The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

O'Neill

Dave0301 wrote: »

He mustn't have been impressed with how Boris handled it yesterday. He is going to have to step in and do it himself.

Surely it will have to be an apology...if it is anything other than that he will just rile the public up further.

The thing is if he does apologise or resign, where does that leave the Government? I thought he didn't do anything wrong, according to Johnson? This will probably do even more damage tbh

A Dub in Glasgo

Are we now seeing an acknowledgement that Cummings is the real PM here?

Timberrrrrrrr

Dave0301 wrote: »

He mustn't have been impressed with how Boris handled it yesterday. He is going to have to step in and do it himself.

Surely it will have to be an apology...if it is anything other than that he will just rile the public up further.

Please let someone drop a bombshell into his lap.

Please let someone drop a bombshell into his lap.

Please let someone drop a bombshell into his lap.

Please let someone drop a bombshell into his lap.

Please let someone drop a bombshell into his lap.

dfx-

Probably to announce that he has full faith in Boris and he will be a great PM under his tutelage.

The headlines tomorrow will now be this statement...it falls into another day. Has a Special Advisor ever been given a televised statement to explain himself? PM and cabinet going out to bat for them and still it hasn't worked?

Joe_ Public

He's simply trying to take back control of a narrative they lost as soon as the first web of lies was spun on Friday and they completely misjudged the public mood. And have little doubt he will fail.

ChikiChiki

Dave0301 wrote: »

He mustn't have been impressed with how Boris handled it yesterday. He is going to have to step in and do it himself.

Surely it will have to be an apology...if it is anything other than that he will just rile the public up further.

I will tell you exactly how this will go.

Media harassment yada yada, family bereavement, an attempt to garner sympathy and then wrap up with getting Brexit done.

FWIW, I don't agree with him being shouted down outside the family home but I cannot see an apology coming. That would be an admission of guilt which is not his style.

swampgas

dfx- wrote: »

Probably to announce that he has full faith in Boris and he will be a great PM under his tutelage.

You may be joking, but seriously, someone should ask him "Does the prime minister have the full confidence of Dominic Cummings?".

robinph

If he's taking questions then it's not a resignation.

swampgas

ChikiChiki wrote: »

FWIW, I don't agree with him being shouted down outside the family home but I cannot see an apology coming. That would be an admission of guilt which is not his style.

When DC appears to be unreachable by legal and normal means, of course people are going to shout at him in the street. It's the only means left to them by a corrupt PM and corrupt political system.

Enzokk

I think if there is an apology it will be for how people feel again,

"I am sorry if people feel I have broken the spirit of the lockdown rules."

Don't think there will be one though.

Beasty

O'Neill wrote: »

Cummings to make a statement today aparently taking questions. Beggers belief

Probably questions via "dodgy" internet feeds;)

Joe_ Public

Absolute zero chance of an apology I'd say and very doubtful for even the non apology apology either. Just implies an admission of guilt which only begs further questions as why he wouldn't at least offer to resign.

devnull

He's going to plead the perfect father argument, use the autistic and uncle death as an excuse and probably call out the media and invoke Brexit as a reason.

This whole thing is ridiculous and this shows that the Government have completely lost the plot and are the most out of touch I've ever seen. The lengths they go to defend him must mean he has something big on them.

Right now a friend of mine who is a teacher, who has lost a colleague and a friend to the virus, is looking after her disabled mother who is a staunch Brexiteer and her mother is constantly chipping away at her saying she is a disgrace for not going back to school and should be ashamed of herself for trying to block Brexit and being part of the mainstream media campaign.

There are other families which are like this I am sure. The tension between people during this virus is becoming really bad and is going to result in a mental health epidemic that is going to be huge and the Government are pretty much adding fuel to the fire constantly. People cannot get a break from this situation and my friend feels that she herself will have a breakdown soon.

As someone who has been in the UK since just before lockdown, honestly I'm starting to tire of this whole situation and it would be nice to have a few days break from the current situation. The whole divisive Brexit debate and everything that has happened since has caused so much tension, and barely a few weeks later the Coronavirus situation started.

It is not the Tories fault that coronavirus came to the UK, but the way that they have handled it and the way they have played people off one another and have showed much more care for each other rather than that of the physical and mental health people they claim to represent is an absolute disgrace. They simply do not care about anyone other than themselves.

Honestly, I appeal to any Irish person is living in the UK and has a viable route out of the country, get out as soon as you can. The ship is not only sinking, but they're putting new holes in it every day to make it sink quicker. The UK has many dark days ahead and anyone who is still of working age should get out for a better future.

Those of us from afar in Ireland can think this is terrible, but imagine being an average person living there all their life with no way out of it who are horrified by it, it's terrible. I've seen people who have never got involved in politics be very angered by this and I've seen the most mild people lose their temper over it.

robinph

Beasty wrote: »

Probably questions via "dodgy" internet feeds;)

Very likely.

But where are they going to host it? If it is broadcast from No.10 then that is a serous misuse of the state infrastructure for a press conference by a private individual, who just happens to be employed by the PM. Is he going to run it from his home office, and then have the kid wander in part way through for extra sympathy points?

Joe_ Public

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Absolute zero chance of an apology I'd say and very doubtful for even the non apology apology either. Just implies an admission of guilt which only begs further questions as why he wouldn't at least offer to resign.

I think more likely is another double down. Probably a statement saying specifically that he won't apologise, as he has nothing to apologise for and has done nothing wrong

Joe_ Public

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think more likely is another double down. Probably a statement saying specifically that he won't apologise, as he has nothing to apologise for and has done nothing wrong

I would think so. Reeks of desperation to me anyway. Unprecedented move which would be completely last resort for them. Before yesterday briefing, people like Tom Newton Dunn were suggesting Johnson was intending to draw a line under the story and failed miserably. Cummings probably feels he can do better himself, we'll have to see about that. It's getting beyond farce at this stage.

dfx-

devnull wrote: »

It is not the Tories fault that coronavirus came to the UK, but the way that they have handled it and the way they have played people off one another and have showed much more care for each other rather than that of the physical and mental health people they claim to represent is an absolute disgrace. They simply do not care about anyone other than themselves.

I have been here for three years and Brexit does not affect daily life yet - it was all in the ether. Coronavirus is very much here and it's here now.

Coronavirus exposes the sell off of public infrastructure in the UK over 40-50 years and the manufacturing exodus. They can't cope with this because they have systematically dismantled everything public except the NHS and they have been really trying hard to break that up and make it increasingly private with US lobby groups. Cummings wants to deconstruct even the civil service.

It is a particular crisis that needs a strong state response and the Tories were never that and these ones have no idea. They want schools back in so parents can get back to work.

AllForIt

Enzokk wrote: »

I don't know what your point is. I don't want to have the wrong understanding of our point. You have a habit of posting a tweet and just leaving it there without pointing out what you want us to see. Yes, we see journalists and photographers not keeping to the social distancing rules, but what does it have to do with what we are discussing? Are you trying to deflect and just cause confusion on the thread? Why else not explain why you are posting this?

I make a point and you say what has this to do with what 'we're' discussing. Is that the way it work's here, I can only make a point in relation to what 'we're' discussing. As if this thread is a private meeting and I've just barraged in uninvited. It does actually feel like that.

I have asked you before to clarify, but seeing as you don't I am going to assume you are just out to deflect and cause confusion on the thread as you don't like what is being discussed, unless you tell us what you mean when someone is confused on a post of yours.

I mean you posted the video of the 2 police officers at the door of Cummings house, what were you trying to say?

You could not possibly have missed the point. Raising a point that noone else raised could hardly be described as deflecting.

That is fine, not really answering the question directly. So you are happy that he and his wife broke the guidance to go into isolation if you show symptoms.

It is of absolutely no concern to me whatsoever. I'm neither happy or unhappy about it. If I had a vendetta against DC I might very well have an opinion on it.

Joe_ Public

robinph wrote: »

Very likely.

But where are they going to host it? If it is broadcast from No.10 then that is a serous misuse of the state infrastructure for a press conference by a private individual, who just happens to be employed by the PM. Is he going to run it from his home office, and then have the kid wander in part way through for extra sympathy points?

Actually totally against the Westminster code of conduct for a spad to do this. Another rule being broken to defend himself against allegations of breaking other rules. It's getting beyond ridiculous now and Johnson is toeing a dangerous line here i reckon.

Strazdas

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Actually totally against the Westminster code of conduct for a spad to do this. Another rule being broken to defend himself against allegations of breaking other rules. It's getting beyond ridiculous now and Johnson is toeing a dangerous line here i reckon.

Yes, it's normally only elected politicians or senior civil servants (people like Dr. Holohan) who give televised press conferences.

HBC08

I'm guessing he will double down,put it all on the left wing media, the autistic child and the dead uncle will get a mention. Crucially he will put a Brexit spin on it,this maybe done in a subtle way or not but he will do it and it'll work.

The fact that he lied,is a complete hypocrite ,is an unelected advisor who effectively runs the UK,etc are facts,facts and reality do not matter in UK politics now.Its a shocking situation.

MadYaker

What time is the shadow PM doing this press conference at?

devnull

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Actually totally against the Westminster code of conduct for a spad to do this. Another rule being broken to defend himself against allegations of breaking other rules. It's getting beyond ridiculous now and Johnson is toeing a dangerous line here i reckon.

I agree with you on this, but who is going to stop him?

Rules, democracy, peoples mental and physical health and saving lives are important to us.

However Self-Preservation of those in Government and their friends is all that matters to them.

Essentially it doesn't matter how you win, as long as you do.

Joe_ Public

Strazdas wrote: »

Yes, it's normally only elected politicians or senior civil servants (people like Dr. Holohan) who give televised press conferences.

Yes, it's there in black and white in the spads code, No.12 under the section, dealing with the media states:

12. "Special advisers must not take public part in political controversy, through any form of statement whether in speeches or letters to the press, or in books, social media, articles or leaflets. They must observe discretion and express comment with moderation, avoiding personal attacks, and would not normally speak in public for their Minister or the Department."

AllForIt

nacho libre wrote: »

If you really saw the bigger picture, as you put it, you would accept he broke the rules and his position is untenable given he was at the heart of devising the message about the important of staying home to contain the virus. There are countless people in Britain who could claim extenuating circumstances, but they abided by the rules for the common good. Morag's excuse for his actions is very hurtful and disrespectful to all those who made heartbreaking sacrifices in order to help stem the spread of the virus.

I don't know for certain he broke the rules. I am not going to make a decision on it based on what I see in the British press to date especially given the way they presented the story. I think he should give his side of the story at least and I don't think it's up to Boris to give Cummings side of the story at the briefings. Most ppl here have already decided he should go without hearing from Cummings. There are a handful of British journalist that have actually made this point and they're not right wingers either.

Joe_ Public

devnull wrote: »

I agree with you on this, but who is going to stop him?

Rules, democracy, peoples mental and physical health and saving lives are important to us.

However Self-Preservation of those in Government and their friends is all that matters to them.

Essentially it doesn't matter how you win, as long as you do.

Not the prime minister anyway, the self proclaimed modern incarnation of Winston Churchill.

RollieFingers

Leroy42 wrote: »

Nothing says true Brexit more than fighting to keep an unelected bureaucrat in his job where he can be allowed break the rules.

The irony of the Brexit mob now blindly supporting an unelected bureaucrat is gas, weren't they were very much opposed to being told what to do by unelected bureaucrat's in the EU?

Strazdas

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yes, it's there in black and white in the spads code, No.12 under the section, dealing with the media states:

12. "Special advisers must not take public part in political controversy, through any form of statement whether in speeches or letters to the press, or in books, social media, articles or leaflets. They must observe discretion and express comment with moderation, avoiding personal attacks, and would not normally speak in public for their Minister or the Department."

Crikey.....that means him giving a live televised press conference is effectively banned under their own rules.

(Not that anyone in this Tory administration would be remotely bothered about breaking the rules).

Professor Moriarty

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yes, it's there in black and white in the spads code, No.12 under the section, dealing with the media states:

12. "Special advisers must not take public part in political controversy, through any form of statement whether in speeches or letters to the press, or in books, social media, articles or leaflets. They must observe discretion and express comment with moderation, avoiding personal attacks, and would not normally speak in public for their Minister or the Department."

That would constitute an excellent question for Dom during his press conference.

Seth Brundle

AllForIt wrote: »

I don't know for certain he broke the rules.

erm, even Johnson has admitted that DC travelled 260 miles which was not allowed given that DC and his wife were both in self-isolation because they had the virus.

paw patrol

RollieFingers wrote: »

The irony of the Brexit mob now blindly supporting an unelected bureaucrat is gas, weren't they were very much opposed to being told what to do by unelected bureaucrat's in the EU?

It's not the same....bit lame you would think this.

VinLieger

AllForIt wrote: »

I don't know for certain he broke the rules.

This is such typical fvcking "ill die supporting my team" bullsh1t.


Its been pointed out again and again that the rules were for no reason should you leave your house yet your still questioning if he broke the rules?


It looks like he took the same journey at least twice and possibly even three times now, there is literally no question anymore that he broke the rules.

devnull

dfx- wrote: »

I have been here for three years and Brexit does not affect daily life yet - it was all in the ether. Coronavirus is very much here and it's here now.

Coronavirus exposes the sell off of public infrastructure in the UK over 40-50 years and the manufacturing exodus. They can't cope with this because they have systematically dismantled everything public except the NHS and they have been really trying hard to break that up and make it increasingly private with US lobby groups. Cummings wants to deconstruct even the civil service.

It is a particular crisis that needs a strong state response and the Tories were never that and these ones have no idea. They want schools back in so parents can get back to work.

It depends on who you ask. Generally it hasn't effected people a massive amount, but it has really damaged relationships between older and younger members of families. I've seen that in my own family as the older ones are constantly ramming their views down peoples throats and acting like they are superior and are know it alls at every opportunity.

Some of my UK friends have similar experiences so they don't talk about politics with older people or older members of their family because it's just not worth the hassle, but these Brexiteers just cannot resist a dig every now and then. I've alone seen 5 or 6 people I know in the UK moan about Cummings and pretty much every single one of them has had some older family member or older person jump on them and tell them that they're still bitter about Brexit.

From the moment I moved back to Ireland in 2005 until about 2017 I was barely in the UK, save for a week or so a year at the most, but in the last couple of years I've been there a fair bit more and the change from what the country used to be before I moved back to Ireland and in 2017 was stark. Yes the country had problems before that but they just seemed to get much worse in the time that I wasn't living there.

Agree that the country needs a very strong Government but you are never going to get that from a Tory party, especially one which has been elected on a platform that they have where many of the more moderate, experienced and wise figures were either deselected, retired or had already left the party. Instead you have a group of people ill suited for the offices they hold who are selfish and arrogant and only care about each other.

As I said before though, the opposition wasn't exactly up to much during the time of the last few elections though and Jeremy Corbyn wasn't the saint that the left like to paint him out to be, I've had first hand experience of that in person with him. The left needs to rally around Starmer now and put it's differences aside, all Labour infighting needs to halt, so many terms of the Tories has destroyed the country and it may already be too late, another term for this out of touch and arrogant will probably result in total destruction of the little that the UK has left.

paw patrol

Can somebody tell me what he did that was wrong?

If he was leaving kids with his parents cos he was sick , isn't that what the deputy chief medical officer said to do.

Have i missed something?

devnull

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That would constitute an excellent question for Dom during his press conference.

I have no doubt that there will be some form of selection involved in the questions.

paw patrol

VinLieger wrote: »

This is such typical fvcking "ill die supporting my team" bullsh1t.


Its been pointed out again and again that the rules were for no reason should you leave your house yet your still questioning if he broke the rules?


It looks like he took the same journey at least twice and possibly even three times now, there is literally no question anymore that he broke the rules.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

erm, even Johnson has admitted that DC travelled 260 miles which was not allowed given that DC and his wife were both in self-isolation because they had the virus.

but the deputy chief medical officer stated on tv that if you are ill you can drop kids with family.
i'm sure you've seen that video.

Of course he could be lying that he was sick

this stinks of some sort of brexit sore losers and a slow news day

Joe_ Public

paw patrol wrote: »

Can somebody tell me what he did that was wrong?

If he was leaving kids with his parents cos he was sick , isn't that what the deputy chief medical officer said to do.

Have i missed something?

His parents are in the vulnerable cohort so should not have had any contact with either kid or parents and there's no evidence the child was even looked after anyone other than his parents for the duration of their stay.

Seth Brundle

paw patrol wrote: »

Can somebody tell me what he did that was wrong?

If he was leaving kids with his parents cos he was sick , isn't that what the deputy chief medical officer said to do.

Have i missed something?

He did not leave his kids with anyone though!

VinLieger

paw patrol wrote: »

Can somebody tell me what he did that was wrong?

If he was leaving kids with his parents cos he was sick , isn't that what the deputy chief medical officer said to do.

Have i missed something?

Point me please to exactly where she said "exceptional circumstances" meant you could travel 250+ miles outside of your own quarantine limits and potentially infect vulnerable family members?

Joe_ Public

The deputy cmo stated there would be a case for exceptional circumstances in the event of a "risk to life". Haven't seen that card played as of yet.

nacho libre

AllForIt wrote: »

I don't know for certain he broke the rules. I am not going to make a decision on it based on what I see in the British press to date especially given the way they presented the story. I think he should give his side of the story at least and I don't think it's up to Boris to give Cummings side of the story at the briefings. Most ppl here have already decided he should go without hearing from Cummings. There are a handful of British journalist that have actually made this point and they're not right wingers either.

Were you this unclear whether rule were breached by Ferguson and the Scottish CMO? His side of the story is he was looking after the welfare of his child by travelling. Was it not possible to do this from London? Countless others Londoners had to stay put and managed it. I wonder if, like Dominic, they had decided the rules didn't apply to them, how much higher than ro rate would be now? One thing is clear from Boris endorsing his special advisers actions is that the lockdown guidelines are rendered meaningless and unenforceable. All a person had to do if stopped by the British police is quote Boris's defense of Dominic's actions.

robinph

paw patrol wrote: »

Can somebody tell me what he did that was wrong?

If he was leaving kids with his parents cos he was sick , isn't that what the deputy chief medical officer said to do.

Have i missed something?

Yes, you've missed something. If someone in your household has symptoms then...

"Do not leave home under any circumstances".

A Dub in Glasgo

paw patrol wrote: »

Can somebody tell me what he did that was wrong?

If he was leaving kids with his parents cos he was sick , isn't that what the deputy chief medical officer said to do.

Have i missed something?

He broke the rules on self isolation

robinph

VinLieger wrote: »

Point me please to exactly where she said "exceptional circumstances" meant you could travel 250+ miles outside of your own quarantine limits and potentially infect vulnerable family members?

There is also nothing exceptional about having a child.

VinLieger

robinph wrote: »

There is also nothing exceptional about having a child.

Ageed ive got 2 of em i had symptoms which luckily turned out to be something else but we never for one moment thought of dropping them to either of their grandparents both of which were within our 2k cus those were the fvcking rules and we were understandably worried about infecting them.....

Thats the thing im really baffled by, the complete lack of concern that his parents might have gotten infected? Really speaks to the kind of person he is.

Joe_ Public

He has extended family in London, whatever about his wife. So not clear why he couldn't call on them.

And also, as the guidance makes clear, there are NHS among other support hubs available for families in tough situations. He should at a minimum have consulted them if they were in that situation.

paw patrol

Joe_ Public wrote: »

His parents are in the vulnerable cohort so should not have had any contact with either kid or parents and there's no evidence the child was even looked after anyone other than his parents for the duration of their stay.

are they? I'm not aware if they are or are not.
Do you know their medical history?

because age is NOT a factor in the UK for covid "higher risk"
only "moderate risk"

It's almost like that are a different country not rules my Dr Tony - who'd have thought that.:pac:

VinLieger wrote: »

Point me please to exactly where she said "exceptional circumstances" meant you could travel 250+ miles outside of your own quarantine limits and potentially infect vulnerable family members?

you are making stuff up now...she said what she said - no limits mentioned. she said family , his parents are his family.

his parents (as stated above ) are not vulnerable - unless you know their medical history - do you?

for those of you who think Dr. Tonys dictatorship applies to the UK , please educate yourselves.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus/whos-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus/


if you want to split hairs and argue between High Risk and Moderate Risk...please note the bottom notes...moderate risk people are still able to go to work, go for food and exercise. Seems reasonable to take the grand kids so.

Timberrrrrrrr

Anyone know what time his presser is on? Wanna make sure I have sufficient popcorn

Timberrrrrrrr

paw patrol wrote: »

are they? I'm not aware if they are or are not.
Do you know their medical history?

because age is NOT a factor in the UK for covid "higher risk"
only "moderate risk"

It's almost like that are a different country not rules my Dr Tony - who'd have thought that.:pac:



you are making stuff up now...she said what she said - no limits mentioned. she said family , his parents are his family.

his parents (as stated above ) are not vulnerable - unless you know their medical history - do you?

for those of you who think Dr. Tonys dictatorship applies to the UK , please educate yourselves.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus/whos-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus/


if you want to split hairs and argue between High Risk and Moderate Risk...please note the bottom notes...moderate risk people are still able to go to work, go for food and exercise. Seems reasonable to take the grand kids so.

From your own link

Social distancing: what you need to do

To stop the spread of coronavirus (COVID-19), you should try to avoid close contact with anyone you do not live with.

This is called social distancing.

Also

Can I leave my home if I'm self-isolating?

If you or someone you live with has symptoms of coronavirus:

do not leave your home for any reason – if you need food or medicine, order it online or by phone, or ask someone to deliver it to your homedo not have visitors in your home – including friends and familydo any exercise at home – you can use your garden, if you have one

A Dub in Glasgo

paw patrol wrote: »

are they? I'm not aware if they are or are not.
Do you know their medical history?

because age is NOT a factor in the UK for covid "higher risk"
only "moderate risk"

He did not mention risk, you did that. He mentioned vulnerable cohort