The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

Professor Moriarty

hotmail.com wrote: »

He may resign later tonight after the Sunday papers have gone to print.

I think you're right. His position is untenable. Keeping him on board now would make a mockery of what ordinary people put up with during lockdown.

devnull

Enzokk wrote: »

Press briefing is over and Shapps just changed the government advice on the fly to protect Cummings.

https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/1264217876732317697?s=20

https://twitter.com/jessbrammar/status/1264217644384817159?s=20

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1264218078184964102?s=20

I think this briefing made things worse. Now the government advice is open for interpretation and if there is a second lockdown then there is no real need to follow government advice.

The Government have just essentially prioritised protecting one of their own over the lives of those people in the country and that is absolutely staggering but the worst thing is it honestly doesn't surprise me.

The whole carry on when Johnson was in hospital was handled in a way that made it seem that he was vastly more important than the public as a whole, signposted that they don't really give a damn about the public.

Then Johnson got out and praises the nurses who saved him and could have got the virus by doing so and then tried to force them and others to get their credit cards out and pay if they got the virus by saving peoples lives.

If Johnson was so ill as he says he was and he and his cabinet still tried to extort money out of the people who he claims may have saved his life, then it tells you what kind of person he is and what kind of cabinet he has appointed.

All we have seen today is what we already know. The public don't matter. The leadership at the top of the Conservatives only cares about itself and looking after each other, the public don't matter it's an insular members club which aims to look after the self preservation of each other.

It's no wonder the deaths are so high. They really don't care about anything other than themselves. The state the UK is in right now, what with Coronavirus, Brexit and this Government. Literally the history books will not be kind at all when this period is looked back on in a few decades time..

The Tories are typical of an out of touch government that has been in power too long, they have been in power for so long that they are smug, self serving and do not feel they have to earn the votes of the electorate and can just do what they want.

The scary part is there is 4 more years of this, untold damage could be done in that time.

munsterlegend

hotmail.com wrote: »

He may resign later tonight after the Sunday papers have gone to print.

He won’t resign or be sacked. That’s what happens when you have a large majority.

maebee

munsterlegend wrote: »

He won’t resign or be sacked. That’s what happens when you have a large majority.

He definitely won't resign. He may have to be sacked.

martingriff

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think you're right. His position is untenable. Keeping him on board now would make a mockery of what ordinary people put up with during lockdown.

If he does it would be curious who takes his position and how close they are to him. As he may be "gone" but may not be gone

There was a guy on BBC now in absolute hysterics that people would say a bad word that they are in thewrong

devnull

So essentially what we have learned today.

Children and Grandchildren without symptoms cannot visit their grandparents because they might spread coronavirus to them.
BUT
Children and grandchildren can visit their grandparents, as long as they have coronavirus, despite the fact it could harm them.

Makes a lot of sense, right? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

cmac2009

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think you're right. His position is untenable. Keeping him on board now would make a mockery of what ordinary people put up with during lockdown.

I'd be absolutely shocked if he does resign, he seems too powerful, and with various ministers - even the bloody AG - coming out in support of him earlier that's a good indication of No.10 resolve to back him to the hilt. He seem's resolutely unremorseful as well, but that's par for the course with this government.

Harry Palmr

Even the Spectator has waded in (Mrs Dom wrote her account in that publication)

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-dominic-cummings-must-go

free to read if you have been very careful previously!

He must go and he must go now. There is no alternative, no other way out, no means by which this ship can be saved. The only question is the number of casualties Cummings will take with him.

Judged by the cabinet’s performance on social media this weekend, the answer to that question is also simple: all of them. It cannot be stressed too often that the government’s authority during this crisis is moral much more than it is legal. The lockdown measures were presented as a great national collective endeavour and they were accepted by the public on those terms too. Now it seems they were optional so long as, that is, you have the correct connections.

devnull

martingriff wrote: »

If he does it would be curious who takes his position and how close they are to him. As he may be "gone" but may not be gone

And that would be my worry too, I have seen people in my career who were sacked because the company really had no other option and most people assumed it would be the end of it.

A short while later some consultants were hired and it later turned out that the very same person who was fired from the company was working through the consultants, but from home in the background and through an intermediary.

fr336

munsterlegend wrote: »

He won’t resign or be sacked. That’s what happens when you have a large majority.

Cummings has no majority. He's not an MP let alone a member of the British cabinet. Where is this power of his coming from? Can you imagine Blair not sacking Alastair Campbell, especially during a pandemic?

devnull

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Even the Spectator has waded in (Mrs Dom wrote her account in that publication)

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-dominic-cummings-must-go

free to read if you have been very careful previously!

I wouldn't be surprised if we soon see one of the biggest dead cat strategies of all time.

I fully expect to see some news in relation to vaccinations, trials that have made some amazing progress in the last few days and to talk up heavily the finding of a cure or an effective treatment.

With their history of dead cats they're not going to sit back and not produce one.

dfx-

fr336 wrote: »

Cummings has no majority. He's not an MP let alone a member of the British cabinet. Where is this power of his coming from? Can you imagine Blair not sacking Alastair Campbell, especially during a pandemic?

He has yearned for the power and control he demonstrably has now. Backbench MPs don't matter in a majority of 86. Everything is against him resigning himself especially to a media furore.

Joe_ Public

I've no idea why cummings is still around anyway. He's toxic, even by tory standards. If Ianucci was only starting to think about a spads sitcom now he'd abandon it because he could not match the reality. Cummings job was to see brexit home, after that i thought he'd be a liability. But seems to have some hold on Johnson the pm doesnt want to let go. Long term i think this will damage him, if not prove his undoing.

munsterlegend

fr336 wrote: »

Cummings has no majority. He's not an MP let alone a member of the British cabinet. Where is this power of his coming from? Can you imagine Blair not sacking Alastair Campbell, especially during a pandemic?

I am fully aware he is not an mp. Govts with large majorities can do pretty much as they like so Cummings won’t be going anywhere.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

UK is now only 3 deaths per million less than Italy. 536 vs. 539. It will most likely surpass them tomorrow or Sunday. After that, Spain will be the next reference point at 612

At 541 each today.


Having passed Italy on absolute numbers a while back, the UK will pass it on percentage terms tomorrow.



That comes despite having had those few extra weeks warning to prepare and get ready for it. It's very sad

fr336

munsterlegend wrote: »

I am fully aware he is not an mp. Govts with large majorities can do pretty much as they like so Cummings won’t be going anywhere.

I wasn't having a go at your post I was more using it to question this amount of power for a government flunky during a pandemic.

BonnieSituation

Donald Trump wrote: »

At 541 each today.


Having passed Italy on absolute numbers a while back, the UK will pass it on percentage terms tomorrow.



That comes despite having had those few extra weeks warning to prepare and get ready for it. It's very sad

And yet, let's all clap for the nhs.

Acosta

devnull wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if we soon see one of the biggest dead cat strategies of all time.

I fully expect to see some news in relation to vaccinations, trials that have made some amazing progress in the last few days and to talk up heavily the finding of a cure or an effective treatment.

With their history of dead cats they're not going to sit back and not produce one.

Yeah, possibly, although with the Starmer buying a field non story and the knighthood for the old war veteran, I think the Tory rags may be running out of dead cat/look over there distractions.

I would however at least expect those rags to make as little out of this as possible.

The thing is like Trump supporters, these Tories can do no wrong in the eyes of a huge chunk of their supporters because they they have legitimised their caveman beliefs.

devnull

YouGov Poll on Cummings now in:
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1264244682185375744

Enzokk

Acosta wrote: »

Yeah, possibly, although with the Starmer buying a field non story and the knighthood for the old war veteran, I think the Tory rags may be running out of dead cat/look over there distractions.

I would however at least expect those rags to make as little out of this as possible.

The thing is like Trump supporters, these Tories can do no wrong in the eyes of a huge chunk of their supporters because they they have legitimised their caveman beliefs.

I think a lot of Tory voters are actually tired of their MP's, but Labour didn't give them a viable alternative. The 2017 election saw a surge of young voters and that momentum made Corbyn look good, together with a dismal May leading the Tories. By 2019 and with the continued antisemitism problem Corbyn had (while probably not antisemitic his affiliations with Hamas and the IRA meant there was 0% change he could be PM) had a lot of people change their minds about him.

Now that Starmer is leader he looks the part. I am sorry to say this but it plays a role. Why else did the newspapers print the picture of Miliband eating the bacon sandwich? It was to discredit him in the eyes of many who couldn't see him leading the country. Starmer will not have this problem.

So unless things actually goes well for the people in the country in the next 4 years, which I don't see with Covid-19 and Brexit, people who are not paid up members of either side will find a Starmer led Labour easier to vote for, no matter what the papers try to print about him.

I suspect you will find the tabloids also start supporting him if they see the tide is turning against the government. Nobody likes backing a loser and if it looks like the Tories are losing the papers will jump ship.

ChikiChiki

Cummings and the Govts explanation around the trip to Durham makes absolutely no sense. Imagine catching the Covid along with the kids and saying right I'll leave Dublin and just head down to the elderly folks in West Galway.

What the actual ****. His position is absolutely untenable. The arrogance of him swanning out of his house today.

Starmer will murder Johnson this week at PMQs.

Joe_ Public

Been curious about this "safeguarding clause" Jenny Harries talked about, on which Cummings was justified to take the action he did, so did a bit of looking into it.

In the guidelines where it states not to leave the house, one exception is "to help a vulnerable person" and links to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006.

According to this, "a reasonable excuse to leave the house is to provide care or assistance, including relevant personal care within the meaning of Paragraph 7 (3b) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006."

I found Schedule 4 but Par 7 seemed only to have something to do with Wales so no idea what to make of that.

But the point is when these things were supposed to have crystal clear clarity so there can be no dangerous ambiguity, Harries seems to be referring to obscure clauses buried deep in legislation in order to get Cummings off the hook. At least Shapps just played dumb and parroted the same know nothing line over and over.

Enzokk

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Cummings and the Govts explanation around the trip to Durham makes absolutely no sense. Imagine catching the Covid along with the kids and saying right I'll leave Dublin and just head down to the elderly folks in West Galway.

What the actual ****. His position is absolutely untenable. The arrogance of him swanning out of his house today.

Starmer will murder Johnson this week at PMQs.

Unfortunately parliament is in recess so the next PMQ's will only be on the 3rd June. They have been working hard and deserve another break so soon after the Easter break. Not like there is a crises going on or anything that would mean they have to be working or anything.:rolleyes:

bilston

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And yet, let's all clap for the nhs.

What's wrong with clapping for NHS workers?

Enzokk

This gif sum up the new government position on lockdown rules,

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1264254428976222210?s=20

Kermit.de.frog

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Cummings and the Govts explanation around the trip to Durham makes absolutely no sense. Imagine catching the Covid along with the kids and saying right I'll leave Dublin and just head down to the elderly folks in West Galway.

What the actual ****. His position is absolutely untenable. The arrogance of him swanning out of his house today.

Starmer will murder Johnson this week at PMQs.

If the professor hadn't been hounded out for the same thing Cummings could probably remain.

But it's totally untenable after that.

Kermit.de.frog

Enzokk

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If the professor hadn't been hounded out for the same thing Cummings could probably remain.

But it's totally untenable after that.

Its a little funny that the story about the professor was only released to take attention off from the UK overtaking Italy on total deaths. If they didn't rush to avoid criticism by throwing him under the bus then they would have made it easier for themselves during this debacle. I believe this is situational irony much like the Alanis Morissette song.

ChikiChiki

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I've no idea why cummings is still around anyway. He's toxic, even by tory standards. If Ianucci was only starting to think about a spads sitcom now he'd abandon it because he could not match the reality. Cummings job was to see brexit home, after that i thought he'd be a liability. But seems to have some hold on Johnson the pm doesnt want to let go. Long term i think this will damage him, if not prove his undoing.

The tweets today by the cabinet clearly show that Cummings has massive power in the Tory party. I am astonished that Sunak is towing the line who I always seen as different to the rest of Boris crew of useful idiots.

It is bizarre, almost like a spell the hold he seems to have. A creepy individual.

Enzokk

When you have the former head of the DPP, you will find a letter like this,

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1264222431587241986?s=20

Starmer is probably the one person you don't want to oppose you. Johnson would have loved the firebrand Corbyn in charge who would have passionately been upset by the breach of the lockdown rules. Having someone go through the statement line by line is not what you want at this time.

Guy:Incognito

I believe Cummings will do the right thing and resign.

Paving the way for his replacement to slot right in. The mysterious man in the hat , Cominic Dummings.

Kermit.de.frog

Ooops!

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1264262838622830601

Patser

Just came in to post that too Kermit - if he went back again, after he had covid and not in anyway excused as being in his child's interest, he has to be toast.

Amazed to see so many Ministers putting their names and reputations on the line today to protect someone who is still only a special advisor

Kermit.de.frog

It gets better!

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1264265807653208066

He's done now and has made all those ministers today look like fools.

maebee

Surely he has to go

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/dominic-cummings-ignored-coronavirus-lockdown-22075857.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Joe_ Public

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ooops!

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1264262838622830601

Drip, drip, drip.

So he was seen out and about during his first visit AND also made another trip after his recovery. Getting mighty interesting now.

Curious that they had this story six weeks ago but seemingly sat on it until now. Probably more stuff to come yet too.

Enzokk

Patser wrote: »

Just came in to post that too Kermit - if he went back again, after he had covid and not in anyway excused as being in his child's interest, he has to be toast.

Amazed to see so many Ministers putting their names and reputations on the line today to protect someone who is still only a special advisor

This tweet sums it up, those ministers will be right idiots if this is true.

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1264265932572102656?s=20

Enzokk

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Drip, drip, drip.

So he was seen out and about during his first visit AND also made another trip after his recovery. Getting mighty interesting now.

Curious that they had this story six weeks ago but seemingly sat on it until now. Probably more stuff to come yet too.

I think they were waiting for Durham police to confirm if they went to the house. They had the story for a long time but nothing to confirm it with. I think the police confirming they went to the house officially is what allowed the story to be printed. At least that is how I saw it intimated earlier.

Guy:Incognito

Well now, thats just an unfortunate development.......

banie01

Given that 2 fairly senior medical/scientific folk have bitten the dust already over breaching Social Distancing without actually being infected, whilst Cummings has attended SAGE, knew the rules and flaunted them whilst exposed if not infected he has to go.

Either Boris fires him, or Boris calls a halt to social distancing.
Which given Cummings was the driver of the UK's original laissez-faire herd immunity policy is likely a win for Cummings in any event.

The sentiment in the UK on this incident seems quite vehement.

Joe_ Public

Enzokk wrote: »

This tweet sums it up, those ministers will be right idiots if this is true.

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1264265932572102656?s=20

Yeah, as i said above they had this story 6 weeks ago, but obviously sat on it and worked it together so they had it perfect when it was ready to go. Been executed to extract maximum damage. Brilliantly done.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcZzlPGnKdU

hotmail.com

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yeah, as i said above they had this story 6 weeks ago, but obviously sat on it and worked it together so they had it perfect when it was ready to go. Been executed to extract maximum damage. Brilliantly done.

Journalists shouldn't be bothered with exerting maximum damage. Journalists uncover information, release it and then let the public and other politicians take the next steps.

If they had this information weeks ago, it's disturbing that they haven't released the information earlier.

Kermit.de.frog

hotmail.com wrote: »

Journalists shouldn't be bothered with exerting maximum damage. Journalists uncover information, release it and then let the public and other politicians take the next steps.

If they had this information weeks ago, it's disturbing that they haven't released the information earlier.

This is Cummings were talking about. He's very use to these tactics himself.

Joe_ Public

hotmail.com wrote: »

Journalists shouldn't be bothered with exerting maximum damage. Journalists uncover information, release it and then let the public and other politicians take the next steps.

If they had this information weeks ago, it's disturbing that they haven't released the information earlier.

You know what? Journalists should at all times be professional - obviously i exclude rags like the sun, mail, express etc - but given the way Cummings has treated the media (mirror was among publications banned from downing st briefings for example), I'm going to go ahead and forgive them for making this just a little bit personal on this occasion. Anyway, taking time to firm up a story and get it right is always in the public interest. Not that disturbing at all.

devnull

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yeah, as i said above they had this story 6 weeks ago, but obviously sat on it and worked it together so they had it perfect when it was ready to go. Been executed to extract maximum damage. Brilliantly done.

The Government's pathological dishonesty has caught up with them here.

They probably saw the story and thought that they needed to protect Dom, make all of the excuses, say whatever needed to be said, spin it, thinking that there would not be any more to the story and they could see it off and everything would calm down. That has been a common Tory approach recently.

Those who were investigating him may well have noticed this and thought that the Tories wouldn't change their spots and would resort to the usual pathological behaviour, so only fed them part of the story in the knowledge that there may be more to come which would demolish the Governments spin.

The government will claim a set-up by the media, but it's hard to feel much sympathy and I have to say, it's good to see them finally get a form of comeuppance after all the games they have been playing themselves and if the Government had been honest and transparent, this wouldn't even be an issue anyway.

hotmail.com

devnull wrote: »

The Government's pathological dishonesty has caught up with them here.

They probably saw the story and thought that they needed to protect Dom, make all of the excuses, say whatever needed to be said, spin it, thinking that there would not be any more to the story and they could see it off and everything would calm down. That has been a common Tory approach recently.

Those who were investigating him may well have noticed this and thought that the Tories wouldn't change their spots and would resort to the usual pathological behaviour, so only fed them part of the story in the knowledge that there may be more to come which would demolish the Governments spin.

The government will claim a set-up by the media, but it's hard to feel much sympathy and I have to say, it's good to see them finally get a form of comeuppance after all the games they have been playing themselves and if the Government had been honest and transparent, this wouldn't even be an issue anyway.

Cummings gone and some other Tory will fill his place. The Brits voted for a Tory government a few months ago.

Acosta

Surely Raab will still fart out another few tweets in Cummings defence later on. There seems to be no amount of **** that guy won't eat for his bosses.

CrabRevolution

hotmail.com wrote: »

Cummings gone and some other Tory will fill his place. The Brits voted for a Tory government a few months ago.

So what? Nobody is claiming they didn't.

Winning an election doesn't grant you and all who work with you immunity from scrutiny and criticism for the next 5 years.

devnull

Beth Rigby has summarised the sightings of Cummings nicely here:
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1264276044086939648

I didn't realise the one about Barnard Castle thats now on the Guardian website, that means a third breach.