Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

combat14

it is still early days.. no guarantees yet even for July or august

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52248516

second september strain of Spanish flu was far deadlier than the first .. we still dont know what we are potentially dealing with

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

But when I’d have Third Years I’d be teaching them - the new Third Years. You could say change to TY and supervise when you have them, but they are timetabled differently. You might have the bones of a solution though.

You don't need to be supervising the group just because you taught them for third year. It would be better not to be, to discourage students trying to ask questions.

Whoever is supposed to be teaching TY would supervise for that slot.

km79

History Queen wrote: »

I just had a thought.... the JC was presumably cancelled to allow for social distancing etc for the Leaving Certs. The Leaving Cert that will take place in July or August. And just a month (or maybe weeks) later schools can open with a fulll cohort of students and no social distancing? Is that not hard to imagine? Maybe someone has mentioned this already, I've only glanced through the thread.

I realise I am possibly missing something here or maybe over-analysing, can someone please tell me what I'm overlooking?

Nope that’s the gist of the govts plan

rainbowtrout

TTLF wrote: »

As a 5th year, I guess I have to agree?
We haven't finished our course work, and since "online school" we've basically been doing revision because we missed a proper week (due to the switchover from school to online.)

I have no idea how the LC will work for us considering we're already behind on the course work in 5th year. not sure how it'll go at all, but I suppose we have to take it upon ourselves to work and hand in our homeschool assignments, I just know for certain we aren't being "tested" on our knowledge, and it's basically just doing homework during the day.

It's a weird way to describe it, but what I'm getting at is, we're learning significantly less than we should be (like most other years) but 5th/6th are at a REAL disadvantage.

Also just a question, what's up with people thinking
"Do we just stop teaching after easter if we're resuming in July"

Where was it said that schools were going to return in July? Surely that wouldn't make sense.
Correct me if I got that wrong btw I just didn't understand.

In the announcement today, Joe McHugh said that students sitting LC in July/August would be brought back into school for classes/preparation/practical exams for two weeks beforehand. That means teachers of LC students will also be back in teaching.

km79

As well as the 500 new cases announced today 1000 extra from German tests have been added
This is not going away anytime soon

Let’s hope (and I do not for one minute think they are at this point in time ) they are working on a contingency where the LC has to be cancelled

rainbowtrout

History Queen wrote: »

I just had a thought.... the JC was presumably cancelled to allow for social distancing etc for the Leaving Certs. The Leaving Cert that will take place in July or August. And just a month (or maybe weeks) later schools can open with a fulll cohort of students and no social distancing? Is that not hard to imagine? Maybe someone has mentioned this already, I've only glanced through the thread.

I realise I am possibly missing something here or maybe over-analysing, can someone please tell me what I'm overlooking?

Personally I'm taking it as today's announcement ensured that the LC could go ahead and provision has been made for that. As was widely expected the JC has been cancelled only they haven't used the word cancelled as there will still be some form of assessment.

They're future proofing the LC arrangements. If things have calmed down by July then the LC will take place in a relatively normal set up, if restrictions are still in place and they had allowed JC to take place then they would have to row back on that decision again and cancel it. I think today's decision allows for the LC to go ahead whatever the next couple of months brings.

There is a lot of doom and gloom in the news every day, and very little positivity. China did get the virus back under control in Wuhan in 10 weeks (granted their methods are a little more extreme than the average western country), and the numbers of new cases in Spain and Italy have been falling for the last week. They have a long way to go, but they have a much higher peak to fall from. There's no reason that the restrictions that are in place here won't work. If the reproductive number is clearly brought down to less than 1, then there will be more recoveries than new cases and the virus will decline.

Rosita

History Queen wrote: »

I just had a thought.... the JC was presumably cancelled to allow for social distancing etc for the Leaving Certs. The Leaving Cert that will take place in July or August. And just a month (or maybe weeks) later schools can open with a fulll cohort of students and no social distancing? Is that not hard to imagine? Maybe someone has mentioned this already, I've only glanced through the thread.

I realise I am possibly missing something here or maybe over-analysing, can someone please tell me what I'm overlooking?

You are missing the fact that the JC has not been cancelled just moved into the following school year. I suspect your idea that social distancing will not feature in September is too optimistic. I’d say it’ll possibly feature to an extent for the entire coming school year.

kala85

How they couldn't stop it coming into the country and banning travel to Italy I'll never understand.

People still flying in to Dublin Airport unscreened

rainbowtrout

km79 wrote: »

As well as the 500 new cases announced today 1000 extra from German tests have been added
This is not going away anytime soon

Let’s hope (and I do not for one minute think they are at this point in time ) they are working on a contingency where the LC has to be cancelled

Those tests were part of the backlog though. They do add to the overall numbers of course, but if we had the testing capacity here for the last 2-3 weeks, we would have seen higher daily numbers of maybe 80 per day on average to include all those positive results. The peak was predicted for mid April so it's not too surprising. I would expect to start seeing a decline by early May, roughly when the next lockdown date expires.

History Queen

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Personally I'm taking it as today's announcement ensured that the LC could go ahead and provision has been made for that. As was widely expected the JC has been cancelled only they haven't used the word cancelled as there will still be some form of assessment.

They're future proofing the LC arrangements. If things have calmed down by July then the LC will take place in a relatively normal set up, if restrictions are still in place and they had allowed JC to take place then they would have to row back on that decision again and cancel it. I think today's decision allows for the LC to go ahead whatever the next couple of months brings.

Ah ok, that's a different perspective on things. I'd say your outlook makes more sense than mine! I was looking at it too simply instead of looking at the nuance of the situation. Thanks for that.

mirrorwall14

km79 wrote: »

Again maybe I am giving them too much credit but maybe that’s their plan
Get everyone to accept working in July as long as the Unworkable JC plan doesnt go ahead

Funnily enough that was one of the first things I said to my husband after the announcement. They want to keep 3rd years working for last term and get us in July. So announce in June it has been decided it would be too disruptive to all other year groups to run it in September and the unfortunate decision has to be to cancel it.... TBH I'd kinda be ok with that as opposed to the alternative :eek::D

Mardy Bum

No mention of CBA 1. The idea of doing an oral presentation online should not be considered by any school although some will.

History Queen

Rosita wrote: »

You are missing the fact that the JC has not been cancelled just moved into the following school year. I suspect your idea that social distancing will not feature in September is too optimistic. I’d say it’ll possibly feature to an extent for the entire coming school year.

I actually think I was looking at this the wrong way anyway as I've just admitted in my latest post. And when I said JC cancelled I meant as a state exam, I should have been clearer.

As regards social distancing in school it's not that I don't think it'll be needed it's just that I don't know how it'll work.My own classroom is too small as is for the classes I have and social areas in our school are already very crowded (we are awaiting a long promised new school).

We could drive ourselves mad speculating I guess, but at the end of the day no one could possibly know how this will pan out. Unprecedented times and all that.

Rosita

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There's no reason that the restrictions that are in place here won't work. If the reproductive number is clearly brought down to less than 1, then there will be more recoveries than new cases and the virus will decline.

Yes, but it should be borne in mind that any success Ireland achieves will have been achieved through extreme social distancing, people staying indoors, and society and the economy essentially put into suspended animation. To maintain that without a vaccine will likely require extraordinary measures. That might have significant repercussions for a school setting. Many in this country seem to think that if numbers come down all will go back to normal very quickly. Reading between the lines of what the medical experts say we might be in for a bit of a shock on that. The numbers don’t have a life of their own but instead simply reflect behaviour. If that changes there’s a big risk to the numbers.

khalessi

Rosita wrote: »

Yes, but it should be borne in mind that any success Ireland achieves will have been achieved through extreme social distancing, people staying indoors, and society and the economy essentially put into suspended animation. To maintain that without a vaccine will likely require extraordinary measures. That might have significant repercussions for a school setting. Many in this country seem to think that if numbers come down all will go back to normal very quickly. Reading between the lines of what the medical experts say we might be in for a bit of a shock on that.

THey will have to keep relaxing and restrict distancing until vaccine found, could affect next year too

randylonghorn

Essentially, full "normality" will not resume until we have a vaccine (12+ months optimistically) or at least an effective treatment.

It is the process / timeline of how we go from where we are now to then that will be very difficult, and require really careful balancing.

Rosita

History Queen wrote: »

I actually think I was looking at this the wrong way anyway as I've just admitted in my latest post. And when I said JC cancelled I meant as a state exam, I should have been clearer.

As regards social distancing in school it's not that I don't think it'll be needed it's just that I don't know how it'll work.My own classroom is too small as is for the classes I have and social areas in our school are already very crowded (we are awaiting a long promised new school).

We could drive ourselves mad speculating I guess, but at the end of the day no one could possibly know how this will pan out. Unprecedented times and all that.

I’d say it’d require some classes only in on certain days and maybe some kind of continuation of on-line classes. Or maybe longer classes in the days they are in with only big classrooms used or classes broken up a bit more into smaller groups. A lot depends on the school. Mine would be like yours in that regard with little space to play with.

km79

Rosita wrote: »

I’d say it’d require some classes only in on certain days and maybe some kind of continuation of on-line classes. Or maybe longer classes in the days they are in with only big classrooms used or classes broken up a bit more into smaller groups. A lot depends on the school. Mine would be like yours in that regard with little space to play with.

“Classroom tuition “

km79

Would the mods save us from ourselves and lock the thread until after the bank holiday ??????

spurious

randylonghorn wrote: »

Essentially, full "normality" will not resume until we have a vaccine (12+ months optimistically) or at least an effective treatment.

It is the process / timeline of how we go from where we are now to then that will be very difficult, and require really careful balancing.

Making sure NOT to set any precedents, as we know they will be used against us.

Newdawn11

I just don’t understand. Is it being assumed that all Leaving Cert teachers have to be available on
July regardless of other plans, holidays, childcare difficulties etc even though they have been working remotely the entire time of closure? (With no consultation whatsoever).

What about those not available? What about teachers who do t have LC classes-is it just LC teachers who are expected to do this?

What about stressed Lc students now stressed till
Aug?

More questions than answers today?

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Funnily enough that was one of the first things I said to my husband after the announcement. They want to keep 3rd years working for last term and get us in July. So announce in June it has been decided it would be too disruptive to all other year groups to run it in September and the unfortunate decision has to be to cancel it.... TBH I'd kinda be ok with that as opposed to the alternative :eek::D

To be honest, we could all sit here with tinfoil hats on and consider various conspiracy theories on what the government are trying to get us to do. It could simply be get the exams across the line in the fairest possible way.

I wonder what the discussion would have been here on the thread tonight if the JC was cancelled outright without any form of proposed assessment? Would we have been saying things like:

• Not fair on students, nothing to show for three years work
• What about early school leavers, at least this gave them state certification for the work they have done.
• The Dept have wanted to get rid of the JC for years, now they've used corona virus to do so, this is the end, we'll all be wondering why we didn't insist on it going ahead.

To be fair, anyone who has worked as an examiner with the SEC will know that they run a pretty tight ship and I honestly don't think they are going to make announcements about state exams and keep chopping and changing for the craic just to keep everyone on their toes as such.

Most of the discussion in the media is about the Leaving Cert and rightly so, but it's still a pretty big deal to cancel a state exam that students have worked towards for three years, even if its perceived value is considered to be quite low.

khalessi

Another point about postponing, what about the kids who work the summer to afford college. They cant nnow as they will be studying and in class.

jrmb

khalessi wrote: »

Another point about postponing, what about the kids who work the summer to afford college. They cant nnow as they will be studying and in class.

That's going to be an issue with many layers, considering that seasonal jobs in hospitality and similar fields are going to be hard to come by.

km79

rainbowtrout wrote: »

To be honest, we could all sit here with tinfoil hats on and consider various conspiracy theories on what the government are trying to get us to do. It could simply be get the exams across the line in the fairest possible way.

I wonder what the discussion would have been here on the thread tonight if the JC was cancelled outright without any form of proposed assessment? Would we have been saying things like:

• Not fair on students, nothing to show for three years work
• What about early school leavers, at least this gave them state certification for the work they have done.
• The Dept have wanted to get rid of the JC for years, now they've used corona virus to do so, this is the end, we'll all be wondering why we didn't insist on it going ahead.

To be fair, anyone who has worked as an examiner with the SEC will know that they run a pretty tight ship and I honestly don't think they are going to make announcements about state exams and keep chopping and changing for the craic just to keep everyone on their toes as such.

Most of the discussion in the media is about the Leaving Cert and rightly so, but it's still a pretty big deal to cancel a state exam that students have worked towards for three years, even if its perceived value is considered to be quite low.

The JC is a completely different kettle of fish as well you know
And
They do have something to show
They have the JCPA which reflects all the wonderful things they did and achieved during their 3 years

The SEC won’t be standing over the September JC
So what’s the point of it ?
I can predict the results of the whole year group in almost every single subject right now
Single digit number of students getting distinctions
Everyone else getting either Merits or Higher Merits
Maybe the odd Achieved or whatever it is called !

randylonghorn

spurious wrote: »

Making sure NOT to set any precedents, as we know they will be used against us.

I was talking as much about the wider situation as about the reality for schools / teachers, but I take your point!

Treppen

khalessi wrote: »

Another point about postponing, what about the kids who work the summer to afford college. They cant nnow as they will be studying and in class.

So would you propose cancelling instead, and going with predicted grades?

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

Yes, but it should be borne in mind that any success Ireland achieves will have been achieved through extreme social distancing, people staying indoors, and society and the economy essentially put into suspended animation. To maintain that without a vaccine will likely require extraordinary measures. That might have significant repercussions for a school setting. Many in this country seem to think that if numbers come down all will go back to normal very quickly. Reading between the lines of what the medical experts say we might be in for a bit of a shock on that. The numbers don’t have a life of their own but instead simply reflect behaviour. If that changes there’s a big risk to the numbers.

Oh yes, all very true. But if numbers can be brought down to very low infection rates, then there simply won't be enough cases to spark off a situation like currently exists. I don't expect life to go back to normal in July or whenever, but I'm also being realistic in that the country probably cannot afford to remain in lockdown for say 6 months.

I would expect that pockets of the virus will appear and reappear in different parts of the country, and that it will possibly affect certain towns or regions for periods of time, and hopefully not the entire country, but it's also herd immunity in a more palatable (and humane manner).

khalessi

Treppen wrote: »

So would you propose cancelling instead, and going with predicted grades?

NOpe I have said previously what I think, I am just throwing another area affected by this.

As said elsewhere no matter which decison was made it would be the wrong one. This is the solution the DOE hve come up with as the best of a bad lot and so be it.

combat14

so are teachers correcting the "junior cert" in September for free?

will this be an every year thing then?!