Australian Response

Bit cynical

The problem in NZ (and AUS to a certain extent) particularly will be, when they eventually have a decent proportion vaccinated, politically and psychologically shifting from a zero-covid strategy to one of living with a certain level of transmission of the virus and treating illnesses as they arise. They will be stuck in a particular way of thinking and, even when vaccinations drastically reduce the severity of illness, will find it hard to take this into account.

To a certain extent we have the same problem here shifting to a living with the virus approach. We haven't yet realised that the vaccinations we have already done mean that we can remove all restrictions and open up fully without the health systems being overwhelmed. The only thing in our favour is that we are next to the UK and this will help us here realise that we're getting things wrong.

Gael23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769078#Comment_117769078

There’s also a mentality that with little or no cases people think they don’t need to be vaccinated

Noo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769341#Comment_117769341

No really, there has been a massive surge in the past week. They have opened the pfizer vaccine to everyone and the response has been immense. Of course that wont get reported in international media.

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769078#Comment_117769078

Ironically vaccinations themselves have been suspended temporarily as part of the lockdown in that country.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Vaccinations have been slow to roll out in NZ but they're ramping up now the same way Ireland's did earlier in the summer. 2 main reasons being a slow supply of them coming into the country for whatever reason, as well as a high level of skepticism towards the vaccine, particularly in the Maori and Pasifika populations here.

But at the end of the day lads, 26 deaths in a population of 5 million and well over a year of normality speaks for itself. The fact that Delta might be about to change all of that now doesn't mean that the country was wrong to shut itself off, to say otherwise is daft imo.

Gael23

633 new cases in Sydney

Cookie_Monster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769730#Comment_117769730

until tomorrow morning, so only a days suspension. And a record 55k shots given yesterday too

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769560#Comment_117769560

We've had a massive surge for months now so that type of thing is hardly headline news. The issue is the low base of vaccinations and that they are unlikely to see any significant levels to have an effect until at least the end of the year but more likely to be next year.

gral6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117769813#Comment_117769813

They just kicked the can down the road. No some natural immunity has been let to be developed. They are at the start of the long journey.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770082#Comment_117770082

Yep, a journey that would have been a lot longer if they had just lay down and let it sweep the country a year ago. There are probably 5,000 people alive here that would otherwise be dead now. What do you think the policy should have been?

is_that_so

BBC piece on Qantas looking to make all its workers get a shot. Proposal is not a given according to this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58239790

gral6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770154#Comment_117770154

Once more, they just kicked the can down the road. They haven't achieved anything yet and now they are at the start of their long journey.

bennyineire

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-three-cases-emerge-since-1pm-aut-student-among-cases-new-auckland-locations-of-interest-including-supermarkets/SL4NACJY4WGJ6XUHINUWLQEAVQ/

Not good news from Auckland, more case linked and confirmed Delta, some of the infected where in the Sky casino, a college lecturer and at church.

The casino could be the most worrisome, time will tell I guess

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770163#Comment_117770163

Yeah the casino is not ideal, especially considering there would have been a lot of people from around the country in Auckland that night for the All Blacks v Australia match.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770157#Comment_117770157

Thanks for repeating that for me, really cleared things up.

gral6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770171#Comment_117770171

You should understand that at this point they have to realize and accept that this virus is there to stay -they have vaccines(which they do not want to take) and now they have to build up immunity - unfortunately some people will die as vaccines won’t protect some vulnerable but that is no different to flu vaccine. Let’s move forward

Noo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770564#Comment_117770564

So whats the solution? Open up the borders now so that it can run rampant, killing thousands, cripple the economy, just so they can "build up immunity"? Or keep doing what they are doing, which is keep deaths and hospitalizations extremely low, booming economy and letting the majority of the country live normal lives the majority of the time while they roll out the vaccination program. Which at this rate they should have 80% population by end of the year. And then look into opening up, which is the plan they are constantly promoting.

So which is it?

gral6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770779#Comment_117770779

Off course not. Just keep kicking the can down the road and be shut off from the world indefinitely.

Noo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770922#Comment_117770922

What can? That phrase implies they are putting something off until later, do you mean putting off reopening the borders? Yet, at the same time you say they'll be shut up indefinitely. Delaying something and never doing anything are very different. So which is it?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771042#Comment_117771042

Only Singapore has switched from this type of approach and there may be scope for Australia to move to live with COVID before they hit that 80% target. It just depends how long long it takes to get there. Anything beyond six months may prove challenging.

bennyineire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770922#Comment_117770922

NZ have been very successful to date and even if they get a full blown outbreak at this stage they have started their vaccination program, even in a worst case scenario they will still come out of this better than any other country with a sizable population. So don't really see your point here

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771108#Comment_117771108

Isolated sparsely populated Pacific rock plays a blinder on COVID - headline. They've an approach that suits them and there really are no cheap bragging rights to be won in a pandemic. They've under 20% of the population fully vaccinated.

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770779#Comment_117770779

The problem is that the zero-covid strategy creates an internal logic where all transmission must be stopped. In the long run however some transmission will need to be tolerated with vaccines keeping hospitalisations and deaths down. A certain level of transmission may even be desirable - provided elderly and vulnerable are sufficiently vaccinated and protected - as the immunity thus generated will be more attuned to current variants. How will the Australians and New Zealanders, however, switch to this way of thinking? Even in Ireland we are having a hard time adjusting to it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771168#Comment_117771168

But isn't the plan that once 80% have been vaccinated to move away from case numbers and to focus instead on hospitalisations? The confusion lies in Mark McGowan saying a few days ago that WA would pursue zero Covid even after 80% had been vaccinated. Gladys Berejiklian said something similar the other day. Not zero Covid, but a continued focus on case numbers. Another poster linked to an article from the Guardian about what she said.

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771203#Comment_117771203

I think the problem will be actually following that strategy when they eventually get that percentage vaccinated for the reasons outlined. When the time comes there will be some variant that they did not take account of or some aspect of the vaccination that is falling short of expectations. In reality it will be, in my opinion, because once a zero-transmission strategy has been pursued for a certain length of time it is hard to shift.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771203#Comment_117771203

Considering that WA are almost as isolated from the rest of Australia as NZ, then they could conceivably continue alone with a Zero Covid strategy, as could NT.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

There is clearly a cohort of posters here who have been pissed off listening to the fawning over Australia and (particularly) New Zealand/Jacinda for being so successful over the past year and a bit. Now there's a bit of glee seeing the two countries developing cases again, which I just cannot understand, but each to their own.

I agree that a zero covid approach can't work forever and anyone that thinks it can is misguided, but to suggest that it was the wrong approach to begin with, in light of how successful it has been, is laughable.

Maxface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774186#Comment_117774186

It was definitely the right approach at the time. Nobody knew much about the virus back then and they had a tool available, that being isolated geographically, that most others did not have. Zero COVID for the likes of Ireland was never going to work but was achievable for them Islands. The challenge now is that when they do open up and the virus is freely circulating is how they manage their response away from doing zero COVID with albeit a different tool available. So they will turn into the likes of Ireland or the UK for example and there will be deaths and hospitalisations. It will be a much truer reflection of living with COVID with a vaccinated population so will give a better idea of life ahead.

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771131#Comment_117771131

NZ has more to fear from the next level 7 earthquake or volcanic eruption than any great outbreak of Covid 19 "cases".

josip

I’m sure many remember being compared to other kids when you were growing up. “Why can’t you be as good/fast/clever/whatever as Johnny/Mary?”. If it was usually the same kid you were being compared against each time, they often became a target of resentment through no fault of their own. There could be a bit of schadenfreude later on in life if the golden kid went off the rails or maybe didn’t have it as easy as when they were growing up.

I think it’s a similar situation in Ireland regarding Australia. There has been a constant highlighting of how well Australia and NZ have done during the first 12 months by Zero Coviders here. They refuse to recognize the significant differences between Ireland’s position and Aus/NZ position. “Ireland’s an island, Aus/NZ are islands, we should be able to do the same”. Just look at how many people posted total gibberish on the “Close the f***g airports” thread.

Some of the more critical posts on here may be misdirected, and should perhaps belong in the Zero Covid thread instead. But I can understand why posters who have argued against the Irish Zero Coviders for the past 12 months might now be less than sympathetic to Australia’s plight.

Slideways

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774186#Comment_117774186

This.

there is a certain cohort of posters in the thread who have taken much satisfaction in Aus/Nz having come undone from the zero covid approach.

The fact is, it worked. Very very well and for the most part we have been able to live very ordinary lives here. The economy has trucked along and very few people died.

The vaccine roll out has been terrible, Scomo and his cronies fùcked it real good and the spineless turd can’t even summon the courage to admit as such.

Given what we know now, and what we will try to achieve, I doubt there is any bar a handful of looneys who would have allowed a Europe style free movement to occur. If you think otherwise and are reading this thread from Ireland I suggest you find a nice corner and go have a wee chat with yourself