The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

meeeeh

Rjd2 wrote: »

The Netherlands seem to be adopting a similar approach also.

They are adopting similar measures to Ireland, they are also closing restaurants, gyms etc. They also have one of the best health systems in Europe which I presume is better prepared to cope with higher numbers. Everyone is flattening the curve even Britain now. Last week's strategy would cost 250000 lives according to UK government's own predictions and they had to act. The question is are they doing enough and soon enough.

otnomart

This was published on the British Medical Journal on 31 January
Coronavirus shows how UK must act quickly before being shut out of Europe’s health protection systems

"The case in Germany is especially worrying as it was in someone who had not travelled to China but who had been in contact with someone who had. Unprecedented measures, including lockdowns of large cities in China and widespread flight cancellations, are being adopted."

"There are ways for countries outside the EU to engage with its structures and processes, as is the case with Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein.
But this engagement requires that the country in question agrees to participate in the single market or at least commits to close alignment with it.
This would require that it adopts legislation of “equivalent effect” to that in the EU, which would again include rules on data protection.
The UK has made it clear that it will not be a “rule taker,” a position that would seem to close off these opportunities, even though doing so poses a threat to itself and to other countries"

https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m400

LuckyLloyd

Apparently they are changing course because the team advising Cummings and Johnson forgot to carry the one:

https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1239813325724229632?s=20

This is classic British incompetence and arrogance, nothing more, Britain has a long history of exposing citizens to unnecessary harm under Conservative governments, this is merely the latest example.

I feel sorry for those who have spent the last couple of weeks playing devil’s advocate for the approach, waffling on about herd immunity and the economy. What people are willing to swallow from these charlatans frightens me to my core - but I do understand that it isn’t necessarily the fault of the sheep themselves.

More importantly, I am deeply sad for the British people and their frontline health staff who are already embarked upon a terrible path. Already an incompetent administration has unnecessarily killed thousands of people.

youreadthat

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Apparently they are changing course because the team advising Cummings and Johnson forgot to carry the one:

https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1239813325724229632?s=20

This is classic British incompetence and arrogance, nothing more, Britain has a long history of exposing citizens to unnecessary harm under Conservative governments, this is merely the latest example.

I feel sorry for those who have spent the last couple of weeks playing devil’s advocate for the approach, waffling on about herd immunity and the economy. What people are willing to swallow from these charlatans frightens me to my core - but I do understand that it isn’t necessarily the fault of the sheep themselves.

More importantly, I am deeply sad for the British people and their frontline health staff who are already embarked upon a terrible path. Already an incompetent administration has unnecessarily killed thousands of people.

Whatever helps your weird circle jerk continue.

Road-Hog

Peregrinus wrote: »

Oversimplifying a little, what we seem to have learned is that the British government prefers the approach favoured by behavioural scientists over the approach favoured by epidemiologists.

What we haven't learned is why. And since I think this is a political choice*, I think it's a legimate matter of public interest.

* To avoid doubt, if they made the opposite choice, that would also be a political choice. I don't criticise them for making a political choice; that's their job. But citizens are entitled to interrogate, scrutinise, challenge that choice. And I don't think HMG can hide behind "it's what the experts advised!" It's what some experts advised; why did HMG accept their advice rather than that of others? What advice did they seek? What questions did they put to those from whom they sought advice? What are HMG's objectives, that they asked the experts for advice on how to achieve? Etc, etc.

What is ‘HMG’ please don’t say it’s ‘her majesty’s government’....?

coastwatch

The UK government getting praise from the WHO for,
" for finally ramping up the UK's coronavirus response after the Prime Minister announced new draconian measures to fight the outbreak."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8120443/World-Health-Organisation-praises-Boris-Johnsons-dramatic-coronavirus-shift.html

Road-Hog

Road-Hog wrote: »

What is ‘HMG’ please don’t say it’s ‘her majesty’s government’....?

Why?

CelticRambler

youreadthat wrote: »

Whatever helps your weird circle jerk continue.

Curious response, that. Over the last fortnight or so, we've had a few people on here expressing unconditional support for the Johnson administration's and blind faith that the same people who repeatedly lied to the country throughout the Brexit referendum and WA were now sincerely following the advice of experts.

That position was challenged, the proponents failed to offer any reasonable justification for their trust that the government knew what they were doing would be effective, and waffled about "different solutions for different situations" - i.e. invoking the old favourite: British exceptionalism.

And yet, here we are on St. Patrick's day, with British waking up to the fact that the Irish were doing it right and they were wrong.

I'd like to know how theological and RobMc59 feel now, given that Johnson has abruptly admitted (by action, if not by word) that he's been spinning them a yarn for the last two weeks.

Peregrinus

Road-Hog wrote: »

What is ‘HMG’ please don’t say it’s ‘her majesty’s government’....?

What do you want? It's a handy abbreviation, it's well recognised, and there's no possibility of confusion as there might be if I simply wrote "the government".

(For the record, in the Twitteer circles that I move in the corresponding term for the Government of Ireland is "Rialtas"; for NI it's "Exec". Don't tell me they bother you too.

Road-Hog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why?

Because Irish people using uk abbreviations that most people don’t have a clue what they Are referring....😡 it’s like Irish people and media referring to mr. Alex Ferguson as sir Alex😡😡😡

banie01

A nation of Lions, led by Donkeys.

1st said afaik by German Generals watching the approach of British soldiers in the teeth of machine gun fire in late 1914 or so.

Over 100yrs later and the public school, Oxbridgers are still wreaking havoc on their Lions.

The story breaking last night regarding the UK basing their "scientific advice" on the wrong bloody info!
That is criminal negligence.

https://twitter.com/hancocktom/status/1239669605586604032?s=19

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/coronavirus-uk-strategy-deaths

Donald Trump

banie01 wrote: »

1st said afaik by German Generals watching the approach of British soldiers in the teeth of machine gun fire in late 1914 or so.

Over 100yrs later and the public school, Oxbridgers are still wreaking havoc on their Lions.

The story breaking last night regarding the UK basing their "scientific advice" on the wrong bloody info!
That is criminal negligence.

https://twitter.com/hancocktom/status/1239669605586604032?s=19

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/coronavirus-uk-strategy-deaths

Fucking spastics. Did anyone really expect anything better?

Road-Hog

Road-Hog wrote: »

Because Irish people using uk abbreviations that most people don’t have a clue what they Are referring....�� it’s like Irish people and media referring to mr. Alex Ferguson as sir Alex������

Seems like a nothing issue. Not everyone knows these but they're used all the time anyway.. NHS / NASA / ASEAN / OPEC.

VinLieger

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Apparently they are changing course because the team advising Cummings and Johnson forgot to carry the one:

https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1239813325724229632?s=20

This is classic British incompetence and arrogance, nothing more, Britain has a long history of exposing citizens to unnecessary harm under Conservative governments, this is merely the latest example.

I feel sorry for those who have spent the last couple of weeks playing devil’s advocate for the approach, waffling on about herd immunity and the economy. What people are willing to swallow from these charlatans frightens me to my core - but I do understand that it isn’t necessarily the fault of the sheep themselves.

More importantly, I am deeply sad for the British people and their frontline health staff who are already embarked upon a terrible path. Already an incompetent administration has unnecessarily killed thousands of people.

Lol so what everyones been saying since they announced this idiotic plan that under 70s requiring ICU beds will still completely overwhelm the NHS they have finally realised for themselves.

Classic english arrogance.

PopePalpatine

VinLieger wrote: »

Lol so what everyones been saying since they announced this idiotic plan that under 70s requiring ICU beds will still completely overwhelm the NHS they have finally realised for themselves.

Classic english arrogance.

Typical millennials, they don't have the Great British Stiff Upper Lip!

ancapailldorcha

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Typical millennials, they don't have the Great British Stiff Upper Lip!

The stiff upper lip is a myth. This is the nation that dialled for the emergency services when KFC ran out of chicken.

Eric Cartman

“ KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON “ was supposed to be a war effort inspiration , not goverment policy for a pandemic.

LuckyLloyd

youreadthat wrote: »

Whatever helps your weird circle jerk continue.

I take it you can't understand what has happened so?

RobMc59

VinLieger wrote: »

Lol so what everyones been saying since they announced this idiotic plan that under 70s requiring ICU beds will still completely overwhelm the NHS they have finally realised for themselves.

Classic english arrogance.

I live in a town with a population of more than 88000 in northwest England,the streets are pretty much deserted and people are following the advice of the government and so enforced restrictions which can be seen in other European countries haven't been necessary to date.in addition,this is a new virus so to imply one country's strategy is right/wrong is BS and those doing it are actually showing themselves to be ignorant.

beggars_bush

RobMc59 wrote: »

I live in a town with a population of more than 88000 in northwest England,the streets are pretty much deserted and people are following the advice of the government and so enforced restrictions which can be seen in other European countries haven't been necessary to date.in addition,this is a new virus so to imply one country's strategy is right/wrong is BS and those doing it are actually showing themselves to be ignorant.

We shall see

beggars_bush

beggars_bush wrote: »

We shall see

Yiu have to admire some people. Even when faced with the biggest epidemic Europe has seen for 100 years, they are still trying to get one up on da Brits.

The U.K. is doing it needs to do to manage the crisis, the Irish government is doing what it needs to do.

If you are so concerned that the Brits are doing what other countries are doing, why are you not demanding that the Irish government put us all on full lockdown as the French are doing?

RobMc59

Aegir wrote: »

Yiu have to admire some people. Even when faced with the biggest epidemic Europe has seen for 100 years, they are still trying to get one up on da Brits.

The U.K. is doing it needs to do to manage the crisis, the Irish government is doing what it needs to do.

If you are so concerned that the Brits are doing what other countries are doing, why are you not demanding that the Irish government put us all on full lockdown as the French are doing?

100% agree and if you look further there are some very worrying cracks showing in the EU over all this-but hey!-lets stick it to the British!
https://www.ft.com/content/d3bc25ea-652c-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

threeball

RobMc59 wrote: »

I live in a town with a population of more than 88000 in northwest England,the streets are pretty much deserted and people are following the advice of the government and so enforced restrictions which can be seen in other European countries haven't been necessary to date.in addition,this is a new virus so to imply one country's strategy is right/wrong is BS and those doing it are actually showing themselves to be ignorant.

When they can't even model the correct virus you can be pretty sure their policy is wrong.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

F*****g s******s. Did anyone really expect anything better?

Dear all. I apologize for use of insulting and/or offensive words in the post above (for which I was infracted)

I am incredibly annoyed and frustrated at the arrogance of "experts" who wouldn't even check the numbers on the models they were running. Everyone was telling them they were wrong but they wouldn't even check their inputs.

I did not mean to offend anyone else.

Beasty

Donald Trump wrote: »

Dear all. I apologize for use of insulting and/or offensive words in the post above (for which I was infracted)

On the basis of this apology I have lifted the card

VinLieger

RobMc59 wrote: »

I live in a town with a population of more than 88000 in northwest England,the streets are pretty much deserted and people are following the advice of the government and so enforced restrictions which can be seen in other European countries haven't been necessary to date.in addition,this is a new virus so to imply one country's strategy is right/wrong is BS and those doing it are actually showing themselves to be ignorant.

Firstly the UK government only changed their recommendations today so if people were isolating prior to that they were not following the governments advice but they were 100% correct to do so.


Secondly you have no clue whether enforced restrictions were necessary yet, we wont know that for at least 2 weeks till hopefully the curves in these countries start to flatten.


Thirdly the UK government have literally admitted their model and therefore strategy was wrong so stop with your post truth ridiculousness.

firemansam4

Surely it's not fair to say the UK seems to be handling the situation better than Italy, when Italy are weeks behind them in this crisis?

Italy only started to take the lock down measures required after the infection had already spread massively. So to say locking down Italy was the wrong approach is incorrect IMO.
I think if the UK starts to fair better than the rest of Europe over the coming weeks then maybe you can make that point, I very much doubt they will though.

firemansam4

Aegir wrote:

If you are so concerned that the Brits are doing what other countries are doing, why are you not demanding that the Irish government put us all on full lockdown as the French are doing?

Because its going to directly affect us here on this Island, don't forget NI are following the exact same protocols as the rest of the UK, and believe me this virus is not going to just stop at the border, many people living and sending there children to school in the North work this side of the border, Including in our hospitals.

firemansam4

firemansam4 wrote: »

Surely it's not fair to say the UK seems to be handling the situation better than Italy, when Italy are weeks behind them in this crisis?

Italy only started to take the lock down measures required after the infection had already spread massively. So to say locking down Italy was the wrong approach is incorrect IMO.
I think if the UK starts to fair better than the rest of Europe over the coming weeks then maybe you can make that point, I very much doubt they will though.

If you read what the government has been saying, it isn’t about “if” it is when. It is all about timing.

Ireland and the U.K. will both end up on some form of lock down, but doing it now would be counterproductive as a lockdown can only work, or is more effective, for a finite period.

This is why France is only going in to lockdown now and not a week ago. It will happen here and it will happen in the U.K.

firemansam4

Aegir wrote:

If you read what the government has been saying, it isn’t about “if†it is when. It is all about timing.
Ireland and the U.K. will both end up on some form of lock down, but doing it now would be counterproductive as a lockdown can only work, or is more effective, for a finite period.
This is why France is only going in to lockdown now and not a week ago. It will happen here and it will happen in the U.K.

Ireland is already taking far more steps towards a lock down than the UK.
Pubs, schools and much more.

Yes timing is everything, IMO the UK are getting the timing wrong and I think they are starting to realise that now with announcements comming from there today.