Coronavirus and the effect on Public transport

dashcamdanny

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

CIE tender for masks.

https://twitter.com/DermotLeary/status/1254701188706000897

Other news today points towards face masks becoming mandatory in certain situations.

---

I also feel guards have stepped up checked over the weekend on public transport.

That man does not represent a vast number of employees and including myself.

I love the way he thinks he speaks for us all.

I will not be wearing a mask regardless of what the NBRU says..

dfx-

Handwashing is scientifically settled. Soap breaks down the virus lipid layer.

Mask wearing is not. It is at best "well it must be if they're doing it" like using Germany or other places. Germany has had relatively low cases anyway, so what that is attributed to is up for debate.

Japan is well adapted to wearing masks in public but not practicing social distancing and it is seeing a spike, so how is it spreading with their faces covered...

Lab controlled conditions for 30 minutes (where they also see poor compliance) isn't the same as the upstairs of the 40...

bk

dfx- wrote: »

Handwashing is scientifically settled. Soap breaks down the virus lipid layer.

Hand washing in hospital settings is scientifically proven, just as the correct wearing of face mask in hospital settings is proven to reduce rates of infection.

What is also known is that most ordinary people don't wash their hands adequately. Which is why an extensive education, etc. is currently be done to get people to wash their hands more frequently and teach them to do it properly.

There is no currently no scientific evidence on the effectiveness of these education campaigns and if it really has helped reduce the spread of COVID19 or not.

The 2 meter thing was based on studies done in the 1940's that showed sneezes go out up to 2 meters. But new studies done in the last two months show that to be wrong and a sneeze can go out up to 8 meters. Yet we continue with the 2 meter rule.

Again let me stress, the WHO and EVERY health authority says that masks are highly effective at reducing the spread of the disease. Which is why there was a big panic about getting PPE for health workers, it WORKS

bk

You should go read this article in the British Medical Journal, by Trisha Greenhalgh, Professor of Primary Care Health Sciences at the University of London and also the Author of the book "How to Read a Paper" a must read book for medical professionals on how to assess medical research papers:

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435#aff-1

In conclusion, in the face of a pandemic the search for perfect evidence may be the enemy of good policy. As with parachutes for jumping out of aeroplanes,38 it is time to act without waiting for randomised controlled trial evidence.39 A recently posted preprint of a systematic review came to the same conclusion.40 Masks are simple, cheap, and potentially effective. We believe that, worn both in the home (particularly by the person showing symptoms) and also outside the home in situations where meeting others is likely (for example, shopping, public transport), they could have a substantial impact on transmission with a relatively small impact on social and economic life.

Amirani

bk wrote: »

Again let me stress, the WHO and EVERY health authority says that masks are highly effective at reducing the spread of the disease.

Can you provide a link to the WHO saying this please? I haven't got this impression from their statements or published material, so would like to see it if I've missed it.

punisher5112

Hay fever will be the biggest issue now.... Sneezing like mad

Amirani

bk wrote: »

You should go read this article in the British Medical Journal, by Trisha Greenhalgh, Professor of Primary Care Health Sciences at the University of London and also the Author of the book "How to Read a Paper" a must read book for medical professionals on how to assess medical research papers:

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435#aff-1

I've read that. But I've also read lots of scientists, public health experts and healthcare professionals arguing otherwise, and indeed criticising many of the scientific approaches in the paper

Here is one such response to Trisha Greenhalgh's paper: https://www.dora.dmu.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/2086/19526/Face%20masks%20caution%20in%20policy_v1_2020-04-22%20%28with%20disclaimers%29.pdf

David Robert Grimes correctly points out on Twitter that it's not actually an example of the Precautionary Principle, but is actually and inverted form of it. Dr Marie Casey, public health specialist, has had similar criticisms.

There are others who are quite supportive; I know Luke O'Neill is a very strong believer in mask wearing now (though he hasn't worn one in his public TV appearances). Fact is the science isn't clear cut and there is much debate. I think we'll probably move towards wearing them, and that's not a bad thing. But it's not based on sound science.

bk

Amirani wrote: »

Can you provide a link to the WHO saying this please? I haven't got this impression from their statements or published material, so would like to see it if I've missed it.

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/documents/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-2019-ncov.pdf

Individuals with respiratory symptoms should:
-wear a medical mask while waiting in triage or waiting areas or during transportation within the facility;
-wear a medical mask when staying incohorting areas dedicated to suspected or confirmed cases;

Health care workers should:
-wear a medical mask when entering a room where patients suspected or confirmed of being infected with 2019-nCoV are admitted and in any situation of care provided to a suspected or confirmed casec;
-use a particulate respirator at least as protective as a US National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)-certified N95, European Union (EU) standardFFP2, or equivalent, when performing aerosol-generating procedures such as tracheal intubation, non-invasive ventilation, tracheotomy, cardiopulmonary resuscitation, manual ventilation before intubation, and bronchoscopy.

If you like I can also point you are research from China at different rates of infection for healthcare workers wearing masks or not.

bk

Amirani wrote: »

There are others who are quite supportive; I know Luke O'Neill is a very strong believer in mask wearing now (though he hasn't worn one in his public TV appearances). Fact is the science isn't clear cut and there is much debate. I think we'll probably move towards wearing them, and that's not a bad thing. But it's not based on sound science.

Natural experiments, such as studying the different rates of cases in Jena versus neighbouring cities or neighbouring countries, is absolutely good science.

Sure it is a bit different to "normal" Pharmaceutical science, it is more public health science and statistical science. But it still is very much good science.

Of course this isn't a topic that is yet conclusively decided upon. This disease and a lot about it is just too damn new.

But do we really want to risk being on the wrong side of this medical and scientific debate?

Amirani

bk wrote: »

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/documents/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-2019-ncov.pdf

Individuals with respiratory symptoms should:
-wear a medical mask while waiting in triage or waiting areas or during transportation within the facility;
-wear a medical mask when staying incohorting areas dedicated to suspected or confirmed cases;

Health care workers should:
-wear a medical mask when entering a room where patients suspected or confirmed of being infected with 2019-nCoV are admitted and in any situation of care provided to a suspected or confirmed casec;
-use a particulate respirator at least as protective as a US National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)-certified N95, European Union (EU) standardFFP2, or equivalent, when performing aerosol-generating procedures such as tracheal intubation, non-invasive ventilation, tracheotomy, cardiopulmonary resuscitation, manual ventilation before intubation, and bronchoscopy.

If you like I can also point you are research from China at different rates of infection for healthcare workers wearing masks or not.

That link isn't the WHO supporting widespread public mask use though. It's specifically for people with respiratory symptoms. I don't think they've supported use for wider public?

Health personnel are different. My partner is an A&E doctor, so I'm quite familiar with the situation there. They haven't been able to properly implement physical distancing in hospitals (between staff and staff, or staff and patients) so they are wearing surgical masks as a matter of course because of this - this only changed very recently.

Amirani

bk wrote: »

Natural experiments, such as studying the different rates of cases in Jena versus neighbouring cities or neighbouring countries, is absolutely good science.

Sure it is a bit different to "normal" Pharmaceutical science, it is more public health science and statistical science. But it still is very much good science.

I'm not saying these practices aren't good science. My academic background is in statistics, so well aware of different research methods. By "good" here I meant volume of evidence as much as quality.

I haven't seen any studies or papers that have highlighted the out-performance of Jena (or others) that control for confounding factors (of which there are many). There is still much debate about the effectiveness. As I said though, this isn't necessarily an argument against policymakers deciding to promote or mandate mask wearing.

dfx-

bk wrote: »

Hand washing in hospital settings is scientifically proven, just as the correct wearing of face mask in hospital settings is proven to reduce rates of infection.

What is also known is that most ordinary people don't wash their hands adequately. Which is why an extensive education, etc. is currently be done to get people to wash their hands more frequently and teach them to do it properly

You seem to be focusing on health workers with prolonged and sustained close contact hours at a time instead of the general public use for ten minutes on a bus which is different.

Handwashing with soap is known to kill the virus in any environment, it's a guaranteed chemical reaction. Face masks are unknown outside of carefully controlled conditions. Some say it is and some say it isn't, some infer it from the flu. Most papers even state the limitations of their studies.

bk

Amirani wrote: »

That link isn't the WHO supporting widespread public mask use though. It's specifically for people with respiratory symptoms. I don't think they've supported use for wider public?

My point from that comment that you quoted is that the WHO and all health authorities do absolutely admit that masks do in fact work at reducing the spread and the above document proves that.

Some folks here seem to be suggesting that they don't work or that there isn't evidence that they reduce the spread of this disease!! They are wrong.

The concern which the WHO have with using masks in the community, is not that they don't work. It is the cost of masks and that it might impact healthcare workers getting masks (and not just respirator types, surgical masks too).

Of course non of us want that. We all want to make sure that your partner can get adequate protection. But my argument, once we are certain that there is enough for health care workers, then we should certainly be looking to the same steps for the general public.

Amirani wrote: »

Health personnel are different. My partner is an A&E doctor, so I'm quite familiar with the situation there. They haven't been able to properly implement physical distancing in hospitals (between staff and staff, or staff and patients) so they are wearing surgical masks as a matter of course because of this - this only changed very recently.

Of course, physical distancing is not possible in a hospital setting, thus the need for PPE and masks.

Realistically the social distancing isn't possible on public transport either and is a bit questionable in shops, etc.

Of course the ideal thing to do is if every single one of us could cocoon at home for the next 2 months, not leave the house once, that would kill it off.

Of course that isn't realistic or possible. So instead we need to start thinking about how we implement some of the same safety measures hospitals have, where social distancing aren't possible. Such as the use of masks on public transport, etc.

Of course masks aren't a silver bullet here. They are just one of many measures that need to be continued:
- Those who can, continue to work from home
- Avoid unnecessary trips
- Social distance when out
- Wash hands properly.
And yes I'd say everyone wearing masks on public transport, aircraft, etc.

On the medical side, lots of testing and contact tracing. At least until we get a vaccine or effective treatment or it burns itself out.

bk

dfx- wrote: »

You seem to be focusing on health workers with prolonged and sustained close contact hours at a time instead of the general public use for ten minutes on a bus which is different.

Do you honestly think if you stand next to an infected person for 9 minutes you wont get it, but 11 minutes you will get it? :rolleyes:

All it takes is one cough or sneeze to get it.

Of course health workers are going to be more exposed to it (but hopefully better protected too).

But this is spreading in the community. It has absolutely been proven to spread in restaurants, bars and buses.

bk

Amirani wrote: »

I'm not saying these practices aren't good science. My academic background is in statistics, so well aware of different research methods. By "good" here I meant volume of evidence as much as quality.

And as such, I'm sure you understand and appreciate that we don't have the time to sit around and for a volume of evidence to build up to prove that it works, right?

How long and how many thousands need to die before we would have enough volume of good evidence?

Esel

There is a Masks thread.... just saying.

hmmm

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-27/coronavirus-lingers-in-air-of-crowded-spaces-new-study-finds

"Coronavirus Lingers in Air of Crowded Spaces"

I'm not joking about windows on public transport. Open them all, and weld them open until we have a vaccine. The worst possible situation for transmission of this virus is in a crowded place with poor ventilation.

All this talk about masks is a distraction - most masks don't filter virus particles efficiently. They have a minor role to play but good ventilation is critical.

Dravokivich

hmmm wrote: »

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-27/coronavirus-lingers-in-air-of-crowded-spaces-new-study-finds

"Coronavirus Lingers in Air of Crowded Spaces"

I'm not joking about windows on public transport. Open them all, and weld them open until we have a vaccine. The worst possible situation for transmission of this virus is in a crowded place with poor ventilation.

All this talk about masks is a distraction - most masks don't filter virus particles efficiently. They have a minor role to play but good ventilation is critical.

There are other safety concerns with windows forced open.

I think most of the Rail fleet now, don't even have windows that can be opened.

GT89

Leaving the masks discussion aside for a moment. Definitely way more out and about today on the roads including on buses could count at least 4 passengers on almost every bus I saw today. One bus stop I walked past today had 4 people waiting at it.

GT89

Dravokivich wrote: »

There are other safety concerns with windows forced open.

I think most of the Rail fleet now, don't even have windows that can be opened.

The ICRs, Enterpise and MKIVs don't. DART and Commuter sets do alright.

Jamie2k9

hmmm wrote: »

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-27/coronavirus-lingers-in-air-of-crowded-spaces-new-study-finds

"Coronavirus Lingers in Air of Crowded Spaces"

I'm not joking about windows on public transport. Open them all, and weld them open until we have a vaccine. The worst possible situation for transmission of this virus is in a crowded place with poor ventilation.

All this talk about masks is a distraction - most masks don't filter virus particles efficiently. They have a minor role to play but good ventilation is critical.

There will be another study out saying the opposite soon and given this was conducted in a hospital I wouldn't read to much into it.

Its possible they night not find an effective vaccine at all.

AlekSmart

Amirani wrote: »

That link isn't the WHO supporting widespread public mask use though. It's specifically for people with respiratory symptoms. I don't think they've supported use for wider public?

Health personnel are different. My partner is an A&E doctor, so I'm quite familiar with the situation there. They haven't been able to properly implement physical distancing in hospitals (between staff and staff, or staff and patients) so they are wearing surgical masks as a matter of course because of this - this only changed very recently.

Very true...The WHO advice in the linked document is quite clear...

A medical mask is not required, as no evidence is available on its usefulness to protect non-sick persons. However, masks might be worn in some countries according to local cultural habits. If masks are used, best practices should be followed on how to wear, remove, and dispose of them and on hand hygiene action after removal

The wider public,as you describe,are in fact multiplying at a steady rate CV or not.

General Public Health levels in the developed World are at levels unimagined back in 1919,something shown by the way in which control and containment has been so effective to date.

I'm confident that CV19 is not going to wipe out humanity,it may not even dent the ever upward population trend.

What it will do,is cause a medium term period of uncertainty in the march of technology,with perhaps a pause in some of humanity's push to advance...but,given time and reasoned appreciation,this will become yet another understood,disliked even feared,health problem with a range of methods available to reduce or ameliorate it's effects....not Cure...just make it liveable with.

Glass half full......and wash yer hands...AGAIN !!

(PS. Full Respect to your partner for their front-line efforts )

dashcamdanny

I think the general mask talk needs to be kept elsewhere.

What I would see is the new recruit inspectors at the bus stops, asking questions.

As the Garda dont seem to be doing it.

There are so many very obvious social journeys being taken. Putting staff and essential workers at risk.

GT89

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I think the general mask talk needs to be kept elsewhere.

What I would see is the new recruit inspectors at the bus stops, asking questions.

As the Garda dont seem to be doing it.

There are so many very obvious social journeys being taken. Putting staff and essential workers at risk.

Where are they going is what I don't get when nowhere's open. It's not only on public transport though traffic volumes in general are much higher too.

Better Than Christ

GT89 wrote: »

Where are they going is what I don't get when nowhere's open. It's not only on public transport though traffic volumes in general are much higher too.

I had a mother and daughter (around 9 or 10) on my bus recently. I overheard the mother on the phone, saying that the daughter was on her way to a sleepover at a friend's house. As far as I'm concerned, it's not my job to police the restrictions. But if I saw them again, I'm not sure I'd stop for them.

People I've refused to stop for in the last few weeks include: groups of kids, visibly drunk people, heroin addicts and bus spotters.

GT89

Better Than Christ wrote: »

I had a mother and daughter (around 9 or 10) on my bus recently. I overheard the mother on the phone, saying that the daughter was on her way to a sleepover at a friend's house. As far as I'm concerned, it's not my job to police the restrictions. But if I saw them again, I'm not sure I'd stop for them.

People I've refused to stop for in the last few weeks include: groups of kids, visibly drunk people, heroin addicts and bus spotters.

Fair enough but could such individuals not be within their right to complain saying they were out to go the supermarket or use whatever excuse and you be called for a trip to the office?

Better Than Christ

GT89 wrote: »

Fair enough but could such individuals not be within their right to complain saying they were out to go the supermarket or use whatever excuse and you be called for a trip to the office?

They could, and I'd be very happy to explain why I chose not to stop for them.

punisher5112

Buses were very busy this morning, definitely more out....

Leonard Hofstadter

Do ye think they will restore the traditional Monday-Friday service soon, if the numbers are constantly going up?

I have to say, while I saw plenty of people out over the weekend, I went out yesterday evening for over an hour walking and around where I live was like a ghost town.

punisher5112

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Do ye think they will restore the traditional Monday-Friday service soon, if the numbers are constantly going up?

I have to say, while I saw plenty of people out over the weekend, I went out yesterday evening for over an hour walking and around where I live was like a ghost town.

If some restrictions are lifted and it warrants it, they may have to. Social distancing will be with us for quite some time so people will need to understand a bus will be full with 18 on it....


In a run today from one terminus to the other I had in total 26, 2 weeks ago this would have been half or less.

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

If some restrictions are lifted and it warrants it, they may have to. Social distancing will be with us for quite some time so people will need to understand a bus will be full with 18 on it....


In a run today from one terminus to the other I had in total 26, 2 weeks ago this would have been half or less.

People won't put up with that. Something will have to give whether it be mandatory masks or they simply will just have to make public transport exempt from physical and social distancing. As soon as more people go back to work and the schools go back demand will far exceed supply if you only allow 18 people travel.

I'm not why we are pushing 2 metres here in Ireland in Italy they're saying 1 metre and in Germany they're saying 1.5 metres. So it's open to interpretation. Also how can restrictions be placed on the DART and the Luas where there's no driver to control passenger numbers.

punisher5112

GT89 wrote: »

People won't put up with that. Something will have to give whether it be mandatory masks or they simply will just have to make public transport exempt from physical and social distancing. As soon as more people go back to work and the schools go back demand will far exceed supply if you only allow 18 people travel.

I'm not why we are pushing 2 metres here in Ireland in Italy they're saying 1 metre and in Germany they're saying 1.5 metres. So it's open to interpretation. Also how can restrictions be placed on the DART and the Luas where there's no driver to control passenger numbers.

On the last one it's quite simple, you give others respect and hopefully respect yourself enough to give room and adhere to the signs on the seats.... Maybe that's too much thought for some...

Jamie2k9

Irish Rail have extended the reduced schedule until Tuesday June 2nd, so I think that make it clear DB/BE will follow.

bk

Did any of you catch Prime Time last night?

They had an expert from Prague on who was a member of the team who recommended the wearing of masks there and was actually wearing a mask on the show (via video). And they also had two Irish Doctors/Scientists on, one from NPHET.

The scientist from Prague was pointing out how incredibly effective wearing masks has been, how in just 3 days, 99% of people were wearing masks outdoors and how the number of cases and deaths immediately flattened out and even reversed almost straight after it was introduced. He also pointed out how cases in neighbouring Austria greatly increased, until they also brought in the same rule three weeks later and then also saw a big drop off in cases.

The two Irish Doctors looked like they were about to **** themselves! The looks going back and forward, they clearly know they are wrong on this topic and were looking to back pedal on it.

The lady scientist (sorry I don't know their names) was on RTE a few weeks ago saying that masks are a very bad idea. She looked so unconformable now. She was saying that new evidence is emerging and that she is now 50/50 on it!

The male Doctor from NPHET said that they will probably need to introduce mask wearing in certain circumstances over the next few weeks.

They both looked super uncomfortable when the Prague person pointed out that they don't have any travel restrictions within the Czech Republic and offices never closed (though shops and schools did). That you just needed to wear a mask.

What's more shocking is that they have just 1/10th the number of deaths as we have! And they didn't need to destroy their economy to do it.

What is also interesting, the Czech Republic has laid out a 5 phase plan on lifting various restrictions. Initially they had a timeline for this, but said they would have to review each stage and adjust the times out. The opposite has happened. The mask wearing has been so effective, they are actually brought forward the time table by a couple of weeks!

It looks like our stupidity and pigheadedness on this matter is killing more people then would otherwise be needed and unnecessarily damaging our economy!

In other mask news, France has now also asked people to wear masks (though I think only mandatory on Public Transport). They are producing 25 million masks a week to distribute to people for free. Berlin has introduced fines of up to €5000 for not wearing mask. Scotland has also recommended everyone to wear masks (though not mandatory) and the British Medical Association has now come out and said mask wearing in public should be compulsory

Wear a mask, you protect me, I protect you.

Technocentral

bk wrote: »

Did any of you catch Prime Time last night?

They had an expert from Prague on who was a member of the team who recommended the wearing of masks there and was actually wearing a mask on the show (via video). And they also had two Irish Doctors/Scientists on, one from NPHET.

The scientist from Prague was pointing out how incredibly effective wearing masks has been, how in just 3 days, 99% of people were wearing masks outdoors and how the number of cases and deaths immediately flattened out and even reversed almost straight after it was introduced. He also pointed out how cases in neighbouring Austria greatly increased, until they also brought in the same rule three weeks later and then also saw a big drop off in cases.

The two Irish Doctors looked like they were about to **** themselves! The looks going back and forward, they clearly know they are wrong on this topic and were looking to back pedal on it.

The lady scientist (sorry I don't know their names) was on RTE a few weeks ago saying that masks are a very bad idea. She looked so unconformable now. She was saying that new evidence is emerging and that she is now 50/50 on it!

The male Doctor from NPHET said that they will probably need to introduce mask wearing in certain circumstances over the next few weeks.

They both looked super uncomfortable when the Prague person pointed out that they don't have any travel restrictions within the Czech Republic and offices never closed (though shops and schools did). That you just needed to wear a mask.

What's more shocking is that they have just 1/10th the number of deaths as we have! And they didn't need to destroy their economy to do it.

What is also interesting, the Czech Republic has laid out a 5 phase plan on lifting various restrictions. Initially they had a timeline for this, but said they would have to review each stage and adjust the times out. The opposite has happened. The mask wearing has been so effective, they are actually brought forward the time table by a couple of weeks!

It looks like our stupidity and pigheadedness on this matter is killing more people then would otherwise be needed and unnecessarily damaging our economy!

In other mask news, France has now also asked people to wear masks (though I think only mandatory on Public Transport). They are producing 25 million masks a week to distribute to people for free. Berlin has introduced fines of up to €5000 for not wearing mask. Scotland has also recommended everyone to wear masks (though not mandatory) and the British Medical Association has now come out and said mask wearing in public should be compulsory

Wear a mask, you protect me, I protect you.

Would the likes of heroin addicts and drunks who are on buses and Luas all day wear them though, they sit in groups and they worry me the most as they have no awareness at all?

punisher5112

bk wrote: »

Did any of you catch Prime Time last night?

They had an expert from Prague on who was a member of the team who recommended the wearing of masks there and was actually wearing a mask on the show (via video). And they also had two Irish Doctors/Scientists on, one from NPHET.

The scientist from Prague was pointing out how incredibly effective wearing masks has been, how in just 3 days, 99% of people were wearing masks outdoors and how the number of cases and deaths immediately flattened out and even reversed almost straight after it was introduced. He also pointed out how cases in neighbouring Austria greatly increased, until they also brought in the same rule three weeks later and then also saw a big drop off in cases.

The two Irish Doctors looked like they were about to **** themselves! The looks going back and forward, they clearly know they are wrong on this topic and were looking to back pedal on it.

The lady scientist (sorry I don't know their names) was on RTE a few weeks ago saying that masks are a very bad idea. She looked so unconformable now. She was saying that new evidence is emerging and that she is now 50/50 on it!

The male Doctor from NPHET said that they will probably need to introduce mask wearing in certain circumstances over the next few weeks.

They both looked super uncomfortable when the Prague person pointed out that they don't have any travel restrictions within the Czech Republic and offices never closed (though shops and schools did). That you just needed to wear a mask.

What's more shocking is that they have just 1/10th the number of deaths as we have! And they didn't need to destroy their economy to do it.

What is also interesting, the Czech Republic has laid out a 5 phase plan on lifting various restrictions. Initially they had a timeline for this, but said they would have to review each stage and adjust the times out. The opposite has happened. The mask wearing has been so effective, they are actually brought forward the time table by a couple of weeks!

It looks like our stupidity and pigheadedness on this matter is killing more people then would otherwise be needed and unnecessarily damaging our economy!

In other mask news, France has now also asked people to wear masks (though I think only mandatory on Public Transport). They are producing 25 million masks a week to distribute to people for free. Berlin has introduced fines of up to €5000 for not wearing mask. Scotland has also recommended everyone to wear masks (though not mandatory) and the British Medical Association has now come out and said mask wearing in public should be compulsory

Wear a mask, you protect me, I protect you.

He had a cotton mask around his neck. He didn't actually have it on though.

This will of course help but more so for one that coughs or sneezes as without eye protection you could well still get it from other mask or no mask.


Washing hands is most important.

Jamie2k9

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1255442900185464832

bk

punisher5112 wrote: »

He had a cotton mask around his neck. He didn't actually have it on though.

Actually, he did in fact pull it up over his face twice, to show what it looked like. Of course he was inside and alone so he didn't need to wear it.

BTW over a month ago, RTE did a show where they had four top doctors/public health people from NPHET in a studio in Ireland and them talking and asking questions over video call to the 5 top officials/doctors from Wuhan in China.

All the Wuhan Doctors were wearing face masks for the entire interview and they were telling them the steps they had taken to defeat the disease in Wuhan.

They stressed everyone wearing a mask in public was vital in limiting the spread. That was a month ago.

It really seems that the Doctors and public health folks in the West have had their heads stuck in the sand and seem to have ignored a lot of the advice from Asia. It feels like they think they know better then Asian Doctors, despite the Asian countries having far more experience of such diseases and we have little in the way of experience with such outbreaks in the past hundred years. It is really dumb and I do wonder if there is a bit of racism involved.

It kind of reminds me of Doctor Semmelweis in the 1800's when he advised Surgeons to wash their hands and surgical tools between surgeries!! A lot of them refused and mocked him, using the same bloody knife on numerous patients!!

Even today, some Doctors and nurses are still slow to properly wash their hands!

Some Doctors can be quiet stubborn and conservative in taking on new ideas in the realm of Public Health.

punisher5112 wrote: »

This will of course help but more so for one that coughs or sneezes as without eye protection you could well still get it from other mask or no mask.

It absolutely shocks me that people here in Ireland still don't understand the reason for these masks! It really isn't that hard a concept to understand.

You don't wear the mask to protect yourself. You wear the mask to stop you from spreading it to others.

If everyone is wearing a mask, then eye protection isn't so important, because the mask will reduce or completely eliminate the expulsions from infected people around you.

And likewise, the virus can't get on your mask or your hands, if everyone else is wearing a mask too.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Washing hands is most important.

Washing hands is important, but increasingly it is looking like the masks are more important.

After all, logically, washing your hands isn't going to help much if an infected person sneezes right in your face.

If everyone wears a mask, then less chance of getting coughed/sneezed on or of someone coughing and leaving the virus behind another surface like a hand rail on a bus that you might then touch.

Honestly I'm not sure why this concept is so hard for people here to understand. It really is very simple idea.

BTW Today The Taoiseach said that they are now considering advising people to wear face coverings on public transport and in other enclosed public places like shops and that they will have revised advice on it in a couple of days.

So looks like it will likely happen now soon.

Wear a mask, I protect you, you protect me.

dfx-

bk wrote: »

Did any of you catch Prime Time last night?

They had an expert from Prague on who was a member of the team who recommended the wearing of masks there and was actually wearing a mask on the show (via video). And they also had two Irish Doctors/Scientists on, one from NPHET.

The scientist from Prague was pointing out how incredibly effective wearing masks has been, how in just 3 days, 99% of people were wearing masks outdoors and how the number of cases and deaths immediately flattened out and even reversed almost straight after it was introduced. He also pointed out how cases in neighbouring Austria greatly increased, until they also brought in the same rule three weeks later and then also saw a big drop off in cases.

The two Irish Doctors looked like they were about to **** themselves! The looks going back and forward, they clearly know they are wrong on this topic and were looking to back pedal on it.

The lady scientist (sorry I don't know their names) was on RTE a few weeks ago saying that masks are a very bad idea. She looked so unconformable now. She was saying that new evidence is emerging and that she is now 50/50 on it!

The male Doctor from NPHET said that they will probably need to introduce mask wearing in certain circumstances over the next few weeks.

They both looked super uncomfortable when the Prague person pointed out that they don't have any travel restrictions within the Czech Republic and offices never closed (though shops and schools did). That you just needed to wear a mask.

Japan didn't close down either with surgical masks worn. And it's not working.

Did the Primetime interviewee provide any peer-reviewed research on his claims?

dublinman1990

Wearing a mask does have it's advantages for people using public transport in that they don't spread their particles from sneezing onto other people & onto surfaces where the virus will spread inside a bus or a train. I did see one driver from Dublin Bus protecting himself while wearing a mask & surgical gloves while he was out on duty last Thursday. Although none of the bus drivers that I have seen from GAI are wearing a mask yet whilst out on duty. They are only wearing surgical gloves whilst out on their runs.

I would have thought that while Go-Ahead are primarily from the UK; they would have made a suggestion to the NTA that all of their bus drivers & other staff within their depots here should wear a mask while they were out of their homes for essential work. But while the British government are not advising people to wear masks while out in public for essential journeys; I am not sure if GA are defying UK government advice by taking an opposite stance on the issue like with other transport operators based there.

GA do operate in Germany & Singapore as well as the UK & Ireland. I would assume that they are complying with official government advice about wearing masks in Germany & Singapore while operating some of their transport services.

GT89

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Wearing a mask does have it's advantages for people using public transport in that they don't spread their particles from sneezing onto other people & onto surfaces where the virus will spread inside a bus or a train. I did see one driver from Dublin Bus protecting himself while wearing a mask & surgical gloves while he was out on duty last Thursday. Although none of the bus drivers that I have seen from GAI are wearing a mask yet whilst out on duty. They are only wearing surgical gloves whilst out on their runs.

I would have thought that while Go-Ahead are primarily from the UK; they would have made a suggestion to the NTA that all of their bus drivers & other staff within their depots here should wear a mask while they were out of their homes for essential work. But while the British government are not advising people to wear masks while out in public for essential journeys; I am not sure if GA are defying UK government advice by taking an opposite stance on the issue like with other transport operators based there.

GA do operate in Germany & Singapore as well as the UK & Ireland. I would assume that they are complying with official government advice about wearing masks in Germany & Singapore while operating some of their transport services.

I've seen a few drivers from DB and GAI wearing masks but definitely not the majority. I don't really see the need for drivers to wear masks it's something that's likely uncomfortable to be wearing for long periods of times and the assault screen with the holes sealed up should be enough to protect the driver from the passengers and protect passengers from the driver.

punisher5112

GT89 wrote: »

I've seen a few drivers from DB and GAI wearing masks but definitely not the majority. I don't really see the need for drivers to wear masks it's something that's likely uncomfortable to be wearing for long periods of times and the assault screen with the holes sealed up should be enough to protect the driver from the passengers and protect passengers from the driver.

Well I always said the screen wasn't there for my protection

Better Than Christ

I've seen a few Dublin Bus and Go Ahead drivers wearing masks. I wouldn't wear one myself unless it became compulsory. I'm probably one of the few who doesn't wear gloves in the cab (I wear really cheap plastic ones if I'm doing a walk around check and then dispose of them). Sometimes I drive three or four buses in one day, so it seems a terrible waste to use four pairs of gloves. The cab gets disinfected several times a day anyway, and I'm satisfied that the company is doing it properly. In addition to that I (and most other drivers) use disinfectant wipes/spray before driving anywhere.

I don't think I'll ever get used to driving with the screen up. Whenever I'm running light, it comes straight down.

punisher5112

Better Than Christ wrote: »

I've seen a few Dublin Bus and Go Ahead drivers wearing masks. I wouldn't wear one myself unless it became compulsory. I'm probably one of the few who doesn't wear gloves in the cab (I wear really cheap plastic ones if I'm doing a walk around check and then dispose of them). Sometimes I drive three or four buses in one day, so it seems a terrible waste to use four pairs of gloves. The cab gets disinfected several times a day anyway, and I'm satisfied that the company is doing it properly. In addition to that I (and most other drivers) use disinfectant wipes/spray before driving anywhere.

I don't think I'll ever get used to driving with the screen up. Whenever I'm running light, it comes straight down.

The screen up will be norm .... You get use to it after around 6 months..... At night can be weird, you think the lights are beside you....

I have wipes in the bag and wipe everything I'll touch down which is the shelf below the screen at money drop, the screen frame for getting in and out as touch off it, indicator/wiper stalk, start switches, all other switches and machine, any adjusters on seat, window handle and of course most important the steering wheel which I scrub the whole thing even around side and back....

thenightman

Are the X routes still running? I've to go into the office early tomorrow for first time since lockdown and would like to get the 7:45 69X from Rathcoole if possible.

GT89

thenightman wrote: »

Are the X routes still running? I've to go into the office early tomorrow for first time since lockdown and would like to get the 7:45 69X from Rathcoole if possible.

Yes there are some departures on Xpresso routes however unfortunately the 69x does not appear to be on that list.

https://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/New-timetables-to-take-effect-from-Wednesday-1-April/

AlekSmart

dfx- wrote: »

Japan didn't close down either with surgical masks worn. And it's not working.

Did the Primetime interviewee provide any peer-reviewed research on his claims?

True,and Japan is also still a work-in-progress in the overall CV19 issue.

As to your question of peer - reviewed research on the Facemask topic,there is little or none available on mainstream channels.

All that is currently out there is from the factions which see little benefit to it and those who believe it will have a noteable effect.

Reading bk's account of the Prime Time piece viz:

The scientist from Prague was pointing out how incredibly effective wearing masks has been, how in just 3 days, 99% of people were wearing masks outdoors and how the number of cases and deaths immediately flattened out and even reversed almost straight after it was introduced.

Whilst I accept that I am NOT a Scientist,I would be most interested in the mechanics of how exactly the Prague man was able crunch those numbers,given what is scientifically proven known about the epidemiology of the CV19 virus.

As late as Tuesday (28th) the recommendations here (Ireland) remain firmly on the side of Facemask useage in the active Healthcare setting...

https://www.hpsc.ie/news/title-19806-en.html

Guidance

* Surgical masks should be worn by healthcare workers when providing care to patients within 2m of a patient, regardless of the COVID-19 status of the patient.
* Surgical masks should be worn by all healthcare workers for all encounters, of 15 minutes or more, with other healthcare workers in the workplace where a distance of 2m cannot be maintained.

With some 28% of all CV19 cases,thus far being Healthcare workers,it is clear those recommendations are prudent,given the specific circumstances.

So,for now,I'm not going with the man of Prague.

Polar101

I wonder if the increased passenger numbers are just from more businesses opening up, rather than non-essential journeys. Just anecdotal, but over the past week or so a pub and a coffee shop in my village have re-opened (for takeaway food) - I suppose some of the staff would take the bus.

This explains it better

whisky_galore

Gardai publicity shots patrolling deserted or near deserted trains and platforms make me laugh when they were nowhere to be seen when the troublemakers were around.