Creche charging for child's place during closure.

witchgirl26

Piehead wrote: »

It’s a crazy request. If you aren’t using the Creche as you are working from home you are obviously non-essential as you are working from home !

But the guidance says that you can work from home & be essential. My sister has been working from home since last March & has a letter from her employer stating that she is an essential worker. She didn't get it to access childcare (hers are old enough for her to be able to work from home while they do school work) but has had it since last year.

pc7 wrote: »

My crèche (large chain) asked for a letter from employer saying you are ‘not’ essential’ and my employer said they wouldn’t distinguish between employees as field mentioned on list.
I’ve emailed crèche my case we’ll see what they say.

That could be a sneaky way of still trying to charge you. My friends creche is still charging any essential workers who filled in their form stating such even if they aren't accessing the services at the moment.

faceman

baldbear wrote: »

This is disappointing. The list says of its not possoble for you to work remotely then you aren't essential.
The government seem to have left this to the discretion of the crèche.

We are with Giraffe and keeping them out this month. No confirmation from them of refund/credit just an indication and to.contact them again nearer end of the month.

I had to push Giraffe to get confirmation of the refund but tbf they did confirm it. They aren’t looking for letters either or any of that nonsense

QRaq

It’s so frustrating that there’s still not a clear answer regarding fees. It’s so unfair to expect parents to pay such high fees when they’re not getting a service in return. We kept our lo home and will re evaluate at the end of Jan for Feb. We’ve also been notified that there are 2 Covid cases in the crèche this week.

AtomicHorror

Dravokivich wrote: »

Is it possible your creche are offering the fee paid for January would be used for the month services resume?

If so, Cocoon have not said anything about it after several emails.

We've cancelled our DD for now- we can set them up for payment again when we see what's what in Feb.

I gather many of the creches are asking for a letter stating workers are non-essential before agreeing to credits or refunds?

Dravokivich

AtomicHorror wrote: »

If so, Cocoon have not said anything about it after several emails.

We've cancelled our DD for now- we can set them up for payment again when we see what's what in Feb.

I gather many of the creches are asking for a letter stating workers are non-essential before agreeing to credits or refunds?

Mine didn't.

Minier81

Dravokivich wrote: »

Mine didn't.

Mine didn't either.

In fact they just asked people to declare if they were essential and told anyone that even if they were an essential worker they could choose to keep kids out and bot be charged fro 11-31st jan (or be refunded to be more accurate).

Sure you could have one essential worker and one other parent?!

pc7

Minier81 wrote: »

Mine didn't either.

Sure you could have one essential worker and one other parent?!

That was sound of them, ours stipulated to had to be both, or the sole parent of just one. Are you part of a big chain?

Minier81

pc7 wrote: »

That was sound of them, ours stipulated to had to be both, or the sole parent of just one. Are you part of a big chain?

No and its a not for profit one too. They are sound. We are both essential worker too so have kept the little one in. The majority of kids are at home.

witchgirl26

I thought the government guidance said that just one parent had to be essential for it to count. I know that's how our creche is working. One of us was deemed essential (by them using the criteria) and the other wasn't. Child was still offered a place.

Minier81

witchgirl26 wrote: »

I thought the government guidance said that just one parent had to be essential for it to count. I know that's how our creche is working. One of us was deemed essential (by them using the criteria) and the other wasn't. Child was still offered a place.

Of course, just one needs to be essential. I didn't mean to imply otherwise by saying we were both essential! But I think even if one is essential and they choose to keep the child home because they can manage then the creche should not charge them.

witchgirl26

Minier81 wrote: »

Of course, just one needs to be essential. I didn't mean to imply otherwise by saying we were both essential! But I think even if one is essential and they choose to keep the child home because they can manage then the creche should not charge them.

Oh ok sorry I think I must have misinterpreted what you said. Oh completely. I really like that our creche is only charging those whose children are in attendance.

salmocab

Minier81 wrote: »

Of course, just one needs to be essential. I didn't mean to imply otherwise by saying we were both essential! But I think even if one is essential and they choose to keep the child home because they can manage then the creche should not charge them.

But from the crèche point of view they are down money if they let the parents choose to not go. It’s an absolute mess and the directions given were too little too late and too vague.

Minier81

salmocab wrote: »

But from the crèche point of view they are down money if they let the parents choose to not go. It’s an absolute mess and the directions given were too little too late and too vague.

But surely the focus should be that if it's possible to keep them home then keep them home. I think the government support should be based on numbers attending. I thought the government guidance was quiet clear that if children do not attend they should not be charged. Ours did ask is to make decision and stick to it, I thought that was fair enough for planning reasons.

salmocab

Minier81 wrote: »

But surely the focus should be that if it's possible to keep them home then keep them home. I think the government support should be based on numbers attending. I thought the government guidance was quiet clear that if children do not attend they should not be charged. Ours did ask is to make decision and stick to it, I thought that was fair enough for planning reasons.

That should have been the focus alright but it wasn’t. The focus was on keeping crèches open whilst pretending they were doing something. If schools are closed for safety reasons what are crèches open?
The government guidance was if both parents were non essential they shouldn’t charge but then gave a list covering most people.

Cakerbaker

Eventually got a text today from creche to say that anyone who didn’t attend in Jan will have their fees credited for Feb but full fees are expected for Feb as they expect to be fully open then. Will just have to wait and see what the govt decides about that.

Though the govts guidance to crèches was fairly dismal. They pretty much just asked crèches nicely to refund / not charge non essential workers, there was no real push for it.

Turkish1

So Cocoon have finally responded and asking for 'either an e-mail or letter from both parents’ employers confirming your work is not an essential service. This request is in line with the procedures outlined by the Government FAQ’s provided'

Can anyone point me in the direction of these procedures outlining that letters from employers are required? I can't recall seeing any such procedures or anything like this mentioned.

I can get a letter no problem from my employer as I am not essential, however my OH is essential (frontline) but is at the end of her Mat Leave and I think technically returns to paid work on the 18th Jan but is not back in work until the end of March and knowing both the HSE they will not provide a letter as a result.

kennethsmyth

Turkish1 wrote: »

So Cocoon have finally responded and asking for 'either an e-mail or letter from both parents’ employers confirming your work is not an essential service. This request is in line with the procedures outlined by the Government FAQ’s provided'

Can anyone point me in the direction of these procedures outlining that letters from employers are required? I can't recall seeing any such procedures or anything like this mentioned.

I can get a letter no problem from my employer as I am not essential, however my OH is essential (frontline) but is at the end of her Mat Leave and I think technically returns to paid work on the 18th Jan but is not back in work until the end of March and knowing both the HSE they will not provide a letter as a result.

There are no guidelines to have to provide a letter to prove non essential. All the crèches have been asked to do is ensure they provide at least spaces for essential workers. There is nothing stopping them opening for all children if they wish.

So the options are:
1. Crèche is open only for essential workers. The crèche would have to refund non essential workers.
2. Crèche is open to all. Crèche doesn’t have to refund anyone who decides not to send child in.
3. Crèche is open to all but has decided to refund any non essential workers if they decide to not send child and they prove non essential status. This I would imagine is at crèches goodwill.

Which option is cocoon running?

Dravokivich

Kenneth, those last 2 options don't sound right to me at all. The instructions laid out a couple of weeks ago clearly called for creches only to provide childcare for essential workers who could not make alternative childcare arrangements.

pc7

Dravokivich wrote: »

Kenneth, those last 2 options don't sound right to me at all. The instructions laid out a couple of weeks ago clearly called for creches only to provide childcare for essential workers who could not make alternative childcare arrangements.

Our crèche (also a chain) have done the same as Cocoon

Cakerbaker

Turkish1 wrote: »

So Cocoon have finally responded and asking for 'either an e-mail or letter from both parents’ employers confirming your work is not an essential service. This request is in line with the procedures outlined by the Government FAQ’s provided'

Can anyone point me in the direction of these procedures outlining that letters from employers are required? I can't recall seeing any such procedures or anything like this mentioned.

I can get a letter no problem from my employer as I am not essential, however my OH is essential (frontline) but is at the end of her Mat Leave and I think technically returns to paid work on the 18th Jan but is not back in work until the end of March and knowing both the HSE they will not provide a letter as a result.

I think the problem is the guidelines / FAQs are fairly weak. Even a non essential worker who can’t send their kid to creche isn’t guaranteed a refund according to the FAQs. And according to the guidelines, as long as one parent is an essential worker, fees are due, regardless of whether you send them or not. That’s probably why they’re looking for the letter. Once they can say one of you are essential, fees are due.

Thankfully our creche just asked for parents who wanted to send kids for evidence that they were essential and didn’t look for anything from the parents who didn’t want to send them (whether they were essential or not) so all parents who didn’t sent back are getting the fees credited to feb.

littlemissfraze

Have the crèche any right in asking for a letter from your employer?
If I tell them that we are non essential according to the gov.ie guidance surely they should take my word on it.
I feel like I'm back in school bringing in s note from my parents!
I am thinking of replying starting that we are not essential workers and we request a refund of our January fees and a pause in fees until childcare returns for all workers.

kennethsmyth

Dravokivich wrote: »

Kenneth, those last 2 options don't sound right to me at all. The instructions laid out a couple of weeks ago clearly called for creches only to provide childcare for essential workers who could not make alternative childcare arrangements.

I agree apologies, however a crèche cannot ask you to get a letter from your employer to say you are non essential. Actually they can ask, anyone can but you could tell them they have no legal right to be given it. They need to refund if you cannot send your child to crèche due to being a non essential worker. They are going to have to accept your word. Parents need to group together in WhatsApp etc and push back as a group on cocoon et all.

Cakerbaker

For arguments sake, and I’m just throwing this out there as something to consider, but could a creche argue that as a parent has signed a contract which includes an obligation to pay fees every month, then it’s up to the parent to provide the evidence (a letter saying they’re not an essential worker) to get out of the terms of the contract and not pay fees for January.

There are probably plenty essential workers (me included) who chose not to send my kids this month and who technically should pay fees (thankfully our creche aren’t asking us to) but I can see how crèches may be concerned that essential workers may claim to be non essential to get out of paying fees so are looking for the letters to distinguish between parents who are actually non essential rather than just claiming to be non essential to avoid fees.

The government has not told crèches they cannot charge fees, they have only asked them not to if possible, so this is really down to each creche to decide whether to refund or not.

pc7

Those who have held their kids home (who could send them), what are you thinking for February. We still haven't been told if we can have a refund/credit for January, so I'm sure the notice will arrive this week for the February bill. I'm hoping to send ours back 2nd week of February if numbers keep going down.

Cakerbaker

pc7 wrote: »

Those who have held their kids home (who could send them), what are you thinking for February. We still haven't been told if we can have a refund/credit for January, so I'm sure the notice will arrive this week for the February bill. I'm hoping to send ours back 2nd week of February if numbers keep going down.

We’re playing it by ear really. Not planning on sending them back in early Feb anyway with numbers the way they are. If numbers come down a good bit then we’ll send them back. Jans fees are being used for Feb but we’ve been told we have to pay for Feb as they expect to be fully open. It’s awkward but we can manage with them at home so I think we’ll stick with that until we’re ok with the numbers.

AnswerIs42

We got the notification that the Feb bill will becoming out next week via DD.

I'm trying to get the email address of the person to complain to but they won't send it to me. Don't think I'll be getting any refund.

Don't think we'll be sending them into the creche until mid Feb at best.

Millem

Cakerbaker wrote: »

We’re playing it by ear really. Not planning on sending them back in early Feb anyway with numbers the way they are. If numbers come down a good bit then we’ll send them back. Jans fees are being used for Feb but we’ve been told we have to pay for Feb as they expect to be fully open. It’s awkward but we can manage with them at home so I think we’ll stick with that until we’re ok with the numbers.

I haven’t sent my guy in to his Montesorri. 3 out of 6 are still going. For me I won’t send him back till they are testing close contacts, numbers/positivity rate is down. Tbh it will probably be when schools are back. My eldest in primary school.
I have not been charged anything yet.

pc7

AnswerIs42 wrote: »

Don't think we'll be sending them into the creche until mid Feb at best.

Yeah, we're in the same boat, there is an account on twitter that is excellent with figures and data, its predicting they should be at November levels for creche/primary cohort in coming week. So I'm hoping another week or two would make a big difference case wise too.

neris

nothings been communicated to creches from the department about how they should open or who they should open to in February yet. Wouldnt be surprised if any instruction/advice/communication is only emailed out at 8pm on Friday evening

pc7

neris wrote: »

nothings been communicated to creches from the department about how they should open or who they should open to in February yet. Wouldnt be surprised if any instruction/advice/communication is only emailed out at 8pm on Friday evening

Wont make a difference to ours they are open to everyone at present.