COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

fits

Is there any talk of vaccines being available to children? I have a child in vulnerable group. He’s healthy but when he gets a virus it affects him much more than the rest of us. Eg last week his twin brother had sniffles while we were close to calling an ambulance ( before we got negative test result) for him. I’ll be happier when he has been vaccinated.

paw patrol

chrisbonnie wrote: »

I find this attitude to vaccines perplexing, particularly because the vast majority of them are living a healthy lifestyle because of the vaccines their parents made them get as babies.

But somehow this logic seems lost in them.....

vaccines aren't identical to each other.
each should be treated as a separate entity in making your decision.


I am neutral on vaccines, i have taken some before but i won't be taking covid19 anytime soon as I feel it's been rushed and isn't safe. A few hundred punters in a rushed test doesn't mean it's safe for billions of hugely diverse people around the globe.

they can tell me it's perfect but my spidey senses tells me to be far far back down the line...decades back.



Anyway judging by the polls , there will be no shortage of takers and some glorious high number of the faithful will be happy to do it to get access to the finer things in life.

hmmm

fits wrote: »

Is there any talk of vaccines being available to children? I have a child in vulnerable group. He’s healthy but when he gets a virus it affects him much more than the rest of us. Eg last week his twin brother had sniffles while we were close to calling an ambulance ( before we got negative test result) for him. I’ll be happier when he has been vaccinated.

Fauci in the US gave an interview yesterday where he discussed this (about 9 minutes in):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygbo3_VQkmM

"It's going to be months" (for children & pregnant women) as safety trials specific to those groups will be required.

Tough situation to be in I sympathise. Hopefully as more and more people get vaccinated the risk of coming into contact with someone carrying the virus will decrease significantly.

fits

Yes I think we are just going to have to be careful next year. Even more so than in 2020 I think as people will let their guard down.

is_that_so

fits wrote: »

Yes I think we are just going to have to be careful next year. Even more so than in 2020 I think.

For some of the year yes, but you'd expect people to continue to be wary anyway as something like this just doesn't get forgotten about. I imagine there will still be headlines about COVID outbreaks a few years down the road but it'll be a minor medical concern.

ShineOn7

Gael23 wrote: »

Is the report from the taskforce on December 11 going to be made public?

I'd say, given their past form, we can expect leaks from December 9th

stephenjmcd

Moderna have submitted to FDA for EUA

funnydoggy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Moderna have submitted to FDA for EUA

Didn't they do a rolling review for it, or was that the EMA? Can't remember

stephenjmcd

funnydoggy wrote: »

Didn't they do a rolling review for it, or was that the EMA? Can't remember

There would be rolling reviews but now everything is submitted following phase 3 trials and its up to the regulators now.

Phase 3 data has shown effiency of 94%

funnydoggy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

There would be rolling reviews but now everything is submitted following phase 3 trials and its up to the regulators now.

Phase 3 data has shown effiency of 94%

hmmm

This is new data - nearly double the number of cases since the first set of data they released. No severe cases in the vaccinated group and 30 in the placebo group. My shoulder is ready for the good stuff.

"The primary endpoint of the Phase 3 COVE study is based on the analysis of COVID-19 cases confirmed and adjudicated starting two weeks following the second dose of vaccine. Vaccine efficacy has been demonstrated at the first interim analysis with a total of 95 cases based on the pre-specified success criterion on efficacy. Today’s primary analysis was based on 196 cases, of which 185 cases of COVID-19 were observed in the placebo group versus 11 cases observed in the mRNA-1273 group, resulting in a point estimate of vaccine efficacy of 94.1%. A secondary endpoint analyzed severe cases of COVID-19 and included 30 severe cases (as defined in the study protocol) in this analysis. All 30 cases occurred in the placebo group and none in the mRNA-1273 vaccinated group. There was one COVID-19-related death in the study to date, which occurred in the placebo group."

Gael23

fits wrote: »

Yes I think we are just going to have to be careful next year. Even more so than in 2020 I think as people will let their guard down.

This will be a huge difficulty. As people get vaccinated they will let their guard down despite many unvaccinated still out there

ShineOn7

Let's say I'm vaccinated by April (hopefully with the Pfizer one), what then?

How long till it "kicks in"?

How safe am I to then travel and generally socialize/date more versus now?

Loads of variants at play I know. But these are the things we will weigh up

Deeper Blue

paw patrol wrote: »

i won't be taking covid19 anytime soon as I feel it's been rushed and isn't safe.

What are you basing that on? All safety data has been positive

eigrod

Micky 32 wrote: »

It could be possible we could have a supply in this country ready to go once approved. It maybe just kept quiet so people don’t get too excited and then drop their guard because the vaccine is out there.

Not to mention Gemma O D and her mob arriving outside the HSE storage facilities doing what they do.

is_that_so

El Sueño wrote: »

What are you basing that on? All safety data has been positive

Also have some family members who would rather wait and see. They are not anti-vaxx but more time, more safety data.

is_that_so

Micky 32 wrote: »

It could be possible we could have a supply in this country ready to go once approved. It maybe just kept quiet so people don’t get too excited and then drop their guard because the vaccine is out there.

The vaccines deals are with the EU, they'll make the allocations available.

ixoy

is_that_so wrote: »

Also have some family members who would rather wait and see. They are not anti-vaxx but more time, more safety data.

How long will they wait and see.. That's going to be potentially a huge issue if too many want to wait and see. We won't be moving out of restrictions if that happens.

funnydoggy

Was chatting with a neighbour of mine who'll also 'wait and see'.

I get the hesitance, I really do, but there have been a f*ckload of people across the world who have been vaccinated in these trials already and they're grand.

Deeper Blue

The "wait and see" brigade will be just as much a part of the problem as the anti-vaxx crowd in my opinion.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

Also have some family members who would rather wait and see. They are not anti-vaxx but more time, more safety data.

Do you know, or do they know, what kind of data they are waiting for? I mean it could be years before there is data of a more long term nature, that adds anything to that derived from the trials to date (that have involved many thousands of people). Data in, say, 12 months isn’t likely to show anything new, given the volume of people already vaccinated.

is_that_so

ixoy wrote: »

How long will they wait and see.. That's going to be potentially a huge issue if too many want to wait and see. We won't be moving out of restrictions if that happens.

Well most of us will not be added to vaccination lists till the summer anyway. There is a compelling argument that once we address the high risk categories, much of what we see now will begin to decline, hopefully quickly.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you know, or do they know, what kind of data they are waiting for? I mean it could be years before there is data of a more long term nature, that adds anything to that derived from the trials to date (that have involved many thousands of people). Data in, say, 12 months isn’t likely to show anything new, given the volume of people already vaccinated.

These are people who are not looking at any of that kind of data. They need to hear and see that the vaccine is very safe for huge numbers of people first.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

These are people who are not looking at any of that kind of data. They need to hear and see that the vaccine is very safe for huge numbers of people first.

Yes, still don’t understand what they want to see though. No evidence of people dropping dead? The kind of evidence they want I think, will be years in the making

Unless they are genuinely just wanting to see that no one drops dead

Irish Stones

paw patrol wrote: »

I am neutral on vaccines, i have taken some before but i won't be taking covid19 anytime soon as I feel it's been rushed and isn't safe. A few hundred punters in a rushed test doesn't mean it's safe for billions of hugely diverse people around the globe.

A certain doctor Mike Yeadon, former vice-CEO in Pfizer, says that there's no need of a vaccine to fight the pandemic. His opinion is a bit articulate, there are articles on the web and a video too.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, still don’t understand what they want to see though. No evidence of people dropping dead? The kind of evidence they want I think, will be years in the making

Unless they are genuinely just wanting to see that no one drops dead

I have no idea. I tend not to question personal choices like this because they'll come to a conclusion in their own time. It could be in 3 months,12 months or never.

Hmmzis

Novavax now fully enrolled in the UK and South Africa.

The rather important bit in there:

More than 25 percent of enrollees in the trial are over the age of 65, while a large proportion of volunteers had underlying co-morbid medical conditions generally representative of the population.

https://ir.novavax.com/news-releases/news-release-details/novavax-announces-covid-19-vaccine-clinical-development-progress

Their candidate is a protein sub-unit based vaccine with a nano-particle scaffold to present more of the S proteins in a more organized state. The pre-clinical results were among the best so far, if not the best.

Irish Stones

ixoy wrote: »

How long will they wait and see.. That's going to be potentially a huge issue if too many want to wait and see. We won't be moving out of restrictions if that happens.

Potentially one could wait 18-20 months and see, because in many large countries this will be the time span needed to give a jab to a very good part of the population. This could be long enough to convince those who are hesitant.

JDD

is_that_so wrote: »

Well most of us will not be added to vaccination lists till the summer anyway. There is a compelling argument that once we address the high risk categories, much of what we see now will begin to decline, hopefully quickly.

My parents are, at best "wait and see", and at worst, anti-vaxxers. They are in their 70's though and they have both said that they will take the vaccine when it is offered to them, hopefully early next year. While lots of people have an understandable hesitancy about taking the vaccine, many of those in the elderly and vulnerable groups will be happy to take it in order to get some kind of peace of mind and to be able to meet family and friends again.

By the time the vaccine makes it to Joe Punter (me) or indeed to your conspiracy addicted 20-something, there will be vast swathes of people worldwide who will have taken the vaccine. Hopefully the lack of any immediate side effects will encourage those sitting on the fence to go ahead and take the jab.

As is-that-so says, it may be the case that if we get HCWs and elderly/vulnerable vaccinated the hospital numbers will plummet, even as infection numbers rise. If that's the case, perhaps we don't need vaccination induced herd immunity. There will be a very small number of people who are immuno-compromised to the extent that they will be unable to take the vaccine, but I'm not sure where that is a proportionate argument for keeping restrictions.

The only thing I would say to that is yes, we do not know if there are any long term effects from taking a covid vaccine. However, we also don't know whether there are long term effects from catching a mild dose of covid. So that is something that the government would have to weigh up - if lots of healthy people do not take the vaccine, and covid spreads wildly through the community, are we storing up a public health problem in the future? In which case, will the government need to take steps in order to encourage vaccination amongst the healthy population?

is_that_so

Irish Stones wrote: »

A certain doctor Mike Yeadon, former vice-CEO in Pfizer, says that there's no need of a vaccine to fight the pandemic. His opinion is a bit articulate, there are articles on the web and a video too.

Here he is. Can't say I find him convincing as he's banging on about the low infection rate and that somewhat unprovable claim of 30% being immune. Not sure what he thinks "over" means.

https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/health/no-need-for-vaccines-the-covid-pandemic-is-over-says-former-vice-president-of-pfizer

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

I have no idea. I tend not to question personal choices like this because they'll come to a conclusion in their own time. It could be in 3 months,12 months or never.

I don’t mean to be giving out. I don’t feel hugely comfortable with it myself. But when I ask myself what I want to see to get me over the line, I genuinely don’t know. The extent of the trials will have ensured that there will be no immediately and notable problems that might resonate with the population. So there’ll be no additional evidence or data there. So we’re left with the concern around long term effects, and that data won’t be for years.

So either I take it now, or I don’t take it for years, if ever. Although my gut tells me to wait a few months, and see, my head tells me that this is completely nonsense. There will be no additional data in 12 months time than there is now from the trials.

Of course if you have a view that the authorities are lying to us, then certainly you’d want to wait until it gets out int the real world. But I’m not that cynical. And my concern is that antivaxxers will take any illness suffered by a vaccinated person, even if nothing to do with the vaccine, and create a social media anti-van narrative with it. Maybe a vaccinated person gets diagnosed with cancer in 6 months - you bet that antivaxxers will be all over that, and trying to persuade people like you friends to not take it

JDD

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, still don’t understand what they want to see though. No evidence of people dropping dead? The kind of evidence they want I think, will be years in the making

Unless they are genuinely just wanting to see that no one drops dead

I suppose they're looking at the swine flu vaccine and how those instances of narclepsy (which I realise are not proven to be as a result of the vaccine) showed up three or four months after vaccination. If their family and friends get vaccinated, and don't show any side effects, and there's nothing in the media about any side effects, that will probably convince some that sit on the fence.

The rest of the fence sitters thinking will probably go like this "I am not particularly against getting the vaccine, but I have a vague feeling that it has been rushed. I also don't like injections. And it's a pain in the *rse to take time off work and travel to my doctors surgery to get the vaccine. So I will get it, at some point, but I just want to wait a few more months, and find the time to make an appointment. And sure, if I don't get the vaccine, what of it? I'm not in a vulnerable category, I'll be grand if I catch covid".

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t mean to be giving out. I don’t feel hugely comfortable with it myself. But when I ask myself what I want to see to get me over the line, I genuinely don’t know. The extent of the trials will have ensured that there will be no immediately and notable problems that might resonate with the population. So there’ll be no additional evidence or data there. So we’re left with the concern around long term effects, and that data won’t be for years.

So either I take it now, or I don’t take it for years, if ever. Although my gut tells me to wait a few months, and see, my head tells me that this is completely nonsense. There will be no additional data in 12 months time than there is now from the trials.

Of course if you have a view that the authorities are lying to us, then certainly you’d want to wait until it gets out int the real world. But I’m not that cynical. And my concern is that antivaxxers will take any illness suffered by a vaccinated person, even if nothing to do with the vaccine, and create a social media anti-van narrative with it. Maybe a vaccinated person gets diagnosed with cancer in 6 months - you bet that antivaxxers will be all over that, and trying to persuade people like you friends to not take it

I think it is a reasonable concern for people. This is all brand new and not like the regular flu' jabs so worry is not at all surprising. While at risk people might feel like guinea pigs most people will have 3-6 months to watch what's going on. This fear, of course, is not helped by issues with past vaccines.

Even so you do get the sense that pharma are trying to make it all as transparent as they can and eliminating any risks they can. There may well be unexpected side effects but the sizes of the studies should have covered many of them.

ixoy

Deleted User wrote: »

Although my gut tells me to wait a few months, and see, my head tells me that this is completely nonsense. There will be no additional data in 12 months time than there is now from the trials.

This makes sense alright and a lot of people will go with their gut feeling. It really depends on what people think of is a safe time frame - if it's 3-6 months, then by and large it won't be a massive issue. If too many people feel the need to wait years, then it might be.

I'd be also interested to see if the type of vaccine we get will influence people. Will people be more likely to go if it's one of the mRNA vaccines or less likely. Will people care really and just assume they're all the same and a bit rushed?

One thing that is obvious, is that the government should really do a clear campaign on whichever vaccine they choose, with resources to reassure people how the development is not rushed, but expedited.

Deenie78

I've asked a few friends and family if they would take the vaccine and almost all have said they'll "wait and see". Like a few have said here, I'm not sure what they're waiting for but hope that the few months it will take for it to be "their turn" will convince them otherwise.

I myself am all for taking it it as soon as it's available to me, the stress of possibly infecting my parents or those around me is wearing me down!

hmmm

In my opinion there's too much mollycoddling of people who take their health advice from Youtube loolahs. It's clear that the vast majority of us want to move on from the pandemic and do our bit to protect the community. We'll be fine.

Gael23

Moderna now reporting 100% effectiveness

donegal_man

My partner's buddy has told her she'd rather stay working from home and avoiding other people than accept "Bill Gates mercury jab". This I think is one of the unintended consequences of our "work from home, stay at home" strategy, some people have retreated into a bubble where they're getting their information from shared content on Facebook, whatsapp etc.

JimmyVik

donegal_man wrote: »

My partner's buddy has told her she'd rather stay working from home and avoiding other people than accept "Bill Gates mercury jab". This I think is one of the unintended consequences of our "work from home, stay at home" strategy, some people have retreated into a bubble where they're getting their information from shared content on Facebook, whatsapp etc.

I hear Modernas Vaccine is going to be distributed by the Gates foundation. They are going to call it "5G" and have the name of it in big writing on the vials and also on the trucks delivering it.

Cordell

donegal_man wrote: »

My partner's buddy has told her she'd rather stay working from home and avoiding other people than accept "Bill Gates mercury jab". This I think is one of the unintended consequences of our "work from home, stay at home" strategy, some people have retreated into a bubble where they're getting their information from shared content on Facebook, whatsapp etc.

No, it's the consequence of limited education combined with not being endowed with enough rational thinking ability.

Pasteur.

hmmm wrote: »

In my opinion there's too much mollycoddling of people who take their health advice from Youtube loolahs. It's clear that the vast majority of us want to move on from the pandemic and do our bit to protect the community. We'll be fine.

We're going to have incentivise the waitsees and antivaxxers to htfu

Sweet.Science

This may have been asked already

I see the UK plan to roll it out from next week which is obviously great for them

Why are we saying hopefully by January ?

Deeper Blue

Gael23 wrote: »

Moderna now reporting 100% effectiveness

Is that 100% effective at preventing severe disease?

Pasteur.

Sweet.Science wrote: »

This may have been asked already

I see the UK plan to roll it out from next week which is obviously great for them

Why are we saying hopefully by January ?

Cos were Irish and there's no panic

is_that_so

Sweet.Science wrote: »

This may have been asked already

I see the UK plan to roll it out from next week which is obviously great for them

Why are we saying hopefully by January ?

We're getting ours from the EU and early January seems to be their date to start.
UK is Boris bravado and him being desperate for any kind of win. It may not be approved by then.

ACitizenErased

El Sueño wrote: »

Is that 100% effective at preventing severe disease?

yes, that's definitely the most important thing

stephenjmcd

Sweet.Science wrote: »

This may have been asked already

I see the UK plan to roll it out from next week which is obviously great for them

Why are we saying hopefully by January ?

Because they approve their own vaccines now as they aren't part of the EU. EU member states wait for EMA and then distribution from EU commission

funnydoggy

Gael23 wrote: »

Moderna now reporting 100% effectiveness

Where are you seeing this?

EDIT: Seeing it now. Interesting.. I had mixed up Pfizer with Moderna earlier, oops

Irish Stones

funnydoggy wrote: »

Where are you seeing this?

One among many
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/absolutely-remarkable-no-one-who-got-modernas-vaccine-trial-developed-severe-covid-19

EDIT: I see you saw

Gael23

This attitude is why you should need to show proof to leave the
Country or to resume working in an office. Mot make it mandatory but make life exceptionally difficult if you don’t get the vaccine. It’s our only way out of this