Creche charging for child's place during closure.

awec

Statutory Ape wrote: »

That's a fcuking scandalous deposit to ask anyone to pay. Is it a private creche or part of a chain? Our deposit was €200 per child and the creche didnt charge us for the settling in period.

Statutory Ape wrote: »

That's outrageous.

It's completely normal.

lawred2

Statutory Ape wrote: »

That's outrageous.

Outrageous? Standard practice I'd have thought

Bikerman2019

Statutory Ape wrote: »

That's outrageous.

No, it is not. It is making sure someone completes their commitment to attend and not skew the expected figures which are used to balance the books.

pc7

Finally got an email from crèche to say suspending fees for now

1874

pc7 wrote: »

Finally got an email from crèche to say suspending fees for now

No contact for over a week and even then it was very generic and didnt really include anything useful.

Pencil Neck

Should they be refunding fees for the 2 weeks in March? Are they getting backdated support from the Govt?

Millem

Pencil Neck wrote: »

Should they be refunding fees for the 2 weeks in March? Are they getting backdated support from the Govt?

I think the government support kicks in on the first of April or maybe it’s after Easter....not 100% certain but I think the ecce funding was paid for the month of March.

Maybe the poster or posters who have crèches might confirm?

Babooshka

Millem wrote: »

I think the government support kicks in on the first of April or maybe it’s after Easter....not 100% certain but I think the ecce funding was paid for the month of March.

Maybe the poster or posters who have crèches might confirm?

It's from April 1st.

Batholemow Cubbins

Just got the following message from our creche in Dublin 15 area...

"Hi parents
Hope everyone is keeping well and at home safe and sound
Just to update u on information about the government helping out Creche’s with staff and other expenditures
We have got no dates when this is to start or when they are going to send out contracts etc to be finalized
I will put up the date for when you have to stop payments as soon as we know exactly not media rumors
I’ll be in touch soon"

bluefinger

we got a call from creche manager last friday saying we wouldn't have to pay from 1st of April.

Pencil Neck

Batholemow Cubbins wrote: »

Just got the following message from our creche in Dublin 15 area...

"Hi parents
Hope everyone is keeping well and at home safe and sound
Just to update u on information about the government helping out Creche’s with staff and other expenditures
We have got no dates when this is to start or when they are going to send out contracts etc to be finalized
I will put up the date for when you have to stop payments as soon as we know exactly not media rumors
I’ll be in touch soon"

That a poor & lazy approach

neris

They paid funding up to last friday. Funding was due to be paid for a longer period but they cut the funding payments down. Zappone hasnt thought or planned anything through and the communication from the Dept is not clear or concise. Its more like we have a plan and we,ll tell you about it properly when weve figured it out

Lizardlegz

Our playschool and my older kids separate afterschool bother emailed us last week saying to cancel any direct debits for April and they will not be taking payment from April 1st onwards until further notice.

lawred2

Batholemow Cubbins wrote: »

Just got the following message from our creche in Dublin 15 area...

"Hi parents
Hope everyone is keeping well and at home safe and sound
Just to update u on information about the government helping out Creche’s with staff and other expenditures
We have got no dates when this is to start or when they are going to send out contracts etc to be finalized
I will put up the date for when you have to stop payments as soon as we know exactly not media rumors
I’ll be in touch soon"

Tell them you won't be waiting for them to 'be in touch soon'..

Cancel the direct debit

1874

lawred2 wrote: »

Tell them you won't be waiting for them to 'be in touch soon'..

Cancel the direct debit

As poor as that is, at least they got a communication, will see in the coming days if our crowd even bother, (Im guessing they are playing it their way and just seeing if parents pay and take it from there, probably play hardball claiming everyone is willing to pay except the parents they deem difficult, whereas I feel most parents will be reluctant to pay at this point). If a creche decides to not avail of the State offer and go it alone and prefer/are better off with full contributions from parents, is there a State organisation to approach, to raise a complaint? CCPC? HSE? Dept of Education? who deals with it.

Cakerbaker

1874 wrote: »

As poor as that is, at least they got a communication, will see in the coming days if our crowd even bother, (Im guessing they are playing it their way and just seeing if parents pay and take it from there, probably play hardball claiming everyone is willing to pay except the parents they deem difficult, whereas I feel most parents will be reluctant to pay at this point). If a creche decides to not avail of the State offer and go it alone and prefer/are better off with full contributions from parents, is there a State organisation to approach, to raise a complaint? CCPC? HSE? Dept of Education? who deals with it.

Funding for ECCE etc comes from DCYA. HSE and Dept. Education have no role that I’m aware of. Tusla do but that’s from a child welfare point of view. It might be worth speaking to your local county childcare committee? They might have some information on the new government support?

zyzjaffery

Saw the gov support news the other day, thought this was something sorted. But got message from after-school today, saying they are not doing the gov initiative. They have to state insolvency and pay back the money to revenue something they definitely not signing up to. They are a private entity simply asking clients to pay half the fees to keep operational.

My wife and I don't quite get what they mean about the reason they definitely not signing up the gov initiative. Anyone gets any idea?

We are not complaining the after-school here. Simply try to understand things better before make any decision. Thanks in advance.

Pencil Neck

zyzjaffery wrote: »

Saw the gov support news the other day, thought this was something sorted. But got message from after-school today, saying they are not doing the gov initiative. They have to state insolvency and pay back the money to revenue something they definitely not signing up to. They are a private entity simply asking clients to pay half the fees to keep operational.

My wife and I don't quite get what they mean about the reason they definitely not signing up the gov initiative. Anyone gets any idea?

We are not complaining the after-school here. Simply try to understand things better before make any decision. Thanks in advance.

Sounds like nonsense. They don’t have to declare insolvency. Cancel your direct debit and let them come to you and talk some sense.

lawred2

zyzjaffery wrote: »

Saw the gov support news the other day, thought this was something sorted. But got message from after-school today, saying they are not doing the gov initiative. They have to state insolvency and pay back the money to revenue something they definitely not signing up to. They are a private entity simply asking clients to pay half the fees to keep operational.

My wife and I don't quite get what they mean about the reason they definitely not signing up the gov initiative. Anyone gets any idea?

We are not complaining the after-school here. Simply try to understand things better before make any decision. Thanks in advance.

Sounds like horsesh't

zyzjaffery

Got further message from after-school. They decided not to take part in the gov Childcare Package with wage subsidy after having sought legal advice.

The employment law solicitor argues that Irish employers should not take advantage of the new temporary wage subsidy scheme. Because the way the bill has been drafted, this is not a scheme which many employers will be able to avail of. It's both employment law specialists and insolvency practitioners' view that they will not be advising employers to go into this scheme, followed by a long list of flawed/unclear points of the scheme.

But from what I heard and saw here, most providers avail of the scheme without the above generic concern. And I feel surprised to hear the stance of the law solicitor and insolvency practitioner, if the gov's scheme is something they won't recommend employers to take on, why didn't they bring this up to gov or at least draw public's attention.

Pencil Neck

zyzjaffery wrote: »

Got further message from after-school. They decided not to take part in the gov Childcare Package with wage subsidy after having sought legal advice.

The employment law solicitor argues that Irish employers should not take advantage of the new temporary wage subsidy scheme. Because the way the bill has been drafted, this is not a scheme which many employers will be able to avail of. It's both employment law specialists and insolvency practitioners' view that they will not be advising employers to go into this scheme, followed by a long list of flawed/unclear points of the scheme.

But from what I heard and saw here, most providers avail of the scheme without the above generic concern. And I feel surprised to hear the stance of the law solicitor and insolvency practitioner, if the gov's scheme is something they won't recommend employers to take on, why didn't they bring this up to gov or at least draw public's attention.

They’re just pulling a a fast one.

per the recent press release from Minister Katherine Zappone the intention is to “provide parents with a reassurance that they are not required to pay childcare fees during this COVID-19 crisis, while providing them with reassurance that they will maintain their childcare places” (link below for reference)

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e37415-minister-katherine-zappone-announces-measures-to-support-childcare-p/

Just stop paying. That can’t take your place from you per the govt statement.

shatners bassoon

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/isme-criticised-state-s-tone-deaf-wage-subsidy-scheme-1.4213070

https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/fundamental-operability-of-wage-subsidy-bill-flagged-by-law-society/

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/insolvency-lawyer-warns-of-disaster-if-firms-reject-covid-19-wage-subsidies-1.4215171

Here are a few articles that might be useful zyzjaffery.

I would comment that as far as I am aware, the guarantee of your child's place applies only if the creche signs up to the scheme.

zyzjaffery

shatners bassoon wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/isme-criticised-state-s-tone-deaf-wage-subsidy-scheme-1.4213070

https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/fundamental-operability-of-wage-subsidy-bill-flagged-by-law-society/

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/insolvency-lawyer-warns-of-disaster-if-firms-reject-covid-19-wage-subsidies-1.4215171

Here are a few articles that might be useful zyzjaffery.

I would comment that as far as I am aware, the guarantee of your child's place applies only if the creche signs up to the scheme.

Thank you for sharing the links. It's always sensible to understand matters from different perspectives. It's pity Gov's good wills can't be properly executed. I hope swift action taken by Gov to wipe the concerns for people not availing of the scheme.

salmocab

My understanding is that the 70% for this week has been paid to places that signed up or whatever the system was but there is no word yet on how the 30% will be paid. They’ve apparently been told that more info will be out in the next few days. Given that payroll will be probably done today for Thursday I can see why some crèches May be worried about cash flow.

lawred2

salmocab wrote: »

My understanding is that the 70% for this week has been paid to places that signed up or whatever the system was but there is no word yet on how the 30% will be paid. They’ve apparently been told that more info will be out in the next few days. Given that payroll will be probably done today for Thursday I can see why some crèches May be worried about cash flow.

I'd like to see how many employees are left in the childcare sector that haven't yet been laid off..

salmocab

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd like to see how many employees are left in the childcare sector that haven't yet been laid off..

I’d be surprised if most employers didn’t sign up for this but I can see why some might be worried about signing up for something that all the details haven’t been sorted on yet. It wouldn’t take long before the 30% is really digging into cash flow for some operations. Zappone isn’t well thought of in that sector as she launched a few initiatives that gave extra work to crèches with no return.

1874

zyzjaffery wrote: »

Got further message from after-school. They decided not to take part in the gov Childcare Package with wage subsidy after having sought legal advice.

The employment law solicitor argues that Irish employers should not take advantage of the new temporary wage subsidy scheme. Because the way the bill has been drafted, this is not a scheme which many employers will be able to avail of. It's both employment law specialists and insolvency practitioners' view that they will not be advising employers to go into this scheme, followed by a long list of flawed/unclear points of the scheme.

But from what I heard and saw here, most providers avail of the scheme without the above generic concern. And I feel surprised to hear the stance of the law solicitor and insolvency practitioner, if the gov's scheme is something they won't recommend employers to take on, why didn't they bring this up to gov or at least draw public's attention.

Sounds more like they wont make a profit and are more concerned about that than making their way, surviving and paying their bills and maybe even staff wages, so someone covering their costs isnt good enough.
Its time the State stepped in and made this compulsory and even centralised and standardised charges/cost for childcare, creches have had it their way far too long.

EriktheRed

Hi, the thread dried out a bit over few days so i revive it a bit (I hope)🙋*♂️

Any ideas why some childcare providers still wouldn't sign up to that scheme? Am I reading it right, that up to 115% would be subsidised by government? Wages and overheads covered. I'm not sure how much exactly these costs are but is ok to ask parents to pay fees when that's on the table?

salmocab

EriktheRed wrote: »

Hi, the thread dried out a bit over few days so i revive it a bit (I hope)🙋*♂️

Any ideas why some childcare providers still wouldn't sign up to that scheme? Am I reading it right, that up to 115% would be subsidised by government? Wages and overheads covered. I'm not sure how much exactly these costs are but is ok to ask parents to pay fees when that's on the table?

My understanding is that despite the scheme effectively having already started not all the details are known by the providers yet, that plus there was a lot of suggestions about places having to be insolvent to really avail of it which whilst certainly appears to be wrong might have put people off. Personally I don’t see why they wouldn’t get on board but I can see why some might be hesitant, l think some places were probably getting bad advice from the likes of their accountants but in lieu of good advice just took it.

Pawwed Rig

The initial drafting of the rules did seem to suggest that the business needed to be insolvent. Subsequent clarification has shown that they do not but they should be 'insolvent' over the course of the shutdown (which of course they all are given they have zero income) ie a business motoring along as normal with normal profits will not qualify.