COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

stephenjmcd

CruelSummer wrote: »

Has anyone on this thread any links to the vaccine data from Pfizer, Moderna and Astrazenca that isn’t a press release.
My understanding from McConkey last night is they don’t have access to it. Who does and why is it being kept from doctors and scientists to study? Not a good look when you’re trying to convince a hesitant public.

As posted in the main thread,

Do you think the data is given to the EMA & FDA as press release.

We're not going to start administering based on press release.

I'm not sure what's so hard to grasp about this, the people who get the full data first are the regulatory bodies and thats completely proper.

Why would McConkey have access to it ? He's nothing special in terms of being top of the line to get data.

Regulators first.

mean gene

Micky 32 wrote: »

I’m now losing faith after that. I may finally have to accept i’ll never be able to travel abroad to visit family again, depressing stuff.

This is what watching RTE. does to people ,imagine what it's doing to pensioners

Irish Stones

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

A tattoo or microchip would be more practical.

Always a risk of losing documents and getting stuck out foreign

I think that a central database, where one can enter the person's details and get data back, is the best option.
No tattoo or other invasive operations.

Irish Stones

hmmm wrote: »

and avoid the possibility that passengers are obliged to be re-vaccinated.

Wouldn't a re-vaccination be an extra safety?
After all, there are vaccines that can be done several times, even overlapped.

Irish Stones

donegal_man wrote: »

Official stamp on your passport from whomever administered the vaccine or a card similar to passport card.

Passports aren't necessary, most people don't even have one.
And a card or other kind of material certificate might be lost or deteriorated.

hmmm

stephenjmcd wrote: »

We're not going to start administering based on press release.

I'm not sure what's so hard to grasp about this, the people who get the full data first are the regulatory bodies and thats completely proper.

The companies promised to release the data to the public as soon as they had it. Can you imagine what would be being said if they hadn't released anything and all we knew now is that the trials had ended.

"Results must have been terrible"
"They're hiding something"
"Probably fixing the figures with the FDA"
"Can't trust this data, why will they not be open with the public?"

Doc07

For those interested , check website of the European medicines regulator
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en
Lots of real information about Covid-19 vaccines including which ones are currently being reviewed (Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca) some information about how the different types work (eg mRNA, viral vectors) and there will be updates with earliest dates when vaccines may be approved in Europe.

Note this is approval of a vaccine, the actual delivery/vaccination programs follow (very quickly) and are not organised by the regulator

opinionated3

Just watched the fauci video from a few pages back. Thanks to the poster who uploaded it. Such positivity and realism was great to see. I'm steering clear of holohan, mcconkey and their ilk from now on. Feel free to upload any future updates from Dr fauci here going forward! I'll gladly listen to him

CruelSummer

stephenjmcd wrote: »

As posted in the main thread,

Do you think the data is given to the EMA & FDA as press release.

We're not going to start administering based on press release.

I'm not sure what's so hard to grasp about this, the people who get the full data first are the regulatory bodies and thats completely proper.

Why would McConkey have access to it ? He's nothing special in terms of being top of the line to get data.

Regulators first.

Ok I’m not aware of the upcoming procedures. And it is confusing when you’ve McConkey and others making noise about data access.

brisan

daheff wrote: »

German vaccination plans include using the army to do it due to the sheer numbers requiring the vaccine

It'd be interesting to see the roll out plan here

It will be made up as we go along
One thing that can be guaranteed is that we will find unique ways to mess it up

Deenie78

With regards to a vaccine passport or similar - I don't know how exactly it works but the ESTA visa that you get for the US doesn't involve a physical stamp on your passport, all the records are there electronically (I think!). Would something like that work? Like an electronic vaccine record that gets flagged as you enter a country - or is that a bit too big brother-ish???

mightyreds

Can the vaccines prevent getting infection and prevent the person getting it from spreading?

If they dont and only prevent symptoms the cert I imagine would be useless that the country your entering would have to have been vaccinated before opening up

funnydoggy

https://www.thejournal.ie/fifth-vaccine-ireland-sign-up-5284072-Dec2020/

HEALTH MINISTER STEPHEN Donnelly will bring a memo to Cabinet today on Ireland signing up to a fifth Covid-19 vaccine, which is produced by Moderna.

The State had signed up to four vaccines already – AstraZeneca, Jansen, Sanofi and Pfizer.

We're signing up for Moderna folks!

brisan

Deleted User wrote: »

UK have appointed a Minister for Vaccine deployment, mostly a PR move I'd guess, but not a bad idea. It puts a face on who's responsible and might be an added impetus to get things moving.

I would say the Irish government would like a sacrificial lamb but I doubt anybody is stupid enough to take it on
it will be a career civil servant who gets the gig

brisan

hmmm wrote: »

I wasn't filled with confidence by something I read earlier in the month. If they have been working on some of these things for months (particularly with the knowledge of the potential cold storage requirements), shouldn't these names have been available immediately? (genuine question).

"Mr Martin said the taskforce will be chaired by Professor Brian MacCraith of DCU. The Chief Medical Officer will also be on the committee along withMr Reid Reid, chair of the senior officials group on Covid-19 Liz Canavan, Government chief information officer Barry Lowry, Government chief procurement officer Paul Quinn, a yet to be confirmed officials from the Department of Business, along with a logistics cold chain expert and project management expert."

The first meeting of the task force was on the 23rd, and this was published:
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/de326-first-meeting-of-the-high-level-taskforce-on-covid-19-vaccination/

You would think they would be meeting every day and not once a week
I mean it is a national health and economic crisis after all

CIARAN_BOYLE

CruelSummer wrote: »

Ok I’m not aware of the upcoming procedures. And it is confusing when you’ve McConkey and others making noise about data access.

I guess the journalists should stop asking questions about the vaccines then?

If McConkey is asked about a vaccine his response will be that he hasnt been shown data and cant make conclusions.

CIARAN_BOYLE

brisan wrote: »

You would think they would be meeting every day and not once a week
I mean it is a national health and economic crisis after all

Surely they meet. They all go off and do their things then meet again.

Theres work to be done and it cant all be done in a meeting.

brisan

JTMan wrote: »

Sunday Independent reports here and here (paywall):

- Officially speaking the government are saying that vaccinations will start at the end of January but privately those involved expect vaccinations to start at the end of December.
- Supplies are probably going to arrive in December. One insider said what is the point in storing them rather than putting them to immediate use.
- Vaccinations could start 5 days to 1 week after the supplies arrive. The supplies might arrive around 11 December.
- 1.4 million people in Ireland fall under the "vulnerable" category.
- 'People over 80 in nursing homes' might be the first category to get the vaccine.
- Decisions still to be made on mass vaccinations centres. (So slow making these decisions versus other countries).

Use Croke park ,The Aviva ,The IKC exhibition Centre in swords and other big facilities around the country
Drive in get vaccinated and drive out
Small surgeries just slow things up.
Local chemists do a better job than Doctors surgeries with the flu jab
Storage requirements will prevent the surgeries and chemists being involved
Get the army and civil defense involved

brisan

irishgeo wrote: »

Nothing been approved yet and it's the 1st of December next Tuesday. Unless it's approved and shipped by the end of the week they haven't a hope.

its already shipped and waiting for approval

Irish Stones

Micky 32 wrote: »

I’m now losing faith after that. I may finally have to accept i’ll never be able to travel abroad to visit family again, depressing stuff.

This is exactly why I'm living in a deep depression state.
I am totally sure that we will never live as we did before, and any simple change in what my life was will make me feel worse.
Right now I'm not even getting out of home unless to go to work, because life outside is unsettling, and I'm not accepting it.

brisan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

They're not publishing plans because there's a lot out of their control.

If vaccine x gets approved they need the data on how vaccine x does with vulnerable groups.

There is no point publishing a list saying the elderly are getting vaccinated first. Then a week later they get actual data that says efficacy on the elderly is 60% while it's 98% in other groups.

If they then pivot and make another group highest priority (expecting another vaccine to have a better performance in the elderly) did they lie to the public? I'm willing to bet a lot of people would accuse them of it?

They have a lot of plans prepared with contingencies based on data.

What do you base this on ?
They could not protect nursing homes, and hospitals in the second wave even though they knew what to expect

ACitizenErased

Irish Stones wrote: »

This is exactly why I'm living in a deep depression state.
I am totally sure that we will never live as we did before, and any simple change in what my life was will make me feel worse.
Right now I'm not even getting out of home unless to go to work, because life outside is unsettling, and I'm not accepting it.

Well thank Christ you're wrong

brisan

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Good point . As a non scientist my list would be something like this

Care Home nurses and carers
Care Home residents

Frontline staff including all hospital staff and ambulance crews and fire brigade

All vulnerable children and adults with underlying conditions
All Over 70
All over 65
Pharmacists and GP's

Secondary school teachers and SNA
Secondary pupils
National School teachers an d SNA

Those living with immuno compromised and very vulnerable
National school children

rest of population

So you would give it to a heathy 12 yr old before a 64 yr old

Irish Stones

wes wrote: »

The vaccine is what will enable us to get back to normal. The rollout to get to herd immunity will take a while. I reckon this time next year, we should have pretty much all restrictions lifted.

The big question is how fast can we get people vaccinate to achieve herd immunity.

I wonder how you all can be so positive about this.
All I know is that nothing will be the same. I just can't get this out of my mind.
In many countries, where the population is several tens millions people, it will take years to distribute the vaccine to a good part of people. One year could not be enough.

ACitizenErased

Breaking news just now: Pfizer and Biontech have today applied to the European Medicines Agency for conditional marketing authorisation (EUA).

Irish Stones

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Well thank Christ you're wrong

And how do you know you're right?

ACitizenErased

Irish Stones wrote: »

And how do you know you're right?

Because I've read about the 1920s. We'll be back to normal next year.

Billgirlylegs

Irish Stones wrote: »

This is exactly why I'm living in a deep depression state.
I am totally sure that we will never live as we did before, and any simple change in what my life was will make me feel worse.
Right now I'm not even getting out of home unless to go to work, because life outside is unsettling, and I'm not accepting it.

My sincere sympathies.
I know a couple of people who are similarly afflicted.
It's tough.

Maybe avoid discussing Covid.
All you will hear are opinions.

Hope it improves for you

stephenjmcd

funnydoggy wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/fifth-vaccine-ireland-sign-up-5284072-Dec2020/


[/B]
We're signing up for Moderna folks!

Would have been a done deal anyway seeing as we're in with the EU, we'll ratify whatever deals they agree

brisan

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That Sunday Times article posted a few pages back boils my blood.
Why the **** are we waiting a few days before starting vaccinations?

It literally takes 3-4 hours max from Dublin to anywhere in the country - they could start same day ffs

Paperwork and John from the Dept that looks after the paperwork is on annual leave

brisan

JTMan wrote: »

David McRedmond (CEO of An Post) has called for a "sense of urgency" in vaccine distribution in Ireland like there is in the UK. He is correct, we need to hear urgency and a push for speed in the voices of politicians and the HSE. This has to happen quickly to save lives.

Meanwhile, Dr Adrian Hill one of the leaders of the Oxford Vaccine has said vaccine rollout should see normality return “late-Spring /early-Summer”. A separate report in the UK yesterday said that normality would resume around 4 April 2021 (Easter) in the UK. In the US, those in charge of vaccine distribution say normality will resume in May 2021.

https://twitter.com/DavidMcredmond/status/1333005304494252034

What would NPHET do if all the people are vaccinated
I can almost guarantee that we will be one of the last countries in Europe to be fully vaccinated

Micky 32

Irish Stones wrote: »

This is exactly why I'm living in a deep depression state.
I am totally sure that we will never live as we did before, and any simple change in what my life was will make me feel worse.
Right now I'm not even getting out of home unless to go to work, because life outside is unsettling, and I'm not accepting it.

Thankfully in my case they are only little slips i go into that are rare ( 99% of the time i’m positive), it’s because of morons like McConkey and some posters on these forums who constantly like to peddle doom and gloom etc.

A couple of posters replied to my post and i’m confident they are right.

Pasteur.

brisan wrote: »

Get the army and civil defense involved

And do what

CIARAN_BOYLE

brisan wrote: »

What do you base this on ?
They could not protect nursing homes, and hospitals in the second wave even though they knew what to expect

I base it on common sense. I think the British are silly for publishing their plans when they haven't got any clue

Cheap sound bites thrown out here by you. What do you base the idea that they could have protected nursing homes and hospitals significantly better?

Do you think nursing homes could have told their staff to move out of their homes and into a hotel where they wouldn't be allowed leave except for work? Do you think nursing homes could have banned 100% of visits including compassionate visits in end of life cases?

That's what protecting nursing homes mean.

funnydoggy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Would have been a done deal anyway seeing as we're in with the EU, we'll ratify whatever deals they agree

Of course! Just great to see it

ACitizenErased

Media catching on now:
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1333725484702715908?s=20

funnydoggy

Micky 32 wrote: »

Thankfully in my case they are only little slips i go into that are rare ( 99% of the time i’m positive), it’s because of morons like McConkey and some posters on these forums who constantly like to peddle doom and gloom etc.

A couple of posters replied to my post and i’m confident they are right.

Many of these doom peddlers just love the sound of their own voice. Misery loves company.


Society is coming back in 2021.

funnydoggy

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Media catching on now:
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1333725484702715908?s=20

When Oxford goes for it, I'd imagine RTÉ would say something like:


"Vaccine distributor seeking emergency approval amid controversy surrounding its effectiveness"

brisan

Hardyn wrote: »

I seen that Stephen Donnelly said on Newstalk that he does not expect vaccinations to start until early in the new year.

Pretty much every other country I've seen expects to begin before the end of the year. What's the delay?

John from the Dept of vaccinations is on extended Christmas leave

funnydoggy

brisan wrote: »

John from the Dept of vaccinations is on extended Christmas leave

They'll probably announce temporarily staff positions for vaccine rollout on publicjobs.ie in the coming months :pac: :P :pac: :P :pac:

Russman

Michael up in purchasing told them to wait til the January sales to get the freezers cheaper............:D

Actually, joking aside, its great that there's an application gone in to the EMA.
Do they typically take long to review or is their process similar to the FDA ? I think I saw that the FDA are scheduled to meet on 10th (re Pfizer) and on 17th (re Moderna). Could we realistically expect pre Christmas approval in Europe ?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Hardyn wrote: »

I seen that Stephen Donnelly said on Newstalk that he does not expect vaccinations to start until early in the new year.

Pretty much every other country I've seen expects to begin before the end of the year. What's the delay?

Nothings been approved yet. I think a lot of people expecting vaccines rolled out are being premature.

Van.Bosch

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Media catching on now:
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1333725484702715908?s=20

What is timeframe for EU approval - if they are going to take a few weeks, Donnelly’s January date might make sense.

Van.Bosch

I wonder will we start getting daily stats in vaccines?

Will be interesting to see that we had 300 cases today and 4,200 vaccinated bringing the total vaccinated to 100,000 or 1% of population.

funnydoggy

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I wonder will we start getting daily stats in vaccines?

Will be interesting to see that we had 300 cases today and 4,200 vaccinated bringing the total vaccinated to 100,000 or 1% of population.

Would be great. I hope they do this in the interests of transparency:)

XsApollo

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I wonder will we start getting daily stats in vaccines?

Will be interesting to see that we had 300 cases today and 4,200 vaccinated bringing the total vaccinated to 100,000 or 1% of population.

Don’t give them anything else to do I can imagine people not getting vaccinated because resources are being siphoned off to make more slides.

odyssey06

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I wonder will we start getting daily stats in vaccines?

Will be interesting to see that we had 300 cases today and 4,200 vaccinated bringing the total vaccinated to 100,000 or 1% of population.

Or reported as 99% of the population yet to be vaccinated

Van.Bosch

Van.Bosch wrote: »

What is timeframe for EU approval - if they are going to take a few weeks, Donnelly’s January date might make sense.

To answer my own question, EMA have set a deadline of Dec 29th, at the latest.

donegal_man

Was talking to my GP this morning and he is quite cautiously optimistic about the vaccine role out. He reckons realistically we are looking at six months for the population to be vaccinated followed by a four to six month period of slowly easing restrictions and public being wary of whether it has been effective or not so be this time next year before we see a return to what he called relative normality.

donegal_man

donegal_man wrote: »

Was talking to my GP this morning and he is quite cautiously optimistic about the vaccine role out. He reckons realistically we are looking at six months for the population to be vaccinated followed by a four to six month period of slowly easing restrictions and public being wary of whether it has been effective or not so be this time next year before we see a return to what he called relative normality.

Good post. I agree with timeline.