Coronavirus and the effect on Public transport

GT89

Midnight_EG wrote: »

They're busses used as a base for the cleaners

Interesting. Are these cleaners employed by the NTA or DB I wonder? If they are for the NTA I wonder are they doing GAI aswell as DB buses in shared locations like Dun Laoghaire.

devnull

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punisher5112

GT89 wrote: »

Interesting. Are these cleaners employed by the NTA or DB I wonder? If they are for the NTA I wonder are they doing GAI aswell as DB buses in shared locations like Dun Laoghaire.

Seems hit and miss.... There are 2 on Eden quay most days....

Other terminus have them for a few hours but this past week on my route I haven't seen them at all ...

The EV is used to drop them, driver decks off for break or he and possibly another picks up later.....

Bus is dumped basically for the few hours...

The EV has seen the last days of service as they are now parked up in sheds with the Ax....

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

Seems hit and miss.... There are 2 on Eden quay most days....

Other terminus have them for a few hours but this past week on my route I haven't seen them at all ...

The EV is used to drop them, driver decks off for break or he and possibly another picks up later.....

Bus is dumped basically for the few hours...

The EV has seen the last days of service as they are now parked up in sheds with the Ax....

Thought Ringsend still has some EVs in service as they don't have enough dual door buses. I doubt all the EVs are going to be withdrawn as the hybrids will more than likely be delayed now due to the crisis.

punisher5112

GT89 wrote: »

Thought Ringsend still has some EVs in service as they don't have enough dual door buses. I doubt all the EVs are going to be withdrawn as the hybrids will more than likely be delayed now due to the crisis.

Some buses have been sent off on loan from other garages I was told....

In Donnybrook, they are a dumped. Not to be moved, no batteries in them etc ..

dashcamdanny

There are plenty of EVs still in service. I hear there are also plenty refusing to drive them due to social distance from punters.

ax586

GT89 wrote: »

Interesting. Are these cleaners employed by the NTA or DB I wonder? If they are for the NTA I wonder are they doing GAI aswell as DB buses in shared locations like Dun Laoghaire.

Only Dublin buses

Bandito909

ax586 wrote: »

Only Dublin buses

Momentum support are the cleaner crew. The NTA are covering the cost. Some of their cleaners are cleaning garages in Dublin bus, and still cleaning in nursing homes.

ax586

Bandito909 wrote: »

Momentum support are the cleaner crew. The NTA are covering the cost. Some of their cleaners are cleaning garages in Dublin bus, and still cleaning in nursing homes.

If they are covered by the nta why are they only cleaning the DB 16's at the airport and not GAI 33A and 102

Jamie2k9

BE had their own cleaner at Liberty Hall stop yesterday.

As earlier indicated BE Expressway going for another “review”.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-funding-for-bulk-of-public-transport-could-run-out-next-month-1.4249930

dublinman1990

It definitely sounds like BÉ Expressway is on it's death knell soon going by that article. What an absolute pity if it was to bow out in this way.

You have to feel for the staff going through that sort of situation with them having the likelihood of losing their jobs.

GT89

I see in France now the trains were packed and everyone was wearing a mask. Proves the point that social distancing is not possible on public transport when people go back to work. The UK is now reccomending that those using public transport wears a mask but is not making it mandatory.

bk

GT89 wrote: »

I see in France now the trains were packed and everyone was wearing a mask. Proves the point that social distancing is not possible on public transport when people go back to work. The UK is now reccomending that those using public transport wears a mask but is not making it mandatory.

The Asian countries and Czech Republic, never did close down their public transport or even close work places or have the Irish style lockdown.

Instead they just required everyone to wear a mask.

The result has been those countries have a fraction the number of deaths we have had and they haven't done terrible damage to their economies.

Czech Republic has had 1/10th the number of deaths we have had, their unemployment rate stands at just 5%, compared to 28% for us!

My Czech colleagues are shocked when they hear we can't go 2/5km from our homes. They are still going to the office, still travelling on bus/tram/metro, they just have to wear a mask.

BTW major study came out in the US this week. Very comprehensive simulation/study done with supercomputers and AI has found that if 80% of Americans wear a mask while out, there would be a 12 fold reduction in the spread of the virus.

I think we have gotten this badly wrong, we are very late to figuring this out.

GT89

bk wrote: »

The Asian countries and Czech Republic, never did close down their public transport or even close work places or have the Irish style lockdown.

Instead they just required everyone to wear a mask.

The result has been those countries have a fraction the number of deaths we have had and they haven't done terrible damage to their economies.

Czech Republic has had 1/10th the number of deaths we have had, their unemployment rate stands at just 5%, compared to 28% for us!

My Czech colleagues are shocked when they hear we can't go 2/5km from our homes. They are still going to the office, still travelling on bus/tram/metro, they just have to wear a mask.

BTW major study came out in the US this week. Very comprehensive simulation/study done with supercomputers and AI has found that if 80% of Americans wear a mask while out, there would be a 12 fold reduction in the spread of the virus.

I think we have gotten this badly wrong, we are very late to figuring this out.

Well I suppose it's a choice of go with that option where by everyone wears a mask on public transport or in supermarkets or go by the Swedish model of personal responsibility.

The government is going to place an element of trust in both individuals, businesses and greater society post lockdown. Just like in Sweden if you are sick self isolate, perform social distancing and wear a mask if you feel it is appriopriate it may even become socially unacceptable to not wear a mask. Placing trust in people often offers better results than enforcing rules.

If you have to strictly enforce something it's often because you expect a large element of non compliance. It is why society has not descended into complete chaos yet. If there is to be a second wave I can't see the same level of compliance which we saw the last time a different approach will have to be taken.

Phil.x

Masks masks and more masks is what's needed for public overcrowded transport. How? How much? and where do we get them is a problem and one the government is fully aware of and that's why they won't recommend them.

jackofalltrades

Phil.x wrote: »

Masks masks and more masks is what's needed for public overcrowded transport. How? How much? and where do we get them is a problem and one the government is fully aware of and that's why they won't recommend them.

They could easily recommend people make their own cloth masks.
It's worked in so many other countries around the world, I don't see why it can't work here.
I'd put the lack of recommendation down to other factors.

Lord Glentoran

bk wrote: »

The Asian countries and Czech Republic, never did close down their public transport or even close work places or have the Irish style lockdown.

Instead they just required everyone to wear a mask.

The result has been those countries have a fraction the number of deaths we have had and they haven't done terrible damage to their economies.

Czech Republic has had 1/10th the number of deaths we have had, their unemployment rate stands at just 5%, compared to 28% for us!

My Czech colleagues are shocked when they hear we can't go 2/5km from our homes. They are still going to the office, still travelling on bus/tram/metro, they just have to wear a mask.

BTW major study came out in the US this week. Very comprehensive simulation/study done with supercomputers and AI has found that if 80% of Americans wear a mask while out, there would be a 12 fold reduction in the spread of the virus.

I think we have gotten this badly wrong, we are very late to figuring this out.

I’d rather be morto about the Czechs judging us, than mort/marbh/dead.

Jamie2k9

dublinman1990 wrote: »

It definitely sounds like BÉ Expressway is on it's death knell soon going by that article. What an absolute pity if it was to bow out in this way.

You have to feel for the staff going through that sort of situation with them having the likelihood of losing their jobs.

Problem with Expressway they fudged the reform last time and the same will happen again.

fly_agaric

bk wrote: »

The Asian countries and Czech Republic, never did close down their public transport or even close work places or have the Irish style lockdown.

Instead they just required everyone to wear a mask.

The result has been those countries have a fraction the number of deaths we have had and they haven't done terrible damage to their economies.

Czech Republic has had 1/10th the number of deaths we have had, their unemployment rate stands at just 5%, compared to 28% for us!

My Czech colleagues are shocked when they hear we can't go 2/5km from our homes. They are still going to the office, still travelling on bus/tram/metro, they just have to wear a mask.

BTW major study came out in the US this week. Very comprehensive simulation/study done with supercomputers and AI has found that if 80% of Americans wear a mask while out, there would be a 12 fold reduction in the spread of the virus.

I think we have gotten this badly wrong, we are very late to figuring this out.

I probably should not say it without checking figures to back it up but I'd be surprised if we don't have far more to-ing and fro-ing (tourism + travel by our own people) from many countries that have ended up with some of the worst outbreaks of this virus (US, UK, Italy, Spain, maybe even China + the Far East despite lack of direct flights) than anywhere in Eastern Europe.

That has probably had a bigger influence on the size of the outbreak here than making people wear a mask in public places or not IMO.

Not that I'm disagreeing with/being anti wearing masks on public transport or other places, just don't think it could have reduced the number cases and deaths we've had here by 1000s (unless we'd all been wearing them in our day to day lives during late Jan - early March or something (don't remember any calls for it by anyone back then).

Lord Glentoran

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Problem with Expressway they fudged the reform last time and the same will happen again.

Hand the routes over to private contractors?

bk

Phil.x wrote: »

Masks masks and more masks is what's needed for public overcrowded transport. How? How much? and where do we get them is a problem and one the government is fully aware of and that's why they won't recommend them.

Cotton masks and home made face masks.

The Czech Republic had people make 10 million masks in jsut 3 days. France is making 25 million masks a week.

Oh and I just read that this week, NPHET has made the recommendation to government that homemade masks be worn on public transport now.

Of course this follows yesterday's announcement in the UK to recommend the wearing of masks on public transport there too.

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I’d rather be morto about the Czechs judging us, than mort/marbh/dead.

Well you are 10 times more likely to die of COVID19 in Ireland then in the Czech Republic....

fly_agaric wrote: »

I probably should not say it without checking figures to back it up but I'd be surprised if we don't have far more to-ing and fro-ing (tourism + travel by our own people) from many countries that have ended up with some of the worst outbreaks of this virus (US, UK, Italy, Spain, maybe even China + the Far East despite lack of direct flights) than anywhere in Eastern Europe.

Czech Republic has land borders with 6 countries.

It has far more flights per day to China then we have. It receives 600,000 Chinese tourists per year, compared to just 100,000 for Ireland.

It has 20 million tourists per year, compared to 10 million for Ireland.

Prague is a major (and very beautiful) tourist destination. BTW Never say to a Czech that they are Eastern European They say their Central European.

Also it doesn't explain why their neighbour and close cultural Austria had a much higher rate of infections, until they also implemented a face mask wearing policy a few weeks later and then saw numbers drop to similar to Czech Republic once they did.

Finally it doesn't explain the likes of Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong, places close to China with absolutely high density megacities, which have death rates and infection rates a fraction of ours.

Surely a low density place like Ireland should be doing better then any of them. But we aren't, we are doing much worse, 8th worst in the world!

fly_agaric wrote: »

Not that I'm disagreeing with/being anti wearing masks on public transport or other places, just don't think it could have reduced the number cases and deaths we've had here by 1000s (unless we'd all been wearing them in our day to day lives during late Jan - early March or something (don't remember any calls for it by anyone back then).

Sure, but we would likely have had hundreds of less deaths and we would have done FAR less damage to our economy and we would already have been reopening our economy weeks ago like Czech Repulic has been.

Gael23

How will social distancing on public transport work in urban centres when people. begin to return to offices and schools/colleges reopen?
IF Expressway goes under it will effectively cut off some places, some routes still have n alternative provider

GT89

Gael23 wrote: »

How will social distancing on public transport work in urban centres when people. begin to return to offices and schools/colleges reopen?
IF Expressway goes under it will effectively cut off some places, some routes still have n alternative provider

It won't work reducing the capacity of a large double decker bus to less than 20 people is not going to be logical in nay sort of functioning society. They will have to make masks either mandatory or strongly recommended on public transport. The advice is going to have to change from keep 2m distance at all times to keep 2m distance where possible. Public transport will be one of those places where it is not possible to keep 2m or even 1m distance

I suspect if Expressway was to go it would have to be replaced with some sort of PSO service whether that be a regular BE service or a privately operated LocalLink type service.

Dravokivich

I thought LocalLink was PSO?

Emme

GT89 wrote: »

It won't work reducing the capacity of a large double decker bus to less than 20 people is not going to be logical in nay sort of functioning society. They will have to make masks either mandatory or strongly recommended on public transport. The advice is going to have to change from keep 2m distance at all times to keep 2m distance where possible. Public transport will be one of those places where it is not possible to keep 2m or even 1m distance

I suspect if Expressway was to go it would have to be replaced with some sort of PSO service whether that be a regular BE service or a privately operated LocalLink type service.

I hope that if Irish Rail and the bus companies make passengers wear masks they won't stint on cleaning like they did up to the pandemic (Irish Rail anyway). I presume no food will be allowed on trains or sold on trains for the time being. Otherwise there is no point in wearing masks. Incidentally I always used tissues whenever I had to touch doors etc. on Irish Rail, trains were so filthy. I heard from somebody who still travels that trains are clean now. It's a shame that we had to have a pandemic in this country before Irish Rail bothered to clean trains properly.

GT89

Dravokivich wrote: »

I thought LocalLink was PSO?

It is. If Expressway goes under they may have to replace the Expressway services with PSO services where there aren't alternatives in place.

fly_agaric

bk wrote: »

Czech Republic has land borders with 6 countries.

It has far more flights per day to China then we have. It receives 600,000 Chinese tourists per year, compared to just 100,000 for Ireland.

It has 20 million tourists per year, compared to 10 million for Ireland.

That's interesting + surprising.

bk wrote: »

Prague is a major (and very beautiful) tourist destination. BTW Never say to a Czech that they are Eastern European They say their Central European.

Ha, well to us it's all East/over there anyway.

bk wrote: »

Also it doesn't explain why their neighbour and close cultural Austria had a much higher rate of infections, until they also implemented a face mask wearing policy a few weeks later and then saw numbers drop to similar to Czech Republic once they did.

Again taking that at face value/if you are correct (as I don't know myself) that is very interesting.

bk wrote: »

Finally it doesn't explain the likes of Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong, places close to China with absolutely high density megacities, which have death rates and infection rates a fraction of ours.

My thought would be they have some other differences like big, efficient + capable public sectors. Democratic (excl. Hong Kong perhaps), but compared to here they have a more authoritarian style of government that will get shít done, not shy of telling people/businesses what to do and the public will accept that and do it.

Didn't these places give their population masks as well? I know, I know we can all sew one on our sewing machines, "blue peter" one out of a sheet/bandana or whatever but it is a help if mammy state gives you the odd pack of masks to use/some reusable masks you can wash etc, which is very unlikely to happen in Ireland. Most of us will have to make one or get dodgy overpriced masks off some online seller if they make them mandatory when going outdoors.

Seems that there is a turn towards at least recommending masks here too (maybe going further as they try and "open up" economy again) so we'll see what happens.

bk

fly_agaric wrote: »

Ha, well to us it's all East/over there anyway.

Yep, much like much of the rest of the world think we are Brits!!

Of course most of us when we say Eastern mean in terms of their orientation during the cold war. Western aligned countries versus Eastern aligned. Given that they hated the Soviets and revoluted against them, they hate being identified as such. Like calling Irish people Brits because they ruled us for 800 years.

Geographically speaking, they definitely aren't Eastern. Prague is further West then Vienna is! I don't think anyone thinks of Vienna being in Eastern Europe.

Interestingly Prague is closer to the UK then it is to the borders of Russia and London is 600km closer to it then Moscow.

fly_agaric wrote: »

Didn't these places give their population masks as well? I know, I know we can all sew one on our sewing machines, "blue peter" one out of a sheet/bandana or whatever but it is a help if mammy state gives you the odd pack of masks to use/some reusable masks you can wash etc, which is very unlikely to happen in Ireland. Most of us will have to make one or get dodgy overpriced masks off some online seller if they make them mandatory when going outdoors.

It was more of a case that almost everyone in Asia already had masks when this started.

Partly this was due to pollution. But also party from their previous experiences with SARS and similar diseases in the past. Once it became obvious what this was, everyone there just grabbed their masks and started wearing them. There was barely even any compulsion needed from governments.

To them, it is blindingly obvious, if their is a respiratory disease, masks will help to stop the spread of it.

fly_agaric

bk wrote: »

Yep, much like much of the rest of the world think we are Brits!!

Of course most of us when we say Eastern mean in terms of their orientation during the cold war. Western aligned countries versus Eastern aligned. Given that they hated the Soviets and revoluted against them, they hate being identified as such. Like calling Irish people Brits because they ruled us for 800 years.

Geographically speaking, they definitely aren't Eastern. Prague is further West then Vienna is! I don't think anyone thinks of Vienna being in Eastern Europe.

Interestingly Prague is closer to the UK then it is to the borders of Russia and London is 600km closer to it then Moscow.

I get it/understand the annoyance. I'm a child of the cold war unfortunately and am not always considering my terms carefully when posting.
I was joking ("it's all east") but I should realise it doesn't translate over text.

bk wrote: »

It was more of a case that almost everyone in Asia already had masks when this started.

Partly this was due to pollution. But also party from their previous experiences with SARS and similar diseases in the past. Once it became obvious what this was, everyone there just grabbed their masks and started wearing them. There was barely even any compulsion needed from governments.

To them, it is blindingly obvious, if their is a respiratory disease, masks will help to stop the spread of it.

Yes I agree it is a cultural thing (with people there already accustomed to wearing of masks in cities), but I think those countries did ensure supplies of masks for their population (which is going to be a hard task here, hence probably you'll have to make one or take chances online).
From what I have googled, it may not be free/just giving their people masks but governments are doing things to make sure there are enough available for people to buy in shops (presumably also without price gouging).

Of course these countries also have a lot of manufacturing located in them which govt. can twist the arms of. IMO the West's naked greed (outsource manufacturing to get the cheapest products, run down + outsource your public services so taxes can be kept lower) over last few decades cheer-led by alot of the media, business, economic experts etc is biting it in the bottom during this crisis but seems to be the great unmentionable.

thenightman

Are the VT's still in use? I'm doing day on/day off in work since lockdown and can't recall seeing any at Heuston or on the quays like usual. They've no middle door for getting off which is now mandatory on DB, so I assume this will be the end of them.

Midnight_EG

thenightman wrote: »

Are the VT's still in use? I'm doing day on/day off in work since lockdown and can't recall seeing any at Heuston or on the quays like usual. They've no middle door for getting off which is now mandatory on DB, so I assume this will be the end of them.

Passed one heading out of Phibsborough on Sunday with no numbers up, can't recall if it was entering service or out of service though

punisher5112

thenightman wrote: »

Are the VT's still in use? I'm doing day on/day off in work since lockdown and can't recall seeing any at Heuston or on the quays like usual. They've no middle door for getting off which is now mandatory on DB, so I assume this will be the end of them.

Union posted signage for seating...

They will be coming back as with increase they will need more buses on the road.

23 or 24 seats can't recall which number.

Im still seeing AX and EV in service during the week.

GT89

thenightman wrote: »

Are the VT's still in use? I'm doing day on/day off in work since lockdown and can't recall seeing any at Heuston or on the quays like usual. They've no middle door for getting off which is now mandatory on DB, so I assume this will be the end of them.

The Donnybrook ones used on the 145 and ocassionally the 46a are all off service at the moment. Not sure about the Phibsboro ones usually used on the 38s and 39s as I think Phibsboro doesn't have enough dual door buses to allow for dual door only operation on it's routes.

There are still some single door buses running. It will be interesting to see once a M-F schedule is restored will drivers be reluctant to drive single door buses due to social distsncing concerns.

Atlantic Dawn

DART is still operating on Saturday plus timetable for this Monday, they will be completely overloaded at the current restriction levels.

GT89

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

DART is still operating on Saturday plus timetable for this Monday, they will be completely overloaded at the current restriction levels.

Social distancing won't work on public transport. How can it possibly be managed when people are in work and school? Of course the obivous answer from an uneducated viewpoint is add more buses and trains but how can you add more capacity which dosen't exist presently.

Michael O'Leary quite rightly pointed out that there won't be social distancing on board flights. The same will have to be true for public transport. Even at the moment is impossible to maintain two metres or even one metre whilst on a bus or a train. I also think the seat markings are an overkill and should be removed once M-F service is resumed.

dublinman1990

Blackrock Village in Dublin is to be converted to one-way southbound traffic for a temporary basis during the remainder of the Covid-19 pandemic from the 27th of May. Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council has said that it is to encourage more social distancing between cyclists & pedestrians in the area. It has been said by DLRCC earlier tonight that a new county plan will be published in 2 weeks time.

I think this is a carbon copy of the similar changes being done in Stoneybatter by DCC. However the plans in Blackrock could become somewhat controversial because a lot of people who may live & work inside the village while they are in shops, restaurants & office firms being present either in or nearby the town. A big disadvantage for them is that when the restrictions are ended is that if those people who don't drive a car at all & have to reopen their businesses in the village while the restrictions are starting to wind down while they spend their morning & evening commutes heading into work or coming home from work on public transport.

I wonder how the buses are going to cope with these changes by implemented by the council.

DLRCC are probably planning to have new bollards erected along the car parks in Blackrock Village in where they will have to take away the pull-in space for buses at the bus shelter outside the old post office restaurant. The 4 and the 7/7A will be able to cope much easier with these upcoming changes as they will remain unchanged. I suppose the 17, 46E & 114 will have to layover & depart for their routes from near PTSB at Carysfort Avenue instead of being near the DART Station. My theory for the 84/84A, with these changes coming into place soon, is that they should come into Blackrock Main St along the by-pass from Newcastle or Bray. And then those routes should depart from the stop outside St John the Baptist Church like the 7/7A have done for years while going towards Temple Hill.

Cookie_Monster

GT89 wrote: »

Michael O'Leary quite rightly pointed out that there won't be social distancing on board flights..

why not?
Air NZ are mandating 1 seat spacing rules unless family groups, lower capacity on planes, terminal restrictions, more organised boarding patterns and so forth. It's easy, just not cheap to do for airlines.

Cookie_Monster

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Blackrock Village in Dublin is to be converted to one-way southbound traffic for a temporary basis during the remainder of the Covid-19 pandemic from the 27th of May. Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council has said that it is to encourage more social distancing between cyclists & pedestrians in the area. It has been said by DLRCC earlier tonight that a new county plan will be published in 2 weeks time.

That's a genius idea and should have been done a decade ago!!!

bk

GT89 wrote: »

Social distancing won't work on public transport. How can it possibly be managed when people are in work and school? Of course the obivous answer from an uneducated viewpoint is add more buses and trains but how can you add more capacity which dosen't exist presently.

Michael O'Leary quite rightly pointed out that there won't be social distancing on board flights. The same will have to be true for public transport. Even at the moment is impossible to maintain two metres or even one metre whilst on a bus or a train. I also think the seat markings are an overkill and should be removed once M-F service is resumed.

MOL is requiring face masks on his flights.

We have to hope that face masks are as good or better then social distancing rules on flights and public transport.

If the health authorities see that it isn't working or that people aren't following the rules, then they will shut them down again and we will all be back in lockdown.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why not?
Air NZ are mandating 1 seat spacing rules unless family groups, lower capacity on planes, terminal restrictions, more organised boarding patterns and so forth. It's easy, just not cheap to do for airlines.

1 seat wouldn't even be 1 meter, nevermind 2 meters and of course what about the people in front of you.

I was reading an interesting article yesterday about research into the spread of disease on aircraft. There was a case 10 years ago of a lady on a flight in Hong Kong with SARS, she infected 22 people, up to 7 rows in front of her!

We have to hope face mask wearing is better then social distancing.

Here is a simulation of what happens when you cough on an aircraft:

GT89

bk wrote: »

MOL is requiring face masks on his flights.

We have to hope that face masks are as good or better then social distancing rules on flights and public transport.

If the health authorities see that it isn't working or that people aren't following the rules, then they will shut them down again and we will all be back in lockdown.

The main problem I see with masks on public transport I see is the level of enforcement. Who will enforce a mandatory mask wearing policy enforcement of by laws on public transport at the moment is patchy at best. I'm not sure will staff want to do it especially now as most just want passenger on and off as soon as possible.

I'm not sure if bringing back lockdown measures again will work either. The question has to be asked would another lockdown gain the same level of compliance as this one considering as the weeks have gone by with this lockdown in place compliance has become less and less as time has gone on. A Swedish style approach may be a more logical approach to a second wave of cases when you consider the fact Sweden has had a similar enough death rate as Ireland.

bk

GT89 wrote: »

The main problem I see with masks on public transport I see is the level of enforcement. Who will enforce a mandatory mask wearing policy enforcement of by laws on public transport at the moment is patchy at best. I'm not sure will staff want to do it especially now as most just want passenger on and off as soon as possible.

I'd hope that staff would want to do it, since their jobs are on the line.

If it isn't enforced and it is found to spread on buses/planes, then they will be shutdown by the health authorities and drivers and aircrew will be laid off as they have no work.

Also it is in their own interest for their own safety.

GT89 wrote: »

I'm not sure if bringing back lockdown measures again will work either. The question has to be asked would another lockdown gain the same level of compliance as this one considering as the weeks have gone by with this lockdown in place compliance has become less and less as time has gone on. A Swedish style approach may be a more logical approach to a second wave of cases when you consider the fact Sweden has had a similar enough death rate as Ireland.

This is a line of thinking that I've seen expressed in multiple places online and I think it is very wrong.

Of course the government can send us all back into lockdown again.

While of course they can't put a Garda outside every front door. They can shutdown public transport, airports, businesses, parks, etc. They can set up checkpoints on roads and motorways.

And they can bring it big fines for anyone caught outside. Our lockdown has been relatively tame compared to some other countries, even here in Europe. Spain has been literally no leaving your home, even for exercise, for the past few weeks.

They don't want to, but of course they will if they have to.

We can't follow Sweden's very questionable strategy. We don't have the critical bed capacity that they have. We have the lowest number of ICU beds in Europe, which drives our conservative approach.

stephenjmcd

GT89 wrote: »

The main problem I see with masks on public transport I see is the level of enforcement. Who will enforce a mandatory mask wearing policy enforcement of by laws on public transport at the moment is patchy at best. I'm not sure will staff want to do it especially now as most just want passenger on and off as soon as possible.

I'm not sure if bringing back lockdown measures again will work either. The question has to be asked would another lockdown gain the same level of compliance as this one considering as the weeks have gone by with this lockdown in place compliance has become less and less as time has gone on. A Swedish style approach may be a more logical approach to a second wave of cases when you consider the fact Sweden has had a similar enough death rate as Ireland.

There'll be nobody to enforce it because it's only going to be advice and guidance and not mandatory.

thenightman

bk wrote: »

I'd hope that staff would want to do it, since their jobs are on the line.

If it isn't enforced and it is found to spread on buses/planes, then they will be shutdown by the health authorities and drivers and aircrew will be laid off as they have no work.

Also it is in their own interest for their own safety.



This is a line of thinking that I've seen expressed in multiple places online and I think it is very wrong.

Of course the government can send us all back into lockdown again.

While of course they can't put a Garda outside every front door. They can shutdown public transport, airports, businesses, parks, etc. They can set up checkpoints on roads and motorways.

And they can bring it big fines for anyone caught outside. Our lockdown has been relatively tame compared to some other countries, even here in Europe. Spain has been literally no leaving your home, even for exercise, for the past few weeks.

They don't want to, but of course they will if they have to.

We can't follow Sweden's very questionable strategy. We don't have the critical bed capacity that they have. We have the lowest number of ICU beds in Europe, which drives our conservative approach.

Get real. If you were a bus driver you wouldn't be risking infection by arguing with people about mask wearing. I've seen two arguments during lockdown on buses. One with a fella who paid a short fare for a long journey and one with a fella who wouldn't get off the middle door and wanted out the front. Both ended up with head right into drivers screen roaring and blinding at them, one driver was a female too if that wasn't bad enough. I can only imagine the arguments if a driver wouldn't let people on board without masks.

They will never shutdown buses entirely either, as essential workers wouldn't be able to get to places of work.

If they make masks mandatory, then masks should be cheap and easily available and guards prepared to enforce wearing of same. It's a nonsense expecting drivers to do it.

GT89

bk wrote: »

I'd hope that staff would want to do it, since their jobs are on the line.

If it isn't enforced and it is found to spread on buses/planes, then they will be shutdown by the health authorities and drivers and aircrew will be laid off as they have no work.

Also it is in their own interest for their own safety.

I see how they can make it mandatory on aircraft considering security is much more rigerous than buses and trains and any resistance would likely lead to someone being arrested for an air rage incident meaning they will either comply or be removed from the flight. The same level of policing and/or security does not exist on public transport.

This is a line of thinking that I've seen expressed in multiple places online and I think it is very wrong.

Of course the government can send us all back into lockdown again.

While of course they can't put a Garda outside every front door. They can shutdown public transport, airports, businesses, parks, etc. They can set up checkpoints on roads and motorways.

And they can bring it big fines for anyone caught outside. Our lockdown has been relatively tame compared to some other countries, even here in Europe. Spain has been literally no leaving your home, even for exercise, for the past few weeks.

They don't want to, but of course they will if they have to.

We can't follow Sweden's very questionable strategy. We don't have the critical bed capacity that they have. We have the lowest number of ICU beds in Europe, which drives our conservative approach.

I know other countries like Spain and Italy had lockdowns which were much more strict than our own. However those countries also have far more police resources than here. I have been in Italy a number of times and can safely say they that there are far more police and even military on the streets over there are Gardai on the streets.

As for shutting down public transport I would say that is unlikely even in the countries which had more strict lockdowns than here public transport continued to operate for essential workers at a reduced basis.

I think our government are getting a lot of unjust praise at the moment remember even if you believe their strategy is questionable they still have a very similar death rate and rate of ICU admissions as we have here despite not having a lockdown.

bk

thenightman wrote: »

Get real. If you were a bus driver you wouldn't be risking infection by arguing with people about mask wearing. I've seen two arguments during lockdown on buses. One with a fella who paid a short fare for a long journey and one with a fella who wouldn't get off the middle door and wanted out the front. Both ended up with head right into drivers screen roaring and blinding at them, one driver was a female too if that wasn't bad enough. I can only imagine the arguments if a driver wouldn't let people on board without masks.

You see people at a stop without a mask on, don't stop.

I'd agree though that private security should be hired to go on the buses for now. Like bigger supermarkets have done, hiring out of work bouncers.

thenightman wrote: »

They will never shutdown buses entirely either, as essential workers wouldn't be able to get to places of work.

I really wouldn't take that for granted.

Look at the childcare for medical staff and essential workers. Initially they were saying that they would do it, but they couldn't figure out how to do is safely, so now they aren't.

If things get really too busy on buses and it causes the rate of infection to increase, they'll shut them down, no question about that, despite the difficulties it will create for essential workers.

thenightman wrote: »

If they make masks mandatory, then masks should be cheap and easily available and guards prepared to enforce wearing of same. It's a nonsense expecting drivers to do it.

Well they are going to recommend facecoverings that you can make at home yourself. I agree that in time they should ramp up production of proper masks for everyone. But every other country is weeks if not months ahead of us in this regard.

I agree it should be legally enforced.

I know bus drivers generally and understandably avoid confrontation with the public. Usually, not worth the effort. But now your health and livelihood depends on this working.

Better Than Christ

I haven't read the thread (I'm a very busy man), so apologies if this has already been raised, but I wonder is there anything at all to be said for issuing bus drivers with a supply of disposable face masks. Therefore, if someone tries to board without a mask, the driver can simply pass one out to them and advise them to wear it for the whole journey.

GT89

Better Than Christ wrote: »

I haven't read the thread (I'm a very busy man), so apologies if this has already been raised, but I wonder is there anything at all to be said for issuing bus drivers with a supply of disposable face masks. Therefore, if someone tries to board without a mask, the driver can simply pass one out to them and advise them to wear it for the whole journey.

I'd imagine there might be safety issue with that as the driver would be handling the masks even with gloves which I don't think would ever be made mandatory. Also the other issue would that the driver may have to lower the assault screen to hand the passenger the mask. Perhaps a more viable solution would be to leave a box of masks on top of the luggage rack where passengers can help themselves. Over in the UK they have a box where they distribute free newspapers on board so perhaps the same could be done here with masks.

GT89

bk wrote: »

You see people at a stop without a mask on, don't stop.

I'd agree though that private security should be hired to go on the buses for now. Like bigger supermarkets have done, hiring out of work bouncers.

I'd agree with hiring security but it won't be possible to have a security guard on every single bus. It would require one security guard for every driver so 5k security guards would be needed as security guards must work in twos for safety reasons.

I really wouldn't take that for granted.

Look at the childcare for medical staff and essential workers. Initially they were saying that they would do it, but they couldn't figure out how to do is safely, so now they aren't.

If things get really too busy on buses and it causes the rate of infection to increase, they'll shut them down, no question about that, despite the difficulties it will create for essential workers.

But if the rate of infection increases surely they would have to go back into lockdown. During lockdown I would say due to the low level of passengers public transport was far safer than places like supermarkets especially the smaller ones with narrow aisles. You have to ask yourself the question why was public transport not stopped during the lockdown? Because it is an essential service.

I would imagine the demand for public transport was far greater amongst essential workers than the demand for childcare. DB are still carrying something like 11k passengers a day a large percentage would be essiential workers.

Of course they could stop public transport but that would likely cause more harm than good. Remember essential workers are not just doctors and nurses but also cleaners, supermarket staff, carers, security guards, some factory workers and essential maintence workers.

A lot of these workers are low paid and don't own cars and are reliant on public transport. For example I work in a supermarket myself a lot my colleagues are dependent on public transport and if public transport was to be stopped for a prolonged period of time it wouldn't surprise me if many decided to quit if they could not get to work quickly. Now you could have a situation where lives are literally put at risk if you had staff shortages in areas like hospital cleaners and carers.

dashcamdanny

thenightman wrote: »

Get real. If you were a bus driver you wouldn't be risking infection by arguing with people about mask wearing. I've seen two arguments during lockdown on buses. One with a fella who paid a short fare for a long journey and one with a fella who wouldn't get off the middle door and wanted out the front. Both ended up with head right into drivers screen roaring and blinding at them, one driver was a female too if that wasn't bad enough. I can only imagine the arguments if a driver wouldn't let people on board without masks.

They will never shutdown buses entirely either, as essential workers wouldn't be able to get to places of work.

If they make masks mandatory, then masks should be cheap and easily available and guards prepared to enforce wearing of same. It's a nonsense expecting drivers to do it.

Driver wont stop unless you have a mask, Driver wont drive unless you keep it on. Simples.


Would be great to have Luas style security. But the best DB can hope for is a bottle of hand sanitizer.
Most drivers are well up for it. They deal with it everyday anyways


Although. TBH.. I will Not be wearing one unless its made compulsory from the company. (NOT Dermot or who ever)

LastStop

bk wrote: »

You see people at a stop without a mask on, don't stop.

That's fine if there's just one person at the stop or everyone waiting is visible. There are usually people leaning against the wall that you won't notice until the doors are open.

What if there are 6 at the stop 5 wearing masks and one not.

And multiple buses stopping at same stop...


Not stopping is easier said than done.... Drivers should be given clear instructions as to how they are expected to deal with these situations but I suspect they will just go out on Monday and multiple incidents will occur. Glad I'm not working next week.