Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

Inspector Coptoor

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Now is not the time for this. Given the sacrifices people are making, this is very small.

Those of you paranoid about the Depts aim to get teachers to correct the JC in the years ahead, maybe wait until we get out of this mess and see how it plays out. If it demanded of teachers in the years ahead, protest then.

This time is our generations war, just contribute, don't stand as the group who bitched about it as people died and others lost employment

Please get down off your soap box.

You’re feet are getting splinters.

You’ve no idea of the contributions people are making in their communities.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Please get down off your soap box.

You’re feet are getting splinters.

You’ve no idea of the contributions people are making in their communities.

Ha ha

You'd want to relax there buddy

Rosita

iamwhoiam wrote: »

All I know is if I had an opportunity to step up I would do it without hesitation and without question.

That's fine but we have people who will raise legitimate questions about work practices to thank for our working conditions. For all their niceness and decency those who unquestioningly and unhesitatingly accept everything impact on very little.

Inspector Coptoor

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Ha ha

You'd want to relax there buddy

I’m not your buddy pal

pandoraj09

Just thinking about my own students in all this. We're a disadvantaged school. One of our biggest issues is attendance. Even on the day of the Orals we'd be ringing home to try to get Johnny out of bed to come in to do the exam. During online teaching lots didn't engage and when the HSCL person rang various homes Mammies gave a myriad of reasons why their child wasn't sending work to teachers. I'd say a lot of ours won't come back in July/August to sit the exam. They'd already got a place in a PLC course anyway and were telling us they didn't need their LC at all now. I'd also say a lot of our JCs will say they're not doing the September exam. They'll be in TY or 5th year and won't see the point. Nor will their parents. I think the JC should have been totally cancelled anyway. I've two large language classes in third year. I certainly don't want to be correcting their exams in September with a new school year starting in whatever shape it does. As previously stated by many here, we need to get our unions on board now.

thecretinhop

lol. genuine question do someteachers do anything but moan?
get over yourselfs the general public will not tolerate your bleating this time.
i have lost my job what did i do, signed up for hse call up, also driving deliveries for old folk.

Mardy Bum

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Now is not the time for this. Given the sacrifices people are making, this is very small.

Those of you paranoid about the Depts aim to get teachers to correct the JC in the years ahead, maybe wait until we get out of this mess and see how it plays out. If it demanded of teachers in the years ahead, protest then.

This time is our generations war, just contribute, don't stand as the group who bitched about it as people died and others lost employment

The JC was useful because it could be used to compare students as every exam was marked against a nationwide criteria. This year will be different. Some teacher will effectively mark against those in their class rather than even the school never mind the country. CBAs are currently the same. The classroom teacher decides ultimately regardless of what colleagues say.

This will be more of an issue for new subjects coming online this year but even at that I'd be hesitant. About 2% of students get a distinction in science, business and English. Some schools have not had a distinction in the new JC at all. What are the chances that this will be marked consistently?This school based assessment will be utterly worthless for those who leave because it can't be measured against a norm. It is a pointless exam now as Inspector Coptor has said.

rainbowtrout

pandoraj09 wrote: »

Just thinking about my own students in all this. We're a disadvantaged school. One of our biggest issues is attendance. Even on the day of the Orals we'd be ringing home to try to get Johnny out of bed to come in to do the exam. During online teaching lots didn't engage and when the HSCL person rang various homes Mammies gave a myriad of reasons why their child wasn't sending work to teachers. I'd say a lot of ours won't come back in July/August to sit the exam. They'd already got a place in a PLC course anyway and were telling us they didn't need their LC at all now. I'd also say a lot of our JCs will say they're not doing the September exam. They'll be in TY or 5th year and won't see the point. Nor will their parents. I think the JC should have been totally cancelled anyway. I've two large language classes in third year. I certainly don't want to be correcting their exams in September with a new school year starting in whatever shape it does. As previously stated by many here, we need to get our unions on board now.

That's one of the things that occurred to me yesterday. I imagined some of my ag science students over the years in the middle of silage season and not wanted to come in during July/August to sit exams.

But also for the cohort of early school leavers who do not come back to school after Junior Cert, I can't see them coming into school in September for two weeks to sit exams when they are not coming back for fifth year. I'd have a bigger issue with that than how they are going to be corrected currently (none of which has been confirmed), as the students who do sit the exams in whatever format occurs will continue on to fifth year or TY and will sit a Leaving Cert in 2-3 years time.

Actually now that you mention it, PLC may be a popular route for a cohort of LC students next year as a way of continuing on regardless of the outcome of this year's LC.

solerina

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Where is the student in all of this?

Are these unions the same unions that shafted the yellow packs during the last recession to feather the nests of teachers who had jobs rather than take a pay cut.

If you hadn’t edited my post in such a way you would have shown that my first sentences were about the students !!!!!!

Shn99

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Actually now that you mention it, PLC may be a popular route for a cohort of LC students next year as a way of continuing on regardless of the outcome of this year's LC.

Lots of people in my year are now on about applying for a PLC course, there will be a huge increase in uptake for PLC courses next year no doubt about it, hopefully the Colleges of further education will be able to cope

thomasdylan

km79 wrote: »

I went from classroom teaching to online teaching OVERNIGHT. Thought I (and all the other teachers ) had stepped up
Wasn’t aware all those professions were working their annual leave
Fair play to them

Anyone worried about PR can forget about it
We are not mentioned in the same breath as supermarket workers now . Never mind other public servants such as guards and nurses

In my area, annual leave more than a day or two has been stopped and EWTD has been suspended.

All annual leave of 1-2 weeks, etc. has been cancelled. People are getting moved to cover hospitals in other counties.

The reason why you won't be mentioned in the same breath as nurses and guards will become fairly obvious if you gain a bit of perspective.

TheDriver

I don't think 99% of teachers have a fundamental issue with July. The issue is a grand stand announcement which has made the public expecting something without having the employees informed. The same happened last week with SNAs and healthcare assistant debacle.
If we were asked by the minister, we could have easily told him that yesterday's announcement gave no assurance to LCs and allowed all other students to effectively down tools making our online teaching roles far more problematic after Easter.
Personally I don't trust governments, we get screwed repeatedly over many years.

acequion

Rosita wrote: »

That's fine but we have people who will raise legitimate questions about work practices to thank for our working conditions. For all their niceness and decency those who unquestioningly and unhesitatingly accept everything impact on very little.

Rosita, I would have my doubts about the "niceness and decency" of such people. They're full of great rhetoric about wearing the green jersey at the moment and some of their grandiose statements should be accompanied by violins :rolleyes: But many of those who shout loudest at objectors and acquiesce without question to all employer demands do little of practical use on the ground. How much teacher solidarity have we seen in recent years? How many have gone out on a limb to help a collegue? Not that many, sadly.

And when the fallout occurs over the coming years and the profession is finally in tatters,there won't be much solidarity then either. Hence, my contempt of the patronising attitude to people's very real worries and concerns.

Bobtheman

thecretinhop wrote: »

lol. genuine question do someteachers do anything but moan?
get over yourselfs the general public will not tolerate your bleating this time.
i have lost my job what did i do, signed up for hse call up, also driving deliveries for old folk.

God bless you tiny Tim

Bobtheman

If they impose something that is unfair then a lot of teachers will lose the last remaining bit of goodwill. Thus many will turn off their goggle classrooms and move on.
Working for students is not a piece of string without an ending.
Basically teaching many brats over the years without a huge amount of support has made me cynical. You can't excuse everything on poor background.

Rosita

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That's one of the things that occurred to me yesterday. I imagined some of my ag science students over the years in the middle of silage season and not wanted to come in during July/August to sit exams.

But also for the cohort of early school leavers who do not come back to school after Junior Cert, I can't see them coming into school in September for two weeks to sit exams when they are not coming back for fifth year. I'd have a bigger issue with that than how they are going to be corrected currently (none of which has been confirmed), as the students who do sit the exams in whatever format occurs will continue on to fifth year or TY and will sit a Leaving Cert in 2-3 years time.

Actually now that you mention it, PLC may be a popular route for a cohort of LC students next year as a way of continuing on regardless of the outcome of this year's LC.

The more I process this the more I think schools might decide it is least disruptive to start the JC exams in early September and delay the regular school year which will need huge planning anyway as there'll have to be a special timetable to cater for social distancing.

It would also rule out issues around disruption to TY and Fifth Year classes. The unions should insist on a two week JC and and at least a week to correct and tidy up issues around assessment tasks and practicals. I just don't see the point of us going back to what will be a relatively chaotic situation anyway and throw the organising and supervising of JC exams on top of that.

TheValeyard

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I’m not your buddy pal

He's not your pal, guy.

political analyst

I'm aware that the new LC timetable will be published this June - public health permitting.

Regarding the usual schedule, why doesn't the State Exams Commission have the exams of both papers each in English, Irish and Maths in the JC and LC take place on the first 3 days of the exam period so that students will have the exams in the main subjects over with by the end of Day 3?

ricero

Few audio messages floating about WhatsApp today saying the LC will begin 29th July and end by September. There will be only one exam a day.

Also hearing there will be a staggered timetable in September for when classes return.

Shn99

ricero wrote: »

Few audio messages floating about WhatsApp today saying the LC will begin 29th July and end by September. There will be only one exam a day.

Also hearing there will be a staggered timetable in September for when classes return.

Did you hear that from Jacinta from Tallaght whos brothers girlfriends mams friend has a contact in the SEC? Must be true

piplip87

My JC thought the summer holidays had just begun for himself yesterday. Unfortunately the school emailed me. Well with some changing of names on my wife's email account, it certainly looks like the school emailed us. Could be a tip for any parent that has a smartarse at home.



"Dear Parent,

We hope you and your family are doing well during this stressful time.

I am contacting you today in regards the Governments announcement relating to the school closures and cancellation of state examinations.

It is our policy that all assignments, online classwork and homework, sent by teaching staff to the students must be completed on time.

Please pass this message onto your children as failure to engage with the learning process will lead to Weekend and after school detentions when the school reopens.

Yours Sincerely, "

Rosita

ricero wrote: »

Few audio messages floating about WhatsApp today saying the LC will begin 29th July and end by September. There will be only one exam a day.

Also hearing there will be a staggered timetable in September for when classes return.

That's my understanding from a union source.

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

The more I process this the more I think schools might decide it is least disruptive to start the JC exams in early September and delay the regular school year which will need huge planning anyway as there'll have to be a special timetable to cater for social distancing.

It would also rule out issues around disruption to TY and Fifth Year classes. The unions should insist on a two week JC and and at least a week to correct and tidy up issues around assessment tasks and practicals. I just don't see the point of us going back to what will be a relatively chaotic situation anyway and throw the organising and supervising of JC exams on top of that.

A standardised timetable would be the most efficient and least disruptive way of doing it. I don't see why the exams can not be sent away and marked as normal, if over a longer time span. JC results weren't out until October this year, would it be the end of the world if they didn't come out until November, to allow them be marked consistently and anonymously?

acequion

rainbowtrout wrote: »

A standardised timetable would be the most efficient and least disruptive way of doing it. I don't see why the exams can not be sent away and marked as normal, if over a longer time span. JC results weren't out until October this year, would it be the end of the world if they didn't come out until November, to allow them be marked consistently and anonymously?

Now that might be a solution. As in if they insist in the useless JC exam going ahead, then have it assessed externally as always. Let teachers who want to do it sign up for it and be paid and allow a longer time span for results as correctors will have to continue the day job while marking. And good luck in that endeavor but you'll always have younger, more energetic and unfortunately cash strapped teachers willing to give it a go.

But what about the supervision? Now while ok teachers could do it in house, you'll need loads of centres as social distancing will hardly be finished in the autumn so does that mean leaving the other classes at home? And is that wise? For a pointless exam just for the sake of it? Because the Minister said so? Drawing a line under this year's JC is the only sensible option. Yes it sucks for many but it's only a small casualty of this major pandemic.

But I echo Inspector Cooptor in appealing to people to stop glibly accepting the preposterous suggestion that we'll be correcting the standard summer JC exam. Just because the Minister said so! It's a non runner on all fronts for very obvious reasons and it's vital that the unions get it stopped.

Rosita

piplip87 wrote: »

My JC thought the summer holidays had just begun for himself yesterday. Unfortunately the school emailed me. Well with some changing of names on my wife's email account, it certainly looks like the school emailed us. Could be a tip for any parent that has a smartarse at home.



"Dear Parent,

We hope you and your family are doing well during this stressful time.

I am contacting you today in regards the Governments announcement relating to the school closures and cancellation of state examinations.

It is our policy that all assignments, online classwork and homework, sent by teaching staff to the students must be completed on time.

Please pass this message onto your children as failure to engage with the learning process will lead to Weekend and after school detentions when the school reopens.

Yours Sincerely, "

In fairness, the last paragraph is not exactly from the "we're here to support you during these stressful times" school of thought!

Bobtheman

Department to ask teachers to teach June 15 to July 15. Distance learning.
Then all teachers in for last two weeks July in school. Even those without sixth years.
Exams all of August. One per day.
JC exams in September to be corrected by teachers
Reliable source . ASTI

Notorious

ricero wrote: »

Few audio messages floating about WhatsApp today saying the LC will begin 29th July and end by September. There will be only one exam a day.

Also hearing there will be a staggered timetable in September for when classes return.

I wouldn't ever pay much attention to forwarded WhatsApp messages, but I can say that a TUI member I've spoken to did say that the plan seems to be one exam a day over a longer exam period. JC invigilators will be used for LC exams to try to implement some form of social distancing. Then the JC correctors will be drafted in to correct the LC (probably a disaster for first time correctors).

I'd imagine a lot of the casual correctors won't look to correct this year since holiday time is reduced. It's a tough job and I think it would be a big ask to have a corrector go straight from correcting the leaving cert to teaching in September.

Notorious

Bobtheman wrote: »

Department to ask teachers to teach June 15 to July 15. Distance learning.
Then all teachers in for last two weeks July in school. Even those without sixth years.
Exams all of August. One per day.
JC exams in September to be corrected by teachers
Reliable source . ASTI

I heard something very different from a reliable TUI source! Two weeks of teaching before the exams, only LC students and most likely block classes.

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Bobtheman wrote: »

Department to ask teachers to teach June 15 to July 15. Distance learning.
Then all teachers in for last two weeks July in school. Even those without sixth years.
Exams all of August. One per day.
JC exams in September to be corrected by teachers
Reliable source . ASTI

What’s this ‘15th June to 15th July ‘ nonsense? You’re not expected to interact with students on the 14th of June but are suddenly obliged to on the 15th?
Dubious source.

doc_17

Block classes won’t work. How can you block teach 30 people? It’s a mess. 8 is prob the max we could put into our classrooms and have social distancing. So the other 15-20 have to be broke up into 2 or 3 groups, supervised by 2 or 3 other teachers.

All the while Art, Engineering, Construction History and Geography students are trying to finish projects. It’s a mess.

We won’t be teaching in June. Get new sources.