The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

A Dub in Glasgo

https://twitter.com/RogueCoder250/status/1284086825036939267

RobMc59

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Stopped reading when the article stated 'in a paper yet to be peer-reviewed'

Hmmm...dismissive attitude to this link yet continuously posting Twitter links...ok...

A Dub in Glasgo

RobMc59 wrote: »

Hmmm...dismissive attitude to this link yet continuously posting Twitter links...ok...

Dismissive about an article hailing a science paper that has yet to be peer reviewed - absolutely

Posting twitter links to a question put to the UK Prime Minister and his answer - absolutely

A Dub in Glasgo

https://twitter.com/RP131/status/1284146189429022721

UK govt starting to look at non-hospital deaths - looks like they do no even understand the criteria for counting a death outside of hospital, surely they are not that incompetent?

robinph

Seems that they have just realised that PHE are counting anyone who has tested positive at any point and then dies of anything at all as a Covid19 death. So someone tested and recovered from back in March but gets run over by a bus today would get added to the covid19 fatalities stats?!?

devnull

robinph wrote: »

Seems that they have just realised that PHE are counting anyone who has tested positive at any point and then dies of anything at all as a Covid19 death. So someone tested and recovered from back in March but gets run over by a bus today would get added to the covid19 fatalities stats?!?

So there's a very easy way around that to ensure you get more accurate figures.

People should only be recorded as a coronavirus related death if COVID-19 is mentioned on their death certificate, that way people where COVID-19 wasn't a factor such as those you describe wouldn't be included.

It's been widely reported by the ONS in the past that the number of people who have had COVID-19 mentioned on their death certificates is higher than the official Department of Health and Social Care totals though.

That's why they probably went for the method they did rather than the death certificate method, since whilst it will lead to people be counted than shouldn't, the overall figures will still be lower than simply going by death certs.

theological

Week on week deaths are still declining. That's good news. Admittedly much slower than any of us would like, but it is good that we're getting to this stage.

Hospital admissions are also steadily declining.

I'm still confused as to why SAGE are concluding the R is 0.7 - 0.9, when KCL are of the mind that it is 1.2. It will be interesting to see if those numbers diverge further as the weeks go on.

CelticRambler

theological wrote: »

Week on week deaths are still declining. That's good news.

Maybe, maybe not. If the UK's experience is following that in the US, the average age of infected patients will be dropping like crazy, so you'll get fewer deaths but a real risk of longer-term health problems (respiratory, neurological and cardio-vascular). The US can ignore those because it's up to the individual to fund their own healthcare, but the UK/NHS could be facing a long future of chronic Covid-19 sequelae in younger people.

And by "younger" I mean in their thirties - that's the average age of hospitalised cases in some parts of the States. I don't think the UK/PHE bothers collecting that kind of data (but perhaps your KCL app does?)

S.M.B.

The KCL app had to change their algorithm recently to not include those showing Covid symptoms for more than two weeks as the assumption is that these are now just long term health issues as opposed to symptoms of being infectious. There must be a large number of people falling into this category as the estimated cases took a big drop after the change.

robinph

S.M.B. wrote: »

The KCL app had to change their algorithm recently to not include those showing Covid symptoms for more than two weeks as the assumption is that these are now just long term health issues as opposed to symptoms of being infectious. There must be a large number of people falling into this category as the estimated cases took a big drop after the change.

Lot more people hanging out in their back gardens rather than air conditioned offices and not realising that they actually had hay-fever. There was some ads I saw doing the rounds online a while ago, possibly Gov ones rather than hay-fever medication ones but can't remember, but telling people that sneezing at a flower wasn't coronavirus basically.

maebee

England's top medic Professor Chris Whitty is at odds with Boris:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8534763/Social-distancing-needed-long-time-Chris-Whitty-says.html

Shades of Trump and Dr. Fauci.

Trump and Johnson are taking advice from their scientists LOL

theological

maebee wrote: »

England's top medic Professor Chris Whitty is at odds with Boris:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8534763/Social-distancing-needed-long-time-Chris-Whitty-says.html

Shades of Trump and Dr. Fauci.

Trump and Johnson are taking advice from their scientists LOL

The situation in the US is totally different. The US is on a steep upward trajectory in respect to the virus.

The way I interpret yesterday is as follows. Johnson is being ridiculously idealistic with his idea that we're going to be back to normal before Christmas. I don't believe this. I'm not sure he does either, considering the emphasis on his plans being conditional.

Chris Whitty is probably more on the money in that we're going to be asked to distance into the long term. I think most people are willing to do this provided that it keeps them safe.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://twitter.com/RP131/status/1284503479428485121

Seth Brundle

Do as I say, not as I do...

UK transport secretary becomes first senior politician to book foreign holiday
Grant Shapps previously warned that those booking a holiday in August would be taking a chance.

theological

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Do as I say, not as I do...

UK transport secretary becomes first senior politician to book foreign holiday
Grant Shapps previously warned that those booking a holiday in August would be taking a chance.

Where's the contradiction?

He said that those booking a holiday in August would be taking a chance. He is taking a chance. Now, what did he mean by chance. Chance that one would catch the virus, a chance that the holiday would have to be cancelled at short notice, a chance that one would lose money?

The advice from the Foreign Office has been changed in the meanwhile as the article also states.

He wasn't saying that people shouldn't as an absolute law. He was informing the public that it was a risk.

S.M.B.

Yeah, that's just looking for any reason to have a pop at those in charge.

I went to the pub yesterday, and IKEA today. Both experiences went as well as could be expected.

Seth Brundle

So whilst the UK government are encouraging staycations, it's ok for ministers to head abroad?
It's hypocrisy at its finest!

S.M.B.

Yeah, it is OK for anyone to head abroad. Not sure whether I 100% agree with the current travel guidelines but that's irrelevant.

RobMc59

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So whilst the UK government are encouraging staycations, it's ok for ministers to head abroad?
It's hypocrisy at its finest!

I agree,we normally visit Ireland two or three times a year but apart from visiting wife`s sick aunty in February(before all this kicked off) we have`nt or would`nt attempt going over-despite stena line constantly sending tempting deals!

theological

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So whilst the UK government are encouraging staycations, it's ok for ministers to head abroad?
It's hypocrisy at its finest!

You do know that the travel policy changed in England right?

I think it is too liberal and perhaps people should stay in the UK, but we can no longer say that the government are prohibiting non-essential travel when they aren't.

Encouraging staycations is probably more to stimulate the domestic economy. I'd actually quite like to go somewhere in the UK depending on how the situation with the virus pans out informed by the prevalence map from KCL.

Seth Brundle

Do you not agree that it is hypocritical for the UK government to want people to holiday at home and boost the economy whilst ministers holiday abroad?

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

I agree,we normally visit Ireland two or three times a year but apart from visiting wife`s sick aunty in February(before all this kicked off) we have`nt or would`nt attempt going over-despite stena line constantly sending tempting deals!

Please don't. You've much reading to do for your next trip.

---

Just had a call with a friend who's living in London and was very abrupt about how much I want him to come home, but I don't want him near this place til England sorts its shít out. So stuck in East London he will stay.

BonnieSituation

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Do you not agree that it is hypocritical for the UK government to want people to holiday at home and boost the economy whilst ministers holiday abroad?

Well, no he doesn't. He just outlined that above.

This government can do no wrong for Theo.

S.M.B.

You'd swear we're riddled with the virus here in London. If I was on the phone to a friend and they made it clear that they thought I should stay in London I'd be pretty annoyed tbh.

theological

S.M.B. wrote: »

You'd swear we're riddled with the virus here in London. If I was on the phone to a friend and they made it clear that they thought I should stay in London I'd be pretty annoyed tbh.

Totally agree. Part of the reason I don't want to go to Ireland this summer is because of the quarantine period, but I'd say most of the reason I don't want to go is because you'd be dealing with people like BonnieSituation or some of the people on the other thread.

Can you fill us in a bit about your experience at the pub? What kind of measures did they have to keep people safe?

S.M.B.

The plan was to avoid pubs until we had a clearer picture of who was doing a good job and who wasn't, but my Wife, 5 month old baby and I walked past one of the small pubs off the High Street here that has a beer garden out the back and seating at the front on Monday and staff were explaining to a punter what the process was. It all sounded pretty thorough to us so we decided we'd drop by on Friday at around 4.30 to see if it would be quiet.

Gave my details at the front door, my wife and baby didn't even walk inside, I went through a well marked one way system to order at the bar but there was barely more than one person inside at any time. Had two pints out the front, place got a bit busier and the phone was consistently ringing asking for tables to be reserved which they don't do.

I was very pleased with the experience and thought the risk of catching something there was incredibly low. Will go again next week and try a few very similar places nearby for comparison.

I wouldn't be organising any big all day social event at a pub any time soon but sitting outside having a fresh draft pint was lovely and a very different situation.

Enzokk

Seems like testing and tracing isn't going well, or at least as well as people hoped it would.

https://twitter.com/ShaunLintern/status/1284594091171483652?s=20

So only about 50% of close contacts being contacted. It would have been nice to have a app to help with all of this, but then more time was wasted as the UK wanted to go a different route than everyone else, again, and we are where we are I suppose.

Another U-turn from Matt Hancock here as well,

https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1284600757023580162?s=20

Matt Hancock in new U-turn on coronavirus testing data

The health secretary, Matt Hancock, has bowed to pressure from councils, which demanded full access to the names and data of people in their areas who tested positive for Covid-19, and those with whom they have been in contact, in another major government U-turn.

Local authorities and public health officials have been complaining for weeks that they are being hampered in efforts to combat and prevent local outbreaks by lack of access to “named patient data” which would allow them to get straight to the sources of local outbreaks.

Now the Observer has been told that Hancock, who has insisted repeatedly that local authorities have all the information they need from the track and trace system, is set to give way and allow access to the named data as well other information already provided, such as postcodes, so long as strict data protection rules and conditions are followed.

The arrogance of those in charge, trying to tell people that they have the information to make it work and they would send someone to teach them to use what they have. Now they will provide the information that has been requested, because I guess they have seen for themselves that the data being provided isn't adequate after all.

But stay at home and holiday in the UK to help the local hotels. It is your duty to do this as we are all suffering and the local tourism sector could use some of the money you would have used to travel to Europe this summer.

Joe_ Public

It's utterly mind boggling what has gone on there. The figures for contact tracing have got worse every week since the start. Over five months into the crisis and only now are local authorities beginning to get access to the fuller data they need, that is actually a national scandal or should be. Even up to this week, councils were employing people just to ring around care homes daily to find news of positive tests - that is sheer bonkers. The sidelining of public health teams is the single biggest issue of this government performance, while incompetent private investors have creamed off millions.

https://twitter.com/Lisa_McNally1/status/1283489569640513536?s=20

Joe_ Public

Update on those pesky Russians trying to steal our vaccine story.

https://twitter.com/wie_lei/status/1284816611204096000?s=20

RobMc59

theological wrote: »

Totally agree. Part of the reason I don't want to go to Ireland this summer is because of the quarantine period, but I'd say most of the reason I don't want to go is because you'd be dealing with people like BonnieSituation or some of the people on the other thread.

Can you fill us in a bit about your experience at the pub? What kind of measures did they have to keep people safe?

All pubs I've seen around Liverpool and here in Birkenhead appear well organised and social distancing is being observed.A family member has a pub in Nuneaton which isn't far from Leicester.He's said they have a system of booking tables which is working well,again, social distancing is being observed.
I mention this as both areas are under the spotlight.
Perhaps anecdotal but I know three people who have definitely had the virus, two of them were unaware they had it.I know many people who suspect they may have had it but put it down to 'being under the weather',which is scary.
It's interesting to note suggestions that the UK may be getting to herd immunity seem to be gathering impetus in the media despite a number of posters trying to shut that suggestion down.