The elders - a megathread

Drumpot

I’ve gotten my mum watching Dr John on YouTube. He’s retired and older people may be able to relate to his manner. But I called around to her weeks ago with supplies and started prepping her so she wasn’t completely surprised with this week. It might take some parents awhile to get this I’m afraid.

Also we told our children that we are self isolating to protect their grandparents. We haven’t scared them, in fact part of the reason we told them that was so they wouldn’t be scared themselves. You could tell your parents that you told the told children this and maybe FaceTime them and have the grandkids guilt your folks into staying in doors. Might not work but if shouting isn’t working maybe guilt trip
Might...

Recliner

My Dad (88) was saying to me today on the phone that he hadn't been out yet today. He couldn't grasp that he shouldn't be out at all.
My mother in law (82) couldn't understand why one of her sons hadn't brought his children out to visit considering they were off school.
Both intelligent people, who would religiously watch the news.
My MIL lives in a house with a person who is seriously immunocompromised and she's still not getting it.
I don't know what else we can do to impress on them how serious this is.

YFlyer

This is where the HSE should tell where positive virus diagnosis are.

TravelTiger

I'm in a similar boat to OP. My excuse of a sister is still using my parents as her childminders 3 days a week while she does her part time job.

I can feel a big family row brewing. If I take her to task she'll complain to the parents who'll then turn on me because all three can't see the seriousness of this.

I know how it'll play out and it's me getting told to mind my own business by all three and one or more not speaking to me for a good while.

I'm very tempted to get a one way ticket out of the country to be honest. To a place with no closed borders yet and who have been doing an amazing job of containment. I also have a friend in the same area there for chats.

Mark my words. This b@stard of disease will cause splits in Irish families at a time when we should be all there for each other.

YFlyer

Feel your pain Tiger.

My brother is currently back from London and living with my father. Haven't talked to him in awhile but have an idea how he'll think about the virus. Spent years smoking daily weed. Had a house but didn't pay mortgage for years. Death strangle he said. Lost the house. Was David Icke freak and Freeman on the Land fanboy. Ssid the world will end in less than 10 years. Tiring

freshpopcorn

Just from what I can see a lot of elderly people think they are fine to out shopping,etc once they don't have any major issues going on. The shops are even giving them priority shopping hours now and they believe everything is fine.
These also the issue as well that a lot of them don't like being bossed around by their kids and they may dig there heals even more.(Going by my father).

Noo

The video of the Italian obituaries is very confronting....along with the reality that most of those elderly people died alone in hospital with no family around or no family able to bury them. As a nation where death and funerals are such a big occasion, something like that might hit home.

Another is that story if the poor Italian guy who had to be quarantined with his dead sister because no funeral home would take her. Then when one finally did, no family were able to go to the funeral for the obvious reasons. Heartbreaking stuff.

Claw Hammer

Darc19 wrote: »

Mid 60s is not elderly,

Mid 60's is well past middle age, so is elderly.

Claw Hammer

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'm in the same boat. I think it's starting to get through now but I don't know how much. Pair of them travelled over to England this weekend gone for a party.

I don't know why so many people of that generation seem to think it's all grand while so many of mine (millennials) are scared sh*tless. Maybe because we graduated into a massive recession, have never had a hope of buying property and all that stuff...my parents seem to have a faith in the government and in the 'system' that was knocked out of me long before I turned 25. I feel like I need to look out for myself because no-one else will, and they just don't seem to feel that way.

My dad was asking my aunt why she doesn't just head to Italy on her holiday next month if the restrictions are listed, because sure, her EHIC would cover her if she needed hospital treatment...at a time when dozens of Italians are being left to die because they haven't enough beds and ventilators for them all!

I was just speechless....how can people be this clueless??!!

Many old people did not learn science at school and are quite clueless about hygiene and infection. Many older ones lived through the TB and Polio epidemics of the 1950s. They are also , at their age, very much creatures of habit. At the rate this is going they won't even have a priest to bless them when they die, let alone have a funeral.

ThewhiteJesus

Your parents have lived longer than you, it’s their choice show them respect, distance yourself if need be

Charles Babbage

On the grandchidren, it depends on who else they mingle with. While at school they were clearly dangerous, but if during this period they only play with their cousins and everyone has the same grandparent then it is a closed loop to a large extent. But you have to think about this, which is where the problem seems to arise for some people.

If you meet someone then you are meeting everyone they met in the last week.

Charles Babbage

Irish Steve wrote: »

It's not just Irish Parents that are a nightmare, Step Father is 90, Mother is 95, they don't watch TV news much, and their news comes from 2 or 3 day old copies of the Daily Mail that a neighbour drops in, and brutally, there's not much news in the Mail, other than scandal, soaps misdeeds, and the like, so at the moment, despite trying hard to persuade them to change their habits, the attitude is they are still going to go to 3 or 4 supermarkets, and get a few bits in each, rather than order on line and have it delivered, they're going to garden centres, coffee shops and the like, and carrying on as if there's nothing happening around them. They've even offered to drop a neighbour to the hospital for an appointment in a few days time, assuming it doesn't get cancelled, which seems to me to be highly dangerous.

My brother and his wife went in today to try and get through to them that they are probably facing a 3 or 4 month isolation under current UK thinking, but even that didn't make an impression.

The fact that we're half a day's travel away under normal circumstances, and for the next while probably 18 hours away makes it hard, the biggest concern is that they seem to be oblivious to what's happening across the globe, and it's getting worse in the UK by the day.

Depending on what happens here, it could well be the case that we too won't be able to travel, there are likely to be no flights, and I'm not confident that ferries will be carrying passengers and cars for much longer, if that happens, even if they are taken ill, we won't be able to get there to provide support, and if they are seriously ill, then it would be inappropriate for us to travel anyway.

Not easy, and I don't see any way we can actually get through to them that the situation is a lot more serious than they've realised. The fear is that given their ages, and their lack of awareness, one or both of them could become seriously ill with Covid, and there will be no way to provide support for them, given the numbers that are likely to be involved, I'm under no illusions that medical staff are likely to be having to make very hard decisions in the coming months about who they save, as there is clearly a massive shortage of beds and equipment for critical care in the UK.

Maybe the way forward is to put the proposition that if one gets it what will the other do? Even if one did get into hospital there would be no visiting.

Airyfairy12

TravelTiger wrote: »

I'm in a similar boat to OP. My excuse of a sister is still using my parents as her childminders 3 days a week while she does her part time job.

I can feel a big family row brewing. If I take her to task she'll complain to the parents who'll then turn on me because all three can't see the seriousness of this.

I know how it'll play out and it's me getting told to mind my own business by all three and one or more not speaking to me for a good while.

I'm very tempted to get a one way ticket out of the country to be honest. To a place with no closed borders yet and who have been doing an amazing job of containment. I also have a friend in the same area there for chats.

Mark my words. This b@stard of disease will cause splits in Irish families at a time when we should be all there for each other.

Why dont you offer to mind your sisters kids? Then she wont have to use your parents.

Corca Baiscinn

krissovo wrote: »

Its a sad story why he has 7, the popularity of allotments is dropping and he is taking on the allotments when someone passes away to keep them maintained or they will be sold to developers.

His flat looks like a grocery wholesalers, anyone who visits gets a bag of spuds and onions. He gives the veg to the pub as credit for pints and meals.

That's such a lovely and such an Irish thing to do, reminds me of my own Dad and I know someone who brought a bag of spuds to London on the plane with him for his daughter. People would laugh and say "sure the shops are full of potatoes and onions" but there's something very touching about it with the potato having been such an important part of our history and also the "fruit of the earth" idea. Long life and health to your Dad!

saintsaltynuts

Talking to my Da is like talking to the feckin' wall.Mothers not that different.

My parents in London were determined to carry on as normal, but while taking all the advice about distancing, hand washing etc.

Now the Government has old them to effectively self isolate, they are kind of relieved. The decision is no longer in their hands.

Didn’t stop my dad getting to Sainsbury’s and Homebase to get everything he needs for three months of gardening, DIY and jam making though. I can’t wait to see them when this is all over and stock up on marmalade, pickles and chutneys.

Idbatterim

I think the young are being more responsible about this, than the elderly. Look my parents are their own people, they can make their own decisions. They are being prudent now, but due to age and lifestyle choices, they wont be in a good way if they get it. So everyone needs to take responsbility for themselves. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I will tell you what, if I were elderly now, I would be hyper cautious!

Agricola

My Dad was unbelievable. Just wouldn't be told on anything like this. If he was alive today, he'd be driving me crazy trying to get it into his skull how dangerous this is for anyone 80+

My mother on the other hand is counting tins of beans in the bunker and practicing reassembly of her firearm in the dark for when "shít kicks off"

Corca Baiscinn

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'm in the same boat. I think it's starting to get through now but I don't know how much. Pair of them travelled over to England this weekend gone for a party.

I don't know why so many people of that generation seem to think it's all grand while so many of mine (millennials) are scared sh*tless. Maybe because we graduated into a massive recession, have never had a hope of buying property and all that stuff...my parents seem to have a faith in the government and in the 'system' that was knocked out of me long before I turned 25. I feel like I need to look out for myself because no-one else will, and they just don't seem to feel that way.

I see you point but on the other hand, doubt it was your parents's generation who were filling the pubs in Temple Bar at the weekend so all ages can be irresponsible. What you said though made me thing about the OP and their original dilemma re how to convince parents to be sensible. The front-line Gov spokespeople regarding this are Leo, Paschal, and Simons, Coveney and Harris. 3 are in their 40's and 1 is in his early 30's. Do older people think that these "young wans" dot know anything? (My MIL thought Mary Robinson at 47 was "too young" to run for the Presidency:)) would it make any difference if Gov were to wheel out Michael Ring, Charlie Flanagan or Shane Ross to appeal to older people. Forget the back-stories here, just thinking re demographics.

Charles Babbage

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

I see you point but on the other hand, doubt it was your parents's generation who were filling the pubs in Temple Bar at the weekend so all ages can be irresponsible. What you said though made me thing about the OP and their original dilemma re how to convince parents to be sensible. The front-line Gov spokespeople regarding this are Leo, Paschal, and Simons, Coveney and Harris. 3 are in their 40's and 1 is in his early 30's. Do older people think that these "young wans" dot know anything? (My MIL thought Mary Robinson at 47 was "too young" to run for the Presidency:)) would it make any difference if Gov were to wheel out Michael Ring, Charlie Flanagan or Shane Ross to appeal to older people. Forget the back-stories here, just thinking re demographics.

Perhaps Michael D could help with the message. This is not a political matter.

BetterWay

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

My dad was asking my aunt why she doesn't just head to Italy on her holiday next month if the restrictions are listed, because sure, her EHIC would cover her if she needed hospital treatment...at a time when dozens of Italians are being left to die because they haven't enough beds and ventilators for them all!

I was just speechless....how can people be this clueless??!!

Wow

BetterWay

Agricola wrote: »

My mother on the other hand is counting tins of beans in the bunker and practicing reassembly of her firearm in the dark for when "shít kicks off"

She definitely lives in the States right?

Aceandstuff

I was on the phone to my mother a few times over the past week. She and her elderly friends have been talking about this pandemic as if it's just media hype, while my housemates and I have all been working from home, isolating in the house, making sure we're stocked up on food for the next month, etc. All of these people are in or approaching their seventies, and they seem to think it's a fake problem.

I have a serious medical condition and I have been sick on and off for about four years now. Even under normal circumstances, something simple like food poisoning or a flu could leave me in hospital for a week (or fcuking kill me), so I won't be visiting my mother until this is over.

OP, I suggest appealing to their pride/spite. Show and tell them how it kills old people, that "the kids are calling it" the Boomer Remover, and that people are looking forward to not having old people around. Also make it clear that the old people are going to be let die, no matter how true that is right now. And tell them they'll be cremated with no ceremony if they die of the virus.

maninasia

TravelTiger wrote: »

I'm in a similar boat to OP. My excuse of a sister is still using my parents as her childminders 3 days a week while she does her part time job.

I can feel a big family row brewing. If I take her to task she'll complain to the parents who'll then turn on me because all three can't see the seriousness of this.

I know how it'll play out and it's me getting told to mind my own business by all three and one or more not speaking to me for a good while.

I'm very tempted to get a one way ticket out of the country to be honest. To a place with no closed borders yet and who have been doing an amazing job of containment. I also have a friend in the same area there for chats.

Mark my words. This b@stard of disease will cause splits in Irish families at a time when we should be all there for each other.

There's very few places with no closed borders or quarantine enforcement left and the very the last thing those people want to see is a person from Europe who is potebtially bringing them the disease they are trying to contain.

loveall

My Da had his hand touched by one in isolation. Isolated because they've been in contact with a confirmed case. He was out giving neighbours some of his home grown rhubarb.
I'm as much waiting for Jesus to emerge as I am a super hero.
Here we go..."RhubabMan"
It might stop my brother taking his family round like nothing has changed
God help us all

Strumms

saintsaltynuts wrote: »

Talking to my Da is like talking to the feckin' wall.Mothers not that different.

My Dad doesn’t grasp the seriousness either, he’d be out checking the post, then hanging over the gate chatting to neighbors passing by for half an hour, he’s had to be ‘brought in’ a couple of times, though I think watching the late late with the studio empty ‘may’ have begun to focus the potential problem.

He’s got a few issues, his heart, my mother had a bit of skin cancer but otherwise ok but late 70’s and early 80’s not a great time to be opened up to covid.... he’s been given some ‘tough’ advice though.. straight to the point and not sugar coated...

Raconteuse

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Your parents have lived longer than you, it’s their choice show them respect, distance yourself if need be

Good Lord...

Yeah, let them help spread the potentially deadly virus OP - they've lived longer than you.

HamSarris

What young people don’t realise is the elderly live with the reality of death every year so don’t get as excited about this killer virus narrative. About 30,000 people will die each year, the vast majority due to an age-related illness – cancer, heart disease etc. No one is panicking over the 9,000 deaths from cancer each year. It’s horrible but we just accept it as age-related illness and don’t decimate our economy in an attempt to find a cure. No one cares that the mortality rate of people entering a nursing home in the first few months is suspiciously high (27%) – families are often just glad to avoid the inconvenience of caring for their parents.

My suspicion is that some people are using the virus as a means of value-signalling, pretending to care for the elderly while at the same time calling them thick, backward and ordering their isolation. I’d be very resistant to restrict the civil liberties of any individual. We all will be old some day and it may become routine to isolate the elderly every time a dodgy flu comes round. I'd rather be able to leave my home. buy my own stuff and have my independence than be trapped at home dependent on others.

The Armageddon porn and overreaction to this virus will have far more serious consequences than the virus itself. The trillions that will be printed to bail out everyone should devalue global currencies by about 50% over the next few years. The biggest losers will be retirees who will see their pensions decimated by the decline in the stock market and their fixed income from the state lose 50% in purchasing power. This economic and resultant social deprivation of retirees will kill far more people than the virus itself. But an abstract correlation between poverty and death is far less powerful than a killer virus narrative.

My mum is in her sixties with immune suppressing diseases and my gran is 98. My poor aunt is At breaking point minding my gran. My father in law has heart disease and my mother in law severe asthma both in mid 70s. Had a panic attack about the lot tonight and a long cry as each and every one of them is as stubborn as a mule and will be damned if they change their ways. My sister in law moved home to look after her parents, she will be sure to mind them so that’s one less worry. My brother makes the machines that tests for this damn covid so he can’t work from home and lives with my mother. I worry with his comings and goings that he’ll infect her. They both take turns to mind my gran, again carrying the risk. My mother won’t stop visitors to her house, no matter how much I plead with her. I feel at a loss, how can we protect our loved ones? The only thing I’ve managed to do was find some hand sanitizer and ask them to leave it at their doors so at least anyone coming in is a bit cleaner. I don’t intend to visit for a long time with the kids but this is adding to their isolation. Behind their stubbornness they must be worried too. What are we to do?

Then you see the absolute irresponsible idiots out partying, I drove past a pub tonight which had a lock-in behind closed curtains. These f##kers then go to work in the local shops the next day. What chance do we have when they are delivering groceries to the vulnerable?

HamSarris

HamSarris wrote: »

What young people don’t realise is the elderly live with the reality of death every year so don’t get as excited about this killer virus narrative. About 30,000 people will die each year, the vast majority due to an age-related illness – cancer, heart disease etc. No one is panicking over the 9,000 deaths from cancer each year. It’s horrible but we just accept it as age-related illness and don’t decimate our economy in an attempt to find a cure. No one cares that the mortality rate of people entering a nursing home ....

My suspicion is that some people are using the virus as a means of value-signalling, pretending to care for the elderly while at the same time calling them thick, backward and ordering their isolation.

Speak for yourself, you’ve obviously never lost a parent, someone to cancer, or cared about the fate of a loved one in a nursing home. ‘No one is panicking about the 9000 deaths from cancer’, how insensitive are you. They are people’s loved ones. Think before you post. Horrible.

scary

Told my father whos 78 that if he gets it at the height of it the hospitals will age profile and he probably wont be treated. Tuff love but did the job.

scary

scary wrote: »

Told my father whos 78 that if he gets it at the height of it the hospitals will age profile and he probably wont be treated. Tuff love but did the job.

Going to take that line tomorrow. What’s happening in Italy is frightening. If you’re over 80 now you’ll not be treated. And their health service is superior to ours....

ye cant dictate to other adults folks

its infuriating but that's the height of it

Larbre34

My Da died a few years back, and thank feck cos he would've been a nightmare to discipline with this thing.

But my Ma is 76, has very dodgy immunity after long cancer treatments, her attitude is 'sounds like there would be worse ways to go / somethings got to get me / the loneliness and endless days would be worse / I've had a good life etc.

Don't get me wrong, she's not chasing the virus and is excellent about hand hygiene etc, but her attitude to Leo's prospect of the elderly being forcibly isolated in due course was "**** that"

And I have to respect that. The most important thing is to protect the kids from the worst social effects, protect yourself so you will be there for them and respect what the seniors want to do themselves, within reason.

Thousands of elderly and vulnerable WILL die. Don't make the end period of their lives about fear, anxiety, stress, loneliness and a loss of independence.

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thousands of elderly and vulnerable WILL die. Don't make the end period of their lives about fear, anxiety, stress, loneliness and a loss of independence.

That’s the part I’m battling with at the moment. How do you hide your fear and not feed them your anxiety. How do you protect them but not contribute to their isolation and loneliness. Tech Skype/ what’s app etc means nothing to my mam/ gran they want to see their grandkids in person.

Xertz

The whole situation is absolutely surreal. A lot of people simply aren’t going to be able to be “cocooned” as it imagines some kind of neat inter generational separation is even possible.

What happens where you’ve say a grandparent living in a house with grandchildren? There are plenty of situations where say a widowed grandparent has moved in. There are multigenerational households due to the housing crisis too.

Also what do you do if you’ve an at risk parent? Someone in their 30s or 40s could easily have a lung problem. For example bad asthma isn’t unusual.

Are we going to put people into some kind of isolation apartments somewhere or what?

Then what about elderly relatives who can’t handle this? I’ve relatives who live independently but have mild cognitive issues due to old age and can’t be left on their own without causing them to go off the deep end entirely. I’m going to have to balance up going to visit someone vs not going to visit them and discovering they haven’t eaten or have died due to depression. That’s the reality of the situation and it’s grim. One of them would absolutely point blank refuse to go into a home or any type even if that meant she died. That’s how serious this is. She’s not mentally incapable. She’s a sharp, bright lady who will not do this and is likely to weigh up the risks and decide she’s willing to take them.

I’m sorry to say this, but this is not going to work. It’s all fine and well in theory but most people are going to have to just make do with whatever the best measures they can put into place are and try and group isolate or minimise risk.

You can have a discussion with elderly relatives. Give them the facts and let them weigh up the risks. That’s all you can do. They’re adults and are quite capable of making decisions themselves, even if those decisions put them at higher risk. Having a blazing row with an older relative is only going to lead to more turmoil.

You’re also going to have people weighing up quality of life vs length of life. Sorry if that sounds blunt but if you’re in your 80s your perpective may be VERY different.

Younger generations are just going to have to not socialise this year. That’s probably awful for child development and very annoying if you’re in your teens or 20s, but that’s where we are right now. Life as we knew or is gone for a while. It’s going to be a rough approximation of normality until this is under control again.

It’s an unbelievable situation and for a lot of us there aren’t going to be simple solutions.

All we can do is our best.

agreed, larbre

and i think comparisons to millennials who en masse seem convinced that they are the only generation to take a knock or two and have embraced anxiety and resentment as their core attitude to life does maybe suggest that plenty of people in the younger bracket might show a bit of humility and ask themselves whether or not they might have a thing or two to learn from stupid, stubborn old people.

scary

Deleted User wrote: »

ye cant dictate to other adults folks

its infuriating but that's the height of it

Of course you can. I'm an adult if i think my father doesn't get social distancing im going to give him a few home truths adult to adult, that's an adults responsibility. Doesn't matter if its to a parent. This is a life and death matter.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Reading this thread has very much made me appreciate my mother's attitude to all of this. Dad is 58, has an autoimmune disease and hasn't been in good health since he was in his 40s. Mam is in her mid 60s, is healthier and fitter but has asthma. They're taking no chances.

I was due to come home from New Zealand for a visit next week, haven't seen them in 18 months (and am an only child) and as early as last Monday, mam was on the phone basically telling me not to come near her.

freshpopcorn

Hi!
Does anybody know how long it would take for somebody to switch from their pension being paid at the Post Office to it being paid into the bank?

Xertz

It shouldn’t take long at all and I would suspect they’re rushing any applications. Fill in the forms immediately and get it underway.

Even pre COVID-19 that didn’t take long.

BorneTobyWilde

Lots of video's of children who brought death into their parents house, they survived, but they killed their parents and grand parents, a lot to live with.

scary

scary wrote: »

Of course you can. I'm an adult if i think my father doesn't get social distancing im going to give him a few home truths adult to adult, that's an adults responsibility. Doesn't matter if its to a parent. This is a life and death matter.

you can nag, advise, plead and beg.

dictate is not any of the above.

With all due respect Snoopsheep, you can’t possibly understand the feelings and motivations of every ‘millennial’. You don’t know their relationship or the respect they have for their loved ones. The respect they have for their grandparents, (who I’m lucky enough to still have mine at 98. She has lived through many a tragedy and has taught me more than any history book. And I’m sure as you have suggested that there is much that I have still to learn from her). Not once did this millennial elude to the inclination that my much respected and loved elders were stupid and incapable of making their own decisions. Anxiety is not a core value of my life, it is out of love that I fear for their wellbeing. Wishing you well in this time of uncertainty. Good night.

SnowyMuckish

SnowyMuckish wrote: »

With all due respect Snoopsheep, you can’t possibly understand the feelings and motivations of every ‘millennial’. You don’t know their relationship or the respect they have for their loved ones. The respect they have for their grandparents, (who I’m lucky enough to still have mine at 98. She has lived through many a tragedy and has taught me more than any history book. And I’m sure as you have suggested that there is much that I have still to learn from her). Not once did this millennial elude to the inclination that my much respected and loved elders were stupid and incapable of making their own decisions. Anxiety is not a core value of my life, it is out of love that I fear for their wellbeing. Wishing you well in this time of uncertainty. Good night.

no, in fairness and that's a very well written and heartfelt post.

i shouldve underlined that of course one cannot handwave an entire generation like that, but i wasnt responding to your own posts, i was reacting to another post earlier in the thread that was itself a lazy generalising handwave.

which isnt helpful of me.

best to you, yours and everybody else. may we all come out the other end of this less inclined to pick fights online or otherwise :-)

Spon Farmer

Questions555 wrote: »

They live for their grandkids. They refuse to nor be around them. None of the grandkids are mine

Looking for practical advice from those in the same boat for the rest of the replies here

Not typical Boards thanks whoring

Cheers

Maybe you just had it in the thread title for dramatic effect but what is the “indoors” business about?

Who said people need to stay “indoors”?

dartboardio

67+68 year old grandparents finally starting to see this is an emergency after Leo varadkars announcement tonight on RTÉ.

They're returning from gran canaria this Thursday and have been laughing and ignoring at all our warnings about the coronavirus the last few days.

They won't be laughing when they catch it on the plane, considering there are 25k people travelling home from spain to Ireland this week

J. Marston

In the same boat. Close to two weeks of pleading and it's falling on deaf ears.

I've moved from worried to just fùcking pissed off at them, to be honest.

"We'll go mad stuck inside the house." Yeah, you'll be alive though. Pure stubborn idiocy.

freshpopcorn

There was a picture of elderly shoppers having coffee and Tea in a supermarket this morning and it was almost scary how they were almost all sitting on top of one another.

Sorry snoopsheep it wasn’t my intention to create an argument, I took your post personally. Wishing you well.