NFL Offseason 2020

j8wk2feszrnpao

kmart6 wrote: »

Will be the same for teams looking to draft Tua too really then, won't be able to get a proper look at him.

So he'll falls to the Pats at the 23rd pick........... :pac:

Realt Dearg Sec

So with Tom Brady going to the buccs has anyone made a j joke about Florida and retirement? I don't have a good one yet but I'm just reserving this space in the thread for when I think of one.

adrian522

Emmanuel Sanders to the saints apparently.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

So with Tom Brady going to the buccs has anyone made a j joke about Florida and retirement? I don't have a good one yet but I'm just reserving this space in the thread for when I think of one.

I was sure someone would mention that he and Kraft can visit one of Florida's, emm Masseur facilities? :P

Foxtrol

adrian522 wrote: »

Emmanuel Sanders to the saints apparently.

Disappointed the 49ers didn't keep him but between now likely spending one of the 1st round picks on a WR, his age, and the tight cap space it is understandable. WR room is going to be pretty crowded if Taylor or Hurd come back strong and/or Pettis regains form.

I understand it being seen as a pricey trade by some but given the WR injuries I think he was a key in making the Super Bowl. I'd say the half season rental was worth it for a cost of a very late 3rd and very late 4th in 2020 when you see the team also getting back an early 5th 2020 and likely a comp pick in the 5th in 2021.

Rumours of a trade for OBJ bubbling up again too, as Browns are apparently open to offers. His salary would only be around $5m or 6m more than Sanders for a much better and younger player.

el Fenomeno

Panthers are releasing Cam Newton today, per Schefter.

Knex*

Pretty sad end to his time there. Not exactly a great send off to their former MVP.

He did look shot for the last 18 months or so. He was throwing ducks, which for a guy of his previous arm strength, is a major concern.

They must obviously feel his body can no longer compete in the NFL. Will be interesting to see where he heads now, and how his career ends.

The_Honeybadger

Chargers were supposedly interested in Cam but they couldn’t agree a deal. They may get him for nothing now if he can pass a physical, probably as a bridge QB if they draft somebody. Hope he can get back on the field somewhere in any case. You’d be wary of depending on him as your starter at this stage though

raze_them_all_

If his arm is shot I'd say he might try his luck as an rb? He's a big boy if he learns to take contact at rb

ItAintMeBabe

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

If his arm is shot I'd say he might try his luck as an rb? He's a big boy if he learns to take contact at rb

Cam?

I would give you €1000 if this happened.

raze_them_all_

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Cam?

I would give you €1000 if this happened.

I don't think it would happen but if he can't throw a ball it'd either be retire or retool.

Realt Dearg Sec

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Cam?

I would give you €1000 if this happened.

That's probably more than cam would get paid for that.

The_Honeybadger

Cam has had serious shoulder and knee issues, he will have to become more of a pocket passer, which he is well capable of doing if his shoulder can hold up. His days making big plays with his legs are over imo, he might still be able to do some of that, breaking the pocket to extend plays etc but he was rushing 10+ times per game and taking big hits in the past, which has undoubtedly contributed to the wear and tear on his body.

Somebody will give him a job, I wouldn’t mind him on my team if he can pass a physical but he definitely needs to adapt his style to avoid taking those big hits going forward

Knex*

Also only realised in the past day or so that he's completely vegan. Fair play to him for making that commitment in such a physically demanding league, but I wonder how that also effects his injuries / recoveries etc.

The_Honeybadger

Knex. wrote: »

Also only realised in the past day or so that he's completely vegan. Fair play to him for making that commitment in such a physically demanding league, but I wonder how that also effects his injuries / recoveries etc.

Brady eats very little meat although I don’t think he is fully vegan. I remember when Le’Veon Bell player for the steelers he said that his training and recovery was much better when he went vegan. Don’t know anything about the science behind it but it seems that several high profile players have gone that way and seem to think it benefits them.

raze_them_all_

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Brady eats very little meat although I don’t think he is fully vegan. I remember when Le’Veon Bell player for the steelers he said that his training and recovery was much better when he went vegan. Don’t know anything about the science behind it but it seems that several high profile players have gone that way and seem to think it benefits them.

Probably can when you've spent your whole life eating meat and hitting weights to build muscle and you can afford the best of food and supplements etc

Jolly Red Giant

Broncos resign Shelby Harris on a 1 year $3.2million deal with $2.5million guaranteed - nice bit of work by Elway.

Foxtrol

Aldon Smith, one of the biggest wasted talents in NFL history, has signed with the Cowboys. During his first two years with the 49ers he had 33.5 sacks, more than any player in NFL history. After years of off the field issues, including a period with the Raiders, he is now apparently clean. Interesting to see what he can do given how long it has been since those peak years.

eagle eye

I missed the Stefon Diggs trade. How do you decide to give up a first, fifth, sixth and next year's fourth for him and a seventh?
I'm blown away by the stupidity of it.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

I missed the Stefon Diggs trade. How do you decide to give up a first, fifth, sixth and next year's fourth for him and a seventh?
I'm blown away by the stupidity of it.

I suppose they see blood in the water in their division and wanted the sure thing rather than taking one of these stud receivers in the draft that may take time to settle in the NFL or may not even pan out. Diggs is a very good receiver, they probably did overpay a little but I wouldn’t have any big issue with the trade personally.

Those late round picks aren’t especially valuable, the hit rate in the fifth and sixth round in particular is very low, albeit Diggs himself was a fifth round pick.

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote:

I suppose they see blood in the water in their division and wanted the sure thing rather than taking one of these stud receivers in the draft that may take time to settle in the NFL or may not even pan out. Diggs is a very good receiver, they probably did overpay a little but I wouldn’t have any big issue with the trade personally.

Those late round picks aren’t especially valuable, the hit rate in the fifth and sixth round in particular is very low, albeit Diggs himself was a fifth round pick.

I think you overestimate Diggs a lot. I wouldn't rank him in the top ten WR's in the NFL right now.
I'd be much more willing to trade up and get the likes of Jeudy or Lamb and it'd be cheaper too.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

I think you overestimate Diggs a lot. I wouldn't rank him in the top ten WR's in the NFL right now.
I'd be much more willing to trade up and get the likes of Jeudy or Lamb and it'd be cheaper too.

How am I overrating him? I never said Diggs was a top 10 receiver, he probably is top 20 though, and he has shown himself to be very durable which is an underrated quality. His production over the years has been very good.

Bills have done an excellent job of building up their roster through the draft and they have loads of cap space. Diggs will probably give them 1000 yards and 6-8 TD’s. I would not bet on any rookie giving them that. They are looking for the missing piece to get them over the line in the division with the Pats now seemingly weakened, so taking a relatively safe bet on a proven player that they can easily afford is not the worst move. There are no guarantees in the draft no matter how much the talking heads big up certain prospects.

Not sure I’d have done that trade either btw, but it’s not a terrible trade imo

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote:

Diggs will probably give them 1000 yards and 6-8 TD’s.

So you think that's worth first, fourth fifth and sixth round picks? I'd want Julio Jones or Michael Thomas for that.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

So you think that's worth first, fourth fifth and sixth round picks? I'd want Julio Jones or Michael Thomas for that.

Doesn’t matter what I think it’s worth, the Bills think it’s worth it and if they win the division and Diggs contributes to that they’ll be happy with the trade. Those late round picks are just about worthless.

Re Jones and Thomas, Diggs earns just over half what those guys do and is locked up for the next three years, that has to be considered too.

mistermatthew

There is no chance you could get either of those players for that trade. Unless bill o brien was the GM.

eagle eye wrote: »

So you think that's worth first, fourth fifth and sixth round picks? I'd want Julio Jones or Michael Thomas for that.

eagle eye

mistermatthew wrote:

There is no chance you could get either of those players for that trade. Unless bill o brien was the GM.

It's very close to what you'd pay for those two.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

It's very close to what you'd pay for those two.

Possibly in the case of Jones with his age but he wasn’t available so it’s a moot point

If the saints were looking to trade Thomas I’d imagine they’d be looking for multiple first round picks, or at the very least a first and a couple of seconds

eagle eye

I'd agree but Diggs isn't worth a first. Thielen is a better, from his former team. He is not a no.1.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd agree but Diggs isn't worth a first. Thielen is a better, from his former team. He is not a no.1.

I’d agree Thielen is marginally better. Diggs doesn’t have to be a No. 1, they have a nice setup with Brown, Beasely and now Diggs, plenty of targets for Allen. Their opportunity in the division is now, having lived in the Pats shadow for two decades. They are in full ‘go’ mode for 2020 so a veteran receiver makes sense over a rookie who may take two or three seasons to become a star. The Bills record of picking receivers is hardly stellar either.

I wouldn’t want my team to give up a first for Diggs either but I can see why they did it and you are always going to overpay a bit in their situation. There were probably other teams interested and if it got in to a bit of a bidding war I could see how they ended up with that deal. There weren’t many other vet receivers available bar Hopkins who wants $23m a year or something crazy like that.

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote:

I’d agree Thielen is marginally better. Diggs doesn’t have to be a No. 1, they have a nice setup with Brown, Beasely and now Diggs, plenty of targets for Allen. Their opportunity in the division is now, having lived in the Pats shadow for two decades. They are in full ‘go’ mode for 2020 so a veteran receiver makes sense over a rookie who may take two or three seasons to become a star. The Bills record of picking receivers is hardly stellar either.

They would have got a no.1 in the draft for a lot less than that. They could have got Jeudy for less than that. Now if you want to call that a gamble or less likely to work out then I think you need to read up on Alabama's no.1 WR's. Last three Alabama no.1's to come out of college are Julio Jones 959 yards 8tds in rookie season, Amari Cooper 1070 yards 6tds and Calvin Ridley 821 yards(as no.2) 10 tds.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

They would have got a no.1 in the draft for a lot less than that. They could have got Jeudy for less than that. Now if you want to call that a gamble or less likely to work out then I think you need to read up on Alabama's no.1 WR's. Last three Alabama no.1's to come out of college are Julio Jones 959 yards 8tds in rookie season, Amari Cooper 1070 yards 6tds and Calvin Ridley 821 yards(as no.2) 10 tds.

Virtually every franchise in the league has been burned at one point or another with a ‘can’t miss’ prospect in the draft. Jeudy and Lamb will likely be gone by 22 and you might be paying a heavy price to move up, teams will likely want their second round pick and probably a 2021 mid rounder, that is much more valuable than the 4-6 ones they gave up for Diggs.

I don’t totally disagree with you btw, but I just don’t think it’s nearly as bad a trade as you are making out. They have been very smart building through the draft and now that they have a lot of things in place they are going for it with a guy they think can put them in position to win the Division and make a playoff run now. The time to judge the trade is in a couple of years time or after this season at the very earliest

BonnieSituation

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

How am I overrating him? I never said Diggs was a top 10 receiver, he probably is top 20 though, and he has shown himself to be very durable which is an underrated quality. His production over the years has been very good.

Bills have done an excellent job of building up their roster through the draft and they have loads of cap space. Diggs will probably give them 1000 yards and 6-8 TD’s. I would not bet on any rookie giving them that. They are looking for the missing piece to get them over the line in the division with the Pats now seemingly weakened, so taking a relatively safe bet on a proven player that they can easily afford is not the worst move. There are no guarantees in the draft no matter how much the talking heads big up certain prospects.

Not sure I’d have done that trade either btw, but it’s not a terrible trade imo

This^^^^ right here.

eagle eye

BonnieSituation wrote:

This^^^^ right here.

Yeah, a no.1 receiver is what they need, they still don't have one and are short a first rounder, fifth and sixth rounders and a fourth next year.

BonnieSituation

You have a valid point. There's no point in labouring it, but everyone should be able to see WHY they did it.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah, a no.1 receiver is what they need, they still don't have one and are short a first rounder, fifth and sixth rounders and a fourth next year.

Diggs put up 1000 + yards in recent seasons despite being double teamed on passing downs, what would he need to do to be considered a WR1?

He is not Hopkins, Jones, Thomas or AB, but none of those guys have superbowl rings, you don’t need an elite top 5 receiver like that to win in the league, give me a stable of guys that can all give you 1000 yards a piece in a given season over one of the above. Just my opinion

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote:

He is not Hopkins, Jones, Thomas or AB, but none of those guys have superbowl rings, you don’t need an elite top 5 receiver like that to win in the league, give me a stable of guys that can all give you 1000 yards a piece in a given season over one of the above. Just my opinion

Cooks cost a second rounder and is contracted through 2023. In his six seasons in the NFL he has four 1k+ yardage seasons through three different QB's.
Do you call that a steel? I don't, I think it's about right and I certainly wouldn't rate Diggs higher than him.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

Cooks cost a second rounder and is contracted through 2023. In his six seasons in the NFL he has four 1k+ yardage seasons through three different QB's.
Do you call that a steel? I don't, I think it's about right and I certainly wouldn't rate Diggs higher than him.

Cooks has had so many concussions at this point I wouldn’t touch him. They are probably about the same level as players in the tier below the very top guys if everything else is equal but it’s not, Cooks health is a major red flag and he took a big step back last season as a result. Cooks was traded twice in the past for a first round pick btw.

Anyway no point debating in much further. Let’s see how it plays out this season. AFC East will be interesting hopefully.

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote:

Anyway no point debating in much further. Let’s see how it plays out this season. AFC East will be interesting hopefully.

Well not sure you'll see much change. I've been a big fan of Jarrett Stidham since he arrived in New England. I fancy he has what it takes to be a really good QB, I think he learned a lot from Brady.. You never know for sure until they do get the start but everything I've seen leads me to believe we are in good hands. We just need to improve the receiving corps a little and get a tight end and our offense should be good enough to continue dominating the AFC East.

mistermatthew

Cooks career could be over with all the concussions. Massive punt by anyone signing him. Great player but could be finished. Diggs has a lot of upside. And could conceivably have a breakout year. Although with allen at qb that may be difficult!

eagle eye wrote: »

Cooks cost a second rounder and is contracted through 2023. In his six seasons in the NFL he has four 1k+ yardage seasons through three different QB's.
Do you call that a steel? I don't, I think it's about right and I certainly wouldn't rate Diggs higher than him.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

Well not sure you'll see much change. I've been a big fan of Jarrett Stidham since he arrived in New England. I fancy he has what it takes to be a really good QB, I think he learned a lot from Brady.. You never know for sure until they do get the start but everything I've seen leads me to believe we are in good hands. We just need to improve the receiving corps a little and get a tight end and our offense should be good enough to continue dominating the AFC East.

Yes the test for a young guy like that is after several starts when teams have more tape on him. The pre season is fairly meaningless in evaluating players. He is bound to make mistakes too, even if he is as good as you hope. Are you sure he will be the starter? I would not be surprised to see Belichick move for a short term veteran if the price is right.

If I was a betting man I’d back the Bills for the AFC East tbh, they have been building and look solid, but it would not surprise me in the least to see NE win the division again either. They still have the best pass defence around. They need a very good draft if that is to happen though.

el Fenomeno

Can't believe Brandin Cooks is only 26.

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote:

Yes the test for a young guy like that is after several starts when teams have more tape on him. The pre season is fairly meaningless in evaluating players. He is bound to make mistakes too, even if he is as good as you hope. Are you sure he will be the starter? I would not be surprised to see Belichick move for a short term veteran if the price is right.

I don't see Belichick moving for a veteran. It's impossible to predict what he'll do at the best of times but he signed Hoyer which looks like a veteran backup who knows the system move so I have to believe that he is going with Stidham. I think Brady would still be there if he wasn't confident of Stidham working out.

j8wk2feszrnpao

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Yes the test for a young guy like that is after several starts when teams have more tape on him. The pre season is fairly meaningless in evaluating players. He is bound to make mistakes too, even if he is as good as you hope. Are you sure he will be the starter? I would not be surprised to see Belichick move for a short term veteran if the price is right.

Agreed. Stidham has completed 2 passes (4 attempts) for 14yards, 0 TDs, and 1 INT (a pick 6) in his NFL career. He has a long way to go to prove he's a backup let alone actually being a starter.

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

If I was a betting man I’d back the Bills for the AFC East tbh, they have been building and look solid

I'm not a fan of Josh Allen, but they would be my favs at the moment. But now comes that pressure, and can they manage it. Plus, it's a far more difficult schedule this year. The Eagles won the NFC East with 9 wins. 9 or 10 wins could earn the AFC East.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

They would have got a no.1 in the draft for a lot less than that. They could have got Jeudy for less than that. Now if you want to call that a gamble or less likely to work out then I think you need to read up on Alabama's no.1 WR's. Last three Alabama no.1's to come out of college are Julio Jones 959 yards 8tds in rookie season, Amari Cooper 1070 yards 6tds and Calvin Ridley 821 yards(as no.2) 10 tds.

I'm not sure where you're getting any of your trade values to move around in the first from, it definitely is not recent history.

Jeudy, Lamb & Ruggs are all expected to be gone by around the 13th pick in the draft, with Jeudy going in many mocks before it gets to double digits, and Buffalo's pick was 22.

Two recent examples of that kind of move up are the Texans in 2017, when they went from pick 25 to 12 and it cost them both their 2017 1st round pick and their 2018 1st round pick, and the Saints in 2018, when they went from pick 27 to 14 and it cost them their 2018 1st round pick, 2018 5th round pick, and their 2019 1st round pick.

You seem to mistakenly believe a team can jump halfway up the board in the first at the same cost as teams move up in day 3. The Bills couldn't move up to a spot to get Jeudy at even the price they paid for Diggs, any talk of doing so for 'a lot less' is absolute nonsense.

jack presley

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Can't believe Brandin Cooks is only 26.

and has already been traded 3 times!

el Fenomeno

jack presley wrote: »

and has already been traded 3 times!

Have to wonder if maybe he's a bit of a locker room headache. He's performed fairly well (excluding last year) putting up 1,000 yard seasons for each of the team's he's played for.

Either that or he falls into the "good but not good enough" category.

eagle eye

el Fenomeno wrote:

Have to wonder if maybe he's a bit of a locker room headache. He's performed fairly well (excluding last year) putting up 1,000 yard seasons for each of the team's he's played for.
Either that or he falls into the "good but not good enough" category.

I wonder if it's the case that he is not happy being no.2. Thomas came through as the clear no.1 in New Orleans. He was behind Gronk in New England and Edelman was coming back the next season and he has fallen behind Kupp in LA.
You don't get the big contracts as a no.
2 on a team.

The_Honeybadger

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Agreed. Stidham has completed 2 passes (4 attempts) for 14yards, 0 TDs, and 1 INT (a pick 6) in his NFL career. He has a long way to go to prove he's a backup let alone actually being a starter.

I'm not a fan of Josh Allen, but they would be my favs at the moment. But now comes that pressure, and can they manage it. Plus, it's a far more difficult schedule this year. The Eagles won the NFC East with 9 wins. 9 or 10 wins could earn the AFC East.

Belichick must like him so there is cause for optimism but that’s about it, he has it all to prove like you say. As a Steelers fan I can attest to the folly of placing too much stock in pre season, Mason Rudolph looked great last preseason against backups where nobody was blitzing him or doing any sort of game prep to stop him and he won the backup job behind Ben on the back of it. When he had to play in the regular season his limitations and inexperience were ruthlessly exposed.

I don’t know if the pressure will get to the Bills, they have the experience of the WC last season and I think they should improve next year, depending on injuries etc. It’s the most interesting that Division has been in a while anyway that’s for sure.

j8wk2feszrnpao

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Belichick must like him so there is cause for optimism but that’s about it, he has it all to prove like you say.

Bill would still have taken Brady back though; in the end it was Brady who left.
Until we see Stidham for 6+ games at least, it's not possible to say how he's gonna do. But he's got a lot to prove.

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I don’t know if the pressure will get to the Bills, they have the experience of the WC last season and I think they should improve next year, depending on injuries etc. It’s the most interesting that Division has been in a while anyway that’s for sure.

They do need to improve. 10:6 last year with what was an easy schedule. If they repeat 10:6, that would be an improvement, and probably enough to win the division. Division is open, but might be the least talented at the QB position.

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1249792437075226624