The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

theological

Peregrinus wrote: »

Yes. But do we merely encourage the owners to do this, or do we legally require them to do it, with perhaps the possiblity of a closure order if they won't or can't?

I think there's already actions that the Government can have to ensure that workplaces are COVID secure and they were saying that in the event that places aren't COVID secure that they can enforce this. I'm not sure where this is in the law however.

But I think the kind of posts where we have pictures of people and then people go "you idiots" on Twitter is really unfair.

Joe_ Public

Enzokk wrote: »

It is easy to understand. They don't care. It explains their laissez-faire attitude to the crises until it started happening close to them in Westminster. If Covid-19 was a disease that only affected the less well off, they would have been even more hands off.

If you need examples of them not caring or just being incompetent,

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1272776730554650624?s=20

All the information was available on the 31st January, and Johnson decided to take a break.

I know what they're like alright. But literally taking food from children's mouths isnt merely typical tory callousness, it's political incoherence that is going to lead to another humiliating u-turn. I can remember when the likes of Johnson and others used to mock Theresa May for her frequent u-turns.

theological

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I know what they're like alright. But literally taking food from children's mouths isnt merely typical tory callousness, it's political incoherence that is going to lead to another humiliating u-turn. I can remember when the likes of Johnson and others used to mock Theresa May for her frequent u-turns.

I think this bolded bit is a bit extreme.

Do children normally get free school meals in the summer holidays?

I think they should probably give it given the circumstances, and there's increasing Tory pressure on this. Expect a u-turn but it cannot be argued to be "taking food" if the food was never normally given during the school holidays.

Enzokk

theological wrote: »

I think this bolded bit is a bit extreme.

Do children normally get free school meals in the summer holidays?

I think they should probably give it given the circumstances, and there's increasing Tory pressure on this. Expect a u-turn but it cannot be argued to be "taking food" if the food was never normally given during the school holidays.

Bolded bit. Enough said. The government cannot hide behind the unusual times when it suits them then refer back to how things were done in the past when they want to as well.

Joe_ Public

theological wrote: »

I think this bolded bit is a bit extreme.

Do children normally get free school meals in the summer holidays?

I think they should probably give it given the circumstances, and there's increasing Tory pressure on this. Expect a u-turn but it cannot be argued to be "taking food" if the food was never normally given during the school holidays.

That was Grant Shapps defence line on bbc and sky earlier. They dont normally get free dinners in the summer holidays. But there's not normally a global pandemic during the holidays either! So not technically correct, I'd concede, but that's how it looks and politics is often perception as the old saying goes.

robinph

theological wrote: »

I think this bolded bit is a bit extreme.

Do children normally get free school meals in the summer holidays?

I think they should probably give it given the circumstances, and there's increasing Tory pressure on this. Expect a u-turn but it cannot be argued to be "taking food" if the food was never normally given during the school holidays.

Under normal circumstances people would be able to work though.

The people most likely to be out of work are those families who would have been making use of the school meals, and most likely to not be able to get back to work over the summer if they have to mind the kids because they can't drop them off at the grandparents because they are shielding.

ancapailldorcha

theological wrote: »

But I think the kind of posts where we have pictures of people and then people go "you idiots" on Twitter is really unfair.

I don't see how. It's one thing to cram together on the tube wearing a mask because you have to get to work. It's wholly another to do the same to get into a Primark.

So much for British common sense.

Timberrrrrrrr

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't see how. It's one thing to cram together on the tube wearing a mask because you have to get to work. It's wholly another to do the same to get into a Primark.

So much for British common sense.

Did you see the queues in Dublin to get into shops this week? Don't let your Brit bashing agenda blind you to the fact that the same thing is happening in Ireland too.

theological

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't see how. It's one thing to cram together on the tube wearing a mask because you have to get to work. It's wholly another to do the same to get into a Primark.

So much for British common sense.

Bicester Village is in Oxfordshire and probably most people used their cars to get there. The fact that there are too many people there is an organisational problem of the outlet centre.

I accept your point on non-essential travel, but it is a separate argument.

Enzokk

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Did you see the queues in Dublin to get into shops this week? Don't let your Brit bashing agenda blind you to the fact that the same thing is happening in Ireland too.

*checks title of topic*

Timberrrrrrrr

Enzokk wrote: »

*checks title of topic*

Ah, so calling out hypocrisy is not allowed anymore? People in glass houses and all that jazz

s1ippy

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't see how. It's one thing to cram together on the tube wearing a mask because you have to get to work. It's wholly another to do the same to get into a Primark.

So much for British common sense.

If you're a coronavirus you don't give a sh!t if someone is being a responsible citizen or an enthusiastic consumer.

Enzokk

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ah, so calling out hypocrisy is not allowed anymore? People in glass houses and all that jazz

Depends how it is done really. You lost me when you posted about "Brit bashing agenda" and seemed to me if that is your view you are just trying to score a point yourself.

robinph

The queues at Primark and Ikea last week all seemed perfectly fine, plenty of people spaces out, presumably people then being limited in how many rush in at once to the shop so not really much to worry about there. Can think of better ways to spend a day myself, but not really a major problem.

The Nike shop on Oxford Street and Bicester Village it is totally the fault of the shop/ center management in not controlling their customers. Nike should have known better and have cordoned off sections for queuing, not like Oxford Street doesn't get people queuing for iphones previously so they have the things in place in the area to manage that if they had wanted to.

Bicester Village really should be penalised in someway though. They are a shopping centre that you drive to, but made out to look like its a quaint village. I guess the individual shops figured that it was down to the centre management to handle the crowds as they are in control of the carpark and the "street" area, and the centre management figured they would just let everyone in and because it looks like a quaint village everyone will form orderly queues themselves.

ancapailldorcha

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Did you see the queues in Dublin to get into shops this week? Don't let your Brit bashing agenda blind you to the fact that the same thing is happening in Ireland too.

Maybe read the thread title before wading in with your snide comments.

theological wrote: »

Bicester Village is in Oxfordshire and probably most people used their cars to get there. The fact that there are too many people there is an organisational problem of the outlet centre.

I accept your point on non-essential travel, but it is a separate argument.

It's not overly relevant how they got there. Bicester village is mainly high end stores selling luxury items. I don't see why it's so urgent that people felt the need to pile in, especially in the days of Amazon next day deliveries.

lainey_d_123

theological wrote: »

You can look at it another way. I wouldn't go you stupid stupid people for being in that situation.

I would be putting the onus on the owners of Bicester Village to ensure proper controls are in place to ensure that the distance can be kept. For example this may mean restricting the number of shoppers before they get inside the outlet centre.

Would you not expect grown adults to have some common sense and personal responsibility?

If I'd arrived there and seen that level of overcrowding, I'd have got straight back in the car and gone home. No matter how long it had taken me to get there and how much I wanted a new bag. It's simply not worth it.

Lots of places around where I live have gotten way too crowded over the past few weeks. It's my choice whether or not to add to the problem. I get up at ridiculous o'clock in the morning when I need to go to the pharmacy or the shop to ensure it's as quiet as possible. I do my exercise as early as I can. I get whatever I can delivered rather than go out for it.

If people are so lazy that they choose to go out at 11am for a coffee and a pastry and stand in a poorly distanced queue for it, taking up pavement space because they couldn't be arsed to get out of bed or make their own coffee, that's not the government's fault. If people insist on jogging at 6pm after work when the pavements and parks are crammed, that's not the government's fault. That's people who think they should be able to do whatever they want and are not prepared to make any sacrifices or change their precious routines.

I'm no fan of the government but they are not nannies to hold the hands of grown adults who should be able to use their bloody brains.

robinph

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

If I'd arrived there and seen that level of overcrowding, I'd have got straight back in the car and gone home.

This doesn't fit with someone who repeatedly goes to a shop where the queue at the till is allegedly 20 minutes. There are other shops out there.

theological

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Would you not expect grown adults to have some common sense and personal responsibility?


[...]


I'm no fan of the government but they are not nannies to hold the hands of grown adults who should be able to use their bloody brains.

I expect people to have some, but the primary responsibility in respect to Bicester Village is with the owners of Bicester Village not being able to control the flow of customers. They should have prepared for this before opening.

lainey_d_123

robinph wrote: »

This doesn't fit with someone who repeatedly goes to a shop where the queue at the till is allegedly 20 minutes. There are other shops out there.

It's only as long as that when there are issues, and that IS the quiet time. I'm waiting there before the doors open in the morning. People going later in the day can be waiting as long as an hour to enter the store, and queuing even longer. I do try to get as much as I can from small local shops, but they don't stock everything, and can often be worse in terms of too many people being let into a tiny space, and crowding round the entrance looking at the fresh produce.

Nice attempt at trolling, though.

lainey_d_123

theological wrote: »

I expect people to have some, but the primary responsibility in respect to Bicester Village is with the owners of Bicester Village not being able to control the flow of customers. They should have prepared for this before opening.

I mean yes, they should have. They've failed in their responsibilities and should be fined or otherwise punished.

But if someone who was shopping there gets Covid, can they really blame Bicester Village for that? Not consider that maybe they brought it on themselves by packing into tight spaces with dozens of strangers to buy some overpriced made in China tat?

Taking personal responsibility seems to be a thing of the past. Rule no 1 in my old school rules (yes, I know, it was a long time ago) was “Failure to display common sense is a breach of the school rules”. They could do with bringing some of that thinking back.

robinph

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's only as long as that when there are issues, and that IS the quiet time. I'm waiting there before the doors open in the morning. People going later in the day can be waiting as long as an hour to enter the store, and queuing even longer. I do try to get as much as I can from small local shops, but they don't stock everything, and can often be worse in terms of too many people being let into a tiny space, and crowding round the entrance looking at the fresh produce.

Nice attempt at trolling, though.

So now some people are queuing for an hour to get into a shop, possible but I don't believe it for a grocery shop. Where are you living that there are no other grocery shops around with shorter queues, or no other shops within a 20 minute walk? I believe that you are living in London and it's simply impossible that your only shop selling groceries is that busy.

As for people then "queuing even longer" once they are inside the shop. It was nonsense when you were claiming it was 20 minutes and now you are claiming the queue is over an hour just to pay. Where is this queue being formed within the shop, how many tills do they have open is everyone paying with bags of 1p's that are then being counted out and individually washed before being handed over?

serfboard

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

That's people who think they should be able to do whatever they want and are not prepared to make any sacrifices or change their precious routines.

The logical conclusion of decades of individualism started by Margaret Thatcher.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'm no fan of the government but they are not nannies to hold the hands of grown adults who should be able to use their bloody brains.

The "nanny state" agrument of libertarians.

Sure, why have any laws at all? Because grown adults don't use their bloody brains.

serfboard

Dave0301 wrote: »

Pandemic...what pandemic

The photo you quoted was taken in "Bicester Village", an outlet shopping centre owned by the same people who own Kildare Village. Be interesting to see if the same carry-on happens in Kildare Village too.

OT, but IMO amazing piece of trivia: "The centre is the second most visited location in the United Kingdom by Chinese tourists, after Buckingham Palace."

lainey_d_123

robinph wrote: »

So now some people are queuing for an hour to get into a shop, possible but I don't believe it for a grocery shop. Where are you living that there are no other grocery shops around with shorter queues, or no other shops within a 20 minute walk? I believe that you are living in London and it's simply impossible that your only shop selling groceries is that busy.

As for people then "queuing even longer" once they are inside the shop. It was nonsense when you were claiming it was 20 minutes and now you are claiming the queue is over an hour just to pay. Where is this queue being formed within the shop, how many tills do they have open is everyone paying with bags of 1p's that are then being counted out and individually washed before being handed over?

There genuinely isn't another major supermarket within walking distance, no. Most people used to shop in a large independent supermarket which has now closed.

I didnt say the queue was an hour to pay, I said an hour to get in at peak time compared to going in right away if you're there when it opens. Once you're in, because of the distancing, you can end up spending 10-15 minutes on a good day by the time you're allowed into the queuing area, have reached your turn, the cashier has scanned everything (people are doing MASSIVE shops now so they have to go less often, and most of the tills are now closed leaving just one or two) and you've put it away into your bags. If there's a technical problem with the till, or a confused elderly Bengali lady who speaks no English and doesn't understand why she can't pay in coins, or someone's card has been rejected and they're rifling through pockets and bags trying to find another one while getting flustered and upset, it can easily creep up to 20 minutes or even longer.

I'm sorry you don't seem able to understand that your experience isn't everyone's. You must not live in a poor area if you think this isn't typical.

robinph

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

There genuinely isn't another major supermarket within walking distance, no. Most people used to shop in a large independent supermarket which has now closed.

I didnt say the queue was an hour to pay, I said an hour to get in at peak time compared to going in right away if you're there when it opens. Once you're in, because of the distancing, you can end up spending 10-15 minutes on a good day by the time you're allowed into the queuing area, have reached your turn, the cashier has scanned everything (people are doing MASSIVE shops now so they have to go less often, and most of the tills are now closed leaving just one or two) and you've put it away into your bags. If there's a technical problem with the till, or a confused elderly Bengali lady who speaks no English and doesn't understand why she can't pay in coins, or someone's card has been rejected and they're rifling through pockets and bags trying to find another one while getting flustered and upset, it can easily creep up to 20 minutes or even longer.

I'm sorry you don't seem able to understand that your experience isn't everyone's. You must not live in a poor area if you think this isn't typical.

Most definitely not a wealthy area where I am and our location is quite unique in that my front door is within 100m of 7(?) different shops that I could go to to get a pint of milk/ loaf of bread/ butter/ etc and half of those would also sell varying degrees of "fresh" meat and veg as well. The next nearest shop I could get food after this selection is less than half a mile away.

You really must be living in some kind of twilight zone to not have other shops around whilst living in the biggest city in the country.

Try going to smaller shops.

devnull

It has been announced that a steroid treatment has helped in the treatment of the virus according to government reports.

Shortly after a U turn has been announced in the free meals debate. Clearly the timing of the two is linked the former to bury the later.

lainey_d_123

robinph wrote: »

Most definitely not a wealthy area where I am and our location is quite unique in that my front door is within 100m of 7(?) different shops that I could go to to get a pint of milk/ loaf of bread/ butter/ etc and half of those would also sell varying degrees of "fresh" meat and veg as well. The next nearest shop I could get food after this selection is less than half a mile away.

You really must be living in some kind of twilight zone to not have other shops around whilst living in the biggest city in the country.

Try going to smaller shops.

Yes, I've already said I do go to smaller shops whenever I can. I've also explained why I can't get everything I need in them, and why they can be even dodgier than the big supermarkets (people crowding round the entrance and no proper distancing enforced).

You're not doing a lot to dissuade me that you don't understand that not everyone is you. Great for you that you live within 100m of 7 shops. Even the nearest expensive corner shops with limited products are about 8 minutes away for me. Lidl is the most sensible place within walking distance to get a proper grocery shop in and also grab household essentials like binbags and clingfilm. Going to multiple small shops just means even more risk, even more time on crowded pavements, even more surfaces touched and people encountered.

I'm trying to go out the absolute bare minimum. I need to go to the pharmacy. I need to go to the doctor. I need to buy food to eat and household items, and I try to do all of those things as the quietest possible time of day and as safely as possible. Nobody needs to be queuing and jostling for takeaway coffee, trainers or designer bags.

Joe_ Public

devnull wrote: »

It has been announced that a steroid treatment has helped in the treatment of the virus according to government reports.

Shortly after a U turn has been announced in the free meals debate. Clearly the timing of the two is linked the former to bury the later.

I make it there was 3 minutes between the announcements! Good news on treatment for sure. U-turn welcome too though it was kinda fun witnessing Therese Coffey taking on Marcus Rashford on twitter earlier. Why do they let her have a smartphone? And i know they're tories but how out of touch can you be? Do they not remember "thatcher thatcher the milk snatcher"?

Akrasia

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ah, so calling out hypocrisy is not allowed anymore? People in glass houses and all that jazz

The term 'British common sense' was probably a jab at Johnson referring to the 'Good Solid British Common Sense' as if British common sense was either more common, or more sensible than the kinds of common sense that exist outside of britain

The British have adopted a sense of exceptionalism throughout this whole ordeal