Coronavirus and the effect on Public transport

p_haugh

The Phoenix Park Transport & Mobility Options Study is now available, with public consultation starting on the 29th. Glad to see them proposing a bus route through the park by rerouting part of the N2 to have it go through a section of it (they mention putting in an interem route if the introduction of the N2 gets delayed). Mad how the timeline for the main stuff is the guts of 3 years away still but at least its a start! Partly related to this thread, as the report was a result of the exxesive trtaffic over the summer when gates were closed.
https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1348732238981181447?s=20

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

I have 2 hours to get from one to the other....

Earlier on the journey I carried no more then 13, traffic was near zero, red traffic lights were basically the only pinch points as they've messed with these so very few gets through on the green.

This is all set up for normal times, we are coming on near a year now in exceptional circumstances and yet no real change.

I actually am not looking forward to the return of how it was because the road space is just not there, with all this covid bull and nonsense where road space is taken, bus lanes now in many cases where a bus just doesn't fit, poles in them to segregate cyclists but not many use this or they have a false sense of safety and they then in many cases pit themselves at risk by passing up the inside, yes not an issue normally but vehicles turning and indicated but cyclists continues on through, buses pulling in, no can't have that, much much more...

They want more 24 hour buses but yet sweet f all are actually working, more buses, more drivers needed, maintenance, cleaners etc....

What's all this costing and 90-95% reduction in numbers....


Ryanair for example when passenger numbers fall they pull services or cut down on amount of planes in the air..... NTA more buses..... Mind boggles

I agree with about half of what you are saying. But the only reason why buses are carrying so little atm is because of the Level 5 lockdown and the closure of schools. Now is not the time to go cutting buses as for the 6 months prior to 2021 buses were leaving people behind on a daily basis due to the reduced clacity to allow for social distancing. Once the schools reopen it will be back to "full" buses going past large numbers at stops one suspects.

The difference between Ryanair and DB is that Ryanair can fill it's planes to capacity but DB cannot which makes no sense at all I know but these are guidelines the government are setting out.

bk

punisher5112 wrote: »

Ryanair for example when passenger numbers fall they pull services or cut down on amount of planes in the air..... NTA more buses..... Mind boggles

Errr.... so you want to be laid off like so many Ryanair pilots, cabin crew and other staff have been?!!! :eek:

DB/GAI/Luas/IR are continuing to operate as they are due the NTA/government heavily subsidising them to do so.

Surely most drivers are happy to be fully employed and supported by the government through this pandemic, while so many of their colleagues in commercial operators have been laid off?

Personally I'm very happy that we continue to support and develop public transport through the pandemic, unlike the last recession when so much damage was done to it. It will leave us in a much better position once things start returning to normal.

noelfirl

punisher5112 wrote: »

They want more 24 hour buses but yet sweet f all are actually working, more buses, more drivers needed, maintenance, cleaners etc....

The people who might need those 24 hour buses may include among them people who could end up manning a crash cart at 3am in a hospital, who might not have either access to a private vehicle or the ability to pay for a taxi for every shift they do.

Continuing to push the maintenance, and indeed expansion, of a system of 24 hours bus routes is absolutely the correct thing to do.

stickymicky

bk wrote: »

Errr.... so you want to be laid off like so many Ryanair pilots, cabin crew and other staff have been?!!! :eek:

DB/GAI/Luas/IR are continuing to operate as they are due the NTA/government heavily subsidising them to do so.

Surely most drivers are happy to be fully employed and supported by the government through this pandemic, while so many of their colleagues in commercial operators have been laid off?

Personally I'm very happy that we continue to support and develop public transport through the pandemic, unlike the last recession when so much damage was done to it. It will leave us in a much better position once things start returning to normal.

There would be a STAMPEDE to the managers office if DB where offering the €350 a week to stay home safe and sound.
Everywhere is closed its not like you can go anywhere to spend money.
Depending on who you ask in donnybrook between 10-20% are currently out with covid.

As for bus bunching, running ahead of schedule, you are lucky to pick up the 17 on a full journey in or out of town, and at least half of these are lazy idiots going no more that a 5-10 minutes walking distance.
After 7pm the number drops of even more , 5-8 passengers per journey, this is the reality of the level of bus use currently.

Plus DB drivers are getting hit with a €1000+ covid tax bill this week, DB have been getting the €350 payment from government and now the drivers have to pay for it, lovely stuff, risking your health driving the bus and now getting to pay for the Privilege.

.anon.

Tickityboo wrote: »

I don't think having buses driving around at 20 to 30 kph causing obstruction to traffic behind or buses sitting at bus stops for minutes at a time blocking traffic and making other buses and traffic to make dangerous manoeuvres to get around them is being managed reasonably well!!

What is needed are official safe timing points to pull in and wait if you are ahead of schedule not the other dangerous nonsense that is going on.

Nobody is being made to make dangerous manoeuvres to get around buses. Dangerous drivers choose to do that themselves.

Every route has several safe areas where a bus can pull in and wait without obstructing other traffic.

GT89 wrote:

Explain to me how changing the operator of the service will change that as it will still be the same drivers and the same unions regardless of who's operating the service.

It changed it drastically when 10% of routes were handed over to a private operator.

GT89

.anon. wrote: »

It changed it drastically when 10% of routes were handed over to a private operator.

Because the private operators employees are under different t+cs to Dublin Bus. If all DB routes were to be put out to tender the current DB drivers would all transfer under TUPE and it would be the same contracts, same union agreements and same operating procedure unless another agreement with the drivers is reached.

Go-Ahead do not have this problem as every member of GAI staff has joined in full knowledge of the companies operating procedures. No GAI transferred from DB right?

.anon.

GT89 wrote: »

Because the private operators employees are under different t+cs to Dublin Bus. If all DB routes were to be put out to tender the current DB drivers would all transfer under TUPE and it would be the same contracts, same union agreements and same operating procedure unless another agreement with the drivers is reached.

Go-Ahead do not have this problem as every member of GAI staff has joined in full knowledge of the companies operating procedures. No GAI transferred from DB right?

If a number of routes were put out to tender again in the future, and were won by a private operator, drivers would most likely not transfer, just like they didn't the last time.

GT89

.anon. wrote: »

If a number of routes were put out to tender again in the future, and were won by a private operator, drivers would most likely not transfer, just like they didn't the last time.

Would depend on how many routes go out to tender. If all DB routes were to be put out to tender then obivously DB staff would have to transfer. It's not going to make sense to just keep putting routes out to tender then expanding the network by 10% everytime with DB staying the same size.

Also since drivers won't have to transfer under your suggestion there's no incentive for them to comply with even headway as DB would be staying the same size.

.anon.

GT89 wrote: »

Would depend on how many routes go out to tender. If all DB routes were to be put out to tender then obivously DB staff would have to transfer. It's not going to make sense to just keep putting routes out to tender then expanding the network by 10% everytime with DB staying the same size.

Also since drivers won't have to transfer under your suggestion there's no incentive for them to comply with even headway as DB would be staying the same size.

The long-term race to the bottom, as far as wages are concerned, should be the incentive.

ongarboy

Are some commuter stations closed due to the latest COVID restrictions? I walked past Hansfield station this afternoon and both entrance sliding doors were locked. Oddly, a train passed and stopped on the platform below while I was there but no one alighted. They'd potentially have been locked in if they did.

I heard this happened one morning in Docklands when the keyholder never showed up and all the commuters of the first arriving train from M3 Parkway were locked in briefly until IR were alerted!

punisher5112

bk wrote: »

Errr.... so you want to be laid off like so many Ryanair pilots, cabin crew and other staff have been?!!! :eek:

DB/GAI/Luas/IR are continuing to operate as they are due the NTA/government heavily subsidising them to do so.

Surely most drivers are happy to be fully employed and supported by the government through this pandemic, while so many of their colleagues in commercial operators have been laid off?

Personally I'm very happy that we continue to support and develop public transport through the pandemic, unlike the last recession when so much damage was done to it. It will leave us in a much better position once things start returning to normal.

Where did I say any of that...

Why is it because I'm a Driver and I give my opinion or facts or just how it is that I get attacked for it.


In no way do I think that's good what Ryanair has done.

I'm putting myself and family at risk daily by coming to work and have done so throughout the whole pandemic.

Numbers I've heard now are high for close contacts and driver's sent home.

bk

.anon. wrote: »

The long-term race to the bottom, as far as wages are concerned, should be the incentive.

From a regulators perspective, I honestly believe it is more about not putting all your eggs in one basket.

GAI's entry into the market and their large investment has certainly put a shot across the bow of DB/BE and reminded them that they no longer have a monopoly and there are alternatives.

And in fairness to DB (I don't use BE enough to say) there has been a very marked improvement in the quality of their services, since GAI entered the market from what I've seen. Much better and almost complete use of the rear door, etc.

A bit of healthy competition can be good for all companies and employees involved IMO.

punisher5112

bk wrote: »

From a regulators perspective, I honestly believe it is more about not putting all your eggs in one basket.

GAI's entry into the market and their large investment has certainly put a shot across the bow of DB/BE and reminded them that they no longer have a monopoly and there are alternatives.

And in fairness to DB (I don't use BE enough to say) there has been a very marked improvement in the quality of their services, since GAI entered the market from what I've seen. Much better and almost complete use of the rear door, etc.

A bit of healthy competition can be good for all companies and employees involved IMO.

GAI investment???

They got paid a huge some of money, they won't be doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, they're only interested in the stake holders and turning a profit.

Rear door usage had absolutely zero to do with GAI.
Also improved services were a given as soon as they took up, the times on timetable were all improvement but not all worked out that way.

OscarMIlde

stickymicky wrote: »

As for bus bunching, running ahead of schedule, you are lucky to pick up the 17 on a full journey in or out of town, and at least half of these are lazy idiots going no more that a 5-10 minutes walking distance.
After 7pm the number drops of even more , 5-8 passengers per journey, this is the reality of the level of bus use currently.
.

The effects of this will be route dependent. Some routes are fairly near the city centre and serviced frequently even on a Saturday service. Outer commuter services are less adequately served and more likely to be trafficked with essential travel under level 5. I counted the number of passengers on my 66x as I got off at Heuston this morning; 17 passengers including me. That's a full bus at 25% capacity and the majority got on in Leixlip or Maynooth.

If you put on a Saturday service Leixlip, Celbridge, and Maynooth will lose a total of 12 x buses in the morning and 10 in the evening. That much of a reduction will definitely leave essential workers from those areas stranded. This will be heightened on the way home from work when commuters from Chapelizod, Palmerstown, and Lucan will also be boarding the 66/66a/66b/67 buses.

bk

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why is it because I'm a Driver and I give my opinion or facts or just how it is that I get attacked for it.

What? How am I attacking you or any driver?!

You and any drivers opinion is very much welcome here. This forum would be useless without the excellent input of yourself and other folks working in the industry.

But this is a discussion forum, if you give an opinion, don't be surprised if others question it or disagree, that is what civil discussion is all about. Different people with different experiences and views discussing things and sometimes disagreeing, but disagreement is not attacking you!

d51984

11 yes 11 drivers out with Covid from Clontarf depo. Thats just Clontarf, imagine the figures from other depos.

I was on lates on the 27s last night, the amount of scum in groups was unreal. Im just sailing by not a hope im stopping.

bk

d51984 wrote: »

11 yes 11 drivers out with Covid from Clontarf depo. Thats just Clontarf, imagine the figures from other depos.

I was on lates on the 27s last night, the amount of scum in groups was unreal. Im just sailing by not a hope im stopping.

That is shocking. If so many drivers are getting sick, then clearly something isn't working and it needs to be fixed.

How do you guys think drivers are getting it? In the bus, in the depot or at home/community?

I know not everyone will agree, but I can't blame you for looking after yourself and skipping groups like that.

GT89

d51984 wrote: »

11 yes 11 drivers out with Covid from Clontarf depo. Thats just Clontarf, imagine the figures from other depos.

I was on lates on the 27s last night, the amount of scum in groups was unreal. Im just sailing by not a hope im stopping.

A lot of people are testing positive but back in work after 10 days. A lot of people where I work are testing positive and are fine have all have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. Also a lot are testing positive due to family members testing positive so not getting it in work.

GT89

OscarMIlde wrote: »

The effects of this will be route dependent. Some routes are fairly near the city centre and serviced frequently even on a Saturday service. Outer commuter services are less adequately served and more likely to be trafficked with essential travel under level 5. I counted the number of passengers on my 66x as I got off at Heuston this morning; 17 passengers including me. That's a full bus at 25% capacity and the majority got on in Leixlip or Maynooth.

If you put on a Saturday service Leixlip, Celbridge, and Maynooth will lose a total of 12 x buses in the morning and 10 in the evening. That much of a reduction will definitely leave essential workers from those areas stranded. This will be heightened on the way home from work when commuters from Chapelizod, Palmerstown, and Lucan will also be boarding the 66/66a/66b/67 buses.

I thought the limit was 23 now for 25% capacity not 17 anymore. Also I thought last time they went to Saturday timetables they added extra buses where nessecary and some of the Xpressos continued to run.

OscarMIlde

GT89 wrote: »

I thought the limit was 23 now for 25% capacity not 17 anymore. Also I thought last time they went to Saturday timetables they added extra buses where nessecary and some of the Xpressos continued to run.

Not that I was aware of. Didn't see any mention of that on the Dublin bus website. I ended up waiting well over an hour to get on a bus home in -2C when they ran a Saturday service between Christmas and New Year. There was at least one 67 that never came at all that evening.

GT89

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Not that I was aware of. Didn't see any mention of that on the Dublin bus website. I ended up waiting well over an hour to get on a bus home in -2C when they ran a Saturday service between Christmas and New Year. There was at least one 67 that never came at all that evening.

I was referring to the lockdown in Mar/Apr/May

OscarMIlde

GT89 wrote: »

I was referring to the lockdown in Mar/Apr/May

The x buses were all operational then, as far as I was aware a full mon-friday schedule was run throughout that lockdown. I was discussing the 'plan to go to a Saturday service on Dublin bus from Monday 18th' that was stated here. There seems to be no mention of it on the Dublin bus website so maybe it's just scaremongering and I've jumped the gun. If so I apologise.

GT89

OscarMIlde wrote: »

The x buses were all operational then, as far as I was aware a full mon-friday schedule was run throughout that lockdown. I was discussing the 'plan to go to a Saturday service on Dublin bus from Monday 18th' that was stated here. There seems to be no mention of it on the Dublin bus website so maybe it's just scaremongering and I've jumped the gun. If so I apologise.

No it was a Saturday service with extra departures

the boss of me

Someone in authority should really explain even headway and virtual schedules to the Dublin Bus Twitter account operator 🙄

the boss of me

And here's another one, both of these from today. Seems even headway is not as popular with the customer as the NTA believe.

.anon.

the boss of me wrote: »

And here's another one, both of these from today. Seems even headway is not as popular with the customer as the NTA believe.

They receive far more complaints about buses arriving early.

the boss of me

So what's a driver to do. In either case they're going to be reported to the inspector : /
If drivers are to maintain even headway perhaps its time for a public information campaign by Dublin Bus and a bit of back up by their Twitter account operator.

StreetLight

So drivers get reported to inspectors if they are early, trying to keep to time, or late.
That guy in charge of the Dublin Bus Twitter account seems to take great delight in pandering to any moaner with a grievance.

.anon.

the boss of me wrote: »

So what's a driver to do. In either case they're going to be reported to the inspector : /
If drivers are to maintain even headway perhaps its time for a public information campaign by Dublin Bus and a bit of back up by their Twitter account operator.

I'm not convinced that any complaint posted on Twitter gets reported to anyone. It's just a handy way of allowing customers to vent and then get on with their day.

But yes, a public information campaign (including onboard announcements) is needed. Also, the fact that buses are so much quicker when there's no traffic really highlights the sheer extent to which private cars hamper the delivery of efficient public transport. Buses need to be given a lot more priority over other traffic.

punisher5112

I'm not paid enough to get all the abuse....

They have a complaints department, speak or bring it up with them....

Bus connect should have been brought in sooner..
Actually it could well have started under the covid seen as all the other measures were such as these temporary but permanent changes to roads, paths.

Midnight_EG

Passengers never complain when you're moving quickly... Funny how it works eh

punisher5112

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Passengers never complain when you're moving quickly... Funny how it works eh

They only see what they want to see.

The past near a year has been strange, less traffic, less people apart from when opened again it was nuts, traffic system set to go red so at different times traffic was nuts but gone back quiet again.

People in Ireland aren't happy unless they're moaning and it goes for non Irish too, it's like it's rubbed onto them or something

weldoninhio

punisher5112 wrote: »

They only see what they want to see.

The past near a year has been strange, less traffic, less people apart from when opened again it was nuts, traffic system set to go red so at different times traffic was nuts but gone back quiet again.

People in Ireland aren't happy unless they're moaning and it goes for non Irish too, it's like it's rubbed onto them or something

Unfortunately passengers aren't psychic. If someone gets a bus at 8am every morning and then it starts arriving at 7:45, you're late for work.

If i'm in Rush, surely it's not beyond the realms of technology that I should be able to set an alarm to ping when the bus is leaving Skerries.

Zebra3

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Passengers never complain when you're moving quickly... Funny how it works eh

Why would they?

the boss of me

weldoninhio wrote: »

Unfortunately passengers aren't psychic. If someone gets a bus at 8am every morning and then it starts arriving at 7:45, you're late for work.

If i'm in Rush, surely it's not beyond the realms of technology that I should be able to set an alarm to ping when the bus is leaving Skerries.

No need to be psychic, if you can read a timetable you know when the bus starts it's journey. Surely you know how long it takes to drive from Skerries to Rush.?

GT89

.anon. wrote: »

I'm not convinced that any complaint posted on Twitter gets reported to anyone. It's just a handy way of allowing customers to vent and then get on with their day.

But yes, a public information campaign (including onboard announcements) is needed. Also, the fact that buses are so much quicker when there's no traffic really highlights the sheer extent to which private cars hamper the delivery of efficient public transport. Buses need to be given a lot more priority over other traffic.

I notice they always refer Twitter complaints to the official complaint form which suggests you may be right

dashcamdanny

Let be honest here. When they say it has been reported to the inspector on duty, that means the report in now in the bottom of a waste paper bin.

Especially when its a serial moan bag on twitter.

I have apparently been reported to inspector on twitter a couple of times. I use the word apparently. No inspector ever contacted me about anything. I just know it was me they where reporting.

Both time pure lies ..

Heads buried in their phones instead of putting an arm out to stop you.

punisher5112

Nothing a Driver needs more then a bogus complaint or even better one while they're still aboard and on the tweet thing a ma bobby

weldoninhio

the boss of me wrote: »

No need to be psychic, if you can read a timetable you know when the bus starts it's journey. Surely you know how long it takes to drive from Skerries to Rush.?

I do, I leave my house at the time it leaves Skerries. Takes me 4 minutes to get to the stop, straight road so I can see the main road the entire time. Unfortunately, GAI sometimes use turbo powered buses, or leave Skerries early. Which is where an app letting me know it’s served a stop would come in handy.

punisher5112

weldoninhio wrote: »

I do, I leave my house at the time it leaves Skerries. Takes me 4 minutes to get to the stop, straight road so I can see the main road the entire time. Unfortunately, GAI sometimes use turbo powered buses, or leave Skerries early. Which is where an app letting me know it’s served a stop would come in handy.

That could be due to the bus actually been late or all sorts.

weldoninhio

punisher5112 wrote: »

That could be due to the bus actually been late or all sorts.

straight road so I can see the main road the entire time

I've been walking up the road and seen it breeze by, 2 minutes after it's due to have left Skerries, which is about 10-15 mins away, depending on passengers and traffic.

punisher5112

weldoninhio wrote: »

straight road so I can see the main road the entire time

I've been walking up the road and seen it breeze by, 2 minutes after it's due to have left Skerries, which is about 10-15 mins away, depending on passengers and traffic.

But as with covid buses are arriving very early so some will leave late.

Operating reason sometimes means they may leave a few minutes early say to close gaps if one was missing.

If you are that close to the termini then there really is no reason for you to be missing them and that's on you if you walk off.

There is the rtpi and apps to keep eye on estimate of arrival.

GT89

Confirmed Dublin Bus are moving to an enhanced Saturday Schedule from 18th January until further notice. There will be extra departures on certain routes.
https://www.dublinbus.ie/DublinBus-Mobile/News/?depth=1&srcid=8600

OscarMIlde

GT89 wrote: »

Confirmed Dublin Bus are moving to an enhanced Saturday Schedule from 18th January until further notice. There will be extra departures on certain routes.
https://www.dublinbus.ie/DublinBus-Mobile/News/?depth=1&srcid=8600

A reduction of the usual x services which is understandable given reported staff illness levels. A bit worrying that all mine depart from UCD with none from the city centre. Will make it more difficult for those further up route to catch a bus if there are capacity issues.

GT89

OscarMIlde wrote: »

A reduction of the usual x services which is understandable given reported staff illness levels. A bit worrying that all mine depart from UCD with none from the city centre. Will make it more difficult for those further up route to catch a bus if there are capacity issues.

The thing is now they're going to Saturday times there will be more spare buses and drivers that can be deployed to provide extra capacity if there are issues. I think the drivers are supposed to radio in if they're bus reaches capacity and an extra bus can be deployed should it be available. Saturday times mean extra buses will be available.

weldoninhio

punisher5112 wrote: »

But as with covid buses are arriving very early so some will leave late.

Operating reason sometimes means they may leave a few minutes early say to close gaps if one was missing.

If you are that close to the termini then there really is no reason for you to be missing them and that's on you if you walk off.

There is the rtpi and apps to keep eye on estimate of arrival.

This has been common since GAI took over the route. With and without Covid. Laughable to suggest it’s my fault for missing a bus that’s leaving it’s first stop ten minutes before it’s scheduled to.

punisher5112

weldoninhio wrote: »

This has been common since GAI took over the route. With and without Covid. Laughable to suggest it’s my fault for missing a bus that’s leaving it’s first stop ten minutes before it’s scheduled to.

I wasn't saying that, I was just answering to why I believe it may be happening.
They were definitely having issues due to drivers having to do different routes and stick in traffic.

Heard lately they have even been throwing passengers off as they can go on to get back on time at the other terminus.
Not sure if true or not but that isn't on at all.

Have you contacted GAI and the nta.
If not do so and don't bother on twitter, contact the CEO of each.
NTA is Anne Graham

OscarMIlde

GT89 wrote: »

The thing is now they're going to Saturday times there will be more spare buses and drivers that can be deployed to provide extra capacity if there are issues. I think the drivers are supposed to radio in if they're bus reaches capacity and an extra bus can be deployed should it be available. Saturday times mean extra buses will be available.

That's great to hear, thank you. Also, just wanted to say the service has been great this year. Any issues I've had related to passengers thinking it was ok to travel by bus for socialising/shopping when at 25% capacity, and I blame them not the drivers.

.anon.

punisher5112 wrote: »

I wasn't saying that, I was just answering to why I believe it may be happening.
They were definitely having issues due to drivers having to do different routes and stick in traffic.

In the lead-up to Christmas, when every idiot in the country was out buying tat and spreading Covid19, they were experiencing huge issues with traffic on one route having a knock-on effect on whichever route the driver was supposed to be switching to afterwards (often within as little as seven minutes of arriving at the terminus). Their tight turnaround times only work when traffic is light - and when the driver doesn't want to exercise his/her right to go to the bathroom between trips. Their rosters and duties are designed to squeeze as much as they can from the smallest possible number of buses and drivers.

And one poorly-thought-out feature of their contract with the NTA is that any bus more than 5 minutes and 59 seconds late might as well not be running at all. So the controller curtails part (or all) of the next trip, telling the driver to 'go dead' (Brit term for 'go special') to a certain point and begin from there.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Heard lately they have even been throwing passengers off as they can go on to get back on time at the other terminus.
Not sure if true or not but that isn't on at all.

When passenger numbers allow, they occasionally transfer passengers from a bus that's running late onto the next one, if they're running close together. It's not ideal, but Dublin Bus used to do the same (I don't know if they still do). It certainly wouldn't be company policy to just throw passengers off unless there was another bus to throw them onto.