The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

bob mcbob

robinph wrote: »

Has there been any identifiable peaks caused by people not doing what they were told, or things not having shut down soon enough throughout this?

Any hot spots caused by Cheltenham, Stereophonics gig in Cardiff, Bath Half Marathon?
Any peaks caused by people being overcrowded on the underground in the first week as train numbers were reduced that just meant less trains being just as crowded as before?
Any peaks caused by people congregating in parks over the various Easter and other bank holiday weekends?
Any peaks caused by VE day street parties?
Any peaks caused by people gradually starting to return to work?

There have been many instances through the last few months where some picture of people seemingly crowded in small spaces have been splashed across front pages and predictions of doom and gloom in three weeks time were made. Did any of these things come to pass?

You may have missed this post from Bilston 3 days ago - just one hospital.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113487003

Joe_ Public

I don't know can you prove these things,
but Gloucestershire has been the worst hit region in the south west in terms of cases and deaths. Haven't seen any quantifiable link being established with Cheltenham but you can see why the connection would be made.

meeeeh

robinph wrote: »

Has there been any identifiable peaks caused by people not doing what they were told, or things not having shut down soon enough throughout this?

Any hot spots caused by Cheltenham, Stereophonics gig in Cardiff, Bath Half Marathon?
Any peaks caused by people being overcrowded on the underground in the first week as train numbers were reduced that just meant less trains being just as crowded as before?
Any peaks caused by people congregating in parks over the various Easter and other bank holiday weekends?
Any peaks caused by VE day street parties?
Any peaks caused by people gradually starting to return to work?

There have been many instances through the last few months where some picture of people seemingly crowded in small spaces have been splashed across front pages and predictions of doom and gloom in three weeks time were made. Did any of these things come to pass?

There were no studies about peaks caused about any of it because there wasn't enough testing or information to conclude that. It's easier in case of Bergamo and CL match because you are talking about club with local fanbase a lot of which travelled and congregated together. UK didn't test enough to see where the spikes were but I think there are indications Liverpool and area around Cheltenham had more infections.

Btw Corona transmits best when shouting and singing in closed spaces. You can make your own conclusions from that.

lainey_d_123

robinph wrote: »

But once the general population is back out an about again, people are wearing face masks in more situations and mostly keeping a bit more distance from people where appropriate there is no reason to think it would spread the same as before... unless something else changes as well.

Has there been a major second peak in China yet?

I'd love to think that would be the case. I just don't trust that people will behave themselves. There are already loads of big groups gathering in the park near my flat. I think the announcement that there were no new confirmed cases in London has resulted in a sense of misplaced confidence and complacency.

robinph wrote: »

Has there been any identifiable peaks caused by people not doing what they were told, or things not having shut down soon enough throughout this?

Any hot spots caused by Cheltenham, Stereophonics gig in Cardiff, Bath Half Marathon?
Any peaks caused by people being overcrowded on the underground in the first week as train numbers were reduced that just meant less trains being just as crowded as before?
Any peaks caused by people congregating in parks over the various Easter and other bank holiday weekends?
Any peaks caused by VE day street parties?
Any peaks caused by people gradually starting to return to work?

There have been many instances through the last few months where some picture of people seemingly crowded in small spaces have been splashed across front pages and predictions of doom and gloom in three weeks time were made. Did any of these things come to pass?

It's hard to have identifiable peaks without contract tracing, but do the numbers not being so high throughout the lockdown not point to the fact that all of these types of things were spreader events?

Enzokk

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Well, who'd a thunk it? Seems testing numbers may not be all they are cracked up to be. Shocked, i tells you. Shocked!

What this suggests, though, is that even the people tested daily figure is almost certainly fictitious and who knows what the true figure might be? Not sure what official information you are supposed to trust anymore, are there no civil servants who will openly oppose this?

Here is the link to the article.

Now this isn't for all of the tests per day, but it seems to be mostly the pillar one of the figures which are done by Public Health England. Yesterday they tallied 38 296 tests but only 24 574 people tested. So I guess that is another 13 000 or so tests that should be deducted from the number. Add in the 23 820 tests in pillar 4 which is not done for diagnosis and the 41 000 tests sent out for delivery, you are left with 67 681 people tested yesterday.

robinph

bob mcbob wrote: »

You may have missed this post from Bilston 3 days ago - just one hospital.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113487003

Which would be some kind of evidence if it was replicated in other hospitals around the country, or even that something strange was going on if the same hospital continued to have a spike in numbers over the following week. Did that happen or was it just a curious one off spike in the number of admissions for that one hospital? Not heard anything on that theory since then so I'm expecting that nothing actually happened due to VE day.

Dave0301 wrote: »

Not the tube, but there is to be an investigation as to why 33 TfL bus workers have died of Covid-19.

Link: BBC News

Lot of stuff to investigate there as to reasons why it hit them so badly. But there is certainly more to it than just the bus/ tube being a bit busy on a particular week. Reducing interactions with the public, better shielding for the drivers and investigating age/ gender/ ethnicity/ economic reasons for the TFL staff as well is needed.

Dave0301 wrote: »

Is having the highest death toll in Europe not specific enough for you?

Whilst tragic, that doesn't tell us a whole lot about how the virus is actually moving through communities.

Dave0301 wrote: »

There was talk of allowing the Liverpool A. Madrid match to go ahead being a possible cause of a spike in deaths in the city of Liverpool. I don't know of any concrete studies on that event or any of the ones you listed though.

That is the most likely hot spot caused by some identifiable event that I've heard anything off. Just the fact of importing a large number of people from one infected area to another and them hanging out in close proximity for a day, whilst drunk.

That there isn't a massive spike in Sterophonics fans having succumbed, or Cheltenham goers suggest that football crowds moving around pubs when visiting some new city behave in a different way than people at gigs. Hanging out at a horse track or running a half marathon doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as going on a pub crawl around Liverpool though.

These are useful things to know, and could help with reducing the further spread and also how we can safely resume life again.

robinph

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's hard to have identifiable peaks without contract tracing, but do the numbers not being so high throughout the lockdown not point to the fact that all of these types of things were spreader events?

Hospital admissions around the country would give a good indication, although if people were getting infected but then not mixing with vulnerable people who might end up in hospital less so. London obviously being the most susceptible to over crowding in parks and transport though has been showing a downward trend for a lot longer than other parts of the country, yet didn't seem to have any peaks in those numbers on the way back down.

The specific events should have had fairly localised populations going to them and so should then be identifiable in local hospital admissions if there was something being caused by them happening.

Joe_ Public

Enzokk wrote: »

Here is the link to the article.

Now this isn't for all of the tests per day, but it seems to be mostly the pillar one of the figures which are done by Public Health England. Yesterday they tallied 38 296 tests but only 24 574 people tested. So I guess that is another 13 000 or so tests that should be deducted from the number. Add in the 23 820 tests in pillar 4 which is not done for diagnosis and the 41 000 tests sent out for delivery, you are left with 67 681 people tested yesterday.

It begs more questions for me. They've obviously always been counting retests as new tests, but are they also counting tests as double beyond that? That article hints at it, but it's hard to be sure.

There are also anomalies with Pillar 2 which is the community testing sector. Yesterday, for example, they say 43,107 people were tested under P2. But also that only 25,125 tests were processed in person. I mean, wtf does that mean? That's another 18,000 tests seem to have failed or not produced a result for some reason.

It's a real rabbit hole of obfuscation and confusion. Cant trust a single line of it.

Joe_ Public

Two weeks after the Cheltenham festival, infection rates in Gloucestershire started outstripping its neighbouring region.

"What is stark in the above line chart is how badly Gloucestershire has been hit by the virus, far surpassing any other region in the South West, almost double the number of cases seen in Devon, the next worst hit county.

"Infection rates in Gloucestershire soon started outstripping its neighbouring counties around March 24 and has escalated since with a much steeper climb, according to the Public Health England data."

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/timeline-how-coronavirus-cases-multiplied-4048463
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

bob mcbob

robinph wrote: »

Hospital admissions around the country would give a good indication, although if people were getting infected but then not mixing with vulnerable people who might end up in hospital less so. London obviously being the most susceptible to over crowding in parks and transport though has been showing a downward trend for a lot longer than other parts of the country, yet didn't seem to have any peaks in those numbers on the way back down.

The specific events should have had fairly localised populations going to them and so should then be identifiable in local hospital admissions if there was something being caused by them happening.

The graph for new infections in Iran is shown in the attached. This is what happens when lifting of lockdown is botched.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/iran/

robinph

bob mcbob wrote: »

The graph for new infections in Iran is shown in the attached. This is what happens when lifting of lockdown is botched.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/iran/

So what did Iran do wrong and what do we all need to watch out for?

Is the UK copying any of Irans policies on the lifting of lockdown?

Enzokk

Some good news it seems,

Coronavirus: Immune clue sparks treatment hope

UK scientists are to begin testing a treatment that it is hoped could counter the effects of Covid-19 in the most seriously ill patients.

It has been found those with the most severe form of the disease have extremely low numbers of an immune cell called a T-cell.

T-cells clear infection from the body.

The clinical trial will evaluate if a drug called interleukin 7, known to boost T-cell numbers, can aid patients' recovery.

It involves scientists from the Francis Crick Institute, King's College London and Guy's and St Thomas' Hospital.

Finding an effective treatment for the disease will help with the easing of restrictions and a return to normality around the world.

SharpshooterTom

More than a fifth of people believe that the coronavirus crisis is a hoax, new research suggests.

The study, conducted by the University of Oxford, saw 2,500 English adults take part in the Oxford Coronavirus Explanations, Attitudes, and Narratives Survey between 4-11 May 2020.

The team of clinical psychologists state that the data from the survey indicates a large number of adults in England do not agree with the scientific and governmental consensus on the Covid-19 pandemic.

According to the results, almost three fifths (59% per cent) of adults in England believe to some extent that the government is misleading the public about the cause of the virus.

Similarly, more than a fifth (21 per cent) believe the virus is a hoax, and 62 per cent agree to some extent that the virus is man-made.

When asked whether they believed that coronavirus is a bio-weapon developed by China to destroy the West, 55 per cent said they did not agree, 20.2 per cent said they agreed a little and 5.5 per cent agreed completely.

Meanwhile 79 per cent said they did not agree that coronavirus is caused by 5G.

“Such ideas were associated with paranoia, general vaccination conspiracy beliefs, climate change conspiracy belief, a conspiracy mentality, and distrust in institutions and professions,” the scientists wrote in the journal Psychological Medicine.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-hoax-government-misleading-man-made-survey-a9527876.html

Wow quite scary how many ignorant people there are about.

ek motor

Probably not too surprising to any regular reader of this forum :pac:

bob mcbob

robinph wrote: »

So what did Iran do wrong and what do we all need to watch out for?

Is the UK copying any of Irans policies on the lifting of lockdown?

Sorry I should have been more explicit. The lockdown ended the (prematurely) in middle of April but the surge in cases only started at the beginning of May.

robinph

Just got a very detailed email through from the kids school. Which years will start on which days, what time pick up and drop off is for each group, how the class rooms and outside areas will be rearranged, most time spent outside where possible and in separate areas for each group*, kids grouped with some reference to any potential out of school social mixing rather than existing classes, no need for school uniforms, how they will deal with younger kids who need a hug and a whole lot more.

Will be a shorter than normal school day for our kid, some years will end up being a bit longer due to the specified time for drop offs, and one afternoon a week it closes down for cleaning.

*Knew we were right to pick the local school with the biggest green space outside.

Akrasia

How does it work if a family as multiple children attending school? Are the parents of 3 schoolchildren supposed to drop them off and collect them 6 separate times a day?

bilston

Enzokk wrote: »

Some good news it seems,

Coronavirus: Immune clue sparks treatment hope



Finding an effective treatment for the disease will help with the easing of restrictions and a return to normality around the world.

Read that earlier, it sounds potentially very effective, but then we hear about these treatments once and how great they may be and then we never hear about them again.

If anyone is an expert on T cells please educate the rest of us on why this could be different!!

namloc1980

...

"And don't forget to stay within 3,247 fridges of your home".

paw patrol

More than a fifth of people believe that the coronavirus crisis is a hoax, new research suggests.

Similarly, more than a fifth (21 per cent) believe the virus is a hoax,

are these the same stats?- because both statements mean different things.
It is odd that 2 different statements have the same percentage ....so can only assume its' the same measure.

I suspect the 21% didn't say the virus was a hoax but crisis was a hoax.

i may be in that group - would depend on the actual question asked. You'd need to know what exact questions were asked of the people not the synopsis in the news.


I guess I'm ignorant. I'm doing alright for an ignorant person.

ancapailldorcha

bilston wrote: »

Read that earlier, it sounds potentially very effective, but then we hear about these treatments once and how great they may be and then we never hear about them again.

If anyone is an expert on T cells please educate the rest of us on why this could be different!!

Not quite an expert. Do you have a specific question?

T cells have on their surface a structure called a T cell receptor (TCR). TCR's are extremely specific. Cells called antigen presenting cells (APC's) will digest microbial proteins and present specific portions to T cells. If the sequence matches the TCR and specific criteria are met then the T cell activates. This usually entails proliferation and the production of signalling molecules called cytokines. Interleukin 7 (Il-7) is a cytokine. There are various types of helper T cell response. Th0, Th1, Th2 and Th17 were the main ones when I was studying the subject.

Each response has different characteristics and responds well to different classes of pathogen such as bacteria, viruses and yeasts. Il-7 is a growth factor and the London researchers cited in the article are hoping that it will be able to promote T cell numbers in patients to counter the apparent depletion of numbers observed in Covid-19 patients.

robinph

Akrasia wrote: »

How does it work if a family as multiple children attending school? Are the parents of 3 schoolchildren supposed to drop them off and collect them 6 separate times a day?

They didn't actually answer that in their FAQ, which could mean that they know there isn't going to be any cross over like that with the combination of years going back at the moment. Not a tricky one to resolve if needed though as it just means one kid for one group turns up early.

All kids turn up through the one entrance and get hand sanitiser before then getting ferried off to their designated area, usually some years have their own entrance and exits. Most complicated bit will be day one and having the kids all queuing up outside with the parents but not interacting with the others.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://twitter.com/RP131/status/1263823198170251265

VillageIdiot71

paw patrol wrote: »

I suspect the 21% didn't say the virus was a hoax but crisis was a hoax.

i may be in that group - would depend on the actual question asked. You'd need to know what exact questions were asked of the people not the synopsis in the news.

Full article here:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/coronavirus-conspiracy-beliefs-mistrust-and-compliance-with-government-guidelines-in-england/9D6401B1E58F146C738971C197407461

You are basically right on your specific point. The statement in the survey was a straight "The virus is a hoax."

Only 2.2% of people completely agreed with that statement. Another 3.5% "Agree a lot". 8.1% "Agree moderately" and 7.2% "Agree a little".

I'd guess the 15% agreeing moderately or a little are probably folk like your good self - not doubting the virus per se, but the claims made that it is so contagious and dangerous that we have to shut everything down.

And I take it even the 3.5% who "agree a lot" might still admit that there is a virus of some kind. So only 2.2% seem to dismiss the idea there is any virus.

And when you consider that many of the early claims made about the virus seem to have been far too extreme - with our Taoiseach saying that "up to" 80,000 people could die - 15% is actually quite a low proportion of the sample to be questioning the mainstream narrative.

riffmongous

The response of the British gov probably didn't help, I doubt the number is so high in most other countries

Enzokk

Why is government advice that if you had symptoms for Covid-19 you isolated and if no symptoms after 7 days you do not need to isolate any longer but someone from overseas without symptoms has to quarantine for 14 days? If you live with other people and you show symptoms then you are free to break isolation after 7 days but others in your house have to isolate for 14 days.

This is why there is chaos in the government messaging and their response. They somehow decided that the UK is special and you don't have to isolate if you don't show symptoms after 7 days, but the rest of the world advised 14 days. Now they have a mandatory 14 day quarantine, sensible, but they still have the 7 day advice for people to follow in certain circumstances. Surely the messaging is easier to understand if you just advised 14 day isolation?

But I guess that would be admission that their initial advice was wrong.

Joe_ Public

Would have been a good question today. As i understand it, the uk position is once you display symptoms you have seven days in which you can transmit the virus so that's their recommendation. If, otoh, you come into contact with an infected person, the advice is to isolate for 14 days. So on the basis they haven't displayed symptoms, travellers would come into the latter category.

Just to be clear, i dont believe the 7 day rule is in line with WHO advice but that's their position on it anyway.

AllForIt

Enzokk wrote: »

Why is government advice that if you had symptoms for Covid-19 you isolated and if no symptoms after 7 days you do not need to isolate any longer but someone from overseas without symptoms has to quarantine for 14 days? If you live with other people and you show symptoms then you are free to break isolation after 7 days but others in your house have to isolate for 14 days.

It is to do with the incubation period. I.e onset of symptoms is not day 1 of contracting the virus, one has already had it for a few days before symptoms develop, so a good few of the 14 days has been 'used up' by the time you get symptoms.

Therefore the government is not giving mixed advise on this rather you don't understand it which is not their fault.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/stay-at-home-guidance-for-households-with-possible-coronavirus-covid-19-infection

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=18956

Enzokk

AllForIt wrote: »

It is to do with the incubation period. I.e onset of symptoms is not day 1 of contracting the virus, one has already had it for a few days before symptoms develop, so a good few of the 14 days has been 'used up' by the time you get symptoms.

Therefore the government is not giving mixed advise on this rather you don't understand it which is not their fault.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/stay-at-home-guidance-for-households-with-possible-coronavirus-covid-19-infection

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=18956

Their advice may not be mixed, but it is more confusing than it needs to be. As you would see I explained the advice from the government and said it would be easier for everyone if they didn't have the 7 days advice for certain people only rather than the easier to remember 14 days for everyone.

Joe_ Public

Enzokk wrote: »

Their advice may not be mixed, but it is more confusing than it needs to be. As you would see I explained the advice from the government and said it would be easier for everyone if they didn't have the 7 days advice for certain people only rather than the easier to remember 14 days for everyone.

Agree. From most of the research it would seem that the normal period for viral shedding to remain after onset of symptoms is around 8 days in mild cases. But it can be longer than that. So in persisting with the 7 day rule, they are erring on the other side of the line - the non cautious one. It should be 14 days anyway. Bottom line.

S.M.B.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know of many people who've shown symptoms and isolated for 14 days? In Ireland or the UK, curious how many are sticking to the most crucial yet challenging restriction.

lainey_d_123

S.M.B. wrote: »

Out of curiosity, does anyone know of many people who've shown symptoms and isolated for 14 days? In Ireland or the UK, curious how many are sticking to the most crucial yet challenging restriction.

Yep. Everyone I know (10ish people) who had symptoms isolated for 14 days, except the couple who ended up in hospital. Most of them felt so awful that they wouldn't have wanted to leave the house.

robinph

S.M.B. wrote: »

Out of curiosity, does anyone know of many people who've shown symptoms and isolated for 14 days? In Ireland or the UK, curious how many are sticking to the most crucial yet challenging restriction.

The only mentions of isolating due to symptoms on my social feeds has been from people who have been suffering long past the two weeks. Whoever it is that has only mild symptoms either doesn't notice themselves, or those people are not posting about it on their timelines.

Zubeneschamali

robinph wrote: »

If it's already run through the care homes and vulnerable population would there be another 60,000 who would catch it? If its run through the healthy population and they didn't notice then who would die next time round? Or would it need a mutation to come back and take out more people?

Even with the terrible response so far in the UK, most people will not have been exposed. 0.5% deaths would be what, 325,000?

If the hospitals weather the next wave.

lainey_d_123

robinph wrote: »

The only mentions of isolating due to symptoms on my social feeds has been from people who have been suffering long past the two weeks. Whoever it is that has only mild symptoms either doesn't notice themselves, or those people are not posting about it on their timelines.

It's concerning how long this seems to go on for for some people. Couple of friends have had it really bad, one here and one in the US, both fit, healthy people in their thirties, and they've been really sick for weeks.

maebee

Cummings in a spot of bother, it seems:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8349129/Dominic-Cummings-investigated-police-breaking-coronavirus-lockdown-rules.html

devnull

No chance that he'll be gone, he's too important to resign or be sacked.

maebee

devnull wrote: »

No chance that he'll be gone, he's too important to resign or be sacked.

I'm sure you're right dev. Also sure that the former Scottish CMO will be a bit peeved.

Joe_ Public

I don't know will he be gone, staggering hypocrisy if not, but these guys have no standards anyway. Didnt his missus write some puff piece about poor dom being all locked away in bed in his London home, too ill to move a muscle? Was even a word of it true?

Enzokk

devnull wrote: »

No chance that he'll be gone, he's too important to resign or be sacked.

For someone so intelligent to be behind every little stunt the government pulls off he sure was stupid to be caught.

maebee wrote: »

I'm sure you're right dev. Also sure that the former Scottish CMO will be a bit peeved.

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I don't know will he be gone, staggering hypocrisy if not, but these guys have no standards anyway. Didnt his missus write some puff piece about poor dom being all locked away in bed in his London home, too ill to move a muscle? Was even a word of it true?

Not just the Scottish CMO, but Professor Neil Ferguson will surely watch this with interest. I am sure Matt Hancock will be quick to voice his anger at this blatant flaunting of the rules from someone who was there, listening in when the lockdown was discussed or initiating the lockdown himself, like he did when the story broke of the SAGE member. Let us remember, Ferguson was not being paid by the government and was only providing advice. Cummings is paid for being advisor to Johnson.

bilston

devnull wrote: »

No chance that he'll be gone, he's too important to resign or be sacked.

We will see...I think he's in trouble.

His defence is that his parents could help with childcare.

Literally millions of people in the UK could do with help with childcare from grandparents but they can't get it...because it's against the rules...and given Cummings had symptoms as t the time, it makes it much worse.

mugsymugsy

People missed funerals etc

It could turn people on Boris if he doesn't go / get sacked.

devnull

You'd have to be pretty gullible person if you were to believe that they were too ill to look after a kid but somehow able to drive nearly 300 miles to get some help with childcare. Doesn't add up to me.

https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1263939737552916504

Nothing surprising there for me, but still pretty disingenuous.

S.M.B.

Kuenssberg looking worse than ever posting the government's response in the original twitter thread breaking the story.

Joe_ Public

devnull wrote: »

You'd have to be pretty gullible person if you were to believe that they were too ill to look after a kid but somehow able to drive nearly 300 miles to get some help with childcare. Doesn't add up to me.

https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1263939737552916504

Nothing surprising there for me, but still pretty disingenuous.

He was too ill to even get out of bed for 10 days, she claims, yet he was spotted 250 miles north in his parents garden, playing with his kids (according to account in mirror/guardian anyway). Sounds like she was writing one of those screenplays "loosely" based on real events.

S.M.B.

I'm going to assume that his parents are in their 70s so bringing kids from a household where parents are showing symptoms to be be looked after by grandparents in their 70s sounds like an excuse that's just as bad as the initial breach of the rules.

Donald Trump

UK is now only 3 deaths per million less than Italy. 536 vs. 539. It will most likely surpass them tomorrow or Sunday. After that, Spain will be the next reference point at 612

Enzokk

Beth Rigby correcting the BBC,

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1263948583222554631?s=20

If the story is as reported that he broke the lockdown rules while he was sick and not just like the Scottish CMO or Neil Ferguson, then there is no way he can stay on in his job.

This doesn't mean he will quit or be asked to resign, but the negative stories this will generate for the next 3 weeks until the next PMQ's where Starmer will ask Johnson why his advisor is allowed to break the rules will be overwhelming. I actually hope that he doesn't resign, it will make for fun headlines for the next few weeks at least.

Edit: It is time for Kuenssberg to go as well. This is unacceptable,

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1263914724305055745?s=20

Why is she replying as the Political Editor of the BBC to the Political Editor of the Daily Mail? Does she think the same sources would not have reached out to Pippa Crerar to correct the story? She really is nothing more than a government mouthpiece any longer and her form of journalism is part of the problem. She has been quick to pass on the No.10 source reading of the situation but not actually said anything about why this is a big deal. Useless waste of tax payer money at the moment.

Arghus

Enzokk wrote: »

Beth Rigby correcting the BBC,

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1263948583222554631?s=20

If the story is as reported that he broke the lockdown rules while he was sick and not just like the Scottish CMO or Neil Ferguson, then there is no way he can stay on in his job.

This doesn't mean he will quit or be asked to resign, but the negative stories this will generate for the next 3 weeks until the next PMQ's where Starmer will ask Johnson why his advisor is allowed to break the rules will be overwhelming. I actually hope that he doesn't resign, it will make for fun headlines for the next few weeks at least.

Cummings will find a way to weasel out of this.

Seamai

Donald Trump wrote: »

UK is now only 3 deaths per million less than Italy. 536 vs. 539. It will most likely surpass them tomorrow or Sunday. After that, Spain will be the next reference point at 612

And not a day goes by without seeing an article saying that the figure for deaths is massively understated.