to be fair to them
I guess we have to hope and trust that the Dept have a couple of WORKABLE contingencies in place
And that one of them involves no exams taking place and subsequent college entry system

This is what’s driving me nuts. Clear the air. Just publish what the ‘best case’ and ‘worst case’ are and what the last dates they plan on deciding those are and end the speculation for students

Eg

Schools reopen by May 1st fully then both JC and LC take place in its entirety

Return to school by May 1st for LCs if full exams for them to take place (with creative social distancing using primary school buildings etc). Junior cert cancelled.

Return to school by May 14th for LCs to sit a reduced number of subjects over June (allowing subjects to be separated into HL/OL slots etc as well as creative social distancing)

No return to school of any kind possibly by May 14th exams fully cancelled and colleges to coordinate their own entry systems

Get that published so that all partners, parents, students, teachers, schools, SEC and Colleges can all be prepared