Coronavirus and the effect on Public transport

bk

I have to say, a very strange article in the IT and I fail to see what they are getting at.

All of us here are well aware that passengers numbers and thus fares have taken a massive drop in the past year. That Dublin Bus would most likely have gone bankrupt by now if it wasn't for the government via the NTA stepping in and greatly increasing the PSO subsidy to make up for the drop in fares.

There doesn't seem to be any suggestion that the government won't continue this level of subsidy for now.

I suppose there could be a danger of them stopping the increased subsidy too soon, before passenger numbers and fares return to normal. Ideally the subsidy should be reduced in line with increasing of fares.

It might be the case that passenger numbers never quiet return to pre-covid levels if people continue to WFH, etc. In which case the network, frequencies, capacity, fares and subsidy levels should be reviewed and revised to any new reality.

Though having said that, I can't see it being massively different then pre-covid, maybe 10% less or something, take the pressure off over-packed peak time buses, but not needing major cuts or anything like that. I think it would be a mistake to rush in cuts and changes until the post covid levels and patterns have really been seen.

GT89

bk wrote: »

I have to say, a very strange article in the IT and I fail to see what they are getting at.

All of us here are well aware that passengers numbers and thus fares have taken a massive drop in the past year. That Dublin Bus would most likely have gone bankrupt by now if it wasn't for the government via the NTA stepping in and greatly increasing the PSO subsidy to make up for the drop in fares.

There doesn't seem to be any suggestion that the government won't continue this level of subsidy for now.

I suppose there could be a danger of them stopping the increased subsidy too soon, before passenger numbers and fares return to normal. Ideally the subsidy should be reduced in line with increasing of fares.

It might be the case that passenger numbers never quiet return to pre-covid levels if people continue to WFH, etc. In which case the network, frequencies, capacity, fares and subsidy levels should be reviewed and revised to any new reality.

Though having said that, I can't see it being massively different then pre-covid, maybe 10% less or something, take the pressure off over-packed peak time buses, but not needing major cuts or anything like that. I think it would be a mistake to rush in cuts and changes until the post covid levels and patterns have really been seen.

I think now could be the time the government increase the levels of subsidy to European norms. Let's face it public transport has ever gotten the same level of subsidy in Ireland as in most other EU countries and has always more been about keeping minimum levels of service to certain areas not boosting frequency or capacity on busy corridors.

We've never really subsidised services to get a benefit from them more so for politicians to win votes. We got a new bus route looks more attractive than we increased the frequency and improved the reliability of an existing route is more attractive for winning votes.

Left wing parties banging the drum about subsidy being the lowest in Europe isn't helpful either as their claims are misleading and it's usually only used as a trojan horse to be against something like bus connects or changes to routes.

It doesn't appear to be exclusive to Ireland either I've read stories from the UK about stuff like TFL being on the cusp of going out of business. Seems like real scaremongering nonsense no city in the Western world has ever stopped funding public transport completely that I am aware of.

L1011

Still a Saturday service will all schools back, and Irish Rails massive expansion to cope is one r/t to Waterford added back from the weekday timetable.

Parroting that the cut is following Government advice when that is not even vaguely true - Government advice is to limit capacity of your running services not reduce capacity!

punisher5112

L1011 wrote: »

Still a Saturday service will all schools back, and Irish Rails massive expansion to cope is one r/t to Waterford added back from the weekday timetable.

Parroting that the cut is following Government advice when that is not even vaguely true - Government advice is to limit capacity of your running services not reduce capacity!

I wouldn't be trying to travel unless completely necessary it's a sh1t show out there....

GT89

L1011 wrote: »

Still a Saturday service will all schools back, and Irish Rails massive expansion to cope is one r/t to Waterford added back from the weekday timetable.

Parroting that the cut is following Government advice when that is not even vaguely true - Government advice is to limit capacity of your running services not reduce capacity!

Blame the NTA they're the ones calling the shots not Irish Rail or Dublin Bus

L1011

I remain on the essential worker list (because I haven't changed jobs), but I would very much prefer not to have to drive in, with increasing road traffic

But I'm not going to give up my filtered air conditioned box to be squashed in to an under-capacity train. During the December L3 there was plenty of space on weekday service trains.

GT89

L1011 wrote: »

I remain on the essential worker list (because I haven't changed jobs), but I would very much prefer not to have to drive in, with increasing road traffic

But I'm not going to give up my filtered air conditioned box to be squashed in to an under-capacity train. During the December L3 there was plenty of space on weekday service trains.

Money is probably becoming an issue now me thinks. The government aren't giving the NTA and operators the same amount of funding they were I'm guessing I can't see any other reason why they are not going back to M-F timetables now at this stage.

Jamie2k9

L1011 wrote: »

Still a Saturday service will all schools back, and Irish Rails massive expansion to cope is one r/t to Waterford added back from the weekday timetable.

Parroting that the cut is following Government advice when that is not even vaguely true - Government advice is to limit capacity of your running services not reduce capacity!

They resumed that last Wednesday, got unwanted attention on twitter on BH Monday. Reactive not proactive as usual...

https://twitter.com/MarkymarkDaly/status/1379133880184270849

They appear to be adding capacity from tomorrow on DART/Commuter

https://www.newstalk.com/news/absolutely-wedged-public-transport-users-react-as-schools-re-open-1178807

L1011

This mornings increased capacity appears to be a 29k in lieu of a four car 22k. So a notional increase in capacity only and torture for those who came from Sligo..

May be due to an unconnected failure though

Zebra3

Rang DB earlier about buses going past and not picking up customers.

Guy I spoke to said they’re meeting the NTA on Friday and asking to return to Mon-Fri service from Monday coming.

GT89

Zebra3 wrote: »

Rang DB earlier about buses going past and not picking up customers.

Guy I spoke to said they’re meeting the NTA on Friday and asking to return to Mon-Fri service from Monday coming.

About time

BonnieSituation

Real time back working on the 69 citybound today.

punisher5112

Zebra3 wrote: »

Rang DB earlier about buses going past and not picking up customers.

Guy I spoke to said they’re meeting the NTA on Friday and asking to return to Mon-Fri service from Monday coming.

No point contact db ye need to be having it out with ntas Anne Graham.....

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

No point contact db ye need to be having it out with ntas Anne Graham.....

Pointless don't you know the NTA know better than the people who actually use and work on the service day in out

Kyleboy

Zebra3 wrote: »

Rang DB earlier about buses going past and not picking up customers.

Guy I spoke to said they’re meeting the NTA on Friday and asking to return to Mon-Fri service from Monday coming.

The 25%capacity is the biggest issue, buses will still be going past

L1011

punisher5112 wrote: »

No point contact db ye need to be having it out with ntas Anne Graham.....

NTA do not take direct consumer contact except in case of unresolved complaints. Its the operators responsibility to do so.

That said, I can probably reference the times I've used the black hole of a complaints form Irish Rail offer as reason to escalate to them.

GT89

Kyleboy wrote: »

The 25%capacity is the biggest issue, buses will still be going past

Most other cities in Europe it's 50% capacity. The UK is 50% and has been since the summer with no changes. I'm not sure why Ireland is any different but hey I suppose we have the toughest restrictions in Europe. Is the capacity on DB 23 or 17 atm? I've seen conficting information.

Kyleboy

GT89 wrote: »

Most other cities in Europe it's 50% capacity. The UK is 50% and has been since the summer with no changes. I'm not sure why Ireland is any different but hey I suppose we have the toughest restrictions in Europe. Is the capacity on DB 23 or 17 atm? I've seen conficting information.

17, i think it's 50%at phase 3 unless they decide to change it.

GT89

Kyleboy wrote: »

17, i think it's 50%at phase 3 unless they decide to change it.

How come this says 23 for level 5 here has it been changed or something?
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=537126&d=1608839911

Kyleboy

GT89 wrote: »

How come this says 23 for level 5 here has it been changed or something?
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=537126&d=1608839911

There was no agreement for that, it needs to be changed to 50% asap because far more people are on the move now.

dashcamdanny

Kyleboy wrote: »

There was no agreement for that, it needs to be changed to 50% asap because far more people are on the move now.

Expect unions kick off about vaccines for drivers if they try and move it to 50%.

And rightly so.

Kyleboy

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Expect unions kick off about vaccines for drivers if they try and move it to 50%.

And rightly so.

My reading of it is they not going to allow over 50 % until all driver's are vaccinated.

dashcamdanny

Kyleboy wrote: »

My reading of it is they not going to allow over 50 % until all driver's are vaccinated.

Yes. You are right..

There is a lot of canteen talk about it. All rumors so far.

I think its the NBRU who are saying they will not co-operate with over 50% without the vaccination of its drivers.

Kyleboy

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Yes. You are right..

There is a lot of canteen talk about it. All rumors so far.

I think its the NBRU who are saying they will not co-operate with over 50% without the vaccination of its drivers.

Can't beat a good rumour,i find the training school just as bad 😂

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

Rang DB earlier about buses going past and not picking up customers.

Guy I spoke to said they’re meeting the NTA on Friday and asking to return to Mon-Fri service from Monday coming.

Anyone hear anything?

Kyleboy

Zebra3 wrote: »

Anyone hear anything?

No, didn't hear anything, but i do know that they have to give 7 days notice, something to do with changing the work rosters.

Jamie2k9

Kyleboy wrote: »

No, didn't hear anything, but i do know that they have to give 7 days notice, something to do with changing the work rosters.

I would expect 4th May for full service on the assumption economy opens up as indicated.

L1011

Irish Rail are telling local reps the 4th now.

ax586

L1011 wrote: »

Irish Rail are telling local reps the 4th now.

Same as DB and DB,NTA are still waiting on a decision to go back to 50%.

L1011

Train significantly busier again today. The things that have reopened today will have added a few thousand extra staff needing to get to work and still no move to even extend the shortened trains

ax586

As we know bus service's are going back Monday to Friday from next Tuesday but capacity is staying at 25%.

stephenjmcd

ax586 wrote: »

As we know bus service's are going back Monday to Friday from next Tuesday but capacity is staying at 25%.

Will all depend on government announcement this week. A move out of L5 changes capacity

ax586

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Will all depend on government announcement this week. A move out of L5 changes capacity

Internal notice that came out today in DB saying capacity staying at 25%

dublinman1990

Link here on Dublin Bus website. Capacity is staying at 25%.

Revisions to some Dublin Bus timetables will also take effect from next Tuesday.

The 31d, 42d, 51x, 53a, 70d and 90 won't be operating from Tuesday.

https://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Update-on-Dublin-Bus-Services-from-4-May/

Tickityboo

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Will all depend on government announcement this week. A move out of L5 changes capacity

Only when we move to level 3 will capacity change to 50%

punisher5112

I see nta is cutting funding so Expressway services will be getting a cut next month, certain runs cancelled and returns on that run too.

stephenjmcd

10th 50%

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1387511025470164993?s=19

L1011

Seven car train today, so it actually is 25% loaded rather than nearer to fifty. Will be a strange experience seeing Docklands again this evening!

GT89

Public transport back to full capacity in the UK today or at least in London. Wonder how long until Ireland follows suit

thenightman

GT89 wrote: »

Public transport back to full capacity in the UK today or at least in London. Wonder how long until Ireland follows suit

When we reach the level of vaccinations UK has I would have thought.


50% seems to be fine at peak times at the moment here anyway. I've yet to be left behind after work since the increase from 25%, thankfully!

Jamie2k9

Anyone know the deal with Bus Eireann, the level of cancellations is disgraceful across certain regions. Expressway licenses should be examined if it continues. Prioritizing PSO over commercial it appears.

If its Covid absenteeism I understand but I suspect its not when they are able to take on new work for NTA at the expense of existing operations.

punisher5112

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Anyone know the deal with Bus Eireann, the level of cancellations is disgraceful across certain regions. Expressway licenses should be examined if it continues. Prioritizing PSO over commercial it appears.

If its Covid absenteeism I understand but I suspect its not when they are able to take on new work for NTA at the expense of existing operations.

The nta has cut funding.

The expressway is their own baby so needs to make money to be viable to run....

dublinman1990

The 50% capacity limit on Public Transport will be lifted from August 5th.

dublinman1990

Non-essential international travel will return on July 19th. I wonder how that will go from that date as PT capacity will still be at 50% on that date. I'll suspect demand for buses & taxis could be very tight for other users who will be using public transport to get to work while holidaymakers are going to ports & airports from July 19th.

devnull

On e-tenders now the contract amounts for temporary support of commercial bus routes in the state can be seen.

They are as follows (rounded to nearest 100k)
Expressway by Bus Eireann - €27.4M
Dublin Coach - €9.4m
JJ Kavanagh (including Avalen and Kenneallys) - €5.8m
Matthews - €4.1m
CityLink - €4.1m
Wexford Bus - €3.3m
GoBus - €3.0m
Aircoach - €2.3m
Eirebus - €2.1m
Collins Coaches - €1.3m
McGinleys - €900k
Bus Feda - €700k
Kearns - €700k
City Direct - €600k

These contracts are believed to have commenced late last year, with the values relating to a period of six months but had optional extensions of two further periods of 3 months. It's not known if any of these were triggered.

Jamie2k9

devnull wrote: »

On e-tenders now the contract amounts for temporary support of commercial bus routes in the state can be seen.

They are as follows (rounded to nearest 100k)
Expressway by Bus Eireann - €27.4M
Dublin Coach - €9.4m
JJ Kavanagh (including Avalen and Kenneallys) - €5.8m
Matthews - €4.1m
CityLink - €4.1m
Wexford Bus - €3.3m
GoBus - €3.0m
Aircoach - €2.3m
Eirebus - €2.1m
Collins Coaches - €1.3m
McGinleys - €900k
Bus Feda - €700k
Kearns - €700k
City Direct - €600k

These contracts are believed to have commenced late last year, with the values relating to a period of six months but had optional extensions of two further periods of 3 months. It's not known if any of these were triggered.

Any opinion on why DublinCoach are getting this level of funding. Seems excessive but local airport services might be a factor.

The nta has cut funding.

The expressway is their own baby so needs to make money to be viable to run....

Missed this reply but once 50% returned to PT I would have expected a funding cut as outside peak days for a lot of Intercity services 50% or below is standard so the financial loss to companies is significantly less.
____

CIE 2020 results.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ci%C3%A9-losses-quadruple-to-top-66m-as-it-warns-over-impact-of-travel-curbs-1.4583119

Losses at the State-owned parent of Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus and Irish Rail more than quadrupled last year to €66.86 million from €14.41 million in 2019

Public service obligation payments totalling €418.6 million from the Government bolstered revenues last year. The equivalent figure in 2019 was €184.2 million.

Overall State funding for the group increased to €638 million last year from €309 million in 2019, partly as a result of Covid wage subsidies and other pandemic supports.

Are those figures separate from the wage subsidy?

devnull

Deleted User wrote: »

Are those figures separate from the wage subsidy?

They reflect the temporary financial support provided by the state to those operators in order to allow them to continue to operate during severe adverse trading conditions due to COVID-19 and related measures.

dublinman1990

I just seen on Google Maps that the 15:00 departure for the 46A from Dún Laoghaire to Phoenix Park was cancelled. The next one at Dùn Laoghaire left on time at 15:08.

GT89

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I just seen on Google Maps that the 15:00 departure for the 46A from Dún Laoghaire to Phoenix Park was cancelled. The next one at Dùn Laoghaire left on time at 15:08.

Hardly that rare an occurrence and what's that got to do with covid buses get cancelled for various reasons before and after covid 19