Creche charging for child's place during closure.

Millem

The good news is that it will last for 12 weeks!

mirrorwall14

Millem wrote: »

The good news is that it will last for 12 weeks!

Yeah. I’m wondering if this is an indicator that there’s no hope schools are opening in April

Daz_

youcancallmeal wrote: »

There was a few unhappy creche owners on Joe Duffy today saying with the announcement last night they are in a really difficult position now because they aren't allowed to ask parents for money for the upkeep(Maintenance, mortgage, rent etc) of their properties. I didn't hear it all, my kids were running around screaming, but that was the gist of it

They want it every which way

Millem

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Yeah. I’m wondering if this is an indicator that there’s no hope schools are opening in April

God only knows! I hate this online teaching myself.....I feel I don’t “clock off” and am doing loads of work on my day off while my kids are literally running wild!! Like hands in a bag of flour!!!

I can’t wait to get back to normality.

salmocab

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Yeah. I’m wondering if this is an indicator that there’s no hope schools are opening in April

Schools are very unlikely to be open then I’d think however I wouldn’t try to read too much into any dates or lengths of time that are mentioned by state bodies. The reality is nobody knows and everyone is guessing.

lawred2

youcancallmeal wrote: »

There was a few unhappy creche owners on Joe Duffy today saying with the announcement last night they are in a really difficult position now because they aren't allowed to ask parents for money for the upkeep(Maintenance, mortgage, rent etc) of their properties. I didn't hear it all, my kids were running around screaming, but that was the gist of it

I would have thought asking for fees for a service you weren't providing was a difficult place to begin with but it seems that a lot of creche owners were grand with that. Only annoyed that the government have made seeking full fees a PR problem for them.

mirrorwall14

Millem wrote: »

God only knows! I hate this online teaching myself.....I feel I don’t “clock off” and am doing loads of work on my day off while my kids are literally running wild!! Like hands in a bag of flour!!!

I can’t wait to get back to normality.

Exact same. It’s absolute chaos and I’m exhausted

Millem

youcancallmeal wrote: »

There was a few unhappy creche owners on Joe Duffy today saying with the announcement last night they are in a really difficult position now because they aren't allowed to ask parents for money for the upkeep(Maintenance, mortgage, rent etc) of their properties. I didn't hear it all, my kids were running around screaming, but that was the gist of it

Listening to it now. It seems if the Government will not continue paying funding (which I assume is ECCE etc) as they will now pay the wages of the staff.

The extra 15% given to the crèche will not cover their costs.

It seems that the ecce funding etc per child adds up to more than the wages that will be paid.

salmocab

Millem wrote: »

It seems that the ecce funding etc per child adds up to more than the wages that will be paid.

That would be true of the small places that only run ecce sessional. They are generally only open for the few hours and are essentially part time whereas most crèches with full time kids it would only make up a relatively small part of the wages. It’s going to be a problem with solutions that one size will not fit all. The devil will be in the detail got any schemes I think especially hastily made up ones.

Millem

salmocab wrote: »

That would be true of the small places that only run ecce sessional. They are generally only open for the few hours and are essentially part time whereas most crèches with full time kids it would only make up a relatively small part of the wages. It’s going to be a problem with solutions that one size will not fit all. The devil will be in the detail got any schemes I think especially hastily made up ones.

Sorry I should of mentioned they listed out different fundings not just ecce. They are all just letters.....I can’t remember them.

There was one lady on who had 70 staff and provided childcare for 400 families in Kildare.

All childcare providers signed contracts in relation to the funding. It is very unfair that they just stop paying it now without consulting the childcare providers.

Toastytoes

Some people are doing very well out of this situation. The government are going to pay (70%?) of the salaries of the crèche staff while a lot of them are being paid directly by parents to mind their kids in a private arrangement while the crèches are closed. I know lots of the ladies in our crèche are still minding kids from the crèche, we were told by the owner. Is it crazy to assume these private arrangements are cash in hand? I don’t think so and now they will also get most if not all of their salary too on top of that. It’s interesting how it’s panning out from them apparently being destitute to actually doing better than normal from this crisis.

sphinxicus

Toastytoes wrote: »

Some people are doing very well out of this situation. The government are going to pay (70%?) of the salaries of the crèche staff while a lot of them are being paid directly by parents to mind their kids in a private arrangement while the crèches are closed. I know lots of the ladies in our crèche are still minding kids from the crèche, we were told by the owner. Is it crazy to assume these private arrangements are cash in hand? I don’t think so and now they will also get most if not all of their salary too on top of that. It’s interesting how it’s panning out from them apparently being destitute to actually doing better than normal from this crisis.

If i read the media reports right (for what they are worth), the staff will actually get 100% of their salaries paid for 12 weeks. 70% by the Government and the rest by the Dept. of Children and Youth Affairs. So yeah, they are doing just fine. Full pay to stay at home and do nothing complete "Proffessional Development" or earn extra cash (in hand) by babysitting for others. I'm sure this wont be declared to revenue...

While some are still lucky to have full employment, some will no doubt need to take either holitays or unpaid leave to look after their own kids if their work does not allow flexible working time and/or working from home. I personally wont be paying for a babysitter as i cant control who they are exposing themselves to and dont want them bringing COVID-19 into my household.

Toastytoes

sphinxicus wrote: »

If i read the media reports right (for what they are worth), the staff will actually get 100% of their salaries paid for 12 weeks. 70% by the Government and the rest by the Dept. of Children and Youth Affairs. So yeah, they are doing just fine. Full pay to stay at home and do nothing complete "Proffessional Development" or earn extra cash (in hand) by babysitting for others. I'm sure this wont be declared to revenue...

While some are still lucky to have full employment, some will no doubt need to take either holitays or unpaid leave to look after their own kids if their work does not allow flexible working time and/or working from home. I personally wont be paying for a babysitter as i cant control who they are exposing themselves to and dont want them bringing COVID-19 into my household.

We we running ourselves into the ground trying to manage with both of us working from home and a toddler. It’s exhausting. Virtually working all hours of the day until late at night.

shatners bassoon

To provide a view from the other side of the fence, we are looking down the barrel of winding up the business on foot of the government 'bailout'. Our costs outside of staff wages are significant and we now have no source of income. To continue we will have to bear significant losses for an as yet unspecified period and at this point in time it looks unsustainable.

We have (by and large) an excellent relationship with parents and staff who, on foot of government press releases have been contacting us to say how fantastic it is that the sector has been rescued by the government. There is a very real possibility that their creche placements and jobs will, in the not-too-distant future be gone.

I fully appreciate the frustrations of parents who were asked to continue paying for a service they are no longer receiving and while I am sure there were a few bad eggs seeking to profit from the situation, the reality for most creche's is very different.

salmocab

Toastytoes wrote: »

Some people are doing very well out of this situation. The government are going to pay (70%?) of the salaries of the crèche staff while a lot of them are being paid directly by parents to mind their kids in a private arrangement while the crèches are closed. I know lots of the ladies in our crèche are still minding kids from the crèche, we were told by the owner. Is it crazy to assume these private arrangements are cash in hand? I don’t think so and now they will also get most if not all of their salary too on top of that. It’s interesting how it’s panning out from them apparently being destitute to actually doing better than normal from this crisis.

Who said crèche workers were apparently destitute?

sphinxicus

Toastytoes wrote: »

We we running ourselves into the ground trying to manage with both of us working from home and a toddler. It’s exhausting. Virtually working all hours of the day until late at night.

I feel ur pain!

wersal gummage

shatners bassoon wrote: »

Our costs outside of staff wages are significant and we now have no source of income. .

Out of curiosity what are these costs? I understood that local councils will suspend rates, rent or mortgage on a premises can be put in abeyance, evictions outlawed, utility companies are saying they'll talk to customers etc

What other major costs are there? Insurance?

pc7

Still radio silence from my creche chain, they are a dose.

shatners bassoon

wersal gummage wrote: »

Out of curiosity what are these costs? I understood that local councils will suspend rates, rent or mortgage on a premises can be put in abeyance, evictions outlawed, utility companies are saying they'll talk to customers etc

What other major costs are there? Insurance?

A suspension of rates / rent etc is fine but it's still money owed at the end of the day and we need to make a decision on whether it's worth sticking it out for an as yet unspecified period of time or pulling the plug now to minimise losses.

Olivia Pope

That's understandable Shatners. Very difficult for business owners. Are some people still being asked to pay. What if your creche goes out of business and you have paid thousands for no service and you end up with no creche place?

sphinxicus

shatners bassoon wrote: »

A suspension of rates / rent etc is fine but it's still money owed at the end of the day and we need to make a decision on whether it's worth sticking it out for an as yet unspecified period of time or pulling the plug now to minimise losses.

That is sad to hear. Is there any payment in addition to staff wages that the Government are making?

I know its only coming from a media report but this report gives the impression that there were;

https://www.thejournal.ie/childcare-covid-19-5057186-Mar2020/

As part of the new initiative, Revenue will reimburse childcare employers by 70% of their pre-Covid-19 staff costs.

In addition, the Department of Children and Youth Affairs will reimburse childcare employers with 30% of their pre-Covid-19 staff costs.

The department will also pay a retention top-up designed to retain staff in the sector.

My understanding was that this top-up was aimed to help with ongoing costs, granted it didnt say how much.

Millem

sphinxicus wrote: »

That is sad to hear. Is there any payment in addition to staff wages that the Government are making?

I know its only coming from a media report but this report gives the impression that there were;

https://www.thejournal.ie/childcare-covid-19-5057186-Mar2020/

As part of the new initiative, Revenue will reimburse childcare employers by 70% of their pre-Covid-19 staff costs.

In addition, the Department of Children and Youth Affairs will reimburse childcare employers with 30% of their pre-Covid-19 staff costs.

The department will also pay a retention top-up designed to retain staff in the sector.

My understanding was that this top-up was aimed to help with ongoing costs, granted it didnt say how much.

They will also get an additional 15% of their total wage will which is meant to cover their other costs.

sphinxicus

Millem wrote: »

They will also get an additional 15% of their total wage will which is meant to cover their other costs.

Thanks for that. You happen to have a link where that's stated? I cant find that on the gov.ie website. My creche have gone quiet since demanding payment as part of their Red weather warning closure policy. Would be nice to quote this from an official source.

GreeBo

lawred2 wrote: »

Nonsense though as already pointed out to you.

Employer/employee relationship is in no way comparable to a service provider/service recipient relationship.

Yep, not at all comparable.
In one someone receives payment for performing a service, whereas in the other a service is performed by someone in receipt of payment.:rolleyes:

youcancallmeal

Toastytoes wrote: »

We we running ourselves into the ground trying to manage with both of us working from home and a toddler. It’s exhausting. Virtually working all hours of the day until late at night.

Yep same here. I keep telling myself we're lucky to still have our jobs and that it will get easier as the weeks/months go on but it's pretty exhausting so far. Thankfully the younger kids won't even remember being cooped up all day.

Millem

sphinxicus wrote: »

Thanks for that. You happen to have a link where that's stated? I cant find that on the gov.ie website. My creche have gone quiet since demanding payment as part of their Red weather warning closure policy. Would be nice to quote this from an official source.

“The landmark package will also see childcare providers given funding equivalent to 15 per cent of their staff costs to pay for other expenses, including rent, utility bills and loan repayments, where applicable” from the Irish times.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-creches-will-not-ask-parents-for-fees-after-deal-with-state-1.4211230%3fmode=amp

Babooshka

shatners bassoon wrote: »

I fully appreciate the frustrations of parents who were asked to continue paying for a service they are no longer receiving and while I am sure there were a few bad eggs seeking to profit from the situation, the reality for most creche's is very different.

I honestly can see where your concerns come from. But how does this resolve if parents are asked to pay? The majority will not now that the government has stepped in the pay childcare workers, for the ones that did, they would end up losing money once the creches close down in any case. So it's looking like stalemate. Our creche asked us to pay 50% of fees and then last night emailed saying that they have concerns about it, and they need more detail in order to confirm whether or not they're signing up for it.

So the government are telling parents they're in the clear, and the creche are telling us no, not quite yet. I feel pulled every which way and it's extremely unfair on us trying to work from home with no child minder. The reasons we were given for the 50% fee from the creche was so they could top up their staffs wages, that is now sorted, so what other reason will they come up with not to sign up to it. I am so annoyed about this. It's like they are so used to laying down the rules that they won't just let go of the reigns and say so be it and leave us alone for once over fees. That's how it feels, anyway.

Alf Veedersane

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Yeah. I’m wondering if this is an indicator that there’s no hope schools are opening in April

The schools will be closed until at least April 19th. Probably for a good while after that as well

pc7

I’ve cancelled my dd for creche, still no word from them.

pc7

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The schools will be closed until at least April 19th. Probably for a good while after that as well

I hope I’m wrong but I don’t know that they’ll be back before September