The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

Leroy42

theological wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. Norway and Switzerland aren't on there because they are not in the EU. The same is true for the UK.

It is obvious that the UK should handle its own communications about travel plans and policy after Brexit. Hence why it is a complete non-story.

There could be advantages to be on the list as pointed out, and I cannot see an disadvantages. So why not do everything they can to get Britain back on its feet.

Seems like they have put their own views ahead of what could benefit the country, without any explanation, just like their initial response to Covid itself.

A Dub in Glasgo

theological wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. Norway and Switzerland aren't on there because they are not in the EU. The same is true for the UK.

It is obvious that the UK should handle its own communications about travel plans and policy after Brexit. Hence why it is a complete non-story.

Norway and Switzerland are not in a EU Transition Period, the UK are. It is very petty of the UK to turn down such initiatives during this period and points to their real intentions

Peregrinus

theological wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. Norway and Switzerland aren't on there because they are not in the EU. The same is true for the UK.

It is obvious that the UK should handle its own communications about travel plans and policy after Brexit. Hence why it is a complete non-story.

I think you're missing the point. If the UK is an independent and sovereign country, it should be making its own decisions about whether to participate, in its own interests. The fact that Norway and Switzerland don't participate is irrelevant; the UK is not a canton of Switzerland.

What's telling in this story is that, when the question is raised, nobody seeks to justify the UK decision by reference to the UK's travel or tourism interests. The government response makes it clear that the decision has been driven by a desire to remain consistently on-message about Brexit; the possiblity that this might not be the most salient consideration doesn't seem to have crossed their minds. And - no offence - your own response is to point to the positions of Norway and Switzerland, as though the whole point of Brexit was to for the UK to outsource its decision-making to countries like those.

Yes, people can get the information from the UK government's own websites, if they want to dig for it. But, as any marketing man knows, the people you're trying to reach are not mainly those who have already decided to travel to the UK, but those who - whether they know it or not themselves - are open to making that decision. People who are considering where to travel this summer and who find their way to this (useful, informative and well-laid-out) website are very unlikely to end up deciding to travel to the UK.

So, for 10 points, why would the UK not want to be on this website?

(Candidates who answer the question by reference to irrelevant considerations such as EU member state status or decisions made by countries that are not the UK will lose marks.)

theological

Peregrinus wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. If the UK is an independent and sovereign country, it should be making its own decisions about whether to participate, in its own interests. The fact that Norway and Switzerland don't participate is irrelevant; the UK is not a canton of Switzerland.

I think if you read the article you'll see what the government said there. I think it is right. People can find out information about the UK easily on the government website.

Peregrinus

theological wrote: »

I think if you read the article you'll see what the government said there. I think it is right. People can find out information about the UK easily on the government website.

But why do you want to make them do that? Other countries are happy to provide the information on a website that aggregates information from many countries, which obviously conveniences users. UK government policy is apparently to make it more inconvenient for those who wish to consider the UK as an option; they are made to do more work. What possible advantage can accrue to the UK from this?

Leroy42

theological wrote: »

I think if you read the article you'll see what the government said there. I think it is right. People can find out information about the UK easily on the government website.

So make people search for the message rather than try to get it out to as large an audience as possible?

Sure, those looking to come to the UK will probably come to the UK website, but many people will have no current plans (their previous plans being cancelled) and as such would like a listing.

Its almost as if comparison website actually work!

Again, you haven't provided any actual advantage of this, only that others should work it out themselves. There doesn't seem to be any disadvantages.

Are you suggesting that the UK will no longer advertise in foreign countries. How are they going to increase trade if they won't use anything other then their own websites?

ancapailldorcha

theological wrote: »

I think if you read the article you'll see what the government said there. I think it is right. People can find out information about the UK easily on the government website.

It's telling that you can't actually cite a tangible benefit from this completely convoluted approach. It's purely for ideological reasons. I think it's time the government grew up and actually tried to handle this conundrum.

My idiotic housemate tried to go to Portugal last week for a liaison with his girlfriend. When he got to Lisbon, the authorities turned him back on the spot. I checked yesterday and got an article detailing the measures for every EU country with no effort.

Contrast that with the government's abysmal website which is shoddy at the best of times.

Joe_ Public

*Didn't join the eu procurement scheme

*Not signing up for the travel app

*Not joining the eu fast track vaccine scheme

*Won't be participating in the eu wide contact tracing sharing app

There's an obvious, unsurprising trend there. They could be doing all these things up until the end of the year at a bare minimum, with nothing very much to lose, but they choose not to, in order to try and prove some childish political point. We can do it all very well on our own, thank you very much, just like they've been handling the crisis from the start.

(Should point out that they did, i think, join a later round of the procurement scheme and contract tracing plan is possibly moot as the UK's one doesn't look to be working anytime soon anyway)

bob mcbob

Joe_ Public wrote: »

*Didn't join the eu procurement scheme

*Not signing up for the travel app

*Not joining the eu fast track vaccine scheme

*Won't be participating in the eu wide contact tracing sharing app

There's an obvious, unsurprising trend there. They could be doing all these things up until the end of the year at a bare minimum, with nothing very much to lose, but they choose not to, in order to try and prove some childish political point. We can do it all very well on our own, thank you very much, just like they've been handling the crisis from the start.

(Should point out that they did, i think, join a later round of the procurement scheme and contract tracing plan is possibly moot as the UK's one doesn't look to be working anytime soon anyway)

Ah it's ok - Boris has got a new slogan "Global Britain" for the side of the bus.
Britain will be world beating in being global and anyone who disagrees is just talking piffle.

robinph

Joe_ Public wrote: »

... and contract tracing plan is possibly moot as the UK's one doesn't look to be working anytime soon anyway)

Don't think anywhere has got a contact tracing app up and running particularly well yet, they are all failing due to various reasons.

Joe_ Public

robinph wrote: »

Don't think anywhere has got a contact tracing app up and running particularly well yet, they are all failing due to various reasons.

I'm not that up to speed on apps, understanding is the eu idea is to have as many up and running as possible by time travelling is widespread again and for countries to be able to share the data. The uk will not be participating but i dont think they're alone. I guess there might be privacy issues or somesuch involved. But i think i read that italy, which has launched its app, has not yet signed up either.

Sheep_shear

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's an illusion though really, isn't it?
.....
I'm way more scared of it now than I was then.

I guess it depends on your experience. For me, I don't know of anyone who's died from it or have even heard of anyone local who has. I can see the numbers for my area and it's quite low. Of the few people I know who've had it, only one described it as bad and even then they were over it within a couple of days and stayed at home.

Personally I'm not scared of getting it, whereas I was more fearful in March. My fear remains though for my elderly in-law relations.

I think I described previously the heavy police presence in my neighbourhood, well that's died down. Whereas we'd get a few walk throughs of police on the beat and a drive through, we're down to a single copper once a day (my home work area faces out onto the road!). The nearby school was open throughout but it's noticeable how many more kids are present. Pretty much all the takeaways are back open but not a single pub doing takeaway pints or anything. I'm not really bothered about that though.

Enzokk

theological wrote: »

I think if you read the article you'll see what the government said there. I think it is right. People can find out information about the UK easily on the government website.

Not surprising, you agree with the approach of the UK Government.

serfboard

Sheep_shear wrote: »

I guess it depends on your experience. For me, I don't know of anyone who's died from it or have even heard of anyone local who has. I can see the numbers for my area and it's quite low. Of the few people I know who've had it, only one described it as bad and even then they were over it within a couple of days and stayed at home.

Your level of apprehension of Covid is only informed by anecdotal evidence of those you know?

RobMc59

Peregrinus wrote: »

Brexit was supposed to be about "taking back control"; not about copying what Norway or Switzerland do without considering what it might be in the best interests of the UK to do.

Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised. If the UK has a government which thought it was in the UK's best interests to underline Brexit by not participating in co-operative procurement schemes during a pandemic, it's hardly surprising that this decision does not seem to have been made with any consideration of the interests of UK businesses.

I just think the UK would be a happier country if Brexiters were less angry and insecure about their victory.

I think that Australia and New Zealand appear to be warming to the possibility of trade deals with the UK which will empower the brexiteers and possibly even allay some of the fears of those of us who prefer close ties with the EU.

ancapailldorcha

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think that Australia and New Zealand appear to be warming to the possibility of trade deals with the UK which will empower the brexiteers and possibly even allay some of the fears of those of us who prefer close ties with the EU.

I don't see how. Erecting trade barriers with the UK's closest trading power is still a terrible idea. The EU was never stopping trade between the UK and Australia and New Zealand.

J Mysterio

Whatever about New Zealand, Australia have plainly stated that they are in no rush to agree a trade deal with the UK, and have said that they will wait to see what arrangements are in place with the EU first, a much more important market.

theological

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't see how. Erecting trade barriers with the UK's closest trading power is still a terrible idea. The EU was never stopping trade between the UK and Australia and New Zealand.

This is going beyond the thread, but you know that the EU prevents individual member states from signing FTAs to liberalise the conditions for trade. So why pretend otherwise?

Two encouraging bits of news. The KCL ZOE tracker has the lowest active number of COVID cases since it began recording at 153,949. It'll be interesting to see when the daily case count is updated later this week.

A trial that took place in the UK showed that dexamethasone is a life-saving treatment for the most severe cases of coronavirus. It reduced death by a third in ventilated patients, and one-fifth in other patients receiving oxygen only. This is being made available across the NHS.

ancapailldorcha

theological wrote: »

This is going beyond the thread, but you know that the EU prevents individual member states from signing FTAs to liberalise the conditions for trade. So why pretend otherwise?

Didn't check the thread title. I was responding to a post.

As usual, you're making up nonsense nobody said. The EU prevents the negotiation of FTA's but doesn't prevent trade with non-EU states.

I'm leaving it there as this is OT.

Strazdas

J Mysterio wrote: »

Whatever about New Zealand, Australia have plainly stated that they are in no rush to agree a trade deal with the UK, and have said that they will wait to see what arrangements are in place with the EU first, a much more important market.

It's getting totally overlooked that Australia and NZ do relatively little trade with the UK. It would be like the UK shouting from the rooftops about a trade deal with Finland or the Czech Republic.

RobMc59

Strazdas wrote: »

It's getting totally overlooked that Australia and NZ do relatively little trade with the UK. It would be like the UK shouting from the rooftops about a trade deal with Finland or the Czech Republic.

As a child in the late 60s I remember there was fresh fruit and other produce from Australia,New Zealand and South Africa.This probably petered out due to British involvement in the EU.I've definitely noticed an increase of food from further afield places(grapes from India)etc recently.

Joe_ Public

Strazdas wrote: »

It's getting totally overlooked that Australia and NZ do relatively little trade with the UK. It would be like the UK shouting from the rooftops about a trade deal with Finland or the Czech Republic.

Liz Truss says a combined Aus/NZ trade deal might be worth £1bn annually to british exporters. She seems to think people should be incredibly excited by this.

fr336

Boris's prime ministerial car crashed into by his own security detail due to protesters outside Parliament. No injuries, but damage to the car. First catching Corona now this, not the best year for BJ.

PommieBast

J Mysterio wrote: »

Whatever about New Zealand, Australia have plainly stated that they are in no rush to agree a trade deal with the UK, and have said that they will wait to see what arrangements are in place with the EU first, a much more important market.

They don't have to rush, and I think Australia is one of the countries that has explicitly said any deal will not include financial services. The UK will however be desperate for a trade deal wity somewhere..

A Dub in Glasgo

https://twitter.com/RP131/status/1273269971557199872

RobMc59

PommieBast wrote: »

They don't have to rush, and I think Australia is one of the countries that has explicitly said any deal will not include financial services. The UK will however be desperate for a trade deal wity somewhere..

According to this link Australia is very keen to strengthen links with the UK and points out the UK was a very important trading partner prior to joining the EU.
https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-uk-australia-trade-deal-could-be-agreed-fairly-soon-says-high-commissioner-12008452

Well at least Boris is having his plane re-branded. Cost - £900k. Money well spent

Joe_ Public

£900,000 to paint a plane. Money well spent for "promoting Britain" says Oliver Dowden.

I wonder how performance arts people will be feeling after that briefing, facing the threat of thousands and thousands of job losses and best culture minister can do is to say they'll be having "further discussions" to see what more they can do. While at the same time he brags about all the work they put in to get the premier league up and running again to improve morale and please all the foreign owners and players who make up the majority of personnel.

lainey_d_123

3 months of lockdown and we're still at almost 200 deaths a day and four figure cases.

Wow.

RobMc59

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

3 months of lockdown and we're still at almost 200 deaths a day and four figure cases.

Wow.

A bit of a grim fact but my middle son works for a coffin manufacturing company.The last few months they have been working overtime every evening and saturday and sunday.They struggled to keep up with orders,some of which were from major funeral providers.The boss has announced working hours are returning to normal from next week which gives some indication the tide has definitely turned in the UK.The company is a major manufacturer and supplies all over the UK and parts of Ireland.