Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

km79

Shn99 wrote: »

Hi all, Haven't read through previous posts so not sure what the general consensus is regarding today's announcement. Not everyone on this thread will agree with me nor is that the aim of this. I cant speak for all 60,000 6th year students but I'll try my best based off the general attitude within the school I attend(200+ 6th yrs).

Todays announcement was gutting. The past few days when there was an announcement looming, there was an air of hope, hope that the announcement would give concrete clarity once and for all. I understand that we are in the middle of a global pandemic, the likes we have never ever seen before, but as a 6th year student the LC is built up to be the biggest thing you've ever done in your life. Todays announcement has made us feel worse rather than better (look at twitter for an example). The pressure students are under in normal circumstances and the implications it has on a teenagers mental health is bad enough in normal circumstances let alone during a global pandemic. I was sickened when Joe McHugh said on 6 1 news "No students are not alone"...pretty sure we are. We lack the proper contact with friends, teachers, grandparents, other relatives ect ect. I know some of you might think "oh well you can message your teacher ect" its not the same. No one's mental health is good at the moment with this lockdown, when i say no one i'm on about all age groups ect. A Lot of us 6th years just like we have nothing positive to work towards. No graduation, No debs, No LC holiday, No summer jobs, festivals ect. We were all absolutely buzzing for this summer. Yes there is a way bigger picture out there but as a 17/18 year old in 6th year its hard enough to see that. The Leaving Cert is not a necessity, especially in the midst of a pandemic. They gave next to no consideration to the ISSU survey and the petitions that were signed. The fall out from today is alot bigger than in previous weeks.

I may have waffled a lot in that and not all of it makes sense but I just wanted to put it out there. I don't know if teachers on this thread will understand but pls keep it respectful. I feel for the teachers too, It doesn't seem like there was much/any consultation with teachers before this was announced. The departments of education in many other countries gave their students and teachers proper clarity nearly straight away under the same circumstances(COVID-19).

Thank you to all the teachers who have tried their best in facilitating their students online during these times, the Department have let us all down in my opinion

You make a very valid point about summer work
Some families need their child to get those 2 months in before going to college to afford it

johnmc2020

acequion wrote: »

You sound like the type of teacher who claims to be willing to do just anything for your students but couldn't care less about the impact on your collegues, your fellow teachers who you work side to side with.

Every teacher is willing to make sacrifices,every teacher is willing to be as flexible as possible in these exceptional circumstances. But within reason. And imposing the JC exams on schools, teachers and students when we're all trying to pick up the pieces in the next school year, is too much to expect. They were able to cancel something as important as the LC orals, yet they can't write off something as insignificant in the grand scheme of things, as the JC.

It's definitely not too much to expect. It's a few days extra work, it's not going to kill you.

jimmytwotimes 2013

km79 wrote: »

You make a very valid point about summer work
Some families need their child to get those 2 months in before going to college to afford it

I'd imagine there will be very little summer work this year. Tourism is dead this year, pubs and restaurants etc most likely won't be open either.

Rosita

Random sample wrote: »

https://www.examinations.ie/misc-doc/EN-EX-59606118.pdf It’s laid out here, same exam as it would have been.

I’m hoping the AT’s get dropped off it though...

There’s no mention of you will be marking them

Thanks, I actually read that earlier and it doesn’t expressly state it’s the same exam though it’s a fair assumption especially given that assessment tasks are mentioned. It will cause serious chaos in schools regarding timetable for teachers and TY and Fifth Year classes if an exam like the Junior Cert is to be done on school time. Then again if there is social distancing is still in operation when the schools go back they might be the only ones in the place for a few weeks anyway.

rainbowtrout

km79 wrote: »

You make a very valid point about summer work
Some families need their child to get those 2 months in before going to college to afford it

Whether the LC was cancelled or not today, there still will be little or no summer work for students this year. There's 420,000 people on the dole this week.

Greensoup

linguist wrote: »

I've been dipping in and out of this and I have to say we need to calm down a little.

It is being proposed that we would provide two weeks' support to sixth years in advance of their rescheduled exams. During that time, there will be a huge focus on completing the required practical work and coursework write-ups in certain subjects. So a lot of the workload will surely be done there.

Since only the sixth years will be in - which is a fact if you read over what the Minister has said and listen to his interviews - we are probably looking at block classes. This approach would mean that not all staff would need to be be in every day or at least for more than the required contact time. So although the students would have two weeks' contact time, you might have about 7 hours with them (your normal timetable) but concentrated into blocks. Again, I imagine Art, Practical Subjects, Geography etc. will be jumping up and down looking to get their work finished. You won't be stuck in the school from 9-4 for two solid weeks. Just stand back and think about it rationally and give the unions, management bodies and the DES a chance to work something out.

Geography project takes 2-3 weeks of class time to copy into official booklet and can’t see lads writing it up in weeks leading up to exam. My school always wrote it into booklet in the weeks before Easter as the closing date is last Friday of April.... This year was 24th April. For their last weeks in school students want to revise short qs like map work etc or go through topics theyve questions on...not sitting in a room writing project into booklet 2 weeks before exam. Also some lads that were just about sticking with school won’t come in for those 2 weeks in July to write up.

r93kaey5p2izun

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I'd imagine there will be very little summer work this year. Tourism is dead this year, pubs and restaurants etc most likely won't be open either.

Lots of summer work in shops! They are recruiting at an unprecedented level at the moment. And teens are often best placed to take it up. No kids to mind, no elderly parents, low risk for serious illness.

Mardy Bum

km79 wrote: »

You make a very valid point about summer work
Some families need their child to get those 2 months in before going to college to afford it

There wouldn't be work regardless. Unemployment levels will be through the roof. Lots of kids defer for the year regularly because of financial difficulties. It isn't right but it isn't new.

km79

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I'd imagine there will be very little summer work this year. Tourism is dead this year, pubs and restaurants etc most likely won't be open either.

Well in that case neither will schools .........
Supermarkets are very busy
I’d imagine a lot of l cert students will just take the opportunity and go to get work now

Rosita

johnmc2020 wrote: »

It's definitely not too much to expect. It's a few days extra work, it's not going to kill you.

I don’t think the JC in-school is “a few days extra work”. It’s a needless recipe for chaos I’d say. A solution with no real thought as to how practicable it is. I think people are entitled to take issue with it.

km79

https://www.asti.ie/news/asti-responds-to-leaving-cert-anouncement/

Reactive as always

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

Thanks, I actually read that earlier and it doesn’t expressly state it’s the same exam though it’s a fair assumption especially given that assessment tasks are mentioned. It will cause serious chaos in schools regarding timetable for teachers and TY and Fifth Year classes if an exam like the Junior Cert is to be done on school time. Then again if there is social distancing is still in operation when the schools go back they might be the only ones in the place for a few weeks anyway.

It will cause disruption to fifth year classes, it won't cause any disruption to TY as they will all have come from the third year cohort.

The most likely scenarios are as follows:

In a school where TY is compulsory, block the exams for two weeks (or however long they take ) and teachers who would normally be teaching TY would supervise them.

Same scenario in a school where there is no TY, then it is fifth year in its entirety that is affected. Same deal here.

The messiest situation are schools where TY is offered and is not compulsory, so the third year group is split over two year groups. Things will be messy for fifth year for a few weeks as some students will be doing exams and some won't. This would be the case in my school.

Shn99

johnmc2020 wrote: »

It's definitely not too much to expect. It's a few days extra work, it's not going to kill you.

Is this LC2020 back again?

Millem

Rosita wrote: »

I don’t think the JC in-school is “a few days extra work”. It’s a needless recipe for chaos I’d say. A solution with no real thought as to how practicable it is. I think people are entitled to take issue with it.

Will it work like the mocks......so every year is in.....you teach your normal timetable and supervise slots when you would have 3rd years?

Or will it delay the reopening of the school in September?

rainbowtrout

Susan Quiet Stool wrote: »

Lots of summer work in shops! They are recruiting at an unprecedented level at the moment. And teens are often best placed to take it up. No kids to mind, no elderly parents, low risk for serious illness.

Usually to cover staff who are going on holidays, which by and large won't be happening this year, because there'll be nowhere to go and lots of people will be broke.

km79

Millem wrote: »

Will it work like the mocks......so every year is in.....you teach your normal timetable and supervise slots when you would have 3rd years?

Or will it delay the reopening of the school in September?

But you won’t have those 3rd years on your timetable anymore
Or will you
As they will Surely be looking for “classroom tuition time “ to be “made up “ same as the leaving certs
An unholy mess

r93kaey5p2izun

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Usually to cover staff who are going on holidays, which by and large won't be happening this year, because there'll be nowhere to go and lots of people will be broke.

No. They are currently recruiting at an unprecedented level because of coronavirus. Way beyond normal summer cover. They can't keep up with restocking, cleaning, enforcing social distancing, deliveries without lots of new staff. All teens I know have picked up jobs in the past fortnight. Local shops all crying out for applicants.

Rosita

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It will cause disruption to fifth year classes, it won't cause any disruption to TY as they will all have come from the third year cohort.

.

It’ll disrupt it because there literally will be no TY activity for the duration. In my school there’s a bonding trip and several other activities organized while the weather is decent in September. And that’s leaving aside the fact that TY classes were not even formed when the schools closed so that’s another task that will probably have to wait.

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

Will it work like the mocks......so every year is in.....you teach your normal timetable and supervise slots when you would have 3rd years?

Or will it delay the reopening of the school in September?

It would make sense to delay the opening of the schools in September by about 2 weeks. It would allow LC exams to be marked properly and not be a rush job. Teachers who aren't marking could supervise the JC exams in their schools. If the SEC/Dept would like this JC exam to have some integrity and are going to distribute the JC papers to schools it would make most sense to have schools work to the same exam timetable, otherwise it'll end up like the mocks with exam papers appearing online after the exam.

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

It’ll disrupt it because there literally will be no TY activity for the duration. In my school there’s a bonding trip and several other activities organized while the weather is decent in September. And that’s leaving aside the fact that TY classes were not even formed when the schools closed so that’s another task that will probably have to wait.

I think in the greater scheme of things, that's not the end of the world. A bonding trip can still happen in late September and the nature of the trip different to accommodate changing weather. Weather is never guaranteed anyway.

It's not that hard to divide a list of students into classes, that can be done on VS Ware without having to be in the school.

Millem

km79 wrote: »

But you won’t have those 3rd years on your timetable anymore
Or will you
As they will Surely be looking for “classroom tuition time “ to be “made up “ same as the leaving certs
An unholy mess

Oh gosh yes you are right! The 3rd years will be in TY. So maybe it is if you are timetabled for TY you go and supervise the exams.
Sorry pregnancy brain!!!!

Rosita

Millem wrote: »

Will it work like the mocks......so every year is in.....you teach your normal timetable and supervise slots when you would have 3rd years?

?

But when I’d have Third Years I’d be teaching them - the new Third Years. You could say change to TY and supervise when you have them, but they are timetabled differently. You might have the bones of a solution though.

km79

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It would make sense to delay the opening of the schools in September by about 2 weeks. It would allow LC exams to be marked properly and not be a rush job. Teachers who aren't marking could supervise the JC exams in their schools. If the SEC/Dept would like this JC exam to have some integrity and are going to distribute the JC papers to schools it would make most sense to have schools work to the same exam timetable, otherwise it'll end up like the mocks with exam papers appearing online after the exam.

This years 5th years are the ones who are being really hard done by in that situation
The JC just needs to be cancelled and we accomodate LC and move on without disrupting next years Leaving Certs further

Rosita

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I think in the greater scheme of things, that's not the end of the world. A bonding trip can still happen in late September and the nature of the trip different to accommodate changing weather. Weather is never guaranteed anyway.

It's not that hard to divide a list of students into classes, that can be done on VS Ware without having to be in the school.

Funny you mention the weather because even though it’s the first week in September it is always guaranteed to be raining when they go!

Dividing classes is easy alright but it’s a little more complex. Interviewing students and then getting feedback from teachers to avoid unsuitable class groups/combinations being put together normally takes several weeks when the school is busy.

mirrorwall14

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It will cause disruption to fifth year classes, it won't cause any disruption to TY as they will all have come from the third year cohort.

The most likely scenarios are as follows:

In a school where TY is compulsory, block the exams for two weeks (or however long they take ) and teachers who would normally be teaching TY would supervise them.

Same scenario in a school where there is no TY, then it is fifth year in its entirety that is affected. Same deal here.

The messiest situation are schools where TY is offered and is not compulsory, so the third year group is split over two year groups. Things will be messy for fifth year for a few weeks as some students will be doing exams and some won't. This would be the case in my school.

My school too. We'll have about 90 in TY and 50-60 gone through to Fifth year. And I'm not scheduled for TY or 5th year maths, only music. And am not due to have any third years next year. A total mess in our case.

Blocking the exams would be best but then they get no preparation and parents/students would likely kick up a riot.

Honestly I'm ok in principle with the LC proposal. Yes its painful and there's a lot of ironing out to do. Personally its a pain in the neck due to zero childcare options in July assuming cocooning still going. Even if creche is back open my other lad doesn't have it in summer. And its definitely not ideal for project work, study, mental health reasons etc etc. But assuming things improve enough that it is not going to get cancelled last minute its probably the best of a bad lot of solutions.

However the more I think about it the more the JC proposal is pissing me off. Why disrupt the next school year as well as this one for a now low stakes exam? Why? Its madness. It will disrupt the busiest time of the year. Causes absolute chaos for timetables. Disrupts 5th years from starting their new LC syllabi in particular for an exam that no longer will have any integrity at a national level if we are correcting in house to our own schedule. And worse again if they disrupt every other year group by closing the schools to hold the exams-that would be even worse! (unless there is still social distancing and we can't open obviously)

Millem

Rosita wrote: »

But when I’d have Third Years I’d be teaching them - the new Third Years. You could say change to TY and supervise when you have them, but they are timetabled differently. You might have the bones of a solution though.

Oh I get you, like say in some schools TY’s might have a half day for work experience etc....well maybe they use s and s or maybe they will have to pay subs (if they can get them) for a flew slots?

C__MC

Like do current third years get a two week teaching block in September ahead of exams?

Its absolutely crazy by the SEC that they expect 14/15 years olds to hibernate now for 5 months, roll into school in September and complete exams

Makes a mockery of the much maligned JC

TTLF

km79 wrote: »

This years 5th years are the ones who are being really hard done by in that situation
The JC just needs to be cancelled and we accomodate LC and move on without disrupting next years Leaving Certs further

As a 5th year, I guess I have to agree?
We haven't finished our course work, and since "online school" we've basically been doing revision because we missed a proper week (due to the switchover from school to online.)

I have no idea how the LC will work for us considering we're already behind on the course work in 5th year. not sure how it'll go at all, but I suppose we have to take it upon ourselves to work and hand in our homeschool assignments, I just know for certain we aren't being "tested" on our knowledge, and it's basically just doing homework during the day.

It's a weird way to describe it, but what I'm getting at is, we're learning significantly less than we should be (like most other years) but 5th/6th are at a REAL disadvantage.

Also just a question, what's up with people thinking
"Do we just stop teaching after easter if we're resuming in July"

Where was it said that schools were going to return in July? Surely that wouldn't make sense.
Correct me if I got that wrong btw I just didn't understand.

km79

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

My school too. We'll have about 90 in TY and 50-60 gone through to Fifth year. And I'm not scheduled for TY or 5th year maths, only music. And am not due to have any third years next year. A total mess in our case.

Blocking the exams would be best but then they get no preparation and parents/students would likely kick up a riot.

Honestly I'm ok in principle with the LC proposal. Yes its painful and there's a lot of ironing out to do. Personally its a pain in the neck due to zero childcare options in July assuming cocooning still going. Even if creche is back open my other lad doesn't have it in summer. And its definitely not ideal for project work, study, mental health reasons etc etc. But assuming things improve enough that it is not going to get cancelled last minute its probably the best of a bad lot of solutions.

However the more I think about it the more the JC proposal is pissing me off. Why disrupt the next school year as well as this one for a now low stakes exam? Why? Its madness. It will disrupt the busiest time of the year. Causes absolute chaos for timetables. Disrupts 5th years from starting their new LC syllabi in particular for an exam that no longer will have any integrity at a national level if we are correcting in house to our own schedule. And worse again if they disrupt every other year group by closing the schools to hold the exams-that would be even worse! (unless there is still social distancing and we can't open obviously)

Again maybe I am giving them too much credit but maybe that’s their plan
Get everyone to accept working in July as long as the Unworkable JC plan doesnt go ahead

History Queen

I just had a thought.... the JC was presumably cancelled to allow for social distancing etc for the Leaving Certs. The Leaving Cert that will take place in July or August. And just a month (or maybe weeks) later schools can open with a fulll cohort of students and no social distancing? Is that not hard to imagine? Maybe someone has mentioned this already, I've only glanced through the thread.

I realise I am possibly missing something here or maybe over-analysing, can someone please tell me what I'm overlooking?