Creche charging for child's place during closure.

Theboinkmaster

JimmyVik wrote: »

Just on principal I wouldnt give that shower another penny and would move.

easier said than done with demand so high and supply so short...

pc7

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

easier said than done with demand so high and supply so short...

I'm not sure about that, I know 5 families that have pulled kids from our creche due to work issues, family health etc.

JimmyVik

pc7 wrote: »

I'm not sure about that, I know 5 families that have pulled kids from our creche due to work issues, family health etc.

We told the creche we would be back mid August.

Then we got a mail from them saying we had to pay from 29th June even though we dont need the creche until mid August as we are working from home or they couldnt guarantee the place.


We said thats fine we dont expect them to keep it and we can make other arrangements. Then we got a mail telling us they have now kept the place free of charge.

Theboinkmaster

pc7 wrote: »

I'm not sure about that, I know 5 families that have pulled kids from our creche due to work issues, family health etc.

Maybe it's different elsewhere but in Dublin demand has always exceeded supply of creches even in the last recession.

With Tusla closing some down and now some closing due to COVID/reducing size I see that remaining the exact same.

Even with 20% unemployment etc. I still think there will be very strong demand.

Daz_

These private crèche owners seem to able to do whatever they like when it comes to fees . Always with the intimidation in the background that you will loose your place etc .
Hopefully it becomes Managed by the state eventually .

salmocab

Daz_ wrote: »

These private crèche owners seem to able to do whatever they like when it comes to fees . Always with the intimidation in the background that you will loose your place etc .
Hopefully it becomes Managed by the state eventually .

Of course they can they’re a private business. If they do too much it will cost them business though.
Not sure managed by the state is the way to go because I’m not sure state agencies run that good a ship but there should be an agreeable middle ground.

Daz_

salmocab wrote: »

Of course they can they’re a private business. If they do too much it will cost them business though.
Not sure managed by the state is the way to go because I’m not sure state agencies run that good a ship but there should be an agreeable middle ground.

The public crèches main objective is to provide a safe and stimulating environment for the children . Any money left over goes back into the crèche .
The private crèche main objective is to make a profit . And they make a great living out of it on the back of that .
I know which system id favour for my children .

Arciphel

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/revealed-government-announces-75m-childcare-package-to-prevent-providers-charging-higher-fees-39274964.html

"A condition of the funding measures is that childcare providers must keep parental contributions or fees at pre-Covid-19 rates."

Interesting times!

salmocab

Daz_ wrote: »

The public crèches main objective is to provide a safe and stimulating environment for the children . Any money left over goes back into the crèche .
The private crèche main objective is to make a profit . And they make a great living out of it on the back of that .
I know which system id favour for my children .

Great living is a massive stretch, crèche owners all over are looking to get out because they are being burdened with too much regulation and paperwork and can’t spend enough time with the children.
Both setups provide the same care for the children of course owners want to make a profit otherwise why would they be in business, but to think that the state could step in and run them better is fanciful.

Daz_

salmocab wrote: »

Great living is a massive stretch, crèche owners all over are looking to get out because they are being burdened with too much regulation and paperwork and can’t spend enough time with the children.
Both setups provide the same care for the children of course owners want to make a profit otherwise why would they be in business, but to think that the state could step in and run them better is fanciful.

Sounds like you have a vested interest . Have you any experience of public crèches ?
Maybe it was about time they had to do some paperwork and get standards in order with regulation ?
Just cause they are private doesn’t mean they can do what they feel like .

salmocab

Daz_ wrote: »

Sounds like you have a vested interest . Have you any experience of public crèches ?
Maybe it was about time they had to do some paperwork and get standards in order with regulation ?
Just cause they are private doesn’t mean they can do what they feel like .

No vested interest I’m a tradesman, my wife works in the sector though. Have friends with kids in public crèches none personal though.
They always had to do paperwork and stick to standards.
They can’t nor could they ever just do what they feel as they have always had regulations and are inspected.

Pawwed Rig

Daz_ wrote: »

The public crèches main objective is to provide a safe and stimulating environment for the children . Any money left over goes back into the crèche .
The private crèche main objective is to make a profit . And they make a great living out of it on the back of that .
I know which system id favour for my children .

The State have a very poor record where it comes to looking after children and there is zero accountability. Where there is an issue they will throw the full force of the State finances against you to prevent a complaint progressing (see HSE malpractice cases).
Even today Tusla is a disgrace of an organisation when compared to similar organisations internationally.

This is ignoring that it would be astronomically expensive as suddenly we would have another raft of government employees demanding pay rises, more holidays, extensive sick leave, maternity pay and full public sector pensions. Suitability for roles would not be considered and incompetence unpunished. Throw in a complete shut down every few years for industrial action.

The State should not be let anywhere near children or childcare.

purifol0

The state could very well set up creches - it works with schools. The trick would be to not recognise or allow unionisation, therefore eliminating the threat of constant strikes ala teachers unions, gardai, nurses, etc.

salmocab

purifol0 wrote: »

The state could very well set up creches - it works with schools. The trick would be to not recognise or allow unionisation, therefore eliminating the threat of constant strikes ala teachers unions, gardai, nurses, etc.

Schools are very different though, every child goes to school to learn, the state pays for this through various channels depending on the setup. Crèches are in the main open for 10 hours a day and have massive staffing requirements due to the ages of the kids, they also feed them several times a day. As I said earlier a meeting between the two might work as despite what some people think the people running crèches in general know how to run them well, keeping the children safe and sticking to curriculums where necessary and keeping them occupied mentally and physically where appropriate and also keeping the costs in check. The ecce scheme is an excellent example of a good government scheme that can deliver without impacting the businesses too much.

Shybride2016

salmocab wrote: »

Schools are very different though, every child goes to school to learn, the state pays for this through various channels depending on the setup. Crèches are in the main open for 10 hours a day and have massive staffing requirements due to the ages of the kids, they also feed them several times a day. As I said earlier a meeting between the two might work as despite what some people think the people running crèches in general know how to run them well, keeping the children safe and sticking to curriculums where necessary and keeping them occupied mentally and physically where appropriate and also keeping the costs in check. The ecce scheme is an excellent example of a good government scheme that can deliver without impacting the businesses too much.

Crèches and preschools running their ECCE scheme are under regular inspections from so many different bodies it’s ridiculous - Tusla, Pobal, DES and they all look for different things and contradict each other. I’d love to see a proper system with relevant inspections by one body.

salmocab

Shybride2016 wrote: »

Crèches and preschools running their ECCE scheme are under regular inspections from so many different bodies it’s ridiculous - Tusla, Pobal, DES and they all look for different things and contradict each other. I’d love to see a proper system with relevant inspections by one body.

Well that would certainly be a step in the right direction. My wife’s place has had inspections from the same body with different inspectors giving different information. One year they were marked down because they had plasters and were told to let cuts air dry then the next year they were marked down for not having plasters, when they said what they’d been told the year before the inspector shrugged and said it depends on the inspector. Ridiculous.

lazygal

There's a community child care service beside my children's school. If it's the type of place we could expect to be the norm in terms of state run child care i would be very concerned.

DOD555

Liverpool2014 wrote: »

We asked about it but only response we got was that "Full fee is expected". No reasons given. We argued about it and was told deposit will be used to cover it. To add to that, we have a 2 year old who was suppose to start mid March with the same creche that her sister is in and guess what before she starts the creche was shut as part of the national wide Covid19 lockdown. What do you think the creche attitude in this case? 50% of March fee was expected for my 2 year old as they have kept her place. We also argued that we did not even get a chance to use the service and how can we be expected to pay in this case. But that is no good to them and we were told deposit will be used to cover that.

Anyway, really think some of them are taking the XXXX.

I fully agree some Creches are taking the mick. More so the larger ones, I fully understand how it’s tough for the smaller ones to be viable with all the regulation and rent, insurance etc. And it’s tougher for the smaller ones to increase fees when they know the families personally or demand isn’t as high. But a lot of the larger ones in Dublin have that much demand (I contacted around 20 crèches 2 yrs ago and 1 had a space starting 3 months out) they just keep upping the fees as the demand is there with virtually no explanation. But when it’s a private business you can’t really blame them in fairness. What annoys me is them taking advantage of parents at times like this and not been reasonable. At the end of the day we are the customers but with the threat of losing your child’s place it seems the other way around. Concerning March fees, where else would you pay for a service for a month and then if it’s not available you don’t get a credit or refund. Especially when the Creche gets a rebate from government if salaries are fully paid. Although it will have it’s difficulties, some sort of state managed system is the way to go if we actually want people to be able to afford families but can’t see that happening anytime soon.

pc7

DOD555 did the get money for the end of March from the government? I’m going to ask for a refund in some shape if they did

salmocab

pc7 wrote: »

DOD555 did the get money for the end of March from the government? I’m going to ask for a refund in some shape if they did

They didn’t

Dobbit

Is anyone else not sending their kids back? My eldest is going to school in September and I feel at this stage there's no point in sending them back in for 2 months as it will just be confusing to them. It will be a bit of a pain continuing to work from home (my office is closed til September) with a 4 year old running around my feet but the 2 year old is going back to their creche, a different one, at the end of the month so that at least.

The creche the older one was attending tried to ask us for fees (I stopped the direct debit end of March) and then said in April they weren't sure if they would sign up to the government scheme and since then nothing... I'm nearly afraid to engage with them in case they try to say we owe them fees for all that time, I'd be happy to let them have the deposit as it's small enough but that's it.

Daz_

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The State have a very poor record where it comes to looking after children and there is zero accountability. Where there is an issue they will throw the full force of the State finances against you to prevent a complaint progressing (see HSE malpractice cases).
Even today Tusla is a disgrace of an organisation when compared to similar organisations internationally.

This is ignoring that it would be astronomically expensive as suddenly we would have another raft of government employees demanding pay rises, more holidays, extensive sick leave, maternity pay and full public sector pensions. Suitability for roles would not be considered and incompetence unpunished. Throw in a complete shut down every few years for industrial action.

The State should not be let anywhere near children or childcare.

No this isn’t a correct summary at all . Staff working in these public crèches aren’t public servants . I am not sure if you fully understand the structure .

pc7

Dobbit wrote: »

The creche the older one was attending tried to ask us for fees (I stopped the direct debit end of March) and then said in April they weren't sure if they would sign up to the government scheme and since then nothing... I'm nearly afraid to engage with them in case they try to say we owe them fees for all that time, I'd be happy to let them have the deposit as it's small enough but that's it.

They might ask you for notice, I had to give our creche two months notice (did this in April) so we are covered fee wise. If they are reopening at the end of the month I'd give notice so you dont have to pay (depending on their T&C;)

lazygal

Daz_ wrote: »

No this isn’t a correct summary at all . Staff working in these public crèches aren’t public servants . I am not sure if you fully understand the structure .

There's a community run service near us. Run by state (HSE). The staff are public sector employees. They get paid over the holidays etc.

Theboinkmaster

Dobbit wrote: »

Is anyone else not sending their kids back? My eldest is going to school in September and I feel at this stage there's no point in sending them back in for 2 months as it will just be confusing to them. It will be a bit of a pain continuing to work from home (my office is closed til September) with a 4 year old running around my feet but the 2 year old is going back to their creche, a different one, at the end of the month so that at least.

The creche the older one was attending tried to ask us for fees (I stopped the direct debit end of March) and then said in April they weren't sure if they would sign up to the government scheme and since then nothing... I'm nearly afraid to engage with them in case they try to say we owe them fees for all that time, I'd be happy to let them have the deposit as it's small enough but that's it.

I've a 4 year old starting School in Sept also, as well as a 2 year old - both in same crèche.

On Monday 29 June when I drop them off they'll be lucky if I stop the car.

Daz_

lazygal wrote: »

There's a community run service near us. Run by state (HSE). The staff are public sector employees. They get paid over the holidays etc.

Best of my knowledge is that just isn’t the case . Thy are run by management boards and staff are paid by management companies .

Anyway my mine point is that I favour the non profit system

neris

Daz_ wrote: »

These private crèche owners seem to able to do whatever they like when it comes to fees . Always with the intimidation in the background that you will loose your place etc .
Hopefully it becomes Managed by the state eventually .

If you think its such a gravy train why dont you hop on board then and enjoy the riches and easy life of running a creche

Daz_

neris wrote: »

If you think its such a gravy train why dont you hop on board then and enjoy the riches and easy life of running a creche

I’m happy in my own job - but thanks for the suggestion 😀

TM2015

Dobbit wrote: »

Is anyone else not sending their kids back?

yep. As soon as this whole thing kicked off I notified the creche that our child will not be returning. There is no point as he’s starting school in September and we will still be WFH well into the autumn. He’s doing well at home, TV, lego, a little bit of learning, beach, outdoor play.

No idea what’s gonna happen with the after school. We have him down for 5 days but if the schools are doing alternate days, or whatever else they come up with, I don’t know how it’s all gonna work out.

JimmyVik

Dobbit wrote: »

Is anyone else not sending their kids back? My eldest is going to school in September and I feel at this stage there's no point in sending them back in for 2 months as it will just be confusing to them. It will be a bit of a pain continuing to work from home (my office is closed til September) with a 4 year old running around my feet but the 2 year old is going back to their creche, a different one, at the end of the month so that at least.

The creche the older one was attending tried to ask us for fees (I stopped the direct debit end of March) and then said in April they weren't sure if they would sign up to the government scheme and since then nothing... I'm nearly afraid to engage with them in case they try to say we owe them fees for all that time, I'd be happy to let them have the deposit as it's small enough but that's it.

Not sending back until third week in August.