The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

J Mysterio

Aegir wrote: »

the poster said he wished he was in Ireland, how is explaining what is going on here whataboutery?

If you spent as much time seeing what is going on in Ireland and less time obsessing about the UK then you would realise this.

I don't see that we have a comparable problem here. If you can prove otherwise, please do so.

Incidentally, the thread is about the UK response to Coronavirus, something that will likely have a knock on effect on Ireland.

robinph

J Mysterio wrote: »

These ok also?

Margate Beach. 24/6/20



Brighton Beach. 25/6/20



What about the crowds in the train station per the above? Seems like denial to me.

Probably. Have you got the uncropped versions and from an angle that isn't chosen specifically to show a crowd?

theological

robinph wrote: »

Probably. Have you got the uncropped versions and from an angle that isn't chosen specifically to show a crowd?

We've had photo after photo of these sorts of beach indiscretions. The fact of the matter is the vast majority of British people are following the rules which is why none of the prophecies in respect to a spike in cases have happened.

If people are breaking the rules obviously that is daft and dangerous. If they are spread out in clusters of family groups that is more than likely fine outside.

I'm not sure how much weight I put on these photos as an indicative view of how the public generally are behaving.

J Mysterio

There are none so blind as those who will not see. 

theological

J Mysterio wrote: »

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

I'm basing my views on the past when these points have been raised, and the data following these observations. We were told at several points that this was going to happen and it didn't.

We had beach snaps from Southend, Brighton and God only knows how many other places on hot days. We had photos in respect to the bank holiday.

The fact is that isolated incidents where there are violations (the jury is out on some of the photos which seem to show spaced groups) do not mean that the population at large is flouting the rules on a wide scale.

There are 67 million people in the UK - a couple of photos doesn't give us a full picture. The data does.

J Mysterio

J Mysterio wrote: »

I don't see that we have a comparable problem here. If you can prove otherwise, please do so.

Incidentally, the thread is about the UK response to Coronavirus, something that will likely have a knock on effect on Ireland.

poor Mysterio, very good at giving it, but really really bad at taking it.

Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey and Killiney were an absolute ****ing joke today.

Dave0301

Aegir wrote: »

poor Mysterio, very good at giving it, but really really bad at taking it.

Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey and Killiney were an absolute ****ing joke today.

Okay. Go post in the thread relating to the Irish response to Covid-19.

At this stage you just drop in here to stir things up and then disappear again. At least the other posters offer some debate and elaborate on their posts.

J Mysterio

Aegir wrote: »

poor Mysterio, very good at giving it, but really really bad at taking it.

Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey and Killiney were an absolute ****ing joke today.

Am I bad at taking it? What is it I'm supposed to be taking?

Put up or shut up. Take a photo next time, or link to a comparable story or image. Plenty to be found on UK transgressions.

Timberrrrrrrr

Dave0301 wrote: »

Okay. Go post in the thread relating to the Irish response to Covid-19.

At this stage you just drop in here to stir things up and then disappear again. At least the other posters offer some debate and elaborate on their posts.

As if that would last more than five minutes :pac:

Dave0301

Dave0301 wrote: »

Okay. Go post in the thread relating to the Irish response to Covid-19.

At this stage you just drop in here to stir things up and then disappear again. At least the other posters offer some debate and elaborate on their posts.

You mean I drop in every now and then and point out the hypocritical bull****, then yes, you are correct.

Dave0301

Aegir wrote: »

You mean I drop in every now and then and point out the hypocritical bull****, then yes, you are correct.

I have no doubt that similar things are happening in Ireland. However, I don't care as much about that as it is not impacting as much as the events that are happening in the UK could...which is why I post in the UK response thread.

bob mcbob

It seems that the police are not very happy with Boris's Independence Day stunt.

The head of the Police Federation in England and Wales, John Apter, fears the reopening of pubs and bars in England on 4 July will put his members at risk.
"Easing of lockdown on a Saturday has created almost a countdown to carnival and I am deeply concerned that we're going to see big problems on that day," he told the BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53187031

Dave0301

Dave0301 wrote: »

I have no doubt that similar things are happening in Ireland. However, I don't care as much about that as it is not impacting as much as the events that are happening in the UK could...which is why I post in the UK response thread.

Impacting what? Who?

Strazdas

Aegir wrote: »

poor Mysterio, very good at giving it, but really really bad at taking it.

Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey and Killiney were an absolute ****ing joke today.

Were they? There's no mention on social media of anything untoward happening in those three locations today.

Dave0301

Aegir wrote: »

Impacting what? Who?

My day to day life, which is why I would prefer debate and reasoned posts on how the UK are dealing with things.

Rather than, well Irish people are doing it too!

J Mysterio

Strazdas wrote: »

Were they? There's no mention on social media of anything untoward happening in those three locations today.

Still waiting for some sort of evidence to substantiate these claims. Untill such a time, it will go down in the book as another example of 'don't criticize the UK' whataboutery.

theological

Dave0301 wrote: »

I have no doubt that similar things are happening in Ireland. However, I don't care as much about that as it is not impacting as much as the events that are happening in the UK could...which is why I post in the UK response thread.

J Mysterio wrote: »

Still waiting for some sort of evidence to substantiate these claims. Untill such a time, it will go down in the book as another example of 'don't criticize the UK' whataboutery.

I think Aegir's point is one of consistency. If one is more keen on criticising isolated incidents that are happening in some parts of the UK one should be equally keen on criticising events that are happening in your own country.

The argument that events that happen in mainland Britain are going to have more of an impact on Ireland than events happening in Ireland is also category A nonsense.

I'm actually concerned about what happens in Britain because it actually affects my life living here. I don't think there's going to be a massive outbreak of coronavirus because of people flocking to the beach this time just like there wasn't last time.

I agree people ought to be careful so as not to spread the virus. I agree with robinph that photos can be deceptive however.

Strazdas

Strazdas wrote: »

Were they? There's no mention on social media of anything untoward happening in those three locations today.

if its not on social media, it didn't happen :rolleyes:

the area is heaving with people. It is this time every year, but i have never seen it as busy as this. Driving through Dun Laoghaire and seeing teenagers literally packed in to some of the take aways, it really is like the pandemic never happened.

Dave0301

theological wrote: »

I think Aegir's point is one of consistency. If one is more keen on criticising isolated incidents that are happening in some parts of the UK one should be equally keen on criticising events that are happening in your own country.

The argument that events that happen in mainland Britain are going to have more of an impact on Ireland than events happening in Ireland is also category A nonsense.

I'm actually concerned about what happens in Britain because it actually affects my life living here. I don't think there's going to be a massive outbreak of coronavirus because of people flocking to the beach this time just like there wasn't last time.

I agree people ought to be careful so as not to spread the virus. I agree with robinph that photos can be deceptive however.

That is my point as well. I don't live in Ireland, so I don't care as much about people defending the actions of those packing out Dorset beaches because some Irish people are doing similar, especially not in the UK response thread.

I just seen a video of people in St Stephen's Green partying and breaking social distancing, I condemn that as well.

As for whether events like today and the raves etc will have a noticeable impact on infections, we will have to wait and see. I do think it will have some sort of impact personally, but not to the extent of a few months ago when it was circulating freely and undetected.

Jim_Hodge

Aegir wrote: »

if its not on social media, it didn't happen :rolleyes:

the area is heaving with people. It is this time every year, but i have never seen it as busy as this. Driving through Dun Laoghaire and seeing teenagers literally packed in to some of the take aways, it really is like the pandemic never happened.

Very informative for a thread on the UK response .

theological

Dave0301 wrote: »

As for whether events like today and the raves etc will have a noticeable impact on infections, we will have to wait and see. I do think it will have some sort of impact personally, but not to the extent of a few months ago when it was circulating freely and undetected.

We've had this several times before on this thread. Where people were commenting that all those people on the beach are going to cause a national spike in coronavirus.

The fact is it didn't. Why? These events are isolated and involve a small minority of people.

On this thread people look at a photo on a beach and say oh the whole of the UK aren't able to be sensible in respect to the restrictions. That's obviously false because of the huge progress made in reducing cases and deaths.

J Mysterio

Typical, standard stuff from you here, and as expected.

theological wrote: »

I think Aegir's point is one of consistency. If one is more keen on criticising isolated incidents that are happening in some parts of the UK one should be equally keen on criticising events that are happening in your own country.

Aegir's 'point' is not one of inconsistency. Aegir flies into a rage whenever the UK is criticized and proceeds to immediately engage in whataboutery RE Ireland.

Let me remind you that this thread is about the UK response to Coronavirus, a response which has been widely condemned.

theological wrote:

The argument that events that happen in mainland Britain are going to have more of an impact on Ireland than events happening in Ireland is also category A nonsense.

Please point to where anyone has said that. Obviously what happens in Ireland has a more direct impact on Ireland... of course. But what happens in the UK does also have a big impact on Ireland. That is why there is such great interest and why we have spent so long discussing the UK response. This really doesn't need explaining, we can all state the bleeding obvious.

We have huge links between both countries in terms of families, business etc. We have a CTA and the UK is in possesion of a part of this island, so the UK response is very much of interest to Irish people and I don't see how that can be disputed or belittled in any way.

theological wrote:

I'm actually concerned about what happens in Britain because it actually affects my life living here.

See above.

theological wrote:

I don't think there's going to be a massive outbreak of coronavirus because of people flocking to the beach this time just like there wasn't last time.

We will see. At best it is highly irresponsible. I'm sure many of these people were applauding the NHS, a body which did not receive the right support from this nasty Tory administration.

theological wrote:

I agree people ought to be careful so as not to spread the virus.

Do you? Why are you being contrarian then?

theological wrote:

agree with robinph that photos can be deceptive however.

Photos can be deceptive, but these photos are not. In arguing otherwise, you are showing me that you are either a) intelectually dishonest or, b) a little bit stupid. My money is on a).

And on what do you base that assumption?

A) you’re own lack of actually thinking before posting
your own bigotry?
C) a bit of both?

robinph

J Mysterio wrote: »

Photos can be deceptive, but these photos are not.

I refer back to tweet containing a video from Sky. What is wrong with distancing going on directly infront of the camera at the start of the clip?

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1276175313484091392?s=19

People are distanced in family groups directly infront of the camera, why do you think they are not doing exactly the same on the rest of the beach? Now there may be other things they were doing during the day like crowding onto trains, or queuing too close together in the line for their ice cream but we don't have pictures of those incidents so at best we have to assume they were not "shocking" enough pictures to make headlines out of and didn't happen.

Yes there is a lot of people, yes the local area is out of practice at dealing with those numbers and extracting money from them in the chip shops and pubs etc and I'd not want to be there, but I see nothing particularly worrying about what is happening.

Donald Trump

Aegir wrote: »

if its not on social media, it didn't happen :rolleyes:

the area is heaving with people. It is this time every year, but i have never seen it as busy as this. Driving through Dun Laoghaire and seeing teenagers literally packed in to some of the take aways, it really is like the pandemic never happened.

Just thought I'd go back in time 2 months to the 20th April. Given that you seem to want to look at other countries apart from the UK a lot

Aegir wrote: »

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well we are all still hoping that your prediction that 20k deaths will not be reached by August 4th is correct!!

I made no predictions, other than the UK and France would be broadly similar

On 20th April the figures for France were
20,265 deaths
310 deaths per million


On 20th April the figures for the UK were
19,051 deaths
281 deaths per million




The corresponding figures today are
France:
29,752 (+9487)
456 per million (+145 or +47%)


UK:
43,230 (+24,179)
637 per million (+356 or +126%)


Or to put it another way, if the UK had kept it's numbers down in line with France in terms of deaths per million, they'd have had 12,200 less deaths.

(I heard a fella on the radio today saying the UK has had something like 60k+ excess deaths since corona started)

J Mysterio

robinph wrote: »

I refer back to tweet containing a video from Sky. What is wrong with distancing going on directly infront of the camera at the start of the clip?

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1276175313484091392?s=19

Aah. The video entitled 'A major incident has been declared in Bournemouth as thousands flock to the Dorset coast on the second day of the UK heatwave.'?

This beach?

Bournemouth Beach. 25/6/20

robinph wrote:

People are distanced in family groups directly infront of the camera, why do you think they are not doing exactly the same on the rest of the beach?

These are some very impressive family groups at the start of the video, then really, really impressive ones further in.

robinph wrote:

Now there may be other things they were doing during the day like crowding onto trains, or queuing too close together in the line for their ice cream but we don't have pictures of those incidents so at best we have to assume they were not "shocking" enough pictures to make headlines out of and didn't happen.

https://twitter.com/Amandadixon9419/status/1276155340241993732?s=20

Did you miss that one?

robinph wrote:

Yes there is a lot of people, yes the local area is out of practice at dealing with those numbers and extracting money from them in the chip shops and pubs etc and I'd not want to be there

Why not? A nice day out at a busy beach during a pandemic? What's not to like?

robinph wrote:

but I see nothing particularly worrying about what is happening.

Evidently.

maebee

Those pics are absolutely shocking. Never mind the camera angles etc. The amount of people feeling the need to go to the beach in the midst of a a viral pandemic is unbelievable. Have they no concern for their own health? Do they not understand the term "viral Pandemic"? I can understand them not caring about others (terrible) but them not understanding that they are putting themselves at great risk of catching a horrible disease is incredible.

I live an hour's drive from some of the most fantastic beaches in Ireland and wouldn't be breaking the law in driving to one of them tomorrow but I won't be doing it. Kilkee and Ballybunion will still be there next year.

robinph

There is a few more aerial shots here, and they cut away pretty sharpish once they actually start to focus in on how densely packed people are, but the glimpses they do allow us just show lots of people on a beach and plenty of empty sand between everyone:

BBC News - Coronavirus: Prof Chris Whitty warns public over gatherings in hot weather
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53185386

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Just thought I'd go back in time 2 months to the 20th April. Given that you seem to want to look at other countries apart from the UK a lot





On 20th April the figures for France were
20,265 deaths
310 deaths per million


On 20th April the figures for the UK were
19,051 deaths
281 deaths per million




The corresponding figures today are
France:
29,752 (+9487)
456 per million (+145 or +47%)


UK:
43,230 (+24,179)
637 per million (+356 or +126%)


Or to put it another way, if the UK had kept it's numbers down in line with France in terms of deaths per million, they'd have had 12,200 less deaths.

(I heard a fella on the radio today saying the UK has had something like 60k+ excess deaths since corona started)

Yes, I remember the conversation. That was back when it was predicted there would only be 800 deaths in Ireland and this was proof of how great Ireland is. ( it would appear discussing Ireland on this thread was ok back them).

You must be delighted, all those dead Brits.

ronano

Give a bit of decency to other posters, even if we disagree etc, I don't think anyone is happy about deaths. The figures come out and you get used to them but behind each one is a family grieving, that is the tragedy of failure to prepare and take appropriate actions during the pandemic from any government.