The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

Joe_ Public

theological wrote: »

It isn't to a fuller degree though the graph based on daily lab confirmed specimens is based on all tests.

My optimism is based on concrete and observable data points. There's still a long way to go, but this scaremongering (bolded) is just unhelpful.

I don't know where you get the 20% figure from. The BBC seem to suggest that two thirds provided contacts and 85% were reached. For the first week of the scheme I would say it is a good effort. It needs to improve and no doubt it will.

It is better than doing nothing, if considerable amounts of people are contacted and heed the advice those are thousands of potentially infectious people taken off the street.

When you study the two graphs (both based on positive samples from time test was taken) you will see the obvious discrepancy - daily one suggests less than 400 new cases daily, weekly one in excess of 1k up to the latest available data. Those weekly numbers aren't phantom tests or idle estimates - they are based on people being tested and being found positive!

Nearly 80% of tracing was done by public health officials, the people they effectively shut out of the process from the very beginning. "Better than nothing" is a fairly nifty catchphrase to describe this governments efforts to contain the virus, though! Johnson's personal corona epithet has already being written: "Even worse than Trump."

https://twitter.com/paulfranks/status/1271346591262298112?s=20

robinph

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

You are, though. You can easily be 15-20 minutes waiting to pay, with people standing up your arse and nobody wearing a mask. When I got the train into work, I was only on it 10-15 minutes.

I think masks should be compulsory in all indoor spaces, as they are in most of the continent. Why even take the risk? If someone coughs or sneezes near you in a shop, you're at enormous risk compared to if both of you are wearing masks. Why would you not want as much protection as possible? They're uncomfortable and annoying to wear but I'd rather that than get Covid.

Really? Where are you queuing to pay for 20 minutes inside a shop?

Queuing to get in whilst stood outside, yes. But not in the shop unless they are letting too many people in.




Masks should be required though.

Strazdas

double jobbing wrote: »

Why? Like children they are seldom to never susceptible to infection?

Pretty much, yes. From what I observed, most kids and young teenagers kept on mingling outdoors in small groups during the lockdown. Social distancing was always going to be far of an issue for adults.

lainey_d_123

robinph wrote: »

Really? Where are you queuing to pay for 20 minutes inside a shop?

Queuing to get in whilst stood outside, yes. But not in the shop unless they are letting too many people in.




Masks should be required though.

I queued that long in Lidl the other day. There was some distancing and a queue outside, but there was a problem on the till and it took ages to sort out, while we're all standing there breathing in whatever.

Masks get rid of a lot of the risk in this kind of situation. Easiest way is to make them compulsory in any indoor space. Transport, supermarket, airport, plane, everywhere.

robinph

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I queued that long in Lidl the other day. There was some distancing and a queue outside, but there was a problem on the till and it took ages to sort out, while we're all standing there breathing in whatever.

Masks get rid of a lot of the risk in this kind of situation. Easiest way is to make them compulsory in any indoor space. Transport, supermarket, airport, plane, everywhere.

So a freak situation caused by a technical till problem that you happened to get caught up with rather than "easily being 20 minutes queuing to pay".

Timberrrrrrrr

robinph wrote: »

So a freak situation caused by a technical till problem that you happened to get caught up with rather than "easily being 20 minutes queuing to pay".

Amazing how all of these terrible scenarios keep happening to this one person

theological

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Amazing how all of these terrible scenarios keep happening to this one person

Irrespective of the story, I agree with the principle that masks should be mandatory in all indoor spaces if it genuinely helps to limit the spread.

lainey_d_123

robinph wrote: »

So a freak situation caused by a technical till problem that you happened to get caught up with rather than "easily being 20 minutes queuing to pay".

Eh, it's hardly a 'freak situation'. I go to that Lidl all the time and I'd say about 1 in 3 times there's some massive hold-up.

A freak situation is being struck by lightning, not a hold-up in a supermarket queue.

lainey_d_123

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Amazing how all of these terrible scenarios keep happening to this one person

Terrible scenarios like having to wait in a queue at a supermarket or a pharmacy? I live in a very overcrowded area. Nothing particularly weird about it taking more than 15 minutes for me to go from queuing up for the tills to having my stuff in bags and walking out.

I wonder sometimes do some of you people ever leave your mother's basement, if you think my tales of pharmacists without masks and supermarket queues are so far fetched I must have made them up.

Timberrrrrrrr

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Terrible scenarios like having to wait in a queue at a supermarket or a pharmacy? I live in a very overcrowded area. Nothing particularly weird about it taking more than 15 minutes for me to go from queuing up for the tills to having my stuff in bags and walking out.

I wonder sometimes do some of you people ever leave your mother's basement, if you think my tales of pharmacists without masks and supermarket queues are so far fetched I must have made them up.

Ah yes, when you have been found out you get personal

theological

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Terrible scenarios like having to wait in a queue at a supermarket or a pharmacy? I live in a very overcrowded area. Nothing particularly weird about it taking more than 15 minutes for me to go from queuing up for the tills to having my stuff in bags and walking out.

I wonder sometimes do some of you people ever leave your mother's basement, if you think my tales of pharmacists without masks and supermarket queues are so far fetched I must have made them up.

I agree with you at supermarkets - most people don't wear them. However, I think the supermarkets work pretty efficiently. It is true that it is very difficult to keep 2m apart, but the queueing system, and the protective glass at the cashiers and those restricting entry are doing a great job. This is also in respect to a Lidl in outer London. I've never queued for 15 minutes in the store either. There were queues outside at various stages in March, but actually I found that changing my shopping times to being mid-week and popping away from working at home for a bit is actually better for stock of products and queues.

Can't comment on pharmacists, but having driven a lot more since the easing of restrictions, petrol stations are also doing a great job in respect to protective glass for the cashiers, floor markings, providing gloves at the pumps at least at the BP that I stopped at. That was in Essex.

Shops can only do so much to be safe, and I agree with you that more should be done on face coverings, but honestly no I've not seen stories as extreme as yours. Perhaps that is true in Tower Hamlets (on a guess from your description of your area) where people live more closely.

But extrapolating what you see anecdotally and applying it to Britons as a whole is unhelpful.

robinph

If a shop is regularly having queues of 15-20 minutes at the tills then they are really not doing things right as far as controlling the number of people getting into the shop. A queue that long for the tills and the must have only one till operated by a blind hedgehog with its arms tied behind its back and the queue itself going back out the entrance to the shop.

How many people do they have stood in this 20 minute long queue?

There is a time dilation effect when stood in queues and stopped at traffic lights such that 10 seconds feels like 5 minutes, but there is just no way a grocery shop has queues that long at the tills.

Joe_ Public

Was that the first time there's been no scientist, medic or any accompaniment at all at a daily briefing? Raab fairly raced through the slides and questions, blithely declaring at one point there was nothing he couldn't answer. BAME communities will be ecstatic to learn the government has announced a review into all the reviews that have gone before. This suggestion that the scientists couldn't be at all briefings because they're all so busy is worthy of particular derision.

https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1272569855976394752?s=20

robinph

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Was that the first time there's been no scientist, medic or any accompaniment at all at a daily briefing? Raab fairly raced through the slides and questions, blithely declaring at one point there was nothing he couldn't answer. BAME communities will be ecstatic to learn the government has announced a review into all the reviews that have gone before. This suggestion that the scientists couldn't be at all briefings because they're all so busy is worthy of particular derision.

https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1272569855976394752?s=20

There was one day last week where there was no scientist with him.

theological

On face coverings - it is interesting to note that they are not mandatory at all in Ireland yet even on public transport.

I'm a bit surprised at that admittedly.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://twitter.com/RP131/status/1272552577310380033

ancapailldorcha

theological wrote: »

On face coverings - it is interesting to note that they are not mandatory at all in Ireland yet even on public transport.

I'm a bit surprised at that admittedly.

From my very limited experience of commuting to work today, while they're being worn by more people there were far too many on the tube not bothering at all.

Joe_ Public

theological wrote: »

On face coverings - it is interesting to note that they are not mandatory at all in Ireland yet even on public transport.

I'm a bit surprised at that admittedly.

It's not that surprising really. They seem slow to change things here in general. They spent weeks and months stating masks were of limited benefit so maybe it's harder to go the extra mile and start making it mandatory in certain instances. If they want to encourage it, best way would be to have easy accessibility and distribution at those points you want to implement it - like a lot of the model countries do.

lainey_d_123

Joe_ Public wrote: »

It's not that surprising really. They seem slow to change things here in general. They spent weeks and months stating masks were of limited benefit so maybe it's harder to go the extra mile and start making it mandatory in certain instances. If they want to encourage it, best way would be to have easy accessibility and distribution at those points you want to implement it - like a lot of the model countries do.

It's truly incredible. They spent weeks telling us masks were useless and not to bother with them, and suddenly they expect everyone to wear one?

It's not even that easy to find them. I ordered some online, but not everyone can/will. It was quite a faff and quite expensive. I know they said any face covering would do, but having a scarf wrapped round your face on the tube in June isn't really a solution.

As I said earlier in the thread, they weren't available even in a medical setting when I went for blood tests, which is really, really poor. One of the richest countries in the world couldn't source some surgical masks for its residents? Far poorer countries are managing it.

theological

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

From my very limited experience of commuting to work today, while they're being worn by more people there were far too many on the tube not bothering at all.

Except the difference is that after the first few days people will be fined for this. My suspicion is that more than 10% (Ireland's figure) were wearing it.

Joe_ Public

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's truly incredible. They spent weeks telling us masks were useless and not to bother with them, and suddenly they expect everyone to wear one?

It's not even that easy to find them. I ordered some online, but not everyone can/will. It was quite a faff and quite expensive. I know they said any face covering would do, but having a scarf wrapped round your face on the tube in June isn't really a solution.

As I said earlier in the thread, they weren't available even in a medical setting when I went for blood tests, which is really, really poor. One of the richest countries in the world couldn't source some surgical masks for its residents? Far poorer countries are managing it.

I was referring to ireland specifically but similar story. There's a poll here suggesting a 34% pick up on maks wearing but that seems high to me, bit sceptical on that figure. They're not as easy to source as they should be and home making is only fine as far as it goes. In some countries they were sent out free to every household which is the way to start it. Give people as little excuse as possible not to bother. Short of making it compulsory.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

From my very limited experience of commuting to work today, while they're being worn by more people there were far too many on the tube not bothering at all.

I'd say it was about 50-70% of travellers I saw were wearing the masks. I don't know if it's feasible to fine that many people. I don't know how they'd do it either.

BonnieSituation

theological wrote: »

On face coverings - it is interesting to note that they are not mandatory at all in Ireland yet even on public transport.

I'm a bit surprised at that admittedly.

The lack of community transmission in Ireland is part of the reason I would say.

theological

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The lack of community transmission in Ireland is part of the reason I would say.

There's still some. At least according to the RTE dashboard.

In any case, I was simply surprised. I agree with other posters that masks should be mandatory in all indoor public spaces.

Dave0301

Pandemic...what pandemic :pac:

https://twitter.com/myworditslongy/status/1272596275758862336

That was taken yesterday. Good luck with social distancing when pubs open up next month.

I have heard of similar happening in Ireland as well. If there is a 2nd peak, I am not so sure that the public will be as happy and generally compliant to return to a lockdown, or indeed if the economy could take the hit.

Joe_ Public

Could be an interesting day in the commons. A vote will take place on giving school children free meals throughout the summer and the government - for reasons i can't understand other than they are tories - are dead set on opposing it. This surely isnt far off the nhs surcharge issue, they are completely against the public mood on this. And yet mps are being whipped to vote it down - can see some resistance to this.

https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1272800254539239425?s=20

Dave0301

Dave0301 wrote: »

Pandemic...what pandemic :pac:

https://twitter.com/myworditslongy/status/1272596275758862336

That was taken yesterday. Good luck with social distancing when pubs open up next month.

I have heard of similar happening in Ireland as well. If there is a 2nd peak, I am not so sure that the public will be as happy and generally compliant to return to a lockdown, or indeed if the economy could take the hit.

Any attempt at a 2nd lockdown will be really difficult / impossible to achieve and will definitely need massive and proactive police mobilisation. I just don’t see it happening. My hope is that therapies and treatments will be so much better than in the 1st wave that people will pass through hospital much more quickly, with limited ICU admissions.

Enzokk

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Could be an interesting day in the commons. A vote will take place on giving school children free meals throughout the summer and the government - for reasons i can't understand other than they are tories - are dead set on opposing it. This surely isnt far off the nhs surcharge issue, they are completely against the public mood on this. And yet mps are being whipped to vote it down - can see some resistance to this.

https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1272800254539239425?s=20

It is easy to understand. They don't care. It explains their laissez-faire attitude to the crises until it started happening close to them in Westminster. If Covid-19 was a disease that only affected the less well off, they would have been even more hands off.

If you need examples of them not caring or just being incompetent,

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1272776730554650624?s=20

All the information was available on the 31st January, and Johnson decided to take a break.

theological

Dave0301 wrote: »

Pandemic...what pandemic :pac:

https://twitter.com/myworditslongy/status/1272596275758862336

That was taken yesterday. Good luck with social distancing when pubs open up next month.

I have heard of similar happening in Ireland as well. If there is a 2nd peak, I am not so sure that the public will be as happy and generally compliant to return to a lockdown, or indeed if the economy could take the hit.

You can look at it another way. I wouldn't go you stupid stupid people for being in that situation.

I would be putting the onus on the owners of Bicester Village to ensure proper controls are in place to ensure that the distance can be kept. For example this may mean restricting the number of shoppers before they get inside the outlet centre.

Peregrinus

theological wrote: »

You can look at it another way. I wouldn't go you stupid stupid people for being in that situation.

I would be putting the onus on the owners of Bicester Village to ensure proper controls are in place to ensure that the distance can be kept. For example this may mean restricting the number of shoppers before they get inside the outlet centre.

Yes. But do we merely encourage the owners to do this, or do we legally require them to do it, with perhaps the possiblity of a closure order if they won't or can't?