The elders - a megathread

Claw Hammer

mean gene wrote: »

is it that bad if a grandparent went out for 10 mins to get a pint of milk or their pension

yes.

expectationlost

mean gene wrote: »

is it that bad if a grandparent went out for 10 mins to get a pint of milk or their pension

no.

the hse have not advised the elderly not t to shop https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/coronavirus.html

they could try making other arrangments but

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Yes, however did they have this in mind?

Absolutely horrific. Couldn't set up a better scenario for a mass infection of vulnerable people.

I see now why countries are forced into draconian lockdowns.

iamwhoiam

Claw Hammer wrote: »

yes.

There is no advice from The Hse not to shop .

AndrewJRenko

Stop telling them what to do. Have a good chat with them about funeral preferences and will locations.



See how long that takes to sink in.

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely horrific. Couldn't set up a better scenario for a mass infection of vulnerable people.

I see now why countries are forced into draconian lockdowns.

absolutely, what manager thought that was a good idea, genuinely.

Fann Linn

mariaalice wrote: »

I do not think there is anyone not taking this seriously at this stage.

My mother isn't. She was standing on an alter in a Dublin church this morning handing out communion as a Minister of the Eucharist.

Raconteuse

mariaalice wrote: »

I do not think there is anyone not taking this seriously at this stage.

Read the threads here.

Teach30

Fann Linn wrote: »

My mother isn't. She was standing on an alter in a Dublin church this morning handing out communion as a Minister of the Eucharist.

Same here mine are babysitting, visiting grandkids, feeding workmen etc. Both in their 70s and can’t understand why the priest can’t say mass as only four or five people go anyways.

They know it’s serious but can’t really get their head around it at the same time. It’s denial in a way I suppose.

Fogmatic

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

He doesnt care he just laughs when its brought up and gets mad when he feels like he's being given out too. He's the maturity of a 9 year old sometimes.

It's my belief (from childhood memories and long observation) that when it comes to thinking logically, the average 9-year-old (or child of any age) is more mature than the average adult.

Maybe it's to do with our brains having to specialise as they develop within finite resources; maybe when something has to go, it's sometimes logic. But anyway, I couldn't help wondering whether in some cases of people still taking their children to see grandparents, the children could be enlisted as allies, by just being themselves (without disturbing them, or appearing critical of their parents).

Spouse & I are in our 70s's, it's just the two us in the house, in a rural district, and our family are all in the UK. So we're spared the family contact vs Covid thing (or at least we were once it became clear that my plan to visit our two remaining even older relatives this year while they're still with us must be put on hold for the foreseeable future, even if the car ferry and so on remain possible) And the self-isolation is easier for us than for most people. So it's easy for me to talk, but I do know all about tiptoeing round conflicting family opinions and sensibilities to keep the peace, and that sometimes a child can sidestep these things by just being themselves.

If a relative of mine still persisted in taking their children to see grandparents, and I was in contact with the child, I could imagine saying to the child something along the lines of "If you hear the news about not going to see grandparents, don't worry about it - it's just to keep them nice and safe until the virus goes away. And it's to keep you nice and safe, too". Without saying any more, something like that would be enough for most children I've known to do the rest of the work. Or at least to tip the balance, where the parent(s) main sticking point is the prospect of losing face (how many children, for instance, would know how long a parent has known about some bit of news?)

Maybe it's just that I find it hard to stop imagining scenarios, and should just go back to writing my book! But if this verbiage means just one person in Ireland decides to give it a go if they haven't already, and it works, that would be something.

theguzman

I returned home from abroad over the weekend and am currently isolating away from my parents, my sister is in and out to them, my mother has COPD and very bad lungs and I am so angry over it. Here I am in a freezing caravan with mice doing the right thing for 14-21 days and my sister breaches their quarantine each day. If anything happens to my mother I will nber forgive my sister for this. My mum is at home in isolation since I basically intervened from abroad to get her employer to send her off home.

I feel bad but am doing my part for the sake of my mothers safety.

sheepondrugs

wow i can really resonate with this thread.
My father (late 70's) normally goes to daily mass in west Dublin suburbs where he lives.
Mass at this church had been sensibly cancelled as the virus spread.
So he decides to get the bus into city centre to find a church that was still open. Then goes to a cafe, shops after!!
But hes starting to see sense now finally.
You really need to be ringing them every day and reminding them they have to stay at home

seenitall

https://www.vox.com/first-person/2020/3/18/21185117/coronavirus-covid-19-social-distancing-old-people-parents

Raconteuse

My friend is at her wits' end over her mother who had a bout of pneumonia the year before last that hospitalised and nearly finished her off.

Aceandstuff

I called my mother again yesterday and she still thinks the coverage of Covid-19 is "all fluff". She mocked Leo's speech, and went to a funeral home to see a friend the morning after seeing it on TV.

I ended up explaining to her that I won't be helped if things get critical for me and hospitals are overcrowded like they are in Italy. I have a serious medical condition and have to isolate myself from HER in particular, since she has been ignoring advice to self isolate. She still wants me to "come back home" from Dublin.

Charles Babbage

Another account from Bergamo about what we want to avoid
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/generation-has-died-italian-province-struggles-bury-coronavirus-dead

podgeandrodge

On Paddy's day, that's 2 days ago only, I went for a walk into Rathmines. Butlers Chocolate Cafe was packed with people having coffees at tables right beside each other.

Claw Hammer

iamwhoiam wrote: »

There is no advice from The Hse not to shop .

So what. If it is avoidable, they should not shop.

podgeandrodge

Claw Hammer wrote: »

So what. If it is avoidable, they should not shop.

If avoidable of course yes. But there will always be unavoidable situations where they need to get basic shopping items, and that's where the distancing as much as possible comes in.

In fairness, in my local Tesco, they are doing it as well as possible - keeping people away from each other at checkout etc.

It's the féckin idiots packing into cafes that I don't understand, though maybe they have all closed now.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Some people still can't understand the seriousness of the situation.

The wife and I know a couple where he wants to bring their child into to see his mother, in fact he has brought her in today to see her, and has been visiting his mother most days himself as well. His mother thinks all the talk from people are just panicking and is "ridiculous". She wants to be able to call out to their house as well.

The woman in the couple has tried to explain that his mother could be high risk due to her age but to no avail. And to top it off - this woman is at least 6 months pregnant and is very worried of the consequences if she contracts Covid-19 and has tried to explain that to her partner and his mother.

Unbelievable imo.

Neyite

Mine finally got the message. A history of a few respiratory conditions plus high blood pressure, diabetes and other more minor ailments. Up until then it was "Oh I'm self-isolating, I just popped in to the supermarket to get rolls for the freezer, then the chemist to ask about next months prescription and into mass..."



But it took basically a role reversal from my teenage years where I was the one yelling that they weren't allowed to leave the house until I said so.

is_that_so

Neyite wrote: »

Mine finally got the message. A history of a few respiratory conditions plus high blood pressure, diabetes and other more minor ailments. Up until then it was "Oh I'm self-isolating, I just popped in to the supermarket to get rolls for the freezer, then the chemist to ask about next months prescription and into mass..."



But it took basically a role reversal from my teenage years where I was the one yelling that they weren't allowed to leave the house until I said so.

Ah yes, the moment when the child becomes the adult!:) Glad to hear it and well done.

Spanish Eyes

The HSE website does not appear to say that over 60s should self isolate UNLESS they have been in contact with someone who has been/is ill, or they have underlying conditions, or show symptoms themselves.

Seems to me that the cohort outside the above, can take exercise using social distancing and can shop. The big issue for those in that age group who are well, is transference from kids and others to them.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/at-risk-groups.html

Am I reading this correctly?

LadyMayBelle

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The HSE website does not appear to say that over 60s should self isolate UNLESS they have been in contact with someone who has been/is ill, or they have underlying conditions, or show symptoms themselves.

Seems to me that the cohort outside the above, can take exercise using social distancing and can shop. The big issue for those in that age group who are well, is transference from kids and others to them.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/at-risk-groups.html

Am I reading this correctly?

I think you are. I don't feel the message is clear from the HSE...my folks are 59 and 60 and I worry like many that age, believe they are invincible when it comes to the virus, because they aren't 'elderly' (forgetting they have had coughs and chest infections over the last two years). The message getting out is to mind the elderly and immunosuppressed but it's not like you do from being young to old overnight by turning 60, 64 or 70. Every time you go to the shop unnecessarily you are making a decision to put yourself and others at risk.

Neyite

is_that_so wrote: »

Ah yes, the moment when the child becomes the adult!:) Glad to hear it and well done.

There were threats (me) and sulks (her) and almost-tears (me). If it wasn't over video call there may well have been a petulant "Uuugh!!! Stop treating me like a stupid kid, you're not even my real Mom" accompanied by a slammed door or two.

It wasn't pretty because I explained in detail how death from this is working in Italy. Like a lot of elderly, she's got a rough idea of what/how they want their passing to be. And knowing that the government would override the careful plans of being laid out in the local funeral home for family and the neighbours and would instead unceremoniously stuff them into a big zip lock bag to be cremated may have been what finally swayed it. She's not worried about dying. Not gonna scare her that way. It's the mortification of not having a suitable send off that did it.

That was brutal but it had been two weeks of talking from all sides of the family going in one ear and out the other while planning the next unnecessary jaunt. I can live with the guilt. :P

James 007

As per the post title, can we outline a clear definition for cocooning for the elderly & most high risk persons. I have an 85 year old mother who lives in a country house. My two brothers take turns to call into her & give het tablets. What needs to change in this situation.

JustAThought

James 007 wrote: »

As per the post title, can we outline a clear definition for cocooning for the elderly & most high risk persons. I have an 85 year old mother who lives in a country house. My two brothers take turns to call into her & give het tablets. What needs to change in this situation.

Its a PR euphamism for total isolation because Varadkar, O Reilly, his running mate Farrell and all the boys did nothing for the hospital crisis these past 5 years.They don’t have enough beds, equipment or capacity. Same ile problem, no planning or solutions or willpower, now the command is to stay at home or die : “cocooning”. PR speak for we did nothing.

Atlantic Dawn

JustAThought wrote: »

Its a PR euphamism for total isolation because Varadkar, O Reilly, his running mate Farrell and all the boys did nothing for the hospital crisis these past 5 years.They don’t have enough beds, equipment or capacity. Same ile problem, no planning or solutions or willpower, now the command is to stay at home or die : “cocooning”. PR speak for we did nothing.

To be fair only a Chinese approach will stop this thing, there's no appetite here for that level of controls though.

Peregrinus

James 007 wrote: »

As per the post title, can we outline a clear definition for cocooning for the elderly & most high risk persons. I have an 85 year old mother who lives in a country house. My two brothers take turns to call into her & give het tablets. What needs to change in this situation.

Apart from the visits by your brothers, is she otherwise living alone?

How often to your brothers visit? Daily? Every morning and evening? When you say that they "give her her tablets", do they actually administer them to her?

If she has a degree of disability such that she requires her medication to be administered to her, who does other tasks - cooking, cleaning? Does she feed herself? Does she toilet herself?

If, on the other hand, she is able to do all these things for herself, why do your brothers need to call to give her her medication?

(JustAThought implies that your mother would be better off in hospital. Unless she needs inpatient treatment she should definitely not be in hospital - not only because others who do require inpatient treatment will need the bed more, but because being in hospital would present a risk to her that she should not run unless she can needs to.)

biko

The definition is

It’s when people particularly vulnerable to a condition like Covid-19 get extra special help from other people around them to help to protect them from even getting the disease. So it’s a little bit akin to self-isolation except it’s not just the self that’s doing it, it’s others around are helping with that

As we actually have been doing in Ireland, many of us are helping others who are in isolation to get the groceries and to maybe get some food and help them with the practical realities of daily life, so cocooning is, for others to help the more vulnerable.

Not necessarily in their homes but certainly socially distant from others. So going out into the garden into the wind in the rain, as we all do is probably fine and perhaps going for a walk completely more than two metres from others and not touching surfaces is fine. So it’s not necessarily at home it’s more the social distancing than the sort of geographic separation in a home.

RCSI’s Professor Samuel McConkey