Creche charging for child's place during closure.

salmocab

Babooshka wrote: »

I honestly can see where your concerns come from. But how does this resolve if parents are asked to pay? The majority will not now that the government has stepped in the pay childcare workers, for the ones that did, they would end up losing money once the creches close down in any case. So it's looking like stalemate. Our creche asked us to pay 50% of fees and then last night emailed saying that they have concerns about it, and they need more detail in order to confirm whether or not they're signing up for it.

So the government are telling parents they're in the clear, and the creche are telling us no, not quite yet. I feel pulled every which way and it's extremely unfair on us trying to work from home with no child minder. The reasons we were given for the 50% fee from the creche was so they could top up their staffs wages, that is now sorted, so what other reason will they come up with not to sign up to it. I am so annoyed about this. It's like they are so used to laying down the rules that they won't just let go of the reigns and say so be it and leave us alone for once over fees. That's how it feels, anyway.

Give the crèches a bit of time on this I think, they need to see the detail before confirming that all is as it seems. I said a good few posts back that the devil might be in the detail and as this is hastily put together then details are likely to be scarce for now. This certainly seems like a good move but I’d be inclined to give a few days.
Also crèches I’m sure would be delighted to be getting money to pay staff directly from the state plus a few quid to keep the lights on so if it’s going to work they will certainly sign up for it.

shatners bassoon

Olivia Pope wrote: »

That's understandable Shatners. Very difficult for business owners. Are some people still being asked to pay. What if your creche goes out of business and you have paid thousands for no service and you end up with no creche place?

We can't ask anyone to pay if we avail of the emergency refund on salaries.

We absolutely wouldn't want a situation where parents are paying if there was a chance we couldn't reopen when the time comes. Ideally we would have been seeking a contribution from parents which would allow us to operate at a manageable loss while maintaining staff payments in so far as possible. We would in all probability have asked everyone involved to share the burden. Parents paying a reduced fee, staff being paid a percentage of wages and us making a loss.

The 15% is a great help but we understand the capitation grant will no longer apply and this would be roughly equal if not more than 15% of wages.

Another potential issue for creches is the fact that the refund on salaries only applies if the co. is 'unable to pay normal wages and outgoings in full'. We will qualify but what if a creche has cash reserves of 20/30k?

bluefinger

shatners bassoon wrote: »

Another potential issue for creches is the fact that the refund on salaries only applies if the co. is 'unable to pay normal wages and outgoings in full'. We will qualify but what if a creche has cash reserves of 20/30k?

surely this kind of thing is what cash reserves are kept for?

shatners bassoon

Babooshka wrote: »

I honestly can see where your concerns come from. But how does this resolve if parents are asked to pay? The majority will not now that the government has stepped in the pay childcare workers, for the ones that did, they would end up losing money once the creches close down in any case. So it's looking like stalemate. Our creche asked us to pay 50% of fees and then last night emailed saying that they have concerns about it, and they need more detail in order to confirm whether or not they're signing up for it.

So the government are telling parents they're in the clear, and the creche are telling us no, not quite yet. I feel pulled every which way and it's extremely unfair on us trying to work from home with no child minder. The reasons we were given for the 50% fee from the creche was so they could top up their staffs wages, that is now sorted, so what other reason will they come up with not to sign up to it. I am so annoyed about this. It's like they are so used to laying down the rules that they won't just let go of the reigns and say so be it and leave us alone for once over fees. That's how it feels, anyway.

I think the key is that all parents would have to contribute. If a creche signs up to the scheme they cannot charge parents on top of this so it's all or nothing. I do know anecdotally of a few creches that are at least seriously entertaining the idea of not signing up for he government scheme and asking parents for a contribution.

I do completely understand parents' concerns and frustrations btw. I just think the coverage of the scheme has been a bit one sided.

dubrov

shatners bassoon wrote:

I think the key is that all parents would have to contribute. If a creche signs up to the scheme they cannot charge parents on top of this so it's all or nothing. I do know anecdotally of a few creches that are at least seriously entertaining the idea of not signing up for he government scheme and asking parents for a contribution.

They'd be mad to do that. There would be a revolt among customers and the business would be dead within a month

shatners bassoon

dubrov wrote: »

They'd be mad to do that. There would be a revolt among customers and the business would be dead within a month

Maybe so but for some of them it might be the only option

kennethsmyth

Has anyone mentioned deposits by the way. We have two kids in creche with a 2k deposit (1k per child) that in normal cirumstances is usually used for the last month a child is in the creche before starting school.

sphinxicus

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Has anyone mentioned deposits by the way. We have two kids in creche with a 2k deposit (1k per child) that in normal cirumstances is usually used for the last month a child is in the creche before starting school.

ours is a much smaller deposit. To have it refunded you must give x months notice (cant remember how many) that you will be taking the child out. I dont believe they use it against payment for final month. However if the creche are telling us that our child has no place then obviously this rule does not apply and they should refund it.

Are you thinking that your creche may go under and take your deposit with them? Or are you thinking of leaving them during this? MAybe check your contract/parents handbook if you have one.

Alf Veedersane

pc7 wrote: »

I hope I’m wrong but I don’t know that they’ll be back before September

I'd be surprised if they were in a position to reopen before June and at that stage, probably better off not reopening as we won't be looking to go back to Business As Usual at that point anyway.

Guffy

shatners bassoon wrote: »

To provide a view from the other side of the fence, we are looking down the barrel of winding up the business on foot of the government 'bailout'. Our costs outside of staff wages are significant and we now have no source of income. To continue we will have to bear significant losses for an as yet unspecified period and at this point in time it looks unsustainable.

We have (by and large) an excellent relationship with parents and staff who, on foot of government press releases have been contacting us to say how fantastic it is that the sector has been rescued by the government. There is a very real possibility that their creche placements and jobs will, in the not-too-distant future be gone.

I fully appreciate the frustrations of parents who were asked to continue paying for a service they are no longer receiving and while I am sure there were a few bad eggs seeking to profit from the situation, the reality for most creche's is very different.

Maybe creche owners shouldn't have taken the piss and asked for full fees when their variable costs disappeared over night

appledrop

Well well well our creche have changed their turn. From telling us we would have to pay for April even though not paying staff, I'm happy to say we have now recieved correspondence that we no longer need to make any payment + to cancel our dd for April due to government scheme.

About time too.

shatners bassoon

Guffy wrote: »

Maybe creche owners shouldn't have taken the piss and asked for full fees when their variable costs disappeared over night

Measured and intelligent response. Thanks for your input.

AdMMM

shatners bassoon wrote: »

Measured and intelligent response. Thanks for your input.

Unfortunately it sums up how many parents are seeing this due to the approach by some creches.

Out of interest, what costs does a creche have that isn't covered by this Government guarantee? I'm imagining rent, loans, insurance and to a lesser degree light and heat standing charges. Surely there's relief you can request from creditors for these?

Pencil Neck

My Creche has desisted from their initial crazy request for fees for a non service and advised DDs and Standing Orders be cancelled

pc7

I still havent had a single correspondence from my chain since their initial incoherent email 18th March.

shatners bassoon

AdMMM wrote: »

Unfortunately it sums up how many parents are seeing this due to the approach by some creches.

Out of interest, what costs does a creche have that isn't covered by this Government guarantee? I'm imagining rent, loans, insurance and to a lesser degree light and heat standing charges. Surely there's relief you can request from creditors for these?

Rent, loan, rates and insurance are the big ones. Deferral is likely possible. Whether or not it's viable for us to do this for an indefinite period is another matter.

We are trying to keep parents updated but as it stands, we have no idea how this scheme is going to work in practice. This is the latest from the DCYA:

27/03/2020
DCYA can confirm that good progress is being made on introducing the Government’s new wage subsidy scheme and measures for the childcare sector. We understand that the lack of detailed specific childcare information is very frustrating at this time. We are currently drafting specific FAQs for the sector. As the DCYA measures significantly mirror the National Covid-19 Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme and other national business supports, it is necessary for us to await detailed information on the Wage Subsidy Scheme before issuing our sector specific FAQs.

sphinxicus

Looks like our creche has also finally seen sense and have now asked us to cancel our Direct debits. Amusing how they have asked this time as they were certainly not asking for us to continue to pay fees for no service earlier!

Of course continuing in the same vein as they started, rather than showing any empathy for the parents (many of which are also struggling with reduced income), and composing a nice email where they could have said something along the lines of, "we are happy to say that we no longer need assistance in paying the staffs salary... etc". They have instead just used it to once again cry poverty and blame the Government for forcing their hand.

Getting tired of this "woe is me" attitude from them. Many businesses in other sectors will be going under during this time without a second thought from the government or its customers. </rant>

Dobbit

Got one email from my creche saying that are looking into the Government deal and nothing since. Fees are due Tuesday, I've cancelled the direct debit.

Olivia Pope

We got two emails. First one saying not to pay April. Second one just checking in to see how our children are doing and that they hope we are safe and they cannot wait to see us back when this is all over.

Dobbit

Olivia Pope wrote: »

We got two emails. First one saying not to pay April. Second one just checking in to see how our children are doing and that they hope we are safe and they cannot wait to see us back when this is all over.

Not a single one of the emails I've gotten in any of this have asked after the children or any of us.

Olivia Pope

We are lucky Dobbit, our creche is fantastic. In good times and in bad. I just hope our creche survives Covid.

Dobbit

Olivia Pope wrote: »

We are lucky Dobbit, our creche is fantastic. In good times and in bad. I just hope our creche survives Covid.

I hope so too, really great creches are hard to come by. We are starved of choice where we are and I was never truly happy with the place we went with. That doubt is really being validated now.

neonsofa

Wow really disappointing to see how some parents are being treated in here. We had an email on the day of closure saying they would be in touch with more clarity, and have had regular contact since. They waived April fees before the scheme was even announced. And then when the scheme was announced they confirmed it again. Constant updates and check ins, asking how the kids are etc.

sphinxicus

Olivia Pope wrote: »

We got two emails. First one saying not to pay April. Second one just checking in to see how our children are doing and that they hope we are safe and they cannot wait to see us back when this is all over.

Nice after thought there! They couldn't have underscored their priority any better :rolleyes:

We have always had the usual gushing copy/paste paragraph in our emails. If the messages had come from the girls who actually do the hard work I would take it seriously, but from ours and many other dealings with the owners, we know plenty well their lack of compassion for the children and the fact that they are only little breathing Euro signs who must behave or risk being kicked out for being "too difficult".

Sadly, when all this is said and done, i forsee a huge hike in fees under the banner of "repairing the damage CVID-19 caused" so they will get their pound of flesh from the parents one way or another.

physioman

Firstly I'd like to thank shatners bassoon for their honest posts from the creche aspects. Our creche had been quiet up until this week. Suppose they needed clarity from the government before making any decisions. Luckily we don't have to pay from April onwards. We were struggling to manage the kids and work . I work on the frontline and my wife has to go to work every day. Luckily we got a worker from the creche and we pay her so worked out well but stressful. At the end of the day creches are a business so hopefully with help from the government to pay insurance/rates etc. Now if I had to pay for April, may I may not have been understanding but things have worked out ok. On a side note there are a lot of positives from the covid outbreak. I'm getting to spend quality time with the kids, spending less on food, lots of people exercising which can only good for the population. With the stretch in the evening from this sunday all is good

PixelTrawler

No word yet from our Creche in D15. I emailed again this morning early. Radio silence.

We got an email after the closure telling us full fees for the duration or we lose our places.

Not even an offer of a reduced fee (this was before the government package). To intend to charge a full fee which of course includes the profit margin, was disgusting.

Other creches in the area have already cancelled fees.

Not good enough. They arent exactly busy at the moment, so they could sit down and write an email to parents. We've two toddlers and two working parents, this is not an easy time.

El Gato De Negocios

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Has anyone mentioned deposits by the way. We have two kids in creche with a 2k deposit (1k per child) that in normal cirumstances is usually used for the last month a child is in the creche before starting school.

That's a fcuking scandalous deposit to ask anyone to pay. Is it a private creche or part of a chain? Our deposit was €200 per child and the creche didnt charge us for the settling in period.

Pawwed Rig

Statutory Ape wrote: »

That's a fcuking scandalous deposit to ask anyone to pay.

A months fee as a deposit was the norm in the 4 creches that my kids have been in.

Morpork

Can a creche ask for donations from parents to keep them afloat during the closures?

El Gato De Negocios

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

A months fee as a deposit was the norm in the 4 creches that my kids have been in.

That's outrageous.